Hi, this is my first post and any comments/help are appreciated.
My wife asked me to separate while on a trip to celebrate our 4th anniversary.
I was amazed to pick up DR and see almost exact quotes of her motivations for giving up on our marriage. "I don't hate you, I just don't love you" is in her top 3.
DR has been very helpful but I have a major problem. My wife is a big, big, BIG supporter of the law of attraction. She's been unemployed for almost a year and has focussed all of her energies in finding answers through this belief. She has shown signs of depression and that has made her even more vulnerable to this. (I even think law of attraction has played a major role in her depression because she sets herself incredible high expectations that are never met).
My problem is that she's trying to explain this whole thing from the perspective of the Law of Attraction and how this is a step towards happiness, etc and hundreds (yes, hundreds) of online friends are supporting her in this decision.
I feel so powerless.
I would do anything so she could just take sometime and see all of these with a clear mind. No LoA, no divorced girlfriends coaching her, etc. I just want us to make an informed decision.
So at one point I thought of sharing Divorce Remedy with her and just ask her to read the first 2 chapters in the hope that she could at least open the possibility that this crisis could be caused by many factors. (obviously I will assume full responsability for my part)
We're due to meet in 1 week (her choice) to discuss what's going to happen.
I don't have many high hopes as she's been bubbly and upbeat about her new found life and her facebook friends obviously, celebrate this.
And I'm just trying to find the strength to go through this.
Any help, is welcome. Is asking her to read the book a good idea?
I appreciate your help. I would call a divorce busting coach but I really can't afford it right now as I had to move and it was really expensive.
Pls, anybody out there?
Jav,
I do NOT think its a good idea to share the DB book with your wife. Since she is asking to leave, it would only cause her to dig her heals in even more. Keep the book to yourself. In addition to Divorce Remedy, I recommend you read LOVE MUST BE TOUGH by Dr. James Dobson. Its important that you control your emotions right now. Don't let the panic take over. Once you read DR and LMBT you will understand.
mrbt
Jav,
First of all breathe. Calm down. I hate to tell you this, but there will be no quick solutions. DO NOT share DR...that is your playbook, don't give it to the other team. I am not a vet but others will chime in. She has her FB support, you get your support here. You are going to need it. Don't give up, have hope, follow the advice, learn from your mistakes, and start preparing yourself now, mentally/emotionally/physically for a long, tough rollercoaster ride.
The experts will need some more information. How were things before, have you or her been unhappy, how has communication been, could there be OM in the mix?
Read about the WAW...it is a short article here at DB and it will be enlightening.
Find Sandi's 30+ rules on how to deal with WAW...this is critical at early stages. You have a chance to not make a bunch of the mistakes most of us have made by coming here early. It will seem counter intuitive...it is...but at this point it has to be your guide and you have to trust those that have gone thru this before you.
Read up on other threads...you will be amazed at the similarities.
It is painful, we are all either in pain or have suffered thru the same thing.
These boards can be your life savers and are great sounding boards.
Time to be strong, figure out and CHANGE what you have done wrong...and it won't happen overnight. Your W didn't decide to leave overnight, even though it might seem that way right now.
There are a ton of great people that will be here for you
Sandi just posted this to someone else...she is one of the vets here. This is a good place for you to start...she knows what she is talking about!
----------------------------
Your W wants to escape from you and the M. The best thing you can do is to back away and do nothing to pursue her. EVERYTHING you say or do will seem like some form of unhappiness to her. Even saying ILY is pressure to her. There are a lot of things that you should do or not do that could help your stitch. I'm sending a list that I hope will be of help.
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore!
2. No frequent phone calls to him/her.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to him/her through
conversation.....say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, etc.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention. (Remember, you are drawing him/her back with this technique.)
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.)
8. Do not buy gifts. (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together. (That is pursuing.)
10.Do not spy on spouse. (Not good for you and will make
matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make him/her say it too......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act as if you are moving on with your life!
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times!
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do
things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the
conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be scarce or short on words. If he/she asks what's wrong....just
say "nothing". Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an
argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home!
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!)
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around, somebody that is attractive and fun.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let him/her trap you into a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how he/she feels (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.)
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give him/her space and time.
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil)
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.
30.Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
mrbt & gutwrenching,
Thank so much for your kind replies. I never thought someone would reply so soon.
I immensely appreciate that as it has been a long, difficult week.
Here's a bit of backgroung (sorry if too long)
Us:
We've been together as a couple for 12 years. We're both 31 now.
We lived together for 3.5 years first, then married 4 years ago.
How were things before:
The marriage has been quite a journey. Literally. We married and decided to move to the Europe. Things were hard for both of us, trying to get used to change, etc. but even if things were tough in the beginning (I couldn't get a job here for 2.5 years, she always was supportive and understanding of this). The relationship as a couple became incredibly strong. I have a letter she wrote for our 2nd Anniversary that makes me weep every time y read it where she acknowledges what an amazing person and husband I became.
To me she's been an amazing woman, I would not change a single day of my life with her for anyting in the world. She is intelligent, sensitive, considered and it never ceases to amaze me how well we fit. How we complete each other.
Then, the recession hit. And she lost her job in Oct 2008. Just one day after her bday she was notified. The timing couldn't be worst. I had found a temp job at the company of my dreams but was soon told they couldn't afford to keep me.
In march 2009, we were about to drop the towel and go back to our country. An idea that she panicked about, she'd beg and cry but I had to be sensible. I was offered a well paid job there and life would be cheaper.
Finally, out of pure desperation and trying to do what was best for both of us, I made one last attempt and was incredibly lucky that my work caught the attention of the same company I had been temping with. It was quite a struggle but they took me in as a freelancer WHEN EVERYBODY ELSE WAS LAYING OFF PEOPLE. It wasn't much money but it enabled us to stay in Europe and not eat up or savings. She appreciated this immensely.
Though, this crisis passed the check on both of us. I'm certain that by that time the winter blues and her unemployed status and mild problems we had in our marriage (the only serious one i can think of was intimacy) got her into depression.
My biggest mistake was throwing myself at work because I was on monthly or even weekly contracts so I couldn't afford to lose a beat. That'd mean no money.
The problem was she started looking for answers for her depression on the Law of Attraction. And she really committed herself to that, to the point where she didn't want even to look for a job anymore and wanted to change careers. Someone at her LoA FB group told her she could be a life coach. She committed 100% to this and this was the beginning of the nightmare.
I asked her to go easy on that. She wouldn't leave the house and spend all day in FB discussing the LoA. Things got weirder and weirder as she started to talk about talking with "entities" and living every single second of her life with LoA in mind. She changed her tastes, wouldn't like what she used to like, etc.
I talked with her. She told me she wanted me to be supportive of this the way she's been with me, specially when she had to support myself (she was the most loving and supportive person ever). I agreed but said even if I agreed on the LoA principles I couldn't participate on the canalizing "entities", etc. but I'd trust her if she wanted to do that with her time.
I worked incredibly long hours, weekends, etc and was under so much pressure for most part of last year. I apologised. She told me she understood and was grateful for having me 2.5 years for herself and that now it was my turn to do the legwork. I felt grateful for that.
Intimacy problem:
We started developing an intimacy problem. She was very demanding and I couldn't meet her levels of expectation. It was when I was unemployed and I felt so bad about myself and was so depressed. I felt as if I didn't deserve anything. Then the few times I'd approach her, she made me feel I always fell short. So I shut off. Was terrified even to approach her, and scared of she approaching me. She mention sex therapy, I told her I wanted to work on my own first. Then she started putting more and more pressure on the issue warning me she'd find other alternatives, sex toys, etc to satisfy herself. I felt really bad to told I was going to be replaced with an object.
The first BOMB: Sept 2009
One day we were walking to the supermarket and I told her I loved her. She wouldn't reply and I asked her why? And she told me with an almost cynical smile, "I just don't know if I love you anymore". I though she was joking but nope, she was so cold about it that she brought me to tears in the middle of the street.
She blamed it on my for asking such a question in such an inconvenient time.
We discussed long, I couldn't stop crying. She had been plotting all this for months. I was in so much pain and she was being so nasty (i'd cry while watching tv and she'd tell me I was ruining her fav programme). I wanted to move out but in the end she wouldn't let me. She cried. In the end, we agreed she was confused and we had to make some changes and gave a 6 month period to work on that.
The first 6 months:
I tried with all my heart to work on this. I still was the only one responsible for the household income so I had to keep working hard. Still I started doing many things like leaving notes around the house, flowers, surprising her from time to time, etc I'd take care of the house issues (one of her requests), arrange for builders to carry on work, etc She asked me she wanted to feel secure and taken care off so when I finally got hired I fought to get her on my health and dent plan, etc
She wanted to go visit a friend in Asia, LoA friend she met online. It was a really hard thing to do but I not only allowed it but convinced her to go in a direct fly, spend more time that was already intending to spend there, etc.
I was really working on this, then I had a problem with my wisdom tooth in late November, just when she got back from the trip. By law I was required to have someone to take care of me during this thing. I asked her and she accepted.
My wisdom tooth problem was really bad, I missed two weeks work and carried on feeling bad until right before christmas. That screwed my plans of keep on working on the marriage as I was doing. The we had her sister visiting for christmas so the whole december couldn't do much work.
January I thought, would be a great chance to keep working. I worked on the intimacy issue. And read articles, went to see the doctor, etc
By now, it had been 2 years since last time we could afford going home. My wife's mom lives on her own and she really wanted to go and be with her. I got a Xmas bonus at work, it was very generous as I've been working so hard so I told her I was happy to pay for that trip with that. Since she was unemployed she asked me if she could go ahead and I encouraged her so she left end of Jan.
I thought things were going great. I had been supportive, etc with February being our anniversary I thought our trip was going to be the perfect setting to change gears and take the changes to another level. I was so excited, I prepared romantic dinners, serenade, a trip to a couple only hotel, had made a video of our pictures together, etc. Was ready and motivated to be intimate again.
On the day she flew home, she got offered a job and we got so happy and started making plans. FINALLY AFTER 4 YEARS, life was going to get REALLY GOOD.
Bomb Feb 2010
She barely stayed in touch with me while she was back home. I tried to understand. She was busy with her mom and visiting friends. Strangely, I thought mom was going to be her priority but in the end she was really just visiting old friends she had contacted on facebook.
Finally, I flew home to meet her. It was the worst flight ever. A terrorist alert made us fly back when we were already half way through the Atlantic. It was incredibly stressful so I landed 6 hours late, stressed, not having slept in days, etc
I think she was misleaded by my emotional state and later she'd say that only thing we did was argue as soon as I landed. She knew how hard the flight had been for me.
Two days after that, I was at my parents and I called her. No I love yous anymore so I asked her, what's up? And she said I always picked the worst moments to discuss this things, she wanted to talk later about that.
We did. And she dropped the bomb again. This time she was done. Not a chance of going to couples therapy, she just wanted out, she wanted me to move or she'd move as soon as we get back, she wouldn't even want to be on the same plane as me.
I was petrified. I even ended up in the hospital because I thought i was having a heart attack after the plane, now this, things with my family weren't ok, etc
I called her to let her know that the doctor's were worried about my blood pressure. She was cold and distant about this. Probably thought I was asking for pity. I wasn't.
She agreed to meet me at a therapist office I found while on holiday to get some support because I was in a really bad shape, after all I had reservations, plans, etc for this and I had to cancel all that and bear the questions from family and friends about my wife's whereabouts.
So in front of the therapist she was as cold hearted as she had been saying "She was too much woman for me" "She doesn't hate me, she just doesn't love me" "She had wasted her youth on me", etc "I'm seconds away from being unfaithful to you"
The best I could get out of her was that she was confused and needed time to process how she felt. I asked her to realise that she was on holiday, and wasn't a good time or place to make decisions about real life.
Little did I know that she had been in touch with divorced friends who had been coaching through all this. She even spoke with some of her friends accents and used their words while talking to me.
What happened next?
I agreed to her demands. I told her, I CAN take control of things and I'd give her space and the time she had asked for. We agreed it was best if I moved as we were supposed to some of her friends visiting and It'd be easier if she accommodate them at our place. She'd stay there for one more week because she didn't even want to share the flight with me and wanted me to have moved by the time she returned.
I stopped the crying, and I tried to pull myself together and not beg or ask for anything. Silence.
What happened next?
Easier said than done.
These have been the most difficult weeks of my life.
My flight back was a nightmare, and I was starting to have suicidal thoughts.
Luckily the therapist i used back home agreed to give me some support through the phone.
Things at work were busier than usual and I only had one week to get a new place. It was soooooooooooo difficult but I pulled it together.
I cleaned the old place, bough groceries for her and leaved the keys and a letter, not love one but one saying I'd be there if she needed any help and I wanted to give her space.
Last two weeks I've been working on myself, going to the gym, things are going great at work, etc but is really hard sometimes specially when I know she's been coached by FB friends and divorcee friends that are cheering her up.
All she speaks about on her facebook is about her new found freedom. It makes me feel as if i was some type of cancer she got rid of.
I've contacted her by phone twice about some minor banking things and got her usual cold response.
The only positive note i had is I sent her a txt message on her first day at work saying "Good luck on the new job!" She replied "Thank you :)" The smiley meant a lot.
Im meeting her in one week as its the end of the month we agreed.
I have a plan but Im going back and forth about it.
Should I discuss our marriage or not?
Again sorry if its too long.
move back home, if she wants to separate, she can find a place,
first action item for you.
Can't do that. Had to rent this place for at least 3 months.
And that'd push her out of the house. Not fair.
btw, I had to change my name due to privacy. Not mine, hers.
A few more notes:
The only reason I was considering giving her the book was a good idea is because Michele takes a really objective look in the first 2 chapters. She explains with stats, talks about the WAW, well meaning friends and relationship IQ.
I have some hope that the intelligent woman I fell in love with, would be interested in finding out what's exactly happening to us, opening the possibility that this might be a phase, etc.
The least we deserve is to make an informed decision. If any of us had pain in one of our arms, you wouldn't say, ok it's being hurting for too long now, I'm just going to chop it off. You'd find a doctor and listen to him first, wouldn't you?
Again, any opinions, answers most appreciated.
I feel very lonely because I don't have any friends in here
that are not common friends.
I can't even talk to them right now.
Also, the only reason I agreed to move out was because it was important to her to feel that I had listened to her. And also, I thought that that would push her into her "start life brand new" spirit. I wanted her to deal with reality since she made that decision while on holiday. I wanted her to come back to an empty house. It had to be part of the process for her.
Are you seriously suggesting that after this month I go back no matter what she asks for?
hey, I am no expert, but from what I read on here, yes.. You need to move back in.
You are not the one who wants this. If she wants a better life for herself, she must move out.
Everyone here will tell you the same.
What you are going through, I am also.
Its very difficult, and we will never understand. I was told repeatedly to "drop the rope" Detach detach detach..
Tougher than it sounds, but I can see that the pain slowly goes down.
Do things for you. ie: gym, workout, go out with friends ( make new ones with ladies) you dont have to sleep with them. I did read here that what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
Take control of your emotions and dont worry about what she is doing.
As in my sitch, you and I have lost her already.. Go with that.
"As in my sitch, you and I have lost her already.. Go with that"
I'm not ready to accept this, sorry.
Any other opinions on whether I should move back in?
I committed to rent this place for 3 months. That'd put me in financial hiccups.
Btw, the place where I moved to it's a much better place than the old one to be honest. It had helped me GAL.
Stay where you are then. It isn't going to make a bit of difference whether you reconcile or not regarding who moves out. You already moved out and admit it is a better place and has helped you. You would be just as well off to let her see that you just LOVE your new place and are doing quite well.
Thanks, Gucci.
So tomorrow is a big day. We'll have a phone call, she wants to arrange for us to talk in one week since it's the 1 month period she asked for to think things through.
Right know I'm trying to think what should be my expectations for this meeting. Last time we met was a monologue. Hers.
I'm putting together a "plan" for the day. here's the outline.
I intend to be calm and assertive at all times. (trying to get the strength for that). New haircut, new clothes. I want to feel.
1. Let her speak first. Ask her how she's doing, what has she been thinking, etc I will acknowledge everything and tell her I understand her reasons and that I also been thinking that this had to change.
2. Depending on how receptive she is. I was planning to share with her my side of the story because right know she thinks I never put any work into this on the last 6 months. I won't be defensive but I do think she deserves to know the truth and how committed I've been to make it change. Because I again, I did want things to change. We both wanted the same. Change. Only for me it's possible within the relationship and for her it isn't.
3. I'll tell her, I understand she's confused and she's looking for answers and I can understand she needed that time and can even understand if she needs more. My only request to her would be to be willing to look for answers beyond the places where she's been trying to find them. Many people go through this, It's surely worth learning from them whether it is on books, articles, etc. If your arm hurts, you go to the doctor and asks his opinion, you don't ask him to chop it off right away. Let's be sensible.
If I see she's not receptive to anything, I'd go directly to step 3.
I'm thinking to persuade her to come to my place as this would be a big testament to how I was able to GAL in such a short time, I cook for myself, clean, etc And did NOT end up on a dump like she's probably thinking.
And it's not a phoney move, I've reconnected with my old me so much in these last few weeks (gym, cooking for myself, playing guitar, watching films, doing walks, etc). TAKING CARE OF ME.
I've loved that part of this as painful as it's been.
On a positive note here, she has offered me not to divorce me oficially as my VISA depends on us to stay married and she doesn't want to affect me. ( in her opinion she's been very thoughtful during this whole thing). So no matter what, I won't be getting divorced officially which at least gives some hope.
Opinions, suggestions?
Jav,
Read about the WAW...it is a short article here at DB and it will be enlightening.
Exactly, so mmm any chance it would be enlightening to her?
Listen to robx...look up his advice he's given others, he knows what he is talking about. SHE is choosing to end things, so SHE can move out. You are choosing to work on things, so you stay. Move back now. The money on the other place is gone no matter what, so it is irrelevant.
Well, since you asked for opinions. I usually have one and here it is...
My observations and experience in helping people in your situations in the past twenty plus years tells me yet again that your wife is more than likely interested in someone else.
My experience and observations has also shown me that the person in your position instantly puts up a wall and does everything in their power to prove to me that their spouse is not having an affair. Such as... "I asked her and she denied it".."I know her and she would never do that"... etc etc....
So, with that being said.. It makes it difficult to give you advice that would work since you have the wrong diagnosis for the patient. You are thinking that "if" you change for the better that the disease will heal. I believe that you have misdiagnosed the disease. The disease is the affair.
So, to answer your own analogy about going to a doctor when you have a pain in your arm instead of just cutting the arm off isn't the right diagnosis. The pain in the arm could be signs of a stroke.(the affair) She may be telling you she has a pain in her arm, and be lying. Maybe she has no pain at all. Maybe she has a pain in her leg. You are trying to tell her what her pain is. She is telling you she doesn't have any pain and yet you are not listening to her. You are basically saying that you know better and that you still want her to go to the doctor to have him check her arm. That won't work. She will only fight harder to defend her position that she doesn't have any pain...
EITHER person can move out.
Don't get caught up in this nonsense of you "having" to move home to prove some kind of point. It is not necessary. You are already moved out and happy and like it better. Stay put. You have UPGRADED. That is always attractive.
thanks for both replies guys.
I listen and value your opinions.
I can understand if she has an Emotional Affair but definitely not a physical one. 100% sure on that. She has really, really, REALLY high morals when it comes to lying. I hope you can trust me on this one.
I asked her if she wanted to see other people. With tears in her eyes she replied she didn't. I don't know how to take this then.
The other thing I need to ask is, should I then ask the painful question next saturday?
"Is there someone else?"
Should I then assume there is already? Isn't one of the principles of DR "Act as if" ?
Again, just looking for answers, not defending my point of view.
I can understand if she has an Emotional Affair but definitely not a physical one. 100% sure on that. She has really, really, REALLY high morals when it comes to lying. I hope you can trust me on this one.
Yep. I thought that is what you might say. Sorry to say that I don't trust you on this, but it is your life and I know you really think you know. I really can't help you because I believe I am right and you are wrong. No biggie. I would have hoped you could have trusted me on this one. My diagnosis is not the one you have. Seems to me that even though she has most all of the symptoms of cancer you seem to think she has heartburn and you insist that rolaids will be the cure. I highly doubt that is the case.
Frac - why not listen to what gucci has to say?...I happen to agree with him!
Breaking news.
She IS having an affair. Emotional one though I don't know how physical it has been as she met the guy when we were on holiday. He's an old boy friend from high school.
He is not here. He's miles and miles away and they only talk on the web.
I trust you. Just confirmed it.
Frac - why not listen to what gucci has to say?...I happen to agree with him!
I am, sorry it came as a shock but I've just confirmed it.
He's an old friend from high school. He is married and also telling his wife she wants out.
Pls don't get upset man. Pls put yourself in my shoes.
I was in denial but just confirmed it, I feel shocked and terrified.
I need help, pls, don't walk away now. I'll shut up and listen, pls.
The other thing I need to ask is, should I then ask the painful question next saturday?
"Is there someone else?"
Nope. Don't ask. Waste of time...
Should I then assume there is already? Isn't one of the principles of DR "Act as if" ?
Don't take "Act as if" out of context. If you KNEW she was having an affair do you think that you should "act as if" she isn't having one?
I think you need to assume that her having an affair is a solid definite possiblity. Yes. Why? BECAUSE the symptoms are there that she is. Not wanting to work on the relationship is a huge red flag. If there was NOT someone else on her mind, then she would be willing to give it a try. After all, you have given her flowers, been romantic, told her you love her, made changes you thought she wanted, etc. etc... It doesn't make sense for her not to at least try UNLESS you factor in that there is someone else. It then makes total sense why she doesn't want to try. Same as you don't want to try to have a
relationship with some woman who you have no feelings for. Even if a woman told you she wanted you right now and would do anything you wanted to be with you. You would be telling her you just are not interested. Why? Because of YOUR interest in your wife. THAT is the key here in what is going on in her mind beneath the surface that she isn't going to divulge to you. She is just going to keep telling you it is too late and she needs her space and yada yaday yada.
She is just going to keep telling you it is too late and she needs her space and yada yaday yada.
Then what should I do now that I've just confirmed it? Pretend that it didn't happen? just that? pretend?!!! I shouldn't ask her and let her think I'm just buying the other stuff?
Woops.. I wrote my last post before I saw that you confirmed the affair. I am sorry for you. I know it hurts.
We do now have the correct diagnosis though. Now you can treat this with the correct medication.
For now, take this all in and try to seek balance from this initial shock. Please don't contact her while you are in this frame of mind. Others will pick you up on this site. Do nothing for the time being.
Do nothing for the time being.
We're supposed to talk on the phone tomorrow to arrange for us to meet next week!!!! Should I cancel that? Man... I need to re read DR.
I feel terrible right now. Sorry.
I'm really ashamed to admit how i found out about the afair.
I panicked after your post and went through her emails.
I feel sorry I had to do that but I had to know.
You have a RIGHT to know. It is ok and the right thing to do.
The TRUTH of what is going on is a must. Yes, it hurts to the core and I understand that.
I know you are supposed to meet tomorrow. The problem is that this is so fresh in your mind that it will be very very difficult for you to not make numerous mistakes at the meeting.
One of the things that I have seen work to end affairs in the past is for the betrayed spouse to expose the affair. By exposing, I mean exposing it to HIS wife. He is more than likely lying to his wife AND to your wife. He may be telling your wife he is leaving his wife. That is normal for a married man to tell his affair partner. Your wife probably believes that. If you expose it to his wife you could blow this affair out of the water. If he is lying to your wife, and his wife finds out, he may very well drop your wife like a hot potato. She would then probably give your relationship another chance. I have seen that happen many times. I think it is worth the risk. If he is going to leave his wife, then you have lost nothing anyway right?
Apparently this guy was telling his wife about the affair right away.
And also, i wouldn't know who her wife is, this guy is only on FB to me.
Ok, here's an update.
She IS having an affair with him on the internet. The guy is married and is running away from a terrible marriage. She's promised my wife, he is leaving his.
I learn this through a friend in common.
My wife is starting to miss me and feels alone because she can't talk to this guy about the things she can talk to me about. She is NOT in love. She says she is taking care of herself first. She misses me sometimes. And the guy is dealing with such dark things in his marriage that some times is too hard for her to keep up with.
She intends that next saturday would be the FINAL talk with me. When she tells me everything and ends the marriage.
Ok, That's an update. Pls I do need some opinions, pls.
I'm falling apart.
I know you are supposed to meet tomorrow. The problem is that this is so fresh in your mind that it will be very very difficult for you to not make numerous mistakes at the meeting.
Not tomorrow, in one week. She plans to tell me it's over definitely.
Do nothing for the time being.
We're supposed to talk on the phone tomorrow to arrange for us to meet next week!!!! Should I cancel that? Man... I need to re read DR.
I feel terrible right now. Sorry.
blow her off. and do something alot more fun then reading divorce busting. maybe watch a movie about coral reefs. take notice of how many fish are in the sea.
Where did you get the information that his wife knows?
Do NOT believe that. Repeat.. Do NOT believe that statement.
Believe it or not.. Men in affairs actually lie to both the wife AND the OW....
I think you need to find out how you can contact his wife and blow this out of the water. If she already knows, you need to hear that from HER.
Should I move the date then? If she's starting to miss me? Should i let her miss me more and see that this guy is a wrong idea? Stay in the dark?
I didn't say his wife knows. I just said I can't be sure if she knows or have any contact with her o know who she is.
Im just telling you that he said to her that he was letting her wife know.
Also, it's worth noticing that her best friend followed the same pattern 4 years ago.
She divorced badly, started a relationship with a married man and now 4 years after that she's leaving the country cos she can't get over the fact that the guy neer left the wife and he is expecting a second baby with the wife.
Believe it or not.. Men in affairs actually lie to both the wife AND the OW....
Believe this readers. coming up with the lies and the stories on the drive home is all part of the game...
How can I tell her that then? That the guy is surely lying to her too.
I don't know who this wife is!
Sorry, Im also really confused. Should I tell her I know? should I ask her ?
She's saying to this friend she's starting to miss me but she's still hurt.
The friend says other people have been advicing her to remember all the negative stuff when she misses me.
Sorry to be so pushy but I need some answers, I am supposed to confirm next week meeting tomorrow. She is really taking that as a final chat.
why tell her anything. why even bother talking to your wife. if you are convinced she is screwing around and that next week she was going to dump you why give her the satisfaction? would you cry in front of her? tell her to f off and storm away? or laugh in her face?
despite what alot of people say on this site, its not about her. ITS ABOUT YOU!. and despite the pain and the heartache you might be feeling now, YOU WILL GET OVER IT. the sooner the better. the sooner the better.
think about the coral reef analogy. some fish are pretty. some are even prettier. some are blue. others red. some are good to eat on a friday night. some bite and others bony. whens the last time you had some tuna?
I think you know everything there is to talk about. what more is there to learn? why bother putting yourself through it? why even think about it? spend all night toss and turning and hitting on a bottle of jack? ill.
there are alot of fun things to do on a friday night! find some friends to take you out. if you were your wife and she just found out and called her friends, i wouldn't doubt they be yelling, 'dump that loser lets go out and find you a new guy' and she would be out having a good time, excellent time forgetting all about you.
or you can pine away on this site for months and not get on with your life or even get to a point to where you can effectively start working on putting your relationship back together.
if you were your wife and she just found out and called her friends, i wouldn't doubt they be yelling, 'dump that loser lets go out and find you a new guy'
Appreciate your thoughs, Steve but you see I'm not my wife.
I am currently revaluating if I do want to fight for my marriage after this.
I think I do. Maybe I change my mind later but I also need to acknowledge that I made mistakes that confused her and pushed them to that unfortunate decision. That's my share and I accept that.
I'm re-reading DR on the Infidelity chapter.
Hopefully I can get help from a vet or someone who has more constructive feedback but again, I do appreciate your thoughts.
Fracesc,
When will you see w next?
Greek
When you do meet with her, you say "W, I know about OM. I will not be part of an open marriage. You will either commit to working on our M and that will mean no contact with him. I will expect you to verify that with open cell phone and email accounts. If you will not agree to to no contact and to work on our M, I will begin interviewing lawyers tomorrow."
Until you do meet to have this discussion, disclose nothing to her. In fact, you should make yourself very hard to get in touch with until the meeting. Go dark.
Expose the EA to the OM's W. She needs to know. And when she beats him over the head with it, your W will be so yesterday. He will drop her.
Greek
Greek
Can't do that. Had to rent this place for at least 3 months.
And that'd push her out of the house. Not fair.
You can do that,
you're just making excuses and seriously, moving out is the worst thing to do when you have a WAW, let her make those actions & decisions, you don't have to, who told you to?
So you pay rent for 3 months at this place, ditch it, no worries, no excuses.
And you're worried about what's fair with pushing your wife out? You're not pushing her out, you don't get it, she's choosing to leave, you have nothing to do with it, it's ok, it's not your problem.
Hi Greek. We separated almost a month ago. At the time she agreed we'll meet in 1 month to discuss where to go from there. That's supposed to happen next weekend.
I've found out via a common friend that she wants to definitely end things that day.
Again, she's having an internet affair with an ex boyfriend who is also "supposedly" divorcing his wife.
[quote=Fracesc]
So you pay rent for 3 months at this place, ditch it, no worries, no excuses.
And you're worried about what's fair with pushing your wife out? You're not pushing her out, you don't get it, she's choosing to leave, you have nothing to do with it, it's ok, it's not your problem.
I will think about that under this new light of the affair.
hey no problem. I've seen alot of affairs, know alot of affairs going on now, talked to people on both sides of the fence and have friends who have gotten to the point of open marriages. I can tell you true stories that would turn your stomach, but
I would'nt tell you to get out and have some fun and start thinking about yourself and not your wife for a while if I taught being $hit upon to be a good thing or a productive way to get to a point where you could effectively work on a relationship with your wife.
Maybe I change my mind later but I also need to acknowledge that I made mistakes that confused her and pushed them to that unfortunate decision.
what is "unfortunate" about their decision? "unfortunate" for you maybe. But for them, well ....
Hey Frac ~
What is if you ring up Mrs. Call All The Shots and tell her you want to meet before next week. Pick the day and tell her that's when you would like to talk. Tell her that you have some information you want to share with her and it must be done in person. It can't wait.
Greek
Frac, those few pages in DR are NOT going to help you. For now you do the following:
1) Break off ALL contact with your W. EVERYTHING. Email, text, phonecall etc.
2) Sit down and get a hold of yourself. Calm down. Your mind is flying in 2000 different directions and you're in a highly agitated emotional state. Just CALM down.
3) YOU DO NOTHING right now. NOTHING. I'll repeat that: NOTHING. That means you do not talk to her, do not look for her, do NOT go to her FB page. You stay the hell away from anything that is going to trigger you.
4) Once you have gathered your senses you sit down and work on a plan. What you are going to be advised to do is going to seem like absolute madness. It will be counter-intuitive and your mind is going to be screaming blue murder! Ignore it.
The weekends are quiet on the board as many people are away from work. Sit tight. You're going to get a shirtstorm of activity on your thread come Monday. You're going to be pulled in 50 directions of people telling you what to do and how to do it... Expect it.
I'd like you to keep in mind one thing: The soft, compassionate approach does not work very well with WalkAway Wives in the midst of an affair. You're going to have to suppress those wishy-washy melty-man tendencies within you.
I'll try keep up to date with your thread.
When you do meet with her, you say "W, I know about OM. I will not be part of an open marriage. You will either commit to working on our M and that will mean no contact with him. I will expect you to verify that with open cell phone and email accounts. If you will not agree to to no contact and to work on our M, I will begin interviewing lawyers tomorrow."
Until you do meet to have this discussion, disclose nothing to her. In fact, you should make yourself very hard to get in touch with until the meeting. Go dark.
Expose the EA to the OM's W. She needs to know. And when she beats him over the head with it, your W will be so yesterday. He will drop her.
Greek
Greek
She's not agreeing in working on the relationship, she'll take the divorce offer as a freedom pass.
Again, I don't have a way to contact this guy's wife.
How can I do that if I don['t even know who he is!
I'm still thinking if I should share with her just a print out of the "Not-so-great Escape" chapter. She deserves to know what she's going through. She's repitting her best friend's pattern!
Any thoughts on how she could react to this?
why tell her anything. why even bother talking to your wife. if you are convinced she is screwing around and that next week she was going to dump you why give her the satisfaction? would you cry in front of her? tell her to f off and storm away? or laugh in her face?
despite what alot of people say on this site, its not about her. ITS ABOUT YOU!. and despite the pain and the heartache you might be feeling now, YOU WILL GET OVER IT. the sooner the better. the sooner the better.
think about the coral reef analogy. some fish are pretty. some are even prettier. some are blue. others red. some are good to eat on a friday night. some bite and others bony. whens the last time you had some tuna?
I think you know everything there is to talk about. what more is there to learn? why bother putting yourself through it? why even think about it? spend all night toss and turning and hitting on a bottle of jack? ill.
there are alot of fun things to do on a friday night! find some friends to take you out. if you were your wife and she just found out and called her friends, i wouldn't doubt they be yelling, 'dump that loser lets go out and find you a new guy' and she would be out having a good time, excellent time forgetting all about you.
or you can pine away on this site for months and not get on with your life or even get to a point to where you can effectively start working on putting your relationship back together.
Steve, really? Cut it out. The guy is reeling and hurting and confused. You're offering him momentary distractions that in the long run are not solutions to his current problem.
Greek
You're still NOT LISTENING are you?
Sit down and get a hold of yourself. Yes this sucks. Read my first post to you.
FOR NOW THAT IS ALL THAT YOU DO. i.e. Shut up, sit tight and wait for the shock to pass.
I'm still thinking if I should share with her just a print out of the "Not-so-great Escape" chapter. She deserves to know what she's going through. She's repitting her best friend's pattern!
Any thoughts on how she could react to this?
NO! It will not convince her.
Greek
Here are my thoughts on your situation.
Do a little digging and find out who OM's wife is. If you know his name, public records may well reveal her name and other info.
In the meantime, tell your W that next weekend doesn't work for you, maybe sometime the following week.(you are out having fun on the weekend, of course). This will buy you a bit of time to try to contact OM's wife and find out what OM has been telling her. If OM is lying to his W, then you have a chance to expose the affair.
Until you see what else you can find out, say NOTHING to your W about what you know and how you know it.
Here are my thoughts on your situation.
Do a little digging and find out who OM's wife is. If you know his name, public records may well reveal her name and other info.
In the meantime, tell your W that next weekend doesn't work for you, maybe sometime the following week.(you are out having fun on the weekend, of course). This will buy you a bit of time to try to contact OM's wife and find out what OM has been telling her. If OM is lying to his W, then you have a chance to expose the affair.
Until you see what else you can find out, say NOTHING to your W about what you know and how you know it.
Solid.
Greek
I'd like you to keep in mind one thing: The soft, compassionate approach does not work very well with WalkAway Wives in the midst of an affair. You're going to have to suppress those wishy-washy melty-man tendencies within you.
I'll try keep up to date with your thread.
Thanks this is very very helpful, man. Could you pls elaborate on that last parragraph? What am I supposed to do now?
Now I have a very very immediate issue to resolve and i;m not in good shape to resolve it.
We had agreed to meet in one week! should I cancel it? Should I take this other guys advice to reclaim the apartment? I can't afford to pay two rents :S !!!!
Another proof of the affair is she gave me the digital camera before I came back from holiday and there are pictures of them having dinner! Not doint anything but that's enough of a proof to me that they went out more than a few times. Can I confront her with this?
Pls do ela
I agree with everything Dudess has said as well EXCEPT for you calling her.
AVOID YOUR WIFE AT ALL COSTS! You're in no state to communicate with her and you are going to FARK IT UP.
Just go dead quiet. Let her run after you.
I have more questions for you, but will wait to see if you've reached a stable state to ask them.
Get yourself settled, Frac.
Greek
Who pays for her cell phone and Internet? If it's you, cut her off. She's been using the Internet to conduct her EA. Her mobile is probably not clean either. If that's a bill you pay, turn it off.
Greek
Could you pls elaborate on that last parragraph?
All in good time.
What am I supposed to do now?
NOTHING.
Now I have a very very immediate issue to resolve and i;m not in good shape to resolve it.
That's correct you are not in good shape. A man does not REACT... he responds... WHEN HE IS READY.
Is your issue really that important to you? Nope!
Is complying to her demands going to help you? Nope!
Has meekly obeying her every whim helped you so far? Nope!
Stop doing what DOES NOT work.
You cut off ALL contact with her. She does not call the shots anymore. You do. You will talk to her when YOU feel like it.
We had agreed to meet in one week! should I cancel it?
Nope. Don't cancel it. Just don't answer the phone. Don't confirm anything. Let her worry about you for a change. Turn the tide. She wants to dump you right? Well you don't let her!
Should I take this other guys advice to reclaim the apartment?
Not at this moment. You are not ready for that just yet. You need the time away from her right now more than you need the money and the aggravation from her presence.
You DO NOT confront her with the affair YET. You only get one chance at that. Confrontation and exposure if done incorrectly will work AGAINST you.
I can't tell you how grateful I am for your advice, Gnosis.
I will do that.
I also found this Guy details, he is married with kids. 13 years has been married and he's feeling 'guilty' to leave the marriage for the kids. Doing my best to find out her home phone number or who the wife might be.
Any ideas?
question about going, dark. What if she finds out I've being hiding and tries to look for me at work to drop the bomb there?
She's just starting a new job and she's actually really busy.
Her commute is hell so chances are she won't do that.
But it's good to know how to react.
I can't tell you how grateful I am for your advice, Gnosis.
Gnosis is awesome. He's helped me a lot.
I also found this Guy details, he is married with kids. 13 years has been married and he's feeling 'guilty' to leave the marriage for the kids. Doing my best to find out her home phone number or who the wife might be.
Any ideas?
Do you have his first and last name? Do you know where he lives? Where he works?
question about going, dark. What if she finds out I've being hiding and tries to look for me at work to drop the bomb there?
She's just starting a new job and she's actually really busy.
Her commute is hell so chances are she won't do that.
But it's good to know how to react.
"Wow - you caught me at a really busy time. Gotta run."
And when she calls - "Wow - right in the middle of something. Shouldn't have picked up b/c I can't talk now. Try later. Bye."
Text message --- don't answer. Same for email.
Greek
sorry but I just want to be prepared for every situation.
1. We have a joint account so she KNOWS if buy something or take cash out of the ATM. Even if I pay rent, she'll find out. She's going to know I'm just avoiding her. She's could react to that really angry. What should I do then?
2. What if she drops a letter at work then telling me it's over?
3. The guy she's having an affair with is flying over sometime in the near future.
I just realized that I've been spilling the beans all over this thread.
If I do move on with this idea and works. How do i make sure that my wife never reads this?
also,
I just realized that I've been spilling the beans all over this thread.
If I do move on with this idea and works. How do i make sure that my wife never reads this?
I'm working really hard in finding this OM's W name. But Im just thinking she's going to need proof about the affair and because they kept it secret, it's going to be hard.
I have some pictures but that's going to track the whole think to me and I was advice on this thread not to expose the affair to her. I'm not sure I want to do that. Should I?
Pls, I need ideas on how to drop the bomb on this OM's W.
Would posting something on his facebook wall be enough?
Friends and family will find out.
New found info:
My wife BF is helping her in this whole thing. The guy wanted to send her a gift home and wouldn't do it in his own name so my W BF helped him to disguise it as if it was from her.
She's cheering her up in going on with this. My guess she's feelig nostalgic for when she was having an aaffair and she was in love with the married guy. She thinks that by helping them in their affair she's redimning herself for the one she had with amarried man but failed.
Keep trying to find a way to find out the OM's wife. Either their address, her name, phone number etc. etc..
Maybe others on here can chime in with ideas..
YOU NEED TO CONTACT HIS WIFE.......
Before you do contact her you will need to gather all your evidence of the affair.... Copy of emails, the photos, etc..
Then come on here before you drop the bomb on his wife. You need to have this plan down to perfection. You will only get one chance to do it right.
Does anybody here have some ideas for Fracefc in finding out either her address, phone number or email???....
I think your best chance right now is to expose this affair and blow it out of the water. You need to call his bluff and see if he runs back to his wife if she really doesn't know. You need HER to tell you she knows or doesn't know.
I had a problem with my ear last week. I couldn't listen. I'm tempted to send her an email saying I can't really talk right now because I can't listen to anything and I'm getting that checked. I'm not going to be available on email either. Going to a clinic, whatever.
Also, it's worth noticing that her best friend followed the same pattern 4 years ago.
She divorced badly, started a relationship with a married man and now 4 years after that she's leaving the country cos she can't get over the fact that the guy neer left the wife and he is expecting a second baby with the wife.
Remember that. This is typical behavior of a married man with a mistress. More often than not, they lead the mistress on and don't leave the wife. They drop the mistress like a hot potato when the wife finds out and if the wife stays tough and doesn't roll over and allow him to cake eat. That is why you need to expose it now.
fracesc,
You have just experienced a massive emotional shock. In your situation, naturally you may feel panicked, and your mind will start racing and going in circles. You do not have to do anything today or tomorrow, and in fact you MUST NOT do anything yet except try to get more info. The most important thing at this moment is to get yourself centered emotionally. Doing something physical often helps. Go for a walk or a run, or whatever helps you.
What do you already know about OM that could help you find his wife? Do you have his first and last name? Do you know where he lives? Where he works?
Let your W contact you first. If by phone, don't answer. When she contacts, come back here.
Don't contact your wife right now. Let her contact you first.
Lay low so that you can get a game plan. You need to have WISDOM right now more than ever. Be wise.
Get your evidence gathered on them. Keep seeking a way to find out how you can contact his wife.. That is your first order of business.
*Lay low
*Gather evidence
*Find out how to contact his wife...
YOU NEED TO CONTACT HIS WIFE.......
Before you do contact her you will need to gather all your evidence of the affair.... Copy of emails, the photos, etc..
A. Finding her is going to be a quest. the guy is based in two locations supposedly, I don't know where the wife would be. Or her name. He doesn't list her on his facebook simple page. I need to know someone who would know him or something like that. It's quite hard atm and I know I'm working against time here.
I shouldn't have these emails. My wife will know this comes all the way from me. The only thing I have legitimately is a set of pictures of them having dinner and I don't even know if they're from that guy and my wife, I can barely see his face on his FB profile.
I have a copy of a chat they both had. Again, wasn't supposed to have this.
-------------------------------------------
Then come on here before you drop the bomb on his wife. You need to have this plan down to perfection. You will only get one chance to do it right.
A. Will do
------------------
I think your best chance right now is to expose this affair and blow it out of the water. You need to call his bluff and see if he runs back to his wife if she really doesn't know. You need HER to tell you she knows or doesn't know.
A.
I'm positive she doesn't know. the OM said to my W in one of their chat, he was still trying to detach but finding it hard because of the children and was trying to buy sometime .
---------------------
[/quote]
I'm positive she doesn't know. the OM said to my W in one of their chat, he was still trying to detach but finding it hard because of the children and was trying to buy sometime .
This is GOOD news for you. GREAT news. This is what the married man almost ALWAYS says to the mistress. Almost always. He will tell your wife that he doesn't love his wife and is just staying for the kids. This is a good sign that he probably wouldn't leave his wife for yours. I think you should call his bluff. Exposing will bring him to the point of truth. This (hard time leaving the kids) is what will keep your wife hooked and holding out on that hope. He will keep using that excuse for as long as your wife will allow it. As your wife's friend showed us, they sometimes will wait for YEARS.(four years in her case)
Find a way to get the information on how you can contact his wife. Don't give up. You know the saying of "if there is a will there is a way".....
\
What do you already know about OM that could help you find his wife? Do you have his first and last name? Do you know where he lives? Where he works?
Let your W contact you first. If by phone, don't answer. When she contacts, come back here.
I know who the guy is, he's fairly well know in a circle I have some contacts in. Still It's going to be really hard to just ask, so who's his wife uh? Don't even get me started on the Phone Number.
I Understand the need to gather evidence and I have STRONG, STRONG EVIDENCE the problem is, I shouldn't have it. I cheated to get it. And im afraid my wife is going to get so angry about me violating her privacy. But then, what do I have to lose? She already deceived a guy who has been busting his ass just for her. I guess.
And yes, I do need to wise up that's why I need you guys so much!!
I appreciate so much your help Duddes, Gucci, Greek. Everyone.
I can't reach my therapist right now and i can't afford a DB coach sadly right now. So you all the help I have right now. I do hope life rewards you for this.
Blessing.
I Understand the need to gather evidence and I have STRONG, STRONG EVIDENCE the problem is, I shouldn't have it. I cheated to get it. And im afraid my wife is going to get so angry about me violating her privacy
You better believe she is going to be angry. So?
Your marriage can recover from her being angry, but it can't recover while she is in an affair. Don't worry about her anger. She will get over that. Stick to your guns here.
She SHOULDN'T be having an affair either. Don't let her anger fool you. EXPECT her to be angry. Big whoopie. You have a RIGHT to know if your wife is in an affair.
Finding her is going to be a quest. the guy is based in two locations supposedly, I don't know where the wife would be. Or her name.
What comes up when you google his name? Have you tried various "people search" websites.
http://www.spokeo.com is one. Some of the info there is wrong, but some of it is right. If he owns a house with his wife, an online search of real estate records could bring up her name and the address.
I shouldn't have these emails. My wife will know this comes all the way from me.
That's why you say NOTHING until you have your full plan in place.
come on here before you drop the bomb on his wife. You need to have this plan down to perfection. You will only get one chance to do it right.
This is GOOD news for you. GREAT news. This is what the married man almost ALWAYS says to the mistress. Almost always. He will tell your wife that he doesn't love his wife and is just staying for the kids. This is a good sign that he probably wouldn't leave his wife for yours. I think you should call his bluff. Exposing will bring him to the point of truth. This (hard time leaving the kids) is what will keep your wife hooked and holding out on that hope. He will keep using that excuse for as long as your wife will allow it. As your wife's friend showed us, they sometimes will wait for YEARS.(four years in her case)
Find a way to get the information on how you can contact his wife. Don't give up. You know the saying of "if there is a will there is a way".....
My silly wife says she's in so much love that she's ready to accept him with a wife and kids. (even if she doesn't know him that much)
In her chats she used the same words she'd used with me when we first met. (We met online) Same codes we had for kisses, hugs, etc EXACTLY THE SAME!
----
Now about the wife, apparently his marriage is a nightmare. 13 years they've been married. It's definitely going to be a tough one. I'm trying but I need to seek alternatives on how to EXPOSE THIS and reach her wife by PROXY.
OR SHOULD I BE THE ONE MAKING THE CALL TO HER? Dropping the bomb?
OR SHOULD I BE THE ONE MAKING THE CALL TO HER? Dropping the bomb?
YOU need to be the one. You will more than likely be in the same camp as his wife. She may deny it at first, but you have set the wheels in motion.
My silly wife says she's in so much love that she's ready to accept him with a wife and kids. (even if she doesn't know him that much)
You are not factoring in the fact that the reason for you exposing to his wife is that HE MAY DUMP YOUR WIFE. If he dumps her then she is OUT. She will then come back to you.
My silly wife says she's in so much love that she's ready to accept him with a wife and kids.
That statement from your wife is more proof that he is telling her he probably isn't going to leave his wife. If he wasn't telling her that, then she wouldn't be having to tell him she will accept him with a wife and kids...
Work on getting ready to expose. It is your BEST weapon to get this turned around. Don't waste this opportunity by being weak. Get focused on your mission.
You are not factoring in the fact that the reason for you exposing to his wife is that HE MAY DUMP YOUR WIFE. If he dumps her then she is OUT. She will then come back to you.
Don't get me wrong, I'm going to do this. Big time. Cold Blood.
Now would she get back to me? We had unresolved issues. They'll still be there.
The more i find about this affair the more she says I failed. She does mentions me a lot in her conversations with him and her best friend. But both respond, "Yes, I know how it is, but you should remember he made you suffer". (as in neglected her, but was only because i was trying to support our house! I told her a million times i was taking care of her and felt guilty all the time for not being with her but didn't have a choice!!!!)
Any of you guys are available through MSN or skype?
I can't get hold of my therapist or any friends
and i'm going through a very severe crisi. Im afraid of doing something stupid.
Pls, if you are, I promise I won't harrass you.
Now would she get back to me? We had unresolved issues. They'll still be there.
Yes they will still be there. However, she will be OPEN to working on them. You will be open to working on them. This is why we have been telling you to lay low from her for now. You do NOT want to say or do something that is stupid.
However, before we get the cart before the horse, we need to stay focused on the mission at hand. We need to get this exposed. You need to be prepared for your wife to be angry. VERY ANGRY. So? Big whoopie. She will get over the anger. You can recover from the anger. You can't reconcile while she is in the midst of an affair. The affair has to end before you stand a chance.
Fracesc, you have got to get a grip. I know how hard this is, but you have got to stop freaking out about everything.
You keep asking what you should do, and you have been told, but you don't listen. Why?
Listen to Gucci.
Do not email, call, or contact your w at all right now. Blow off the meeting with her. Just don't show up. Do not explain yourself. Stop asking what she wants. Stop being so predictable. Oh, gee....she "might get mad...she might get upset...?" So the f what???
STOP DANCING TO HER TUNE!!!
Your new place sounds wonderful. I see no reason why you need to move back, unless you own the property. If it's just another rental, let her have it and pay for it herself.
And take that advice about "not snooping" and flush it down the sh!tter. You deserve to know what is going on so you can act accordingly. Just don't tip you hand to your w. And stop trying to get her to read stuff. She doesn't care. it won't help.
So, put up the Berlin Wall for now. Stop looking for excuses to contact her. Just stop!! Just be quiet. Just sit tight.
You keep asking what you should do, and you have been told, but you don't listen. Why?
I can tell you with all my heart that I do want to listen. I'm working really hard as we speak on my mission to find who this woman is. Im getting closer, i can feel it.
Thanks for being so reassuring Kimmie.
Love,
F
It is ok. This was a huge shock to you today. Normal behavior. You are coming around just fine. You haven't contacted your wife, so that shows that you are keeping your head in the ballgame. I understand and told you that your emotions would be all over the place today.
The others on here have circled the wagons with you. It is better that you post on here ten thousand times today than for you to get weak and do something stupid. Capice?
You are doing fine for someone who just got blindsided by what happened. Keep to the mission at hand. Try to find your emotional balance. You are doing fine.
Fracesc the board policy forbids people from sharing direct contact information with each other. However a lot of us are members of the DivorceBusting FaceBook group.
Since privacy is a concern of yours I'd create a new FB profile and join the DB group there. I'm a member of that DB group there you can look me up on there because I use the same last name on FB as I do here.
What would be a good exercise for you is to go back to the beginning of your thread and re-read everything. I haven't even had a chance to do this yet. You've received a lot of advice today take some time and read it.
One thing people seem to have missed is that OM is in Asia somewhere. This will restrict his abilities to track down OMW without letting the cat out of the bag.
For you Frac...
You seem to be extremely scared of your W when it should be the other way around. With that in mind I want you to think about this carefully because I seem to be the only one who can see this for now... You have a HECK of a lot more power over this than you think you have.
Here's some questions for you:
1. In who's name is the immigration visa to the US?
2. Have you been naturalized yet?
3. Have you been to see a lawyer?
4. Why are you so scared of your W?
Sorry, More and more questions come to mind now that I know this.
1. What about the joint account. I can get my paycheck changed as of tomorrow so it wont go through the joint one account.
2. The phone bill is on my name on the old place. Should I cancel that and let them cut her internet?
Again, my worry with those actions is not that my wife gets upset but that she'll notice that I'm weird and suspect that I know about the affair. She knows I know her email's password.
You are doing fine for someone who just got blindsided by what happened. Keep to the mission at hand. Try to find your emotional balance. You are doing fine.
I second that. You're handling this very well. Keep up the good work.
One thing people seem to have missed is that OM is in Asia somewhere. This will restrict his abilities to track down OMW without letting the cat out of the bag.
For you Frac...
You seem to be extremely scared of your W when it should be the other way around. With that in mind I want you to think about this carefully because I seem to be the only one who can see this for now... You have a HECK of a lot more power over this than you think you have.
Here's some questions for you:
1. In who's name is the immigration visa to the US?
2. Have you been naturalized yet?
3. Have you been to see a lawyer?
4. Why are you so scared of your W?
I intend to re read the whole thing in a sec. And do a recap. I still need to answer very practical questions as the Joint accounts, etc.
Few, notes. The OM is not in Asia, he is based in the US and Latinamerica.
1. I'm not in the US. I'm somewhere in Europe. My residence card is in my wife's name but she offered even if we separated she wouldn't get a divorce so I could stay. (I'm pretty sure the company I work for would sponsor me anyway)
2. No. I have a Residence card valid for another 5 years.
3. Nope.
4. I'm scared to lose her. And feel very guilty that I pushed her into that place. I'm sorry. Part of the process is accepting your part of the responsability. I am doing that.
1. What about the joint account. I can get my paycheck changed as of tomorrow so it wont go through the joint one account.
Yes to the paycheck, but no to tomorrow.
2. The phone bill is on my name on the old place. Should I cancel that and let them cut her internet?
Yes to this, but do it on the day you expose.
Again, my worry with those actions is not that my wife gets upset but that she'll notice that I'm weird and suspect that I know about the affair.
Thanks for explaining this. You are absolutely correct and thinking with a clear head. Congratulations. You're doing much better than most Newcomers.
OK, with the above said. You are right. Stealth and not raising any suspicion is very important right now. STICK TO THIS.
The key here is that when you pull the rug out from under her feet it must hit her like a ton of bricks. That means, the day prior or on the day you expose to her you do this all at once. You send her into a complete tailspin.
1) Cut off all her lines of communication you can (WITHOUT NOTICE)
2) Move your funds from the joint account into a personal one where she has no access.
3) Change the account your paycheck goes into.
Hold off on the exposure to OMW for a day or two.
This has to be a timed sequence of events.
[/quote]
NOW you are thinking. These are all good questions. You are already getting good focus...
1. What about the joint account. I can get my paycheck changed as of tomorrow so it wont go through the joint one account.
Great idea. Change it right away and do NOT tell your wife.
Just do it.
2. The phone bill is on my name on the old place. Should I cancel that and let them cut her internet?
Now you are thinking... Of COURSE you should cut it off if you are paying for it (you are paying for her affair)
Cut it off. Don't say a word... Maybe the OM will pay for her internet and phone huh?
Again, my worry with those actions is not that my wife gets upset but that she'll notice that I'm weird and suspect that I know about the affair. She knows I know her email's password.
She very well may suspect you know. She won't tell you about it though if you don't ask. That leaves her with quite a problem then doesn't it?
You don't know this yet, but when you do these things you will actually be starting the process of her RESPECTING you again. You have been groveling and being weak by thinking that if you tried harder and was more this or more that, that she would want to stay with you. I told you that you had the wrong diagnosis. That was NEVER going to work because it wasn't about you. It was about the AFFAIR. You were in a gunfight without a loaded gun. Not good.
Thanks, Gno, Right on the money! I was just going to post that he has a lot more power than he realizes. And the bit about re-reading this thread is good too. I used to do that when I could feel my mind going....open the pod bay doors HAL.....
Ok, back on task. F, please don't worry about you w getting mad at you. It is a non-issue at this point because she is in lala land. In fact, some anger can be good. Especially for you. Don't be scared, be angry and channel it constructively.
You can do this.
Take control of your own money and let her pay for her own stuff. Cancel everything at the other place that is in your name. This will be a major show of strength and may shock her into realizing that she is not calling all the shots here.
She wants freedom? Give it to her.
Is the other place a rental, or do you own it?
1. What about the joint account. I can get my paycheck changed as of tomorrow so it wont go through the joint one account.
2. The phone bill is on my name on the old place. Should I cancel that and let them cut her internet?
Again, my worry with those actions is not that my wife gets upset but that she'll notice that I'm weird and suspect that I know about the affair. She knows I know her email's password.
IMO, this is not the time to do those things.
Given that she knows you know her email password, I would think she would get suspicious quite easily. In view of this information, I would be inclined to wait until she contacts you about meeting, and then reply via email or text that you are busy until after next weekend.
I'll read and think about your other answers in a moment. This jumped out and needs to be made clear to you:
4. I'm scared to lose her. And feel very guilty that I pushed her into that place. I'm sorry. Part of the process is accepting your part of the responsability. I am doing that.
I'll break this apart for you:
OK, here's the plain truth. YOU HAVE LOST HER. Your marriage and relationship as you knew it IS DEAD. You need to get this into your mind ASAP. This does NOT mean that you give up. What this means is that you are going to build a NEW relationship with her IF possible. There are no guarantees here.
And feel very guilty that I pushed her into that place.
You didn't push here into the arms of another man. She had the choice to raise the problems in your relationship and work with you to find solutions. She didn't. Instead she chose to live in fairyland and take on another lover and lie to you about it.
I'm sorry. Part of the process is accepting your part of the responsability. I am doing that.
Fine and yes, that is important to do. But don't accept everything she says at face value. You already know that she is a liar. You need to use your own discernment to distinguish the TRUE reasons. Many times the reasons given are not the truth but excuses to justify their bad behavior.
Listen to Gucci and Gno.
Hang in there. We're here.
She isn't going to care if he knows. She thinks she is in love with the OM. Deeply in love. When he changes the accounts and stops paying on the phone bill etc..
She will call him in anger. She won't be thinking any such thoughts that he will expose. Remember. She thinks that the OM is leaving his wife, so exposing isn't going to enter her mind. She already thinks it IS exposed and that they are going to be happy ever after...(and it very well may be exposed. We want to KNOW for a FACT if it is. The only way to get that as a fact is to talk to the only person who can answer that. The OM's wife.) We need to know before we proceed to the next plan.
She will call and be angry and say.."why did you do that to our account. How dare you. I thought you wanted to work this out, but NOW I am done." (or something to that effect)
Just tell her.. "I have been doing some thinking and I decided that I thought this was the best thing for ME.
Then expect her to respond in more anger. Let her. Just say no more and stand by your original statement. Get those things done NOW. Exposing will be done as soon as we can find out how to contact the OM's wife. If you wait, you are running the chance of HER taking ALL of the money FIRST.
Don't worry. She isn't going to associate the money with exposure. She may thinnk you have an idea, but I would guarantee she will deny it if you asked her. Just let her believe that you are getting tough because you don't want to be with a woman who doesn't want to be with you.; Leave it at that.
She wants freedom? Give it to her.
Is the other place a rental, or do you own it?
Thanks so much for this. I appreciate you telling me about the power I have.
For years I wouldn't realise that. I feel empowered now, crushed but empowered. I thought i was the disapointement of this marriage and turns out she ended up being who messed up worst.
It's a rental.
Have you copied/printed the emails?
OM's wife may want to see them.
It's a rental. Excellent! Let her pay her own way from now on.
You're doing good.
Breathe,
You can do this.
Have you copied/printed the emails?
OM's wife may want to see them.
YES.... You HAVE to have those copied/printed and all evidence possible gathered. She may want to deny her husband would do such a thing. (like you did earlier when I mentioned it to you) Have the evidence ready and able to show her.
Thanks so much for this. I appreciate you telling me about the power I have.
For years I wouldn't realise that. I feel empowered now, crushed but empowered. I thought i was the disapointement of this marriage and turns out she ended up being who messed up worst.
Great attitude. The TRUTH shall set you free. You are getting to the truth. You can deal with the truth. It hurts deeply at first, but it is the fastest way to heal once it is out in the open.
Then expect her to respond in more anger. Let her. Just say no more and stand by your original statement. Get those things done NOW. Exposing will be done as soon as we can find out how to contact the OM's wife. If you wait, you are running the chance of HER taking ALL of the money FIRST.
-------
I have to say something about the money. This are our life savings. Her father's wedding gift to us. And also let's not forget the fact that she supported me financially for almost 3 years. I've been supporting us for just one year.
Thats why I feel guilty about the money. And no, she would not take all the money, she proposed that we'd divide it in half and I told her I wasn't prepared for that a month ago.
Now, I'm reading the whole tread again and I'm getting lots of mixed messages.
Mixed messages
1. Should I cancel the phone line or not as of monday? Or two days before exposing?
2. Should I change my paycheck (payday is 25 March)? Or should I just move the money as soon as it lands in the account? She'll see that I did this right away, if i can get it moved to a different account from work she won't notice as soon.
3. Should I go dark ? Or reply when she asks why I didn't call her to arrange the meeting as we agreed?
4. Should I split the money in half then and when she calls say I decided I don't want to be with someone that doesn't want to be with me? Or I don't move the money until right before exposing?
Not scared anymore that she gets angry, now all im trying to do is not blowing my cover and tip her off unconciously. If she knows, the OM knows and he might prevent the OM W.
She isn't going to care if he knows. She thinks she is in love with the OM. Deeply in love. When he changes the accounts and stops paying on the phone bill etc..
She will call him in anger. She won't be thinking any such thoughts that he will expose. Remember. She thinks that the OM is leaving his wife, so exposing isn't going to enter her mind. She already thinks it IS exposed and that they are going to be happy ever after...(and it very well may be exposed. We want to KNOW for a FACT if it is. The only way to get that as a fact is to talk to the only person who can answer that. The OM's wife.) We need to know before we proceed to the next plan.
I agree with gucci that your W won't care. My concern is that if OM is lying about what his wife knows, raising suspicion at this point could result in a change of password and loss of access to information which could help track down OM's wife.
Print the emails. And copy and paste to your own email too.
[quote=gucci loafer] The only way to get that as a fact is to talk to the only person who can answer that. The OM's wife.) We need to know before we proceed to the next plan.
Im waiting until is very late at night to go into her email accounts so she won't even know im doing this.Then will print and copy all evidence. Will print and copy pictures, etc. Flowers he sent to her, etc.
But again I have to say this is proving really difficult the wife thing cos the OM is based in two locations. one the US the other Latinamerica. So Im thinking he's in Latinamerica working and maybe the wife in MIAMI. That way he got away with the affair while my wife was there IN OUR ANNIVERSARY TRIP.
Now I understand that when she said she was sleeping over at her friend's house she wasn't. She lied to me about caring about her mom and wanting to be with her. LIED.
I also need to ask about when should I expose this to her family. Her mom and dad are divorced and I have a very good relationship with them. Her dad will be crushed cos he suffered through this in her past marriages.
Thats why I feel guilty about the money. And no, she would not take all the money, she proposed that we'd divide it in half and I told her I wasn't prepared for that a month ago.
Just take your half then. Doesn't matter. Even if you take it all, it is only to protect YOU and show her that you are getting some backbone. You can still divide it up properly later. Better that you are in control of it than her right now. If she is using that account for things now and has been since this started, she is slowly leaving you with less of a total for you to get half of. This means that she is SPENDING part of YOUR HALF. Think about that. You don't have to take what is hers, but you do need to get what is yours.
I would cancel the phone and do the banking right away. However, I don't think it is a so crucial that a day or so would make a difference. So that is not a big deal which way you decide.
As far as going dark. Yes. For now. She is going to contact you, so dark isn't really an issue. Just make sure you let her contact you. You seem smart enough to think of some lame brained excuse to postpone the meeting. There are thousands of excuses.
I am sick
I can't make it, can we reschedule.
I have to work
I can't make it that day, let me call you back when I know my schedule....
The list of excuses is endless. Matter of fact, read some of the other threads and see what a wayward spouse uses as an excuse and just pluck one of theirs. Seems to work well for them. Most BS's on this site fall for them consistently without a question asked.
I also need to ask about when should I expose this to her family. Her mom and dad are divorced and I have a very good relationship with them. Her dad will be crushed cos he suffered through this in her past marriages.
First things first. Find the wife.
BTW Fracesc, I think you are doing fantastic given that you found out about the affair 8 hours ago.
Frac, I'm going to say this one more time: C A L M D O W N
You seem to be under the impression that this is a race when it's not. Time and patience are your allies here. THERE IS NO RUSH.
Do NOT do a thing until you have a PLAN OF ACTION established and have weighed the consequences. You are firing off response after response after response. This signifies PANIC and EXCITEMENT. i.e. you're swinging on the opposite site of the emotional pendulum.
It is absolutely IMPERATIVE that you get yourself on an even keel. The 4C's: Cool, calm, collected and confident. You have nothing to fear.
- Pull out a notepad and pen
- Go back an re-read every bit of advice.
- Make notes and formulate your plan
- Gather your questions
- Let things sink in
Then come back here to post your questions and share what you think your plan should be. You have been given great advice so far. Some of it is tactical, some of it strategic. This is why you don't go off half-cocked. Every action you take will have consequences (GOOD and BAD) this is why you need to prepare yourself for it. You prepare so there will be no surprises.
A lot of people go in half-cocked and unprepared. I don't want to see this happen to you. Sure you are going to make mistakes. We all have. You have the advantage that you are open to listening to people that have walked the path you're about to take.
When your plan is up there we will see it and can advise you on more or less what to expect. So calm down. This is just the beginning of a long process. The less mistakes you make the sooner you can dig yourself out of this hole.
Yes he is doing well isn't he Dudess...
Excellent job today France. We all know how much it hurts, but we also know that you MUST find balance as soon as possilbe. You are doing great...
I won't be on here too much longer today, but the wagons have been circled around you.....
Get the plan together. It seems to be coming together already. Good job.
I would cancel the phone and do the banking right away. However, I don't think it is a so crucial that a day or so would make a difference. So that is not a big deal which way you decide.
1. Just remembered that I need to check if i can do the phone thing without canceling the broadband first. The broadband is in her name. That's my only worry. I could cancel the payment directly from the bank and get the line cut but god nows how many months will that take.
2. Banking is still a big thing. She knows I wouldn't do that. Again, I'm saying this not cos im scared but because she'll suspect something is weird. And even if I do that tonight, she'll be asking me for an explanation tomorrow. Maybe it's best if I wait until monday so she's knackered from work and wont check the balance in at least a week.
All i want to have is the right answers. I don't want to make her suspicious about me stealing all the money. Family and other nasty things will be involved if I do that. I'd be the [censored] and I do want her to be the [censored] and that everybody could see that later.
BTW Fracesc, I think you are doing fantastic given that you found out about the affair 8 hours ago.
Thanks but in all honesty i was in denial until Gucci and the guys opened my eyes and I got the strenght to log into her emails. But I kind of suspected from her facebook status when she went ahead of me for our holiday. She posted something like:
1. "Sometimes a door you thought you closed actually stayed open" (ex boyfriend)
2. I hate my self for loving what I shouldn't and falling out of love with what i should be in love.
3. Love is supposed to be effortless. If you need to try and love someone, it's not working.
U don't know how appreciate your help, Gucci.
You acted like a true friend in the beginning pushing me to see the truth.
Without you I'd still be thinking about my stupid plan and feeling guilty for not being what she wanted me to be.
Respect and Love.
quick question, im not that good on FB
is this the DB group?
http://www.facebook.com/DivorceBusting?ref=tsI can't seem to be able to contact any of you guys. Gnosis ?
Yes, that's the one. Look up the members list. I'm the one with a bald head and first name is Max.
yes, I believe it is.
F, there's one more thing, you keep saying that your "w would never do____" whatever.
That is out the window now because she is already doing things that you never thought she would do. Get that sort of thinking out of your head right now. This is a whole different ball game now. She has changed the rules.
You cannot trust her on any level right now. Please believe this and act accordingly.
I know this hurts, we have all been where you are.
You can do this.
That is out the window now because she is already doing things that you never thought she would do. Get that sort of thinking out of your head right now. This is a whole different ball game now. She has changed the rules.
You cannot trust her on any level right now. Please believe this and act accordingly.
Listen to Kimmie. Good advice.
yes, I believe it is.
F, there's one more thing, you keep saying that your "w would never do____" whatever.
That is out the window now because she is already doing things that you never thought she would do. Get that sort of thinking out of your head right now. This is a whole different ball game now. She has changed the rules.
You cannot trust her on any level right now. Please believe this and act accordingly.
I know this hurts, we have all been where you are.
You can do this.
Im awakening here.
Good. Keep your head in the game.
(((Francesc)))
Oh, and try and get some sleep. What time is it where you are?
Good. Keep your head in the game.
(((Francesc)))
Oh, and try and get some sleep. What time is it where you are?
very early in the morning. Yawn.
Wow, Fracesc, you spent the entire night obssessing how to win back a woman who is still in love with her old boyfriend,
said,
So in front of the therapist she was as cold hearted as she had been saying "She was too much woman for me" "She doesn't hate me, she just doesn't love me" "She had wasted her youth on me", etc "I'm seconds away from being unfaithful to you"
and
she'd find other alternatives, sex toys, etc to satisfy herself.
and you didnt even go to the damn aquarium to look at fish.
and to top it off she is leaching off you financially, doesnt even like talking to you, and your crumb is an electronic smiley face.
Fracesc.
you are better than that, in fact you are as great as you want to be.
Next week she is planning on giving you the ax. Expect that!
Esp. if you go making an international phone call to this OM wife.
What if your wife says to you 'You just dont do it for me?'
Start living your life for yourself!
GET OVER THE CODEPENDENCE ASAP
Read over again what Greek wrote to you earlier,
When you do meet with her, you say "W, I know about OM. I will not be part of an open marriage. You will either commit to working on our M and that will mean no contact with him. I will expect you to verify that with open cell phone and email accounts. If you will not agree to to no contact and to work on our M, I will begin interviewing lawyers tomorrow."
Until you do meet to have this discussion, disclose nothing to her. In fact, you should make yourself very hard to get in touch with until the meeting. Go dark.
Gucci and PDT have written some very good ones too. I'd memorize one of them. That's all you really need to say to this woman. You start talking all emotions and crying she is going to nasty. did before, thats her style.
I'd just ignore her from now on, if i ever saw her again say, 'I'm done.' But thats me. I would have walked out on the whole satisfaction thing with an fu. She really thinks that little of you?
If talking with her has any positive outcome I'd be suprised. She might actually admit to the other man and tell you they're in love. What you gonna say then, no your not here read DR?
Take the next 3 months to work on yourself. 2 weeks is not enough.
STOP THINKING ABOUT HER!
Yes, that's the one. Look up the members list. I'm the one with a bald head and first name is Max.
Will look for you.
Wow, Fracesc, you spent the entire night obssessing how to win back a woman who is still in love with her old boyfriend,
I hear you and I will there to that side of the road believe me. But I can't do it without a cool head and I don't have one right now.
********************BIG BIG BIG BIG UPDATE *****************
I'm 90% positive I found the OM W name. I know what city are they based but dont have an address.
The 10% that im not sure about is, just because all i have is her Facebook page and I'm assuming it's her cos the OM slipped her first name on an msn talk to my W. I looked for that name in OM's FB friends and she's the only person with that name. She just joined facebook a few weeks ago and the OM was the first contact she added.
Enough evidence? Let me know what you think and if I should take any other meassures to confirm this. I've got a few leads I'm following already but I was thinking if it'd be a good idea to contact her directly on FB ask her for her mobile number to discuss a very sensitive matter with her. Or would that be dodgy? Maybe not a great idea.
I still don't know how to get her mobile or landline number. Working on this.
Anyway, I'm very close now. I need you to pls let me know how should I be preparing the bomb. I made screen grabs of all the emails that had evidence.
Thinking seriously of taking over her FB account to milk private messages but need to wait to when she's commuting for work so she wouldn't know I'm in and gets an alert. (A bit scared of this.)
BTW, the affair started properly after my wife asked me to move out. But I HAVE TO SAY, I ASKED LOUD AND CLEAR IF SHE WAS PLANNING TO SEE OTHER PEOPLE AND SHE SAID "NO" WITH TEARS IN HER EYES.
That's still a lie and an affair, isn't it?
Pls keep me posted with your advice, I've made all this progress only cos I had the best advice ever. Thank you infinitely to all of you.
Love
F
********** UPDATE ON THE BIG UPDATE *************
Yeah, I know i promised to sleep but I've tried for 3 hours and nothing even with sleeping pills.
So this woman I'm almost sure is the OM W doesn't seem to be very active on facebook BUT her sister seems to be there all the time. I wonder if I could approach her through the sister. A friend of mine has a friend in common with her. Trouble is, will she just give me her mobile just like that? Dunno..
Also could the bomb be drop by email? How else I'm going to send her all this? It's all digital! I think I do need some help in putting together the bomb. I'm 99% certain it's her. Her college and High School also match the area where she grew up.
Some decisions I made:
MONDAY
- first think I'll request for a meeting with one of the associates in my company who knows me and trusts me a lot. I'll explain the situation to him and ask him to "sponsor me" as it's very likely that I'll lose my Visa after dropping the bomb.
- In the same meeting I'll ask for my paycheck to be deposited in my personal account.
- No calling my wife tomorrow. Later in the week when she contacts me I'll make an excuse and say I was asked to work out of the city where I couldn't get any reception or internet (This happens a lot in the job I do). So won't be around until maybe the other weekend.
DECISIONS I STILL NEED TO MAKE
- When to take half of the money off the Joint account. I've mixed advice in here. I'm not resisting doing it, just don't want to tip her off. If I do that today, she'll find out immediately and will think somethings weird. Right now she's still thinking I'm a pushover. Could that play in my benefit? Let's say, doing that on tuesday or weds where she never will pay attention to the balance.
- Cancelling the phone like i think needs to be synchronized with dropping the bomb so she'll be in the dark when this happens. Or maybe it's a bad idea? She needs to feel when the bomb was drop? Would the OM tell her the bomb was dropped?
ALSO
- I still have some of my stuff in the house. Dont have keys. Though only a few papers are really important. also the phone line needs to be cancelled calling from the landline itself I think.
I'm thinking of making an excuse that I need to get some papers but that'd mean contacting her and letting her know that.
The benefits?
I'd could move all of my stuff to a storage near by. (easy thing to do)
and cancel that phone line for sure while she's at work.
More evidence
- I will milk facebook for more info while she's commuting to work. I already have the OM mobile phone number and will be trying to get proof from my phone company that my W contacted him at least once from here. (she did)
- The guy sent her flowers via a common girl friend using the friend's name not to raise suspicion. She paid for the flowers too so he wouldn;t have that on her cards statement. Proof of this flowers is on facebook, she posted and bragged about it. I have an email confirming it was from him all the way. So More evidence.
SOMETHING TO WORRY ABOUT
Her friend (yes, that one who has been encouraging her through all this, is moving with her. She lands early next month). That's why it's crucial that I get this done QUICKLY.
Ideas....?
I'm going to the gym in a couple of hours, that'll take my head off of this for a while. Hopefully some answers would appear.
BTW, the affair started properly after my wife asked me to move out. But I HAVE TO SAY, I ASKED LOUD AND CLEAR IF SHE WAS PLANNING TO SEE OTHER PEOPLE AND SHE SAID "NO" WITH TEARS IN HER EYES.
So that's the rule that makes it ok? Good to know.
Did she file for legal separation or divorce before starting the affair because I think she's still married to you regardless if she asked you to move out and on top of that I don't think the affair manifested itself the very second you moved out, methinks it was in progress even before you moved, something to think about ;-)
Agreed Robx plus SHE LIED consistently to me. She told me she wanted to stay there longer to mourn with her mom and all that time he was with the OM supported by her BF. She'd tell her mom she was sleeping over at her BFs place; She lied to everybody. And she already started telling her family about her decision to end things with be but no mention of the OM, the fact that he's married, etc
On a brighter note, I just coming back from the gym, everything hurts so good. I think I'm getting in the zone. No desperation, pure assertiveness.
Frac, I'm going to say this one more time: C A L M D O W N
You seem to be under the impression that this is a race when it's not. Time and patience are your allies here. THERE IS NO RUSH.
Sorry Gnosis. I appreciate your support and I am trying to calm down (I know it barely shows but I took anti depressants and even that couldn't sleep) Sorry, Im really doing my best.
I do understand it's no race but I do feel time is working against me.
There's this very small window of opportunity before the OM tells the wife.
In one of his emails he tells my wife "that might happen sooner than expected".
Also as soon as I start disconnecting the phone, moving money, etc she'll probably put more pressure on him, don;t you think? Since I'm out of the way.
Not to mention I have a [censored] storm consistently coming at me at work for the next months so I'm trying to maximize weekends.
So I did my home work, just need to get her phone number as we're in different continents I can't do it personally. Are FB and Email other methods? to reach her?
Pls read through my post and see if it's starting to look more like a plan.
Comments/ideas/slaps in the face are always welcome.
Thanks
I mean that false alarm was to erase a post.
I'm holding for instructions and comments on the plan i posted before.
Ok, more plans:
How to try and contact the OM's W now that I know her name and her FB page.
1. Contact her sister, as she's far more active on FB than OM W. And just be honest with her "Hi, I am Fresc, you don't know me but it's incredibly important that I get in touch with XXXX either via email or phone. I've tried FB but she won't reply. I know your first instinct will be to delete this. Pls, don't. With all my heart I'm telling you, it's crucial that I contact her. She deserves to know what's happening. Thank you."
Once I have OM W phone or email I'l work on the script.
2. Contact her sister with a fake female profile and pretend I'm mistaking he for her sister. Weren't you married to XXXX (OM? No? Oops sorry, oh, she's your sister! I met her at X event/party and we got along really well. Do you mind if I ask for her email address? (this takes at least 3 steps)
3. I have OM cell phone number. Is that any use? Could someone call him and say, sorry I thought this was (OM W) cellphone. Oh sorry, i must have made a mistake. DO you know her? Oh, she's your wife. Do you mind giving me her right number?
Not sure if I'd buy this.
4. OM cell phone number.... what else could i do with this...
5. White pages, thought this seems naive. No one registers.
THe problem with strangers calling to cell phones is that there are lots of extortions happening in Latinamerica so nobody will be giving out details there.
any feedback on this?
Wow.. You have been a busy man.
Looks like you are getting close here.
You have some ideas that are possibilities, but I think we need to think these over to make sure of the pluses and minuses of what could happen.
I am not real familiar with FB. Can you explain in a nutshell how it works? If you contact someone on FB, do their other friends or contacts see these conversations?
Let me know. My first instinct is to keep digging to get the OM's wife home phone or cell phone number or find out where she works or lives.
Keep digging here for now. Looks like some options could be opening up. As far as the FB way of contacting her sister or her, this sounds like a possibility. I would think it would be better to contact them is such a way that they would be curious enough to contact you to find out what you mean and are talking about. This would be better than just asking for a phone number. That probably wouldn't happen.
OK, with the above said. You are right. Stealth and not raising any suspicion is very important right now. STICK TO THIS.
The key here is that when you pull the rug out from under her feet it must hit her like a ton of bricks. That means, the day prior or on the day you expose to her you do this all at once. You send her into a complete tailspin.
1) Cut off all her lines of communication you can (WITHOUT NOTICE)
2) Move your funds from the joint account into a personal one where she has no access.
3) Change the account your paycheck goes into.
Hold off on the exposure to OMW for a day or two.
This has to be a timed sequence of events.
I really liked that plan. Wait, you mean I do that BEFORE I expose to my W or to OM W? Confused now. I thought OM W was a priority. We haven't even discussed how I should expose to my wife.
But I just found already changed the paycheck of her new job not to go into join account. She's still paying for stuff like phone cards off the joint account.
Frac ~
Post a message to OMW on FB and give her YOUR mobile number with the message that you have important info about her H that you must share with her. Ask her to call you! She'll be more likely to do that than to give you her number.
Greek
Ok, so not much happening today so I'm staying productive and posting another part of my plan.
I really can't figure out how I'm going to get her cellphone or home number. It's REALLY tough to find it anywhere. So the more and more I wonder if the bomb could be dropped via email? It also makes it so much easier for her to see the evidence as it's already attached.
Anyway, I wrote a draft (obviously it's not gong to be in english so pls bear with my grammar)
Hi XXXX
You don't know me but my name is Fracesc.
I'm XXXX's husband. Does that name ring a bell?
We've been married 4 years and we live in XXXX.
Ok, thing is, your husband XXX is an old friend of
hers and they both have been touch on facebook
as of last year.
Unfortunately, XXXX, I hate to be the carrier of bad news
but you deserve to know the truth.
Last month XXXX when she was alone, visiting your hometown,
my W and your H started having an affair.
I'm sorry that you have to read this from me.
It's also ok if you don't believe me.
In the beginning I was in denial too. I used to caught her telling
lies saying she was going to be with X friend when she wasn't and
she wouldn't stop getting TXT messages from your H on her mobile.
Maybe I was a bit suspicious but in the end I'd say,
they're just very good friends and let it pass.
It wasn't until I armed myself with courage and started monitoring
my wife's emails that my fears were confirmed.
Emails, chatroom transcripts, flowers that your H sent to my wife pretending
to be from a girlfriend of hers, etc
it was tough but it was better than living in a lie.
I don't expect you to believe me. Yo have every right to stand behind
your spouse. I did the same for mine until I saw the evidence I'm
sharing with you today.
I'm not going to lie to you, it's tough reading through those messages.
But you need to be really strong and read this because HE WILL TRY
TO DENY EVERYTHING.
That's why it's crucial that you read the evidence. There are many things,
facts, names, that will give you strong clues about this documents authenticity.
Look at every detail and be convinced.
You have to be strong XXX. Ask him which jacket is he planning to send my wife with her friend XXX in a few days? Ask him why in one of their chats my wife says she was wearing his shirt at one point?
Remember that after all THIS is the man who is promising my wife to leave you and your two children to come and pursue here in XXX. He's already planning a visit, ask him about this.
Without doubt this the hardest email I've written in my life but I still think that
we both deserve better than lies.
After all, the truth is the only way to move forward.
F
Frac ~
Post a message to OMW on FB and give her YOUR mobile number with the message that you have important info about her H that you must share with her. Ask her to call you! She'll be more likely to do that than to give you her number.
Greek
I live in a different country and continent. She won't be calling me, would she?
Or maybe she would? Interesting proposition.
Frac,
If I got that message, I would make that call in a NY minute.
Greek
I like that approach man. Really, really considering it.
Let me tell you that my only hiccup is that she's not a very active FB user.
I think she only had used it once this month. So it might be too late when
she get the message.
Again, her sister seems very active but not too sure if its a good idea to involve her.
But again, I really bet she'd call. OM says his life at home has been a living hell lately (midlife crisis, he's 50+) so that might be enough to spur her on.
But then: how you show the evidence on the phone? you ask her for her email?
I'd use my real name, right?
You will not know until you try. This might be The Day she checks FB. I don't know about involving the sister. It isn't totally out of the question. You could FB message the sister something like "I need to get in touch with (OMW's name). Would you please ask her to check her FB acct? Thx." That way you're alerting OMW to the message w/o spilling the beans all over the place.
Greek
Yes, use your real name. YOU have nothing to hide.
Greek
Good call. I definitely will be doing that when the plan is all set to go.
Thanks so much. Great suggestion.
What do you think about my little speech? Too direct? Too long?
Will she be able to take it?
How does my tone of voice needs to be?
Apologetic? Serious? Sensible? Reassuring?
I need not scare her off. She's going t be my partner in this.
Oh and she'll [censored] hate my wife's guts thats for sure, right?
But she'll empathize with me.
You have to be strong XXX. Ask him which jacket is he planning to send my wife with her friend XXX in a few days? Ask him why in one of their chats my wife says she was wearing his shirt at one point? Why is she sending my wife emails with mp3 songs with titles as "The perfection of your body"?
Remember that after all THIS is the man who is promising my wife to leave you and your two children to come and pursue here in XXX. He's already planning a visit, ask him about this.
Without doubt this the hardest email I've written in my life but I still think that
we both deserve better than lies.
After all, the truth is the only way to move forward.
F
Little ammend.
I would send a brief private message to her first, being upfront about who you are and why you are writing. Don't be too cryptic, as she might ignore you. (Lots of random weirdo guys send messages to women on facebook). On the other hand, wait until she responds to you to give her the details about your evidence. You could just send the first 5 paragraphs of your draft and add that you have evidence if she would like to know more. Do give her your phone number.
It wouldn't hurt to try to reach her on facebook. There is an option to be immediately notified of FB messages in your regular email, so if she has set it up that way, she may get your message even if she doesn't check FB often.
I don't know about telling her "Ask him about this". Hopefully the exposure pros will weigh in here, but seems to me that rather than "ask" about it, once you have the evidence, to say "I know all about your affair"
Sounds good to me. Do you think in that first approach I should ask her to keep this from her husband for now? (the fact that I contacted her the first time).
I hear you on the Ask thing. I was trying to make it look as if the evidence is really punctual, not just I love you, kiss, kiss. But actual details of both of them, their lifes, they complain about her and me, again, very specific things. But I also I agree that's like giving her a script and she might not need one. She'll be pretty inspired to rant on her own maybe.
Now all I need is actual info on how to put together the 'package'. I have mostly emails and screen grabs I had some pictures of them having dinner (but I've miss placed my usb stick during the move! But anyway, the evidence in writing/email is far convincing I think. It was to me at least and i was on denial.
Then I'd also would like to know the actual sequence of events. Because most of the stuff (cancelling phone line, changing my paycheck to my personal account, etc) do take at least 3 to 4 days. And if they need to be synchronized
I need to act soon. (new phone bill starts after 31 March).
There's also this whole debate about the money. We've always said we'd take half and half. But apparently there's an interesting theory about me taking it all for the time being (not forever) as a security caution. My only worry with that is that her family will become incredibly upset at me and might even bring lawyers to this. I can't afford to lose her family. I need them to be on my side if anything.
Why didn't you add in your message...
"My wife and your husband are planning on being together.
He told my wife that you know about this and that he doesn't love you and is only staying for the kids, but will be telling you soon so that they can be together forever"???? Are you aware of this stuff going on with your husband and my wife?
NOW is the time to tell it All... This is the dropping of the BOMB...... If you leave anything out ou will be wasting an opportunity to blow this wide open. If you don't tell it all now, then you give the husband a chance to lie and spin it in his favor......
ALL the facts that you know. Send them all.
The reason I suggested you send a message with the basics and ask her to reply or call for details, is the 10% chance you deem that this person is NOT OM's wife and/or the chance that OM has access to her email and/or FB account. I guess you would have to consider what, if any, the harm in sending the whole enchilada the first time could be. I would want her to have everything.
Do you think in that first approach I should ask her to keep this from her husband for now? (the fact that I contacted her the first time).
You can ask, and suggest that it might be in her be in her best interest to think and plan first, but once she has the info, be prepared for anything. Many people go off without thinking and confront immediately
Nope.
Give 'em both barrels.
This needs to be a BIG BANG!!
Not a sad, strung out little whimper.
And I assure you this is her on FB. Even if it isn't, so?
Oh, and copy a message to her sister as well.
I was JUST going to say that Kimmie...
Copy her sister as well.....
Fracesc, tell us more about this Law of attraction forum your wife is into. I am interested in what they have been saying to her.
btw. and probably why I harped on you to get out of the house and stop thinking about her, is my wife got interested in some new-age religons and the like. Still is to some extent. Totally freaked me out and her behavior led to the me just giving up. It wasnt until she realized I couldnt care less any more and had given up that she turned about face and questioned what she had lost.
The sooner the better.
Fracesc, tell us more about this Law of attraction forum your wife is into. I am interested in what they have been saying to her.
btw. and probably why I harped on you to get out of the house and stop thinking about her, is my wife got interested in some new-age religons and the like. Still is to some extent. Totally freaked me out and her behavior led to the me just giving up. It wasnt until she realized I couldnt care less any more and had given up that she turned about face and questioned what she had lost.
The sooner the better.
there's gold in those words, hope you guys are paying attention ;-)
I am paying attention. Just didn;t get any sleep last night so I had a long nap. It helped
I'm compilling all your advice, collecting all of my thoughts and also Gnosis was kind enough to help me understand what this is all about and the options on how to proceed.
Truly enlightening and it's been challenging my common sense which I am now COMPLETELY SURE, HASN'T WORK because this isn't about logic.
i will be posting a rough plan later today. And a few questions.
Thanks again, all of you for your support.
I won't be able to pull this off with out you.
I am completely alone in this city.
Love and Respect
F
Gucci,
Haven't sent any msg yet. But I need to time this right.
I know what you mean about letting the full shock come to OM W all at once but FB direct message can only be short and quick. I can't attach any evidence. Like photos, emails, chat logs, etc. This needs to happen via email and if I make her curious enough, she might just give to me. I also can provide my mobile phone number but still evidence needs to be shared via email in this case.
More questions about this on my Plan's draft Later today.
Thanks Gucci!
[quote=Steve McQueen]Fracesc, tell us more about this Law of attraction forum your wife is into. I am interested in what they have been saying to her.. [/b]
This is her UBBER spiritual leader. All the info should be there. If I'd sum up everything in one sentence "You should be happy no matter what. How joyful YOU feel about things determined if you're on the right track. Be selfish. Be responsible for your own happiness and you'll be fine"
She's had 3 years of that brainwash.
And I hear you, Steve. Maybe I gave that impression in the beginning on my first post but believe me, I'm discerning enough to let her go when time is right. Just not with a married 50 yo guy with wife and two kids. I'm doing this to protect my marriage and stop her from screwing her life as her best friend did. I owe that much to her. I still care about her well being and right now, THIS, what I'm doing with your support is the best chance I have to do exactly that.
But don't worry, not holding to anything here. Specially now.
Nope.
Give 'em both barrels.
This needs to be a BIG BANG!!
Not a sad, strung out little whimper.
And I assure you this is her on FB. Even if it isn't, so?
Oh, and copy a message to her sister as well.
Sorry K, can you clarify on the two barrells? who do you mean by 'em? the "happy couple"?
You suggest that I copy the sis with the EXACT msg?
"Your husband XXXX and my wife XXXX have been unfaithful to us. Look her up, she's a friend of him here on FB. Those flowers on her FB profile were sent by him to her. Your H been telling my W that he doens't love you and he's just staying for the kids but he'll leave them soon to come with her to XXXX. Are you aware of this? I know this will be hard to believe but I do have hard evidence if you're willing to know the truth. You deserve it. Contact me: (phone number + email address)."
To the sister I was thinking of saying "I have something very important to tell your sister XXXX. She doens't know me but It's crucial that she checks her FB account today. Pls let her know this"
"Both barrels" means you fire both barrels of a double-barreled shotgun. In fact, I would use a sawed-off shotgun!
What can I say? It may not translate well across the pond.
On second thought, think, "Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels."
One of my faves!
[quote=Steve McQueen]Fracesc, tell us more about this Law of attraction forum your wife is into. I am interested in what they have been saying to her.. [/b]
This is her UBBER spiritual leader. All the info should be there. If I'd sum up everything in one sentence "You should be happy no matter what. How joyful YOU feel about things determined if you're on the right track. Be selfish. Be responsible for your own happiness and you'll be fine"
She's had 3 years of that brainwash.
And I hear you, Steve. Maybe I gave that impression in the beginning on my first post but believe me, I'm discerning enough to let her go when time is right. Just not with a married 50 yo guy with wife and two kids. I'm doing this to protect my marriage and stop her from screwing her life as her best friend did. I owe that much to her. I still care about her well being and right now, THIS, what I'm doing with your support is the best chance I have to do exactly that.
But don't worry, not holding to anything here. Specially now.
Even on these forums, people misinterpret the information and advice given so I'm not surprised to hear this happened to your wife on that other forum.
People should be responsible for their own happiness, I believe in that, I also believe in being selfish but look at the word "selfish" before you give it a bad meaning, "self" -ish, I love me and being me, that means I'm selfish, I love my self, it doesn't mean steal from others or take advantage of others or do bad things to other people to gain in profit for yourself at the expense of others, it means take care of yourself. This is where your wife and I'm assuming countless others make their mistakes.
And as far as you being
discerning enough to let her go when the time is right but not with a married 50 year old guy sounds controlling, she's making her decision to do what she wants and she's in her WAW fog, I'll grant you that, but in the end you can only control you, not her.
Hmmm....well, now you have a good comeback for her. Tell her it "makes you happy" to take steps to save your marriage, once you expose her and her A.
Bwahahahahaaaa!!!
Ok, jk. Sort of....
And as far as you being discerning enough to let her go when the time is right but not with a married 50 year old guy sounds controlling, she's making her decision to do what she wants and she's in her WAW fog, I'll grant you that, but in the end you can only control you, not her.
Really interesting.... because I've been asking myself what's my motivation for doing this now? I don't even know if I'm ever going to get over the cheating, sex involved, etc It hurts a lot. Dunno if I can ever trust her again.
But I would love to gain some focus here. Why am I doing this? I care about her and is in her best interest sounds kind but kindness has only brought me to this stage. All I know is I don't want to see her throwing her life to the shitter.
I could easily turn and walk away from this. I don't feel any guilt. My life could just restart, I'm rediscovering this "new me" I had forgotten and I love it. She's with a married man? So be it, it's her life, not mine.
But I'm still willing to go through this s-storm for her even that in the end we don't end up together. Why?
Hmmm....well, now you have a good comeback for her. Tell her it "makes you happy" to take steps to save your marriage, once you expose her and her A.
Bwahahahahaaaa!!!
Ok, jk. Sort of....
sounds great, thanks k
Wife just texted.
"You didn't call as you said. Are you ok?"
First time in more than 1 month she asks "are you ok?"
She never asked that even when I was at the doctors
after she dropped the bomb.
Haven't replied or intend to just passing you intel.
Ok, this is the plan I've put together with Gnosis, Gucci's, Kim and all of you guys kind advice. Long post, really sorry. I tried to break it down so it's easier to read. Need to get some work done so I won't be checking the thread for the next 5 hours but do pls reply. I need all the strength and wisdom I can gather.
EXPOSING PLAN
WHEN?
FRIDAY 26 MARCH EVENING
Why?
- Surprise factor: W expects to have the "final chat" with me on Sat. So it's me calling the shots there. I DECIDE WHEN WE TALK, NOT YOU.
- Shock factor" W will be tired after work, long commute, etc she'd have plans to meet OM who will "give her strenght" to dump me the next day.
- Time difference can play on my favour. By the time she knows. OM will be at work, won't be able to take her call even if she tries to contact him.
- OM will be confident that he'll be able to offer comfort once he's home but he'll find his W whose already been exposed to the affair.
-
HOW?
SEQUENCE
1/2 Hrs prior exposing W: take all the money off the joint account and put it into mine.
1. Expose W (Public place, far from home so she has to take the subway and won't be able to communicate with anyone then would come home to find phone line has been taken down)
2. Expose Family.
- Expose to Father in Law, he's more likely to be supportive and not take her daughter's side.
- Then mother.
- Then Sister (she'll be shocked and she'll hesitate but side with my W. She can be crucial as she could be my INTEL after this is over.)
- Then cousin and his partner (they're our only family where we live and have helped us both a lot. Both well off and are very litigious. They love her so much. I need to be care on how I approach them. They like me. I just need to find out how much they're willing to trust me.
(I NEED TO WORK OUT A "SPEECH" FOR EACH OF THEM, WORDS WILL BE CRUCIAL HERE SO THEY DON'T THINK I'M JUST BITTER AND WANT TO PUNISH HER. WORKING ON THAT DRAFT)
3. Expose OM W:
Time zone difference will play in my favour in here as they are 6 hours behind us.
- Only thing I need to take care of is that OM W would OPEN the package EXACTLY that day. And I have no way of making sure of that. Timing will be EVERYTHING HERE.
WHAT?
Evidence I have collected:
- A picture of them together taken in February.
- A chat transcript where they talk about OM W, me, Children, that they've been kissing their mouths "accidentally" for awhile. etc and officially starting the affair on March 4. There are suggestions that they have been intimate (he talks a lot about her body)
- Facebook screen grab of she getting flowers and an email from her friend's confirming that it was from OM but she aided him so I wouldn't find it they were from a man.
- Several emails to her BF discussing the relationship e.g. she talks about having webcam talks and how he looks "so in love with her".
- Email screen cap from he to her with the chat transcript.
- Email screen cap with him attaching an mp3 song he composed to her "The perfection of your body"
4. Going back to W place and collect the rest of my belongings, marriage certificate, etc, etc. Not getting into arguments or explaining anything to her.
WHAT I'VE DONE SO FAR
1. Change banking details starting from my paycheck due on 25 March.
2. Requested a meeting with management to ask for them to sponsor me (feeling very positive about this).
3. Requested phone service to be stopped Fri 26 March and not give any notice to the property occupants.
4. Stayed calm, confident, cool... or trying to.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUESTIONS (pls reply using the numbers as reference)
I have specific questions about EACH STAGE of the plan.
WHEN?
1. Is it too rushed? I guess depends how solid the plan looks to you.
2. Phone company can't say what time of the day they'll stop the service. I thought that's why is crucial I do this at the time when OM can't be reached because he's at work. Otherwise should I make them cancel the line on Thursday?
3. There's a risk, phone would stop but broadband would continue. How would this affect the plan?
4. When should I let W know I've decided I want us to chat on friday (she already texted me to ask why I haven't called to arrange the meeting, "are you ok?" she says.
HOW?
EXPOSE TO W
1. Apparently she'll deny everything. Should I confront her with evidence? What exactly?
2. Should I stay cool and calm or be firm and distant or even angry?)
3. What if she actually accepts the whole thing and says it's none of my business since she told me it's over before it happen already? How should I react.
EXPOSE TO FAMILY
This is the hardest step to me, the one that I really can't predict how it'd go. That's why I'm working on a speech. Will post it soon.
1. Since timing is crucial, how can I make sure everyone is reachable? They won't, some of them have jobs, etc. Can exposing to the family be done during the weekend?
2. If I do that during the weekend. I'm expecting the first people she'll ask for help will be her cousin and partner as they're based in this city. She'll try and get them to help her get back online, maybe even to stay with them so she can use broadband and phone.
Does this changes the sequence? Do I need to expose to them first? Mother, Sister and Father they are all based in different locations and won't be able to come her and help her right away.
3. I'm really in good terms with her family. They're all shocked we're splitting but obviously support her. I'm very concerned that they'll think I'm doing this for revenge. I'll explain my reasons but how much of the plan can I tell them. e.g. Can I said to them that I'd look like an [censored] at some point but they have to trust this is a big misdirection I'm throwing her way to shock her back to reality?
I want to avoid conflict with them as much as I can. Can I consider them my allies at some point? I know it's a risky thing but had to ask it but I'm sure NO ONE would approve the affair with a married man with kids.
4. What if family says: Even if she's making a big mistake. Understand that YOUR marriage it's over.You need to let her make her own choices and mistakes. We are her family and will reason with her and make her come back to her senses. It's not your job as a husband anymore because for her you AREN'T ALREADY.
5. Her BF who aided it in this whole thing is flying over and moving with her early next month. Do I need to tell heir family she has been the one aiding the whole thing? She's been in a relationship with a married man with children for 5 years, on and off.
EXPOSE TO OM WIFE
1. Phone or Email? Best way to tell her the whole thing.
2. How much should I disclose with her about how did I get the evidence?
3. Should I encourage her to find more evidence in her home?
4. Apparently OM has been playing alarm clock at 8 am my W. Waking her up every morning to fantasize they're awakening together in the same bed. Should I tell OM W if she's noticed him waking up at 2 am and making calls ? (they're -6 hrs remember).
EVIDENCE
1. I got the evidence because I know her password that's the truth but how honest should I be about that?
2. An alternative is saying I used screen sharing software available on the computer by default. If she finds out, that'd even make her to distrust using the computer cos I might be snooping. Also, that'll prevent her from changing her password.
3. Who needs to actually see evidence? Family will be hesitant to just to take my word for it. They'll ask her and she might deny the whole thing or justify it saying things were over with me anyway. Also she could convince them I violated her privacy and even press charges if they're really angry at me.
MISC/NOTES
1. Really scared about the whole money thing. They'll think I want to ruin her and run away with it. She will make them think that if she's that angry at me after this.
2. Our joint account has a very generous overdraft marging. (aprox 2000 dlls exchange rate) Should I take that as well? Thats taking debt with me but otherwise she'll have that chance of digging into that.
*A note here, money won't be a pressure issue for her as she earns enough to support herself more than well and she's very good at administrating her money.
3. She's started a new job but her initial contract is only 6 months. She'll be underpresure. She can't afford to lose this job.
4. Haven't looked for legal advice. the whole idea this could turn 'Legal' scares me plus I don't think able to afford a lawyer right now... What should I do. Just go for a consultation to begin with? I'd be clueless where to look. I can see all of you already saying I just should do it.... sigh
[quote=robx]
But I'm still willing to go through this s-storm for her even that in the end we don't end up together. Why?
Cos that's what real love is. It's not effortless. It's tough sometimes. You promised to be there in illness or health.. a wise friend told me. I intend to honor that word. Right know she's ill.
I also don't walk away with unresolved issues.
I've noticed that that's what screws people's lives off.
Running away from them. And I won't.
what if ...
she says, this is what I wanted to talk to you about, I found someone else ...
and the OMW, couldnt care because she has one or two on the side also.
What is the plan for Fracesc come Saturday morning and beyond?
If I'd sum up everything in one sentence "You should be happy no matter what. How joyful YOU feel about things determined if you're on the right track. Be selfish. Be responsible for your own happiness and you'll be fine"
Maybe I should start a website. This abraham guy making any money doing this?
Just not with a married 50 yo guy with wife and two kids.
what if it was an 18 yr. old bartender/mediocre student affectionately named 'Zoot'
would that be different?
Steve is Zoot taking one of your classes?
C'mon, be honest, you gave him a D- didn't you.
Hmmm....well, now you have a good comeback for her. Tell her it "makes you happy" to take steps to save your marriage, once you expose her and her A.
Bwahahahahaaaa!!!
Ok, jk. Sort of....
Love this.
But I'm still willing to go through this s-storm for her even that in the end we don't end up together. Why?
Not sure. Maybe because you love her?
My wife asked me the same thing. "Why are you fighting for me so hard, especially after what I've done?" I told her:
1. Because I love you.
2. Because I took our marriage vows seriously; I didn't say "for better or for better YET," I said "for better or for WORSE."
3. Because I don't want to go to my deathbed with regrets, wondering if I should have fought harder. I'd rather err on the opposite side.
4. Because this isn't the message I want to send to our kids -- that it's ok to cut-and-run when things get tough.
5. Because I would hope that if the situation were reversed, and say I had a drinking or a gambling problem, that she would do the same and fight for ME.
Puppy
[quote]
Maybe I should start a website. This abraham guy making any money doing this?
shutloads. It's a woman and her husband. Abraham is the name of the "entity" whatever it means.
This is brilliant. Thanks so much Puppy.
I don't know if anybody's read my plan outline but I've got a few updates:
Checked with a lawyer from this country informally and:
- He STRONGLY recommends not taking all the money from the account. Since I'm the one out who move out taking the money can be easily turned into an abandonment claim if she gets a lawyer with at least half a brain and it'll make the whole fight about the money, not the relationship.
- He STRONGLY adviced taking only 50% of it as if it's a Joint account as I'm entitled to it but not more than that.
- Another advice he gave me was that I could ask a trusted third party or family member to act as a depositary of her half of the money. This is standard procedure for people who are going through mental problems or depression.
After all this advice, I have to say that I'm strongly leaning towards NOT taking all the money into my account.
I am also wondering if the logic of taking all the money is the right one in this case. Money will not be an issue to her. She's earns more than a lot to support herself and fly to see the guy every 2 months if she really wanted to.
I can agree to secure myself financially. 50% of the money will do that.
Pls, don't think I'm walking away from doing this. Just don't want to make it more complicated than it is already for no reason. Asking for the support of a family member who supports the marriage to hold her half of the money, is that a really bad idea?
Thanks.
what if ...
she says, this is what I wanted to talk to you about, I found someone else ...
and the OMW, couldnt care because she has one or two on the side also.
What is the plan for Fracesc come Saturday morning and beyond?
Actually I was going to post a worst case scenario set of questions, yours are spot on.
Worst case scenarios
- Wife smells something's coming cos i'm not replying to her messages and someone how figures out I know about the affair and tips OM off.
- OM W already knows about the affair, he was honest with her this week and is leaving her. She's ok with that.
- OM W never replies or refuses to play along, she also has an affair.
- Family Exposure can't be done as expected, I can't get hold of some of the family members. Who are my priorities?
- What if someone in the family already knows?
- What if W gets depressed and tries to hurt herself?
- W trusted me information that would potentially cause her a big problem with her BF (the one aiding her in the affair). Should I use this?
Their background
W Mother= Single. Divorced when W was 13 yo. After marriage difficulties she cheated on husband maybe even more than once. I doubt it but since this is WORST case scenario, I'll ask here: What if she already knows and respects her daugther's decisions? W and OM refer to being "hiding from her" at some point. Big problems with money. She'll resent me if I make this a money issue.
W Father= Divorced 2 times. After W's Mother, divorced because his ex wife was abusing him, she was Bipolar. In a relationship. He's very wise and nice person. I can't he see him agreeing in what his daughter is doing.
W Sister= Older. Early 40s. Single. Unstable relationships but never with married men. Recovering from a long relationship that ended amicably (she wanted to have children, boyfriend didn't). They are very close but W hasn't told her about the affair definitely.
Cousin/Cousin's Partner= Gay couple. 30 and 50 yo. Stable couple, well off financially. They're only ones in the family based where we live. They helped us get a place, etc. My guess is that they will instinctively protect W but they also have much appreciation for me and will definitely respect my move if I can convince them of the affair. If I'm not successful in convincing them and took all the money, they will definitely help her sue me for all I've got. They can afford the best lawyers.
EXPOSING PLAN
WHEN?
FRIDAY 26 MARCH EVENING
Why?
- Surprise factor: W expects to have the "final chat" with me on Sat. So it's me calling the shots there. I DECIDE WHEN WE TALK, NOT YOU.
- Shock factor" W will be tired after work, long commute, etc she'd have plans to meet OM who will "give her strenght" to dump me the next day.
- Time difference can play on my favour. By the time she knows. OM will be at work, won't be able to take her call even if she tries to contact him.
- OM will be confident that he'll be able to offer comfort once he's home but he'll find his W whose already been exposed to the affair.
-
HOW?
SEQUENCE
1/2 Hrs prior exposing W: take all the money off the joint account and put it into mine.
1. Expose W (Public place, far from home so she has to take the subway and won't be able to communicate with anyone then would come home to find phone line has been taken down)
2. Expose Family.
- Expose to Father in Law, he's more likely to be supportive and not take her daughter's side.
- Then mother.
- Then Sister (she'll be shocked and she'll hesitate but side with my W. She can be crucial as she could be my INTEL after this is over.)
- Then cousin and his partner (they're our only family where we live and have helped us both a lot. Both well off and are very litigious. They love her so much. I need to be care on how I approach them. They like me. I just need to find out how much they're willing to trust me.
(I NEED TO WORK OUT A "SPEECH" FOR EACH OF THEM, WORDS WILL BE CRUCIAL HERE SO THEY DON'T THINK I'M JUST BITTER AND WANT TO PUNISH HER. WORKING ON THAT DRAFT)
3. Expose OM W:
Time zone difference will play in my favour in here as they are 6 hours behind us.
- Only thing I need to take care of is that OM W would OPEN the package EXACTLY that day. And I have no way of making sure of that. Timing will be EVERYTHING HERE.
Seems to me that communicating with OM W ought to be the first thing you do. Then you will know whether she cares and what she intends to do. Because she may not check FB that often, I agree that it would be good to send the same message to her sister.
I agree with Dudess but I'll add another point,
if you're contacting your wife's parents to get them to side with you on this, don't bother, it never works out that way, they will always side with her before they side with you. That's their kid and you're just the son-in-law, you will usually always lose in that situation.
Contact the OM's wife and her sister first and leave it at that and wait for the reply back. Even if the OM's wife is planning to leave him, this will still add ammunition to whatever plan she has in store for him.
Go for it.
I agree with Dudess but I'll add another point,
if you're contacting your wife's parents to get them to side with you on this, don't bother, it never works out that way, they will always side with her before they side with you. That's their kid and you're just the son-in-law, you will usually always lose in that situation.
Contact the OM's wife and her sister first and leave it at that and wait for the reply back. Even if the OM's wife is planning to leave him, this will still add ammunition to whatever plan she has in store for him.
Go for it.
I was hoping that her father at least would understand as he was cheated on by my W's mother. Also thought, even if they love her, nobody could ever agree that being involved with a 50 yo man with kids and a wife is the best thing for their kid. But I do respect your advice and I hear you. Any other opinions?
About contacting the OM W and sister. So should the sister know about the affair at the same time as the OM W? At the same level of detail? Should I do that ASAP ? Or wait until later in the week?
If OM W spills the beans before time, she'll confront OM and might tip off W that I know already.
The wheels are in motion, anyway. Phone service will stop on Friday unless I cancel that.
I agree with Dudess but I'll add another point,
if you're contacting your wife's parents to get them to side with you on this, don't bother, it never works out that way, they will always side with her before they side with you. That's their kid and you're just the son-in-law, you will usually always lose in that situation.
Contact the OM's wife and her sister first and leave it at that and wait for the reply back. Even if the OM's wife is planning to leave him, this will still add ammunition to whatever plan she has in store for him.
Go for it.
Don't want them to side with me but at least be neutral. Again, this is like being with a drug addict, she's addicted. I was hoping that her father at least would understand as he was cheated on by my W's mother. Also thought, even if they love her, nobody could ever agree that being involved with a 50 yo man with kids and a wife is the best thing for their kid. But I do respect your advice and I hear you. Should I then, not expose to family then? That'll give her a chance to tell the story as she pleases. Any other opinions?
About contacting the OM W and sister. So should the sister know about the affair at the same time as the OM W? At the same level of detail? Should I do that ASAP ? Or wait until later in the week?
If OM W spills the beans before time, she'll confront OM and might tip off W that I know already.
The wheels are in motion, anyway. Phone service will stop on Friday unless I cancel that.
About contacting the OM W and sister. So should the sister know about the affair at the same time as the OM W? At the same level of detail? Should I do that ASAP ? Or wait until later in the week?
If OM W spills the beans before time, she'll confront OM and might tip off W that I know already.
I would send the exact same message to OM W & her sister, and sooner, rather than later.
I also agree with robx (when we agree, there must be something to it
) about the family thing. Doing it in the way you have planned, could make you look kinda bad actually.
IMO, your best bet is if the OM is stringing your W along and has no intention of leaving his wife, and changes his tune when she find out. "Exposing" to your W isn't a big deal because she is planning to tell you anyway, and has practically been shouting it out on her FB status messages anyhow.
I would send the exact same message to OM W & her sister, and sooner, rather than later.
I also agree with robx (when we agree, there must be something to it
) about the family thing. Doing it in the way you have planned, could make you look kinda bad actually.
IMO, your best bet is if the OM is stringing your W along and has no intention of leaving his wife, and changes his tune when she find out. "Exposing" to your W isn't a big deal because she is planning to tell you anyway, and has practically been shouting it out on her FB status messages anyhow.
Ok, so in your opinion I shouldn't involve family at this point. Ok? If I don't then taking half the money won't be a problem. If I take all of the money and don't tell her family, I'll be in SO MUCH trouble and I seriously think it's not worth it. They'll think I'm a resented thief and will never care if they is or was an affair.
Secondly, I need some clarification then on timings.
1. Contact OM W and her sister. Today or tomorrow. As a first approach. Then offer to show evidence in 24 hrs. ? (I'll post the message here before sending it)
2. This changes exposing wife on Thursday or Friday then? Still needs to be synchronized, right? Previously I've taken 50% of the money into my personal account. And stopped the phone.
3. Not exposing to family (for now?)
Haven't had a chance to catch up on everything posted yet. About the money... this is why I told you to get legal advice. Follow the legal advice above the advice with respect to the financial matters. This is why you have a L.
Will proceed as adviced then and will keep that in mind. thanks.
I would also really like to know what's your input in all this Gucci. If you have the time of course.
Guys, I don't want to be a pain in the ass but as you can see I'm still learning from the process and I don't want to f'up (at least too much) so I'm trying to get as much info before I proceed.
I'll be doing the same for each step of the process. I do need a Compass. Thanks for providing me with one.
Ok here's the draft for the OM W message on facebook.
"Your husband XXXX and my wife XXXX have been unfaithful to us for the past month. Your H been telling my W that he doens't love you and he's just staying for the kids but he'll leave you soon to come with her to XXXX. Are you aware of this? I know it's hard to read this but I assure you I do have solid evidence if you're willing to know the truth. You deserve it. Don't confront your H know yet, until you have evidence in your hands. Contact me ( email address)."
To the sister same message with this intro "Sorry to involve you in this but it's CRUCIAL that you pass XXXX this message (above message)"
Suppose I send this today so tomorrow I should have an email message or facebook reply with the answer.
That'd mean I'd have to send evidence immediately. Otherwise she'll get too anxious and confront the OM without solid evidence and he'll lie his way around it, she'll say it was me and he'll tell my W I know. Game over.
If things go ok and she gets the evidence and expose OM.
Then what? It does needs to be synchronized with me exposing to my W, taking the money out of the bank, canceling phone line (that's in motion), etc
Right?
I also need an opinion for worst case scenario to be prepared, pls.
[quote]
I also agree with robx (when we agree, there must be something to it
) about the family thing. Doing it in the way you have planned, could make you look kinda bad actually.
I'm really interested in finding more about this. Why would I look bad? Is she having the affair, not me. I do need to let the family know at some point, don't I? Otherwise I'm just a bitter a-hole to them. Again, just trying to learn. Pls share your thoughts.
Would also really interested to know your opinion on how to proceed here, Puppy.
Thanks.
The only reason I suggested maybe not to send everything you know immediately was your uncertainty if this was really OM W, and/or the possibility that he might have access to her account and get it first. Now, if you are sure that the sister IS the sister, that gets around that problem.
If that is the case, why not send all you can by FB, (don't say anything about 24 hours, sounds too weird, I would get suspicious of YOU if someone said that to me.) Then give your email and telephone. BTW, ASK her not to say anything yet, rather than tell her. You can only persuade, it's up to her what she does.
IMO, your next best moves will be greatly impacted by what OM W does, and OM's willingness to lose his wife. It's good to have an idea of what you will do in various scenarios, but once you have more info, the situation, and your actions will become clearer.
It shouldn't be a problem if you go ahead and take half the $ now. She stopped putting her check in there and taking your 1/2 of the funds isn't so weird given that you are separated.
The idea of depositing her 1/2 with a family member, I would get a second opinion about. In the US that would be a conservatorship, which you get by court order when someone is so mentally incapacitated that they cannot handle their money, not for folks who are merely depressed or in an affair/Abraham Hicks fog.
Who knows, maybe you won't have to say anything to her family. Best case scenario, OM dumps your wife when his W finds out and your W comes crawling back to you. I wouldn't see the point in telling family in that situation.
[quote=Dudess]
I also agree with robx (when we agree, there must be something to it
) about the family thing. Doing it in the way you have planned, could make you look kinda bad actually.
I'm really interested in finding more about this. Why would I look bad? Is she having the affair, not me. I do need to let the family know at some point, don't I? Otherwise I'm just a bitter a-hole to them. Again, just trying to learn. Pls share your thoughts.
I agree with Dudess but I'll add another point,
if you're contacting your wife's parents to get them to side with you on this, don't bother, it never works out that way, they will always side with her before they side with you. That's their kid and you're just the son-in-law, you will usually always lose in that situation.
Contact the OM's wife and her sister first and leave it at that and wait for the reply back. Even if the OM's wife is planning to leave him, this will still add ammunition to whatever plan she has in store for him.
Go for it.
We gave you the answer, you seem to be looking for an alternate explanation, simple is always best, she's their kid, they may not approve of what she's done, but they will always pick her safety and well being over yours - thinking otherwise is foolish.
The only reason I suggested maybe not to send everything you know immediately was your uncertainty if this was really OM W, and/or the possibility that he might have access to her account and get it first. Now, if you are sure that the sister IS the sister, that gets around that problem.
I'm not 100% sure yet but I'm willing to take my chances. If she isn't then, she'll just reply. Wrong girl. No harm. It was only relevant if the OM W is the LAST one I expose to.
I do agree that I need to see if she wants to play ball first. That's why I thought of the 24 hrs period but I see your point, it looks as if I didn't have anything and was buying time to find something.
What I could do is send ONE picture of them together. She'll want to find more and sen't me an email.
What I'm not too sure to do is sending EVERYTHING through facebook in the FIRST contact.
If I give her all of the evidence she'll confront OM right away and he'll tip off my W. I lost the surprise factor. Remember she's thinking she's dumping me next Saturday? I think it's important she still believes this when we meet. Thursday or Friday. It'll be a bigger shock. Plus no phone to call OM. And work next day.
This is why the biggest doubt in my head right now, is if exposing to my W comes later or first. Lots of mixed opinions on this matter all over the board.
We gave you the answer, you seem to be looking for an alternate explanation, simple is always best, she's their kid, they may not approve of what she's done, but they will always pick her safety and well being over yours - thinking otherwise is foolish.
Not trying to find an alternate explanation. Again, trying to learn the reasons behind that so I can take a proper decision. Pls don't think i'm ignoring your advice. I value it infinitely.
I agree with that about her parents wanting to protect her. But then what? should I keep this affair to myself? For her family, this marriage ended because of me and she's a victim. They're all comforting her right now.
She's getting strength off this emotional support from them to keep doing what she's doing. But she's also deceiving them.
If she was a drug addict. they'd appreciate me telling them.
Again, pls. It doesn't mean I won't take in your advice. I already did. I'm asking so I can understand this clearly. Not only what I do but what I won't and why.
Trying to learn, seriously.
Ok here's the draft for the OM W message on facebook.
which meal are you going to wreck, breakfast, lunch or dinner?
Not sure why but starting to feel a bit anxius of my W finding out about me knowing of the A. I haven't replied her txt msg about if "I'm ok?" in 24 hrs. I never do that. So she might be thinking by now that there's something wrong or fishy going on.
I don't mean I want to reply her to make her feel better or because I'm scared, ok? Just want to keep her thinking that she's nothing to worry about and can proceed with the affair.
If she worries, she might think I'm planning something because I never do this. I never go dark on her.
Ok here's the draft for the OM W message on facebook.
which meal are you going to wreck, breakfast, lunch or dinner?
Really good question.
If I do it right now, dinner.
But I'm not too sure. OM W won't be able to sleep and OM will know there's something weird there. Plus don't think she'll hold the info enough time for me to expose to my W.
If I do it tomorrow, breakfast or lunch.
At least she'll be alone. She'll have time to think about this. Reply, get all evidence from me etc while he's at work. Remember, there are children involved I can't be reckless about this.
Remember they're minus 6 hrs behind me, I need to use that in my favour.
[quote=Dudess]The only reason I suggested maybe not to send everything you know immediately was your uncertainty if this was really OM W, and/or the possibility that he might have access to her account and get it first. Now, if you are sure that the sister IS the sister, that gets around that problem.
Well, unless she tips off OM before his W can get your info. That was my concern.
It was only relevant if the OM W is the LAST one I expose to.
IMO, OM W is the FIRST one to tell. Ideal scenario as I see it is:
1. OM W learns of the affair & kicks his butt to the curb.
2. OM doesn't want to lose his wife so cuts contact with your wife.
3. Your W realizes she's been duped and wants you back.
What I could do is send ONE picture of them together. She'll want to find more and sen't me an email.
The pictures you have could be totally innocent. Send all you can and offer to send more via regular email
What I'm not too sure to do is sending EVERYTHING through facebook in the FIRST contact.
If I give her all of the evidence she'll confront OM right away and he'll tip off my W. I lost the surprise factor.
Nothing wrong with your W finding out through OM. Better really I think.
OM: "Sorry dear but my wife knows"
Your W: "but I thought you said you were leaving her?"
OM: "I can't do that to my kid, blah, blah, blah"
She will be surprised, not matter how she finds out.
This is why the biggest doubt in my head right now, is if exposing to my W comes later or first. Lots of mixed opinions on this matter all over the board.
Maybe some convos in the alt? I haven't seen anyone on DB saying anything but get to OM W first.
Remember, your W doesn't really care if you know. She is planning to tell you.
What we don't know, is whether OM is lying to your W about his intentions. That is what you need to know to properly plan what to do next.
What if he's not lying to her about his intentions? Does it change the fact that he lied to his wife and slept with mine less than two weeks ago?
My W has told OM she ACCEPTS him with a wife and kids this is the perfect situation for him. Before this affair, last time he saw my wife was 20 years ago, he was her school teacher. Is he going to change his kids for her?
Also, she lives thousands of mines away from him so they can't even get together if OM does decide to leave OM W.
I've been told most man lie to their mistresses about leaving.
My W BF is one of the mistresses that has been told the same bs for 4 years and believed it.
Maybe some convos in the alt?
Sorry, don't quite get that.
Remember, your W doesn't really care if you know. She is planning to tell you.
Is she? I think she still thinks she will get away with making me the reason this marriage is over. Remember that when I confronted her last time about seeing other people she said "No, I dont want us to see other people while we are separated this month". Denial.
I still think I lose a big opportunity to change her game and create a bigger crisis on her buttlerfly world if I anticipate her move.
What if, what if, what if... Frac! You WHAT IF a lot. There is just so much that cannot be predicted. That is why it is ESSENTIAL that you:
- Do the right thing (which outshines any what if you can conjure up)
and
- Do the Good Work on yourself so when a what if does happen, you are still A-OK...the same confident, strong and honorable man you were no matter which way it goes.
Greek
What if, what if, what if... Frac! You WHAT IF a lot. There is just so much that cannot be predicted. That is why is is ESSENTIAL that you:
- Do the right thing (which outshines any what if you can conjure up)
Yes, and I'm sorry if I look desperate. What I am is trying to figure out different scenarios. I want to be prepared for this.
As you said, do the right thing. But right now, what was the right thing for my instincts which was be civil, loving, give her space, trust her, etc FAILED miserably. And I swear to you that was the right thing to do in my heart!
I don't think you look desperate. You look hurt, scared, mad, confused...all completely understandable.
I just wanted to remind you that some of your energy at this time must be alloted to FRAC! You are burning so many calories about HER - what she's doing, what she's going to do, what she did...
TLC is in order for YOU. You have to do more than BRACE yourself for what she'll do (or not do). You need to GROW - really look at where you are, how you got there and what you'll do to IMPROVE YOUR LIFE - with a woman as your wife or not.
See?
Greek
What if he's not lying to her about his intentions? Does it change the fact that he lied to his wife and slept with mine less than two weeks ago?
My W has told OM she ACCEPTS him with a wife and kids this is the perfect situation for him. Before this affair, last time he saw my wife was 20 years ago, he was her school teacher. Is he going to change his kids for her?
Also, she lives thousands of mines away from him so they can't even get together if OM does decide to leave OM W.
I've been told most man lie to their mistresses about leaving.
My W BF is one of the mistresses that has been told the same bs for 4 years and believed it.
Do you not see that if his W finds out he MAY drop your wife?
That is the hope, and that is what you need to find out,
first before trying to micro-plan every single movement.
TLC is in order for YOU. You have to do more than BRACE yourself for what she'll do (or not do). You need to GROW - really look at where you are, how you got there and what you'll do to IMPROVE YOUR LIFE - with a woman as your wife or not.
Point taken and I can assure you, I was on my track to do that. I made my peace with losing her and was working to detach from her. Then, I found out about the affair. But now I can't walk so easily away from this now.
Yes, I'm hurt, but I can't see her throwing her life away if there's ANYTHING I can do to protect her from that I will do it. And if she is DECIDED to do that, she'll do it, whether me, family, OM W knows, etc. but they're both hiding this from everyone, and she's being manipulated by a 50 yo man that knew how to read her for months and then took advantage, as easy as that.
Pls understand that I WANT TO MOVE ON.
I want these wheels to start moving so I can move on with life but I'm stuck right now! I can't decide what's best.
Remember, your W doesn't really care if you know. She is planning to tell you.
Is she? I think she still thinks she will get away with making me the reason this marriage is over.
I still think I lose a big opportunity to change her game and create a bigger crisis on her buttlerfly world if I anticipate her move.
What I should have said is that right now, she doesn't care if she loses you. She is not trying to have you and OM too.
We
don't know if OM is trying to have both your wife and his.
You don't yet know the moves of the other players. You have to set things in motion, and be flexible.
You've probably lost a lot of weight...eat well
Expose to the OMW right away, even if you failed and you contact the wrong OMW. It took me some time (almost 4 months) to find exactly the OMW ID and confirmed her ID on FB. She never replied back, her 20 yo son did. He told me he will tell his mom right away She never did, but at least I was able to change/end the affair. That was about one year ago. Everything turned around for good. The OM didn't want to lose his family and kids. I even exposed to his boss, the District manager for a local major supermarket chain where the OM works.
I wish the best for you. The chances are higher than 50% the affair will "crash" after telling the OMW.
I wish the best for you. The chances are higher than 50% the affair will "crash" after telling the OMW.
but you have to make yourself the prize possession. lol. the one you just cant win. and, you need to relate on equal terms. you cannot be the guy so desperate to do anything to have his woman back that he loses himself in the process.
what is this about you not knowing anybody where you live?
what is this about you not knowing anybody where you live?
Well, she has family here, a cousin. Her father and sister are 4 hrs away by plane. I don't have family or close friends living here. Most of my "friends" here I know through her so they're her friends more than mine. Sure, I do have workmates I get along with but maybe just one true friend.
That's the price I paid for throwing myself at work and devoting the rest of my time to her. I felt guilty spending time with other people because I had so little time free that it was all for her.
You've probably lost a lot of weight...eat well
Expose to the OMW right away, even if you failed and you contact the wrong OMW. It took me some time (almost 4 months) to find exactly the OMW ID and confirmed her ID on FB. She never replied back, her 20 yo son did. He told me he will tell his mom right away She never did, but at least I was able to change/end the affair. That was about one year ago. Everything turned around for good. The OM didn't want to lose his family and kids. I even exposed to his boss, the District manager for a local major supermarket chain where the OM works.
I wish the best for you. The chances are higher than 50% the affair will "crash" after telling the OMW.
I've lost 3-4 pounds. Yes. Not feeling hungry, sleeping 3/5 hours if lucky.
My latest plan is to do this in synch (remember we're in different Time Zones)
Friday
4 pm Secure finances.
5 pm (my time). Expose to OM W and OM W sister. Full evidence. (She'll get her by 11 her breakfast her time zone or as soon as the sister arrives to her office)
*I'm hesitant to contacting OM W with too much anticipation as she will spill the beans before time to OM and OM will prevent my W. I do want to be the one Exposing to my W. To take this off my chest. Relief. I won't get that any other way.
6 or 7 pm (my time) Expose to W. In a public space, fairly far from home so that gives time OM W to digest bomb while W gets home and finds phone isn't working. My guess is W will go to a cafe near by with free wi fi.
7-8 pm Expose to W family by phone in this order: Mother, Father, Sister. Try and expose to cousin and his partner in person maybe (she's very likely to ask for their support first since they're here).
8-9 pm Collect the rest of my from apartment. (W will be there and needs to open the door for me)
9 pm on Go dark. (question: even in W's family??)
Let me know what you think.
Pls do feel free to comment on this plan.
Which steps make o don't make sense but PLS try to explain me, WHY they don't make sense. That's the only way I can make an informed decision with out asking myself what if every 2 seconds. If you help me with this it'll help me apply my own judgement and go with that knowing that I'm doing what I THINK it's the best for this situation.
Sorry, if I've been all over the place in the last hours.
I'm trying to collect myself here and stand strong.
W trying to get in touch. This time it's email.
"Even if you have your reasons to not wanting to speak to me, at least tell me if you are all right, it's been 3 days since you said you'd call. I'm worried about you"
It is ok to answer her...
"I am fine. I have a lot going on right now and have been very busy."
THAT is all you should say or convey..
This also means that leaving her alone is working on her... she even knows EXACTLY how many days it has been since you said you would call...
Good job
She contacted YOU...
Everything looks good to me except the part about exposing to your wife. I would let HER call me after she finds out that you exposed to his wife and sister, etc..
You need to prepare yourself for her being very angry.
She will more than likely be throwing everything she can think of at you and blaming you...
STICK to your guns. Be strong.
"I know I haven't been the perfect husband but you are having an affair, so don't blame me for that. That is totally YOUR doing and I am not apologizing for that."
Throw it right back at her. Be firm. Don't get caught in a long conversation. Cut her off after you say your piece and tell her you have to go. Let her be mad. Stay tough.
Frac,
Everything looks good to me except the part about exposing to your wife. I would let HER call me after she finds out that you exposed to his wife and sister, etc..
I agree with the above BECAUSE OF THIS:
"I know I haven't been the perfect husband but you are having an affair, so don't blame me for that. That is totally YOUR doing and I am not apologizing for that."
You save a trip to meet with her and use less words that could trip you up in the future. The less you say to her the better.
Sorry, I haven't replied. I've been concentrating on work. It helps.
But thank you so much, guys.
Great, great feedback. Feeling really confident I can go through this.
I'm having a meeting with the company director who I have a very good relationship. He's been really kind and concerned for my well being in the past. I'm asking him if the company would be willing to sponsor me in the event that my W takes my residence card away.
I'll reshape the the plan accordingly and post it.
Frac,
Everything looks good to me except the part about exposing to your wife. I would let HER call me after she finds out that you exposed to his wife and sister, etc..
I agree with the above BECAUSE OF THIS:
"I know I haven't been the perfect husband but you are having an affair, so don't blame me for that. That is totally YOUR doing and I am not apologizing for that."
You save a trip to meet with her and use less words that could trip you up in the future. The less you say to her the better.
Agree with this. Now is the time of little words and lots of action. And never ever say sorry to anyone for what your doing. What you are doing is right.
Everything looks good to me except the part about exposing to your wife. I would let HER call me after she finds out that you exposed to his wife and sister, etc..
I'd still expose to her family, even if I don't expose to her right?
If she's that mad she'll probably just call me, won't want me to come over.
so, what about the things I left behind at the appartment, should I expect her to burn them?
Yes expose to the family.
Yes she will be angry
Yes she will call you.
Yes you will state you are doing this to save the marriage. Tough love. Regain respect.
You will not apologize or say sorry
Thank you very much, chatterbug.
Again, incredibly helpful.
I need to work on speech to family. AND WHEN? After wife calls me?
Update on visa:
Work's top man told me the company will stand 100% behind me. The gears to sponsor me have been set into motion. Even if it takes time, they'll find a way to keep me employed either remotely, online, etc.
They said they'll understand if I need to take days off, etc.
Really really supportive.
One more thing off the list.
Relief.
UPDATED PLAN (V3)
Friday 26 March
1. Secure finances.
2. Expose to OM W and OM W sister. Full evidence, offer to stay in touch by email. for more. (She'll get her by 11 her breakfast her time zone or as soon as the sister arrives to her office)
3. Wait.
Friday afternoon or Saturday Morning (hopefully)
(phone has been cancelled)
4. Wife calls me and lets me have it. I reply cool, calm, and hang up.*
5. Expose family. Father, Mother, sister, cousins**
6. Go dark ****
Questions.
----------------------------------
* How can I make sure my W is "safe". Not hurt herself, etc when I'm going dark.
** Waiting for W to call changes the sequence. Is exposing the family last then? Not sure. W could have already played "victim" with them.
*** Should I then consider I lost whatever I left in the apartment? Anyway I could get something back? e.g. making an excuse and go there before friday.
**** forever?
Thanks.
One thing I forgot to add.
W's best friend (the one aiding her in all this and with his own affair baggage) is moving in to the country with my wife in 2 weeks.
It's just intel, can I use this in my favour? i.e. when exposing to family?
* How can I make sure my W is "safe". Not hurt herself, etc when I'm going dark.
You cannot. But when you expose to family and any really close friends you say to them to take care of her as they are friends of the marriage and you cannot.
Plus you expose quickly.... We are talking 10 minutes... Tops... I actually went to the In laws and had tea and cried and explained it to them in detail after the initial exposure
Plus you expose quickly.... We are talking 10 minutes... Tops... I actually went to the In laws and had tea and cried and explained it to them in detail after the initial exposure
That's exactly why timing is crucial so, exposing to Family needs to be done immediately after my W calls me and lets me have it, right?
On the phone 10 min tops with the bare minimum details to the Family and then offer to discuss things in detail later? Is that what you did with your in laws?
Thanks!
**** Slight concern *****
Wife sent an email from a different email address she mostly uses for work.
I don't know the pass for that. And activity on her other email address has been lower that usual. Specially about discussing OM. She hasn't changed any passwords.
Should I worry about this? Evidence is secured, btw. no risk of deleting, etc.
I'm considering dropping the bomb as soon as tomorrow, Thursday.
Not sure, yet...
Putting together "The package".
It's been really tough going through all this. But what's making me more angry is to learn how the whole affair was aided and almost induced by her best friend. I know that no one can be induced into something they're not prepared to do but she provided every opportunity for them to hide, lie and deceive me and my wife's family.
My W BF thinks she's "paying back" the favour to my W from when BF started her own affair. My W was the only person that wouldn't judge her and respected her decision to have an affair. That made them very close.
Now, she's living the fantasy of thinking that she can make my wife's affair work just the way she'd have wanted HER OWN AFFAIR to work!!!
I have to confess I'm feeling very angry about my W Bestfriend. This is a woman I considered my friend also, We received her in my house with open doors many times and was prepared to receive it here WITHOUT PAYING ANY RENT.
Should I confront her at some point? Remember she's moving in with my wife in 2 weeks. I would like her to leave my wife alone. She has a BIG, BIG, responsability in all this.
I know anger is not the way to resolve anything.
Pls help. Really tempted to expose her BF.
Trying to regain my cool.
Plus you expose quickly.... We are talking 10 minutes... Tops...
Yes to this. You make your statement and leave. You do not wait to listen to whatever lies she has prepared. The same applies to whomever you expose to.
"My W / your daughter/sister is committing adultery with a married man who has two children. She is busy destroying two marriages. I have proof of this. I will be taking out the appropriate measures to protect myself and my marriage. I'm not doing this out of revenge. Please trust me on this. Things will seem crazy over the coming days. I ask that you do not take sides during this time and support our M not the infidelity."
That's it. Not too much information. State the facts and leave. You DO NOT need to over explain and make excuses.
Wife sent an email from a different email address <snip> Should I worry about this?
Yes, you should stop worrying about this. You cannot control her and trying to will drive you crazy. You have your evidence. You have your sanity restored. If you've lost your source of intelligence then you've lost it. At least you know the truth now.
I'm considering dropping the bomb as soon as tomorrow, Thursday.
Can you see that you are panicking? You have a plan, stick to it. What difference is one day going to make in the whole scheme of things? Not much. If you want to step up and move quicker then transfer the money sooner.
But what's making me more angry is to learn how the whole affair was aided and almost induced by her best friend.
<snip>
I have to confess I'm feeling very angry about my W Bestfriend
And what use is this anger? None. One of the valuable lessons you are going to learn through this ordeal is to make CONSTRUCTIVE use of your anger. You're going to learn restraint and self-control. Yes, this sucks. Yes, it's extremely painful. But make the best of the worst.
Should I confront her at some point?
At some point... yes... AFTER you have broken up the affair.
I know anger is not the way to resolve anything. Pls help. Really tempted to expose her BF.
You know this.
What do you hope to achieve by exposing to her BF? Self justification and projecting your anger onto BF.
What will it really achieve? NOTHING.
Frac, everything you do is going to have consequences. It is your job to discern GOOD consequences from BAD ones. Reacting out of anger, hurt and pain hardly ever results in good consequences. This is why you RESPOND. For now your RESPONSE to BF is dead silence. BF is not your friend she is your enemy, treat her accordingly.
Keep doing what you have been doing with everything else: THINK before you ACT. Every ACTION you take has PURPOSE. If the purpose is self-gratification or simply venting your anger then it is pointless. Use that energy constructively in the gym.
Frac,
Additionally: You are suffering from analysis paralysis. I want you to stop doing that. I understand that you are looking for the PERFECT way to do this. I told you a few days ago... there is no perfect way.
I've never seen a plan perfectly executed because there is no such thing as a perfect plan. There are always unexpected factors that arise. You accommodate and deal with them as they come up. That is the best thing you can do. A perfect plan is about as much fantasy as the one your W is dreaming of at the moment. This is real life and things go wrong - all the time. That is the only expectation you can have.
You have your plan. Work it. Second guessing and waiting for the stars and planets to align with the right phase of the moon is going to drive you to insanity.
analysis paralysis- that is hysterical...and so so true.
Fracesc...pull the trigger- I have never seen someone so ready for this. Just remain calm. What do you have to lose? your M? You don't have your M right now to lose so just execute!!
Good luck!!!
You have your plan. Work it. Second guessing and waiting for the stars and planets to align with the right phase of the moon is going to drive you to insanity.
Thank you for this. I really needed it a good slap. I was starting to see my W as the victim of all this and she's NOT.
Now, I've put all the evidence together and that made me confident. It's pretty solid. I'm making things very easy for OM W to get. Ordering everything by date so it's clear and easy to follow.
Thanks for all your notes Gnosis, you're absolutely right. And your speech for the family is really close to what I was writing. One thing to note is that the family KNOWS who this guy is, he used to be her secondary school teacher. I was planning to share who he is otherwise it sounds made up.
Still, my main question remains. Does family goes before or after my W calls me to cut my b*lls for exposing her affair to OM W ?
Friday is the day. I'm ready.
Still, my main question remains. Does family goes before or after my W calls me to cut my b*lls for exposing her affair to OM W ?
I've always advocated -- and did, personally, in my own sitch -- exposing to family AFTER confronting the cheating spouse. But Allen A over in the Infidelity forum had a good point about doing it the other way around. He said that you expose to your wife's family FIRST, and tell them you HAVE EVIDENCE (and will show it to them if they wish), and of course you'd never be telling them this horrible news if you didn't. You add further that "Wife is probably going to lie to you about this, which is almost more unfortunate than the cheating, but from what I've learned it's pretty typical in these situations. I respect you far too much to ever do that, and I WILL NEVER LIE TO YOU, you have my word on that."
Or something similar.
Then, when -- sure as shootin' -- the wife lies to her parents and siblings about it, your hand is strengthened from there on out with her family: you told them the truth.
But either way works, and I agree with Gno on this -- you need to stop dithering and JUST DO THIS.
Puppy
That might make sense. Will think about it.
On a different note.
Lawyers came back to my company about the Visa situation.
The easiest, cleanest and more straightforward way is if I can get proof that my wife has been working here for the past 3 years. Tricky. All that info is in the flat where she's now.
I was thinking that I miiiiiiiiiiiiiight get away with asking her to leave the keys with a neighbor because I need some books and I'd prefer not to see her. I'll go there when she's at work on Friday (the day I'll expose to OMW)
I think she'll trust me. She thinks I'm weak, remember? I won't do anything to her.
If I can get away with that, I can get the papers make copies and collect the rest of my stuff. When she comes from work, all my stuff is gone, there's no phone line, etc.
She'll be mad but I'll have what I need.
Of course, to do that I need to break the rule of not contacting her.
What do you think?
Remain NO CONTACT.
After you drop your exposure bomb pitch up at her place unannounced. Say, "I'm here to pick up the rest of my stuff" and keep quiet. Go in, get your stuff and get out.
Let her vent, scream and shout if she wants to. If she tries to trap you into any conversation, look her in the eye and tell her in a firm tone of voice, "At this point in time I have nothing to say to you."
IMPORTANT: GO WITH A FRIEND so you can have a witness. She is less likely to make a scene then.
After you drop your exposure bomb pitch up at her place unannounced. Say, "I'm here to pick up the rest of my stuff" and keep quiet. Go in, get your stuff and get out..
I hear you, the fact is, I'd might need a copy of HER pay slips. I won't be able to get away with that at that point. I'd imagine then I need to ask the lawyers to get me another option.
Do you overthink everything?
Do you overthink everything?
It's part of my job
No but seriously, this not to do with the plan. It's to do with what lawyers are asking.
That might make sense. Will think about it.
. . .
What do you think?
I think you're
DITHERING.
Puppy
That might make sense. Will think about it.
. . .
What do you think?
I think you're
DITHERING.
Puppy
Hold on time to ponder about dithering, give me a minute.
The plan is on. Not taking back any of that.
Evidence ready
Phone/Broadband cancellation order ready
Timing is perfect
I'm ready.
I know I've been going back and forth on things but that plan is FINAL. I'm rolling with that period.
The last question didn't have to do with the plan ITSELF, had to do with a request from the lawyers who are taking care of my new visa. They ask, is there a way you could get those papers from your wife? I thought of it and posted my thoughts here. Asked if it was worth breaking the NO CONTACT rule to get my visa secured.
The answer seems to be NO, DONT BREAK IT. So be it.
I can assure you, the plan is on. Not taking a single step back.
When?
Friday. It's always been friday.
I wake up. I Secure finances then:
1. Expose OM W first thing
2. Wait
3. Expose W family
4. Wait for W to call and rip me a new one.
5. Get my stuff
6. Go dark.
Francesc- are you in risk management? work for NASA?
I am at the edge of my seat..I'll be pulling for you. Everything will go fine..maybe not according to plan..but fine.
When I dropped the bomb on H bosses..I got a completely different response than what I expected. I thought my H was going to be crazed...he was actually embarressed and ashamed. He deflated like a balloon. Try to limit your expectations...your W if human..you cannot control the way she is going to react..just remain confident afterwards...no apologies...stay strong.
Friday. It's always been friday.
I wake up. I Secure finances then:
1. Expose OM W first thing
2. Wait
3. Expose W family
4. Wait for W to call and rip me a new one.
5. Get my stuff
6. Go dark.
Fair enough.
Puppy
Friday. It's always been friday.
I wake up. I Secure finances then:
1. Expose OM W first thing
2. Wait
3. Expose W family
4. Wait for W to call and rip me a new one.
5. Get my stuff
6. Go dark.
Fair enough.
Puppy
Gone to GAL until Friday.
Will keep you posted.
are you in risk management? work for NASA?
LOL.
When I dropped the bomb on H bosses..I got a completely different response than what I expected. I thought my H was going to be crazed...he was actually embarressed and ashamed.
That's why mind reading trips us up.
Try to limit your expectations...your W if human..you cannot control the way she is going to react..just remain confident afterwards...no apologies...stay strong.
Very good advice Lola.
Frac is strong and he's handling this pretty well. It's the "idle" time that is making him look like he's dithering. The sitting around and waiting drives us all nuts. That's why we GAL... to keep us busy and reduce the "idle" time.
Why #4..... Waiting is her in control.
Why rip a new one.
Take some time to write out your boundary. Since it is by phone.
I would assume 4 would be Have speach written out before me. I continue to expose to friends of the marriage.
I then take time to go for a very long walk and I keep walking to clear my head. Just the sound of life around you.
Then you call her and you say what you wrote. Then you hang up.
Take control. You are the one who is acting by george. She is reacting. I am not going to reread your thread. I know you have worked long and hard on this. But IMHO. You need to show grace , tough love and the high road. You need to state your boundaries when you are ready and prepared. And you do it. Set a stop watch for 3 minutes when you call her. And you call her when your ready. If your speech is over 3 minutes its too long. And if she does not answer. Then you know you are still ready when she calls you. And when she does you put your hand up in the air and you stay.
STOP. You are going to listen to me right now. If you say one word before I am done I am hanging this phone up.
Speak.
Hang the phone up.
Turn phone off.
Go do what you got to do to release the stress from the day.
Will do that.
I'm in control, not her.
Not really considering expose to friends, just family.
Friends will judge her and condemn her, family won't.
I don't want to humiliate her.
I still love her.
Maybe not as my partner but as a human being that gave me (to this day) the most 12 amazing years of my life. (minus this 1 month).
Out of respect for that, I'll show grace even when I'm being firm.
Ta.
Well, I think my W will disagree with you if you call her Friday night.
Well, I think my W will disagree with you if you call her Friday night.
Now I don't care WHO you are, that's just plain damned
FUNNY!
LMAO!!!
Puppy
Don't say anything to your wife's BF. It isn't worth wasting your anger on her and it isn't her fault.
Let it go. Your wife is a big girl and this falls ENTIRELY on her shoulders. Put the blame where it goes. Your wife.
Remain NO CONTACT.
After you drop your exposure bomb pitch up at her place unannounced. Say, "I'm here to pick up the rest of my stuff" and keep quiet. Go in, get your stuff and get out.
Let her vent, scream and shout if she wants to. If she tries to trap you into any conversation, look her in the eye and tell her in a firm tone of voice, "At this point in time I have nothing to say to you."
IMPORTANT: GO WITH A FRIEND so you can have a witness. She is less likely to make a scene then.
Better yet go with a small digital recorder. That's what I did. It's amazing how powerful a recording is.
Remain NO CONTACT.
After you drop your exposure bomb pitch up at her place unannounced. Say, "I'm here to pick up the rest of my stuff" and keep quiet. Go in, get your stuff and get out.
Let her vent, scream and shout if she wants to. If she tries to trap you into any conversation, look her in the eye and tell her in a firm tone of voice, "At this point in time I have nothing to say to you."
IMPORTANT: GO WITH A FRIEND so you can have a witness. She is less likely to make a scene then.
Better yet go with a small digital recorder. That's what I did. It's amazing how powerful a recording is.
Puppy
Big day today.
Put your 3D glasses on.
I'm going in.
(deep breath)
Good luck
and remember: Cool, Calm, Collected and Confident.
Thinking good thoughts for you today, Sweetie.
Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!
And I'm wondering just how much self-righteousness and "outrage" will be exhibited by your Mrs. when you deliver the Shock and Awe.
Stay strong.
There is a Native American concept that I like to think of when I am facing adversity. It says that you stand strong, like a buffalo facing a fierce, North wind. Just plant your feet, face into the buffeting winds, and let them gust over you till it passes.
To the bat poles . . .
Frac -
I don't know you, but have been following along. The very best of luck. You've really done well w/your plan. Now execute! You are so brave. Be proud!
I must agree. I've never seen anyone get it together and swing into action this quickly before.
Sent evidence to OM W already and her sister.
Should hear about them shortly.
Wife Exposing speech. To be done by phone.
Pls let me know what do you think.
Too harsh? Too soft? Too LONG?
Clock is Ticking.
W: Hello?
Me
Hi, X.
I just called you to let you know, that I know what you've been doing and I won't put up with it.
I gave you space, I respected your decision of not seeing each, I was a gentleman and you paid me by betraying my trust.
Sure, I wasn't a perfect husband, but while I was still trying to work on our marriage you decided become an adulterous woman.
You thought it was a good decision, to go from being a priority in my life, to being second in married man's life.
Ok, that's your decision, you live with that but I won't be a part of that.
I wonder, how can someone who speaks so much about love and gratitude can keep so cool about destroying innocent children's lives?
I guess it's to do with the way you interpret the law of atracction, "take care of your own happiness, be selfish"
I'm starting to like that though, actually, so from now on, I'll only care about myself and what I want.
The old me, who used to consider you for everything, is gone.
You've lost all of my trust.
So I'm letting you know that as of today, I'll be taking every meassure to protect myself and our marriage from your reckless behaviour.
I can't trust you.
Oh, and one more thing.
I remember you telling me how you needed a real man and I was just a kid.
Well, dear. You see, Real men don't go betraying their wives and their children and chasing lovers.
Real men protect their marriages and their wives at all costs.
And that's exactly what I'm going to do.
bye.
Thank you all for your kind words of support.
This has been going good. I'm feeling strong.
Money has been transfered. Bomb waiting to be opened.
Wife not having a clue I'm about to call in a couple of hours.
Then, family.
Sent evidence to OM W already and her sister.
Should hear about them shortly.
Wife Exposing speech. To be done by phone.
Pls let me know what do you think.
Too harsh? Too soft?
Clock is Ticking.
W: Hello?
Me
Hi, X.
I just called you to let you know, that I know what you've been doing and I won't put up with it.
I gave you space, I respected your decision of not seeing each, I was a gentleman and you paid me by betraying my trust.
Sure, I wasn't a perfect husband, but while I was still trying to work on our marriage you decided become an adulterous woman.
You thought it was a good decision, to go from being a priority in my life, to being second in married man's life.
Ok, that's your decision, you live with that but I won't be a part of that. This is your decision, and you're a grown woman and I can't control you, nor do I want to. But you emphatically need to know, I will NOT live in an open marriage. I value myself too much to do that.
I wonder, how can someone who speaks so much about love and gratitude can keep so cool about destroying innocent children's lives? Do you have any idea what this is going to do to the children?
I guess it's to do with your law of atracction ideas, "take care of your own happiness, be selfish"
I'm starting to like that though, actually, so from know on, I'll only care about myself and what I want.
The old me, who used to consider you for everything, is gone.
You've lost all of my trust. Sadly, I don't trust you right now, and I find the need to protect myself, and our kids. So I'm letting you know that as of today, I'll be taking every meassure to protect myself and our marriage from your reckless behaviour.
I can't trust you.
Oh, and one more thing.
I remember you telling me how you needed a real man and I was just a kid.
Well, dear. You see, Real men don't go betraying their wives and their children and chasing lovers.
Real men protect their marriages and their wives at all costs.
And that's exactly what I'm going to do. (You're going to SHOW her this, Frace, not TELL her this). Real men are DOERS, not TALKERS.
bye.
Way, WAY too much. See suggested edits, above.
Puppy
NO TIME TO RE-DO THIS, FRACE -- THE
"UNDERLINES" ABOVE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE
STRIKE-THRUS!!!
Thank you all for your kind words of support.
This has been going good. I'm feeling strong.
Money has been transfered. Bomb waiting to be opened.
Wife not having a clue I'm about to call in a couple of hours.
Then, family.
Just said a prayer for you, Frace -- for STRENGTH, wisdom and CALM RESOLVE.
Game on.
Puppy
God bless you, Frace!
I admire your strength and resolve.
Frac,
I see Puppy beat me to it...
Hi, X.
I know what you've been doing. Stop. Don't even bother to lie to me. I won't tolerate this behavior anymore. When you asked for space I respected your decision to not see each other. While I was a gentleman you were busy lying and deceiving me. Your betrayal has destroyed my trust in you.
I will no longer live like this and have taken the appropriate measures to protect myself and my values. As long as you are committing adultery I have no wish to see you or speak to you.
Enjoy your sick "attraction". Goodbye.
<CLICK>
EDIT:
- You do NOT need to tell her how much she has hurt you.
- You do not use an accusatory tone of voice with her
- Your voice is calm and unemotional as you state the facts (think Gone With The Wind... "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn")
- You have confidence.
- You do not whine or complain.
gosh Frac - I guess you are right about where I am huh?
I'm right behind you with the same situation. I'll be reading your thread to get input for my own strategy.
I'll be thinking of you....
Exposed to W.
She denied it all of course.
Didn't engage in conversation.
Just stated the facts. Not any of the specifics.
Her head must had been spinning, afterwards.
She say she didn't know what was I talking about.
Good try for a woman that never lied before.
(((Fracesc)))
I think you may soon be joining the ranks of Puppy, Gucci, Braveheart, and others who don't have their balls in their w's purses.
Exposed to W.
She denied it all of course.
Didn't engage in conversation.
Just stated the facts. Not any of the specifics.
Her head must had been spinning, afterwards.
She say she didn't know what was I talking about.
Good try for a woman that never lied before.
I would have bet you $10,000 cash that this is what would happen.
I have even heard of cheating spouses being SHOWN the evidence (something I do NOT recommend -- NEVER reveal the source(s) of your intel!), and they STILL deny it. I actually played a RECORDING for my wife, of her and OM that I won't even get into here, but it was sexual in nature, and SHE DENIED THAT WAS EVEN HER: "That's not me on there. No, it's not."
"Compartmentalization" is a bitch.
GOOD JOB on exposing and confronting; now steel yourself into the gale-force wind that's gonna blow, cuz it's surely gonna blow.
Puppy
Oh, and I've got 7:30pm tonite in the pool for her to spew forth the "I was GOING to try to work things out with you, but NOW YOU'VE BLOWN ANY CHANCE OF THAT BY DOING THESE THINGS TODAY!"
Bank on it.
Puppy
I'm putting my money on it.
"There is no chance, no destiny, no fate, that can hinder or control the firm resolve of a determined soul."
Ella Wheeler Wilcox
Ok. I'm taking a minute to catch my breath.
Let's see if OM W will play ball.
Oh, and I've got 7:30pm tonite in the pool for her to spew forth the "I was GOING to try to work things out with you, but NOW YOU'VE BLOWN ANY CHANCE OF THAT BY DOING THESE THINGS TODAY!"
Bank on it.
Puppy
I'll see your 7:30 and raise you to 6:00pm
Just catching up F. Listen to these guys they know what they're talking about. Been there done that. I wish I had my $hit together like u do. Took most of us a hellava lot longer.
Stick your guns. Remember this is HER PROBLEM NOT YOURS. SHE CHOSE THIS. Dont let her GUILT TRIP YOU with any of her bs.
Stay strong. PMA
Wife already changed email password for one of her accounts but not the other. She's not thinking straight.
She must be freaking out, trying to know what I actually know and I don't know.
Have to say, Puppy and Gnosis, the speech I put together from your advice worked like a charm in sending her mind in a million directions.
I'm emotionally exhausted. It's been a though, long day.
Exposed to one family member only (not direct relative, in law) the one I thought would be more willing to listen. I was right. He told me that they were already very thinking that she was only telling half of the story. I might have a player in the other team but won't treat him like one until I have 100% confidence in him.
Can't find the rest of the family, so I'm just going to leave things there for now.
I've already been given strong signs that her mom will never believe me. My W painted the picture that I am a bastard for a whole month, so why bother?
W has still stuff to come when she gets home. No broadband and then checking her balance.
I'm exhausted.
On the bright side, I have a new haircut and I went shopping for new clothes. Complete different look tomorrow when I collect the rest of my stuff from home.
You're doing yeoman's work, Frace -- great job.
Remember,
do NOT let her bully you into giving up the source(s) of your intel. "I'm not going to tell you that" is all you need to say. If she asks you what you KNOW, say "I know everything," or "I know plenty, and I can't believe how disrespectful it all is to our family."
Just one example from my own sitch about the power of good intel, and them not knowing what you know and what you don't know:
When I found out about my wife's affair, thru a keylogger on our home computer, I gave her the "I know all about you and _______ , and it needs to stop" speech. In the weeks ahead, she continued to badger me to get me to reveal what I knew, and I would NOT give it up. "I'm not going to tell you, so please stop asking me -- suffice to say that I know just about everything."
Well, the voice-activated recorder in her car once turned up her talking to OM on her cellphone, and she said "I mean, unless he was outside in the bushes that day we were at _______'s house, and watching us thru the window, what could he possibly know? Do you think he has pictures of that?"
Um, no, dear, and I had NO CLUE you had ever been there up until that point, or if the relationship had gone all-the-way physical.
But thanks for the intel!
Puppy
Wife already changed email password for one of her accounts but not the other. She's not thinking straight.
Then the plan is working.
She must be freaking out, trying to know what I actually know and I don't know.
Yep. Look at what Puppy said above.
Have to say, Puppy and Gnosis, the speech I put together from your advice worked like a charm in sending her mind in a million directions.
You're very welcome. This is what the whole purpose behind it is... to keep her mind off the other man and on you.
I'm emotionally exhausted. It's been a though, long day.
Go and get some sleep. You've had a lot of sleepless nights. Catch up on that. And rest peacefully with the thought that the tables have now been turned. She is the one who is going to have a restless night.
Exposed to one family member only (not direct relative, in law) the one I thought would be more willing to listen. I was right. He told me that they were already very thinking that she was only telling half of the story.
That is good news.
I might have a player in the other team but won't treat him like one until I have 100% confidence in him.
Good. Proceed with caution.
Can't find the rest of the family, so I'm just going to leave things there for now.
No worries. This isn't a marathon. A short delay can be a good thing. i.e. Each on approaches her for her side of the story and bugs her to know if its true... at regular intervals... this puts strain on her.
I've already been given strong signs that her mom will never believe me. My W painted the picture that I am a bastard for a whole month, so why bother?
Why not bother? Who cares what she thinks... this is mind-reading. You have no idea. Just do it and see for yourself.
I know you are. Switch off the phone now and get some sleep. There is going to be a lot of "fun and games" going on at W's place.
On the bright side, I have a new haircut and I went shopping for new clothes. Complete different look tomorrow when I collect the rest of my stuff from home.
Yep.
Remember: The fewer words you speak the stronger you appear. Don't show any emotions on your face except... happiness. Happy to know the truth and it has set you free.
You're doing great as usual.
I'm emotionally exhausted. It's been a though, long day.
Go and get some sleep. You've had a lot of sleepless nights. Catch up on that. And rest peacefully with the thought that the tables have now been turned. She is the one who is going to have a restless night.
Yep. It may take two days to bust, or a week or a month, or six months. But make no mistake --
TODAY is the BEGINNING of the end of their affair.Today the romance and the mystique and the intrigue was shattered, by a single-minded man determined to fight for his marriage and his family.
God bless.
Puppy
Thank you all for your kind words of support.
This has been going good. I'm feeling strong.
Money has been transfered. Bomb waiting to be opened.
Wife not having a clue I'm about to call in a couple of hours.
Then, family.
Prayers for Fracesc's family!
Greek
Today the romance and the mystique and the intrigue was shattered, by a single-minded man determined to fight for his marriage and his family.
Puppy
... and let's not forget armed with some incredible advice.
Thanks to everyone who has dropped a line and challenged me through this journey. If you go back to the beginning of the thread only 1 week ago I was in complete darkness and denial.
I don't know what's going to happen but what I DO know that the journey within me, is something that nobody is ever going to take away from me.
U helped me turn a crisis, into an opportunity for personal growth.
I'll never forget that.
And YOU are sounding like a confident, decisive man with a plan and going somewhere...
May I remind you?
THAT is VERY VERY attractive to women...
Went to collect my things. W wasn't there.
Have to come back later.
Exposed to sister.
She's in denial. She thinks since my W and her had to go through splitting parents over affairs, she'd never do anything like that but trusts me I wouldn't lie about something as serious as this. Also she knows OM from the past to even consider that, shocks her. She wished me well, in the end and asked me to take care of myself.
Again, very supportive. Won't treat him as a friend, though. She is her sister.
Exposed to cousin. Supportive but won't trust him. Didn't share details.
Will go back to the lioness den, later today. First, to the movies. Hell, yeah.
Good to see you're holding it together. Enjoy the movies. Oh, and I wouldn't call it the lioness' den... its more like a snake pit.
I hope you can get your stuff soon.
I'm wondering just how much self-righteousness and "outrage" will be exhibited by your Mrs.
Very interested in this, Kimmie.
Over the phone, she tried to act as if she didn't know what was I talking about. Then, I told her "Stop. Don't even bother lying. I know" She kept quiet for the rest of the call.
But surely by know, she'll be outraged that I read her emails (she only suspects this), contacted her family, took the money, etc At least that's what I'm expecting her to throw my way.
Anywho, I won't have a conversation with her or apologise, that's definite.
But I'd like to understand how you guys have dealt with these things: Privacy ( I feel a bit guilty of going through my wife's emails), also there's this thing about if it should be ME letting OM W about the affair, etc
Right now, the only way I've come to terms with this is that I've done all of this for the right reasons. Not to deceive anyone. Unlike my W and OM.
But interested to know how you guys have dealt with this.
Wife says this by txt.
"I understand you're angry but I'd like to talk to you. I hope you find it in yourself to grant me that chance"
First of all, no need to address privacy with HER, as you're not going to reveal your sources. For YOU, I would tell you that there's a difference between PRIVACY, and SECRETS.
For HER, your answers are simple: "Everything I've done, has been to fight for our marriage.". And "I decided that she had a right to know the truth," and "I decided that I'm not willing to lie to cover up your affair. "
puppy
Yup. Stay dark.
You an expect a series of follow up calls... so she's followed the sweet route for now. I.e. sweet and defensive and "poor little me"
When that doesn't work the anger and spew will follow.
You sit tight.
I second this^
Do not second guess yourself.
DO NOT FEEL GUILTY!! You had to investigate to protect yourself. Would you blame the local constabulary for investigating a crime? Your w has betrayed you and she has absolutely no right to feel anything but ashamed.
Keep your head in the game. Your moves, so far, have been nothing short of brilliant!
Yup. Stay dark.
You an expect a series of follow up calls... so she's followed the sweet route for now. I.e. sweet and defensive and "poor little me"
When that doesn't work the anger and spew will follow.
You sit tight.
Yes, after her ridiculous lies and manipulations don't work, she will fly into a rage. Do not get defensive and wordy. Repeat the mantras Puppy has given you, nothing more.
You can do this. Stand like the buffalo in the gale force winds.
Good answers. Thanks for the mantras. Namaste.
I feel really calm actually. Confident.
I actually had a NAP! Me! the guy who never takes naps in his life!
Just something I also learned so far:
How valuable it has been not been a douchebag to her family during this 12 years of relationship. It has paid. They trust me. They've offered me support, etc. Of course, I won't treat them as my friends right now but they're making it easier for me to go through this.
OMG. I didn't realize you have been with her that long. You are an extraordinary man.
Steady as she goes. You're doing great and we're all pulling for you.
What movie did you see?
Didn't go in the end.
It's sunny and there aren't many days like this over here.
Why waste it in a dark room.
What I did watch was some Gone with the Wind scenes as per
Gnosis suggestion. Brilliant.
Will keep you posted.
I'm wondering just how much self-righteousness and "outrage" will be exhibited by your Mrs.
Very interested in this, Kimmie.
Over the phone, she tried to act as if she didn't know what was I talking about. Then, I told her "Stop. Don't even bother lying. I know" She kept quiet for the rest of the call.
But surely by know, she'll be outraged that I read her emails (she only suspects this), contacted her family, took the money, etc At least that's what I'm expecting her to throw my way.
Anywho, I won't have a conversation with her or apologise, that's definite.
But I'd like to understand how you guys have dealt with these things: Privacy ( I feel a bit guilty of going through my wife's emails), also there's this thing about if it should be ME letting OM W about the affair, etc
Right now, the only way I've come to terms with this is that I've done all of this for the right reasons. Not to deceive anyone. Unlike my W and OM.
But interested to know how you guys have dealt with this.
Let's see,
she will be outraged that you read her emails
or...
you should be outraged that she is having an affair for quite some time under your nose
Let's put those on a scale and see which one has more weight.
Yeah, and I can't wait for the typical WAW shriek, "HAVE YOU BEEN SPYING ON ME-E-E-EEE??!!!" Such a lame-ass line, like something out of a bad movie. Have you been SPYING ON ME-E-E-E-EEEEE??!! Never get tired of that lame sh!t.
Un-f*cking believable when they have the nerve to try to deflect the blame.
**LOOK OVER THERE!!!!!**
Little tidbit - here's why the law of attraction doesn't "work" - if I want to attract a job and you want the same job, who gets it? The one who "attracted" it longer?
God is what we are talking about when people mention "the universe" - and He is fair and kind and JUST - no one person counts more than another.
He gave us free will, and she has free will.
Sorry, still on page 1 of your sitch, just started reading, and wanted to let people know - whether you believe in God or a higher power or not, the whole "attraction" thing doesn't work logically for that very reason.
BTW, this is what the Law of Attraction says about cheating.
http://www.law-of-attraction-guide.com/cheating.html------------------------------------------------------
Is the grass ever greener on the other side?
Of course this is not easy to ignore, as you are activating the vibration of what you want, and as you look for what you want, what you want is being manifested to you.
This is often the way relationships start. Someone we are perhaps interested in, offers us the possibility of something more, and as we look for similarities in that person, those similarities become manifested to us.
We often see this in many new relationships, and because each of the partners are looking for, “the things that make them happy”, these new relationships tend to be fun, exciting, joyful and passionate.
And then, as they relationships age, there is less fun, less excitement, less joy and less passion, and as these feelings start to dwindle, it is then that many people look for a change of behaviour in their partner, in an attempt to relight the spark.
It is this ‘pressure to change’ that is the cause of most discord in most unhappy and broken relationships, and the sooner that people realized that they do not need to change another, in order for them to feel good, the easier, more joyess, and more satisfactory these romantic relationships will be.
You see, the grass can never be greener on the other side, until you learn to appreciate the grass you have.
Before you go running away from a satisfactory relationship to find this fun, exciting, joyful and passionate new relationship, consider this….
This new relationship will only stay as a fun, exciting, joyful and passionate relationship, for as long as you look to it for this purpose. You can only manifest to you, what you are predominantly vibrating, and for as long as you vibrate this fun, this excited, this joy and this passion, that shall be your experience.
As indeed, it probably was with your husband.
So before calling a premature end to a marriage that is everything you asked it to be, why not try to ask for your marriage to be something else.
And I don’t mean changing the way your husband behaves, I mean adjusted your vibration to the very best of what your husband has to offer.
Concentrate all your thought on the very best of your husband, notice his good points, his qualities and his positives. Ignore his negatives and offer this side of him no thought, no feeling, and no vibration.
Start your day in gratitude for him, and never expect him to be different in order for you to be happy.
If you can do this, then your husband will always offer you exactly what you think and feel about him, or if he does not match this positive vibration, then you will naturally begin to drift apart.
By doing this, at least you would have given you marriage a chance, you would have taken control of your emotions and created your reality, instead of drifting from one thing to another.
Or course they also say this:
“If you feel drawn to someone, but you are annoyed because you think that they are telling you some lies, try to look beyond the lies and try to focus upon the feeling. People offer all kinds of words for all kinds of different reasons. Most lies are offered to try to keep things in alignment. We’re not encouraging it, but the motive behind lying is usually a pretty honorable motive. In other words, when a child lies to their parents, it’s usually because they want to be free to do what they want to do, and they don’t want their parents to be upset about it. It’s about wanting an alignment. Physical ears have a hard time hearing this. You keep talking about “We need to be honest.” And we say, we don’t meet any of you who are honest. Even those who claim to be the most virtuous, are not honest, but your vibration always is. We would trust the feeling more than the words.”
Help pls. In the middle of a crisis now.
I got a call, I didn't recognise the number so I picked up.
It was my W's sister. She was fuming!
W's Sister spoke to my W and my wife told her about the phone
and the bank account. And she was really, really upset
that I have done those things without talking to my W first
and let her state her reasons.
W's sister was really upset that I've been calling the family also
when this is such a private matter and we've always been
a very private couple.
She told me that I really need to talk with my W first.
She really made me feel guilty.
Have I gone too far?
Really losing it now.
Sad.
Frac -
Last time I checked your W if breaking the marital vows!
Did she talk to you about that first?!?!?!
Stay strong. Stay calm.
You did the right thing.
You're protecting your family mentally, emotionally, etc...
Yep -- absolutely. You tell her sister "this is -- and is GOING to be -- rough on ALL of us. But everything I'm doing, I am doing to PROTECT myself, and FIGHT FOR MY MARRIAGE. You, and your family, may not always agree with my methods, and I'm okay with that."
puppy
You expected this already. So you are getting spew from a different route than expected. Your W has followed her standard operating procedure i.e. Indirect confrontation.
Why are you feeling guilty?
No you have NOT gone too far. You did whatever you could to protect yourself and your marriage. You were expecting a shirtstorm...
W's sister is not your W. She can voice her opinions but she is not the one married to you. You told her to respect your actions. And that is just what she is going to have to do.
Frac, you dropped the bomb. Sit tight in your bunker. Let the sisters be angry with you... at least they are talking about you and not how wonderful the OM is.... What did your W think would happen when she asked for seperation or D? This is exactly what would have happened isn't it? Think of it this way.... you gave your W what she wanted before she asked for it --- and now she doesn't like it. Tough shirt.
. And she was really, really upset
that I have done those things without talking to my W first
and let her state her reasons.
. . .
She told me that I really need to talk with my W first.
this one needs to be addressed head on:
"Sister, I love you, and I love and respect your family. I have never lied to you, and I never will. As sad as it makes me to say this, I don't TRUST (Wife) right now, based on the decisions she's been making lately. I love her, and don't want to divorce, but I simply do not trust her in her current mindset, and I've had to take some steps to protect myself. I will always more than live up to my obligations with her, but I will also do what I have to do to protect myself. I hope you can understand, but if you don't, it doesn't change my resolve. "
^
Very good. Handle it just like that.
How valuable it has been not been a douchebag to her family during this 12 years of relationship. It has paid. They trust me. They've offered me support, etc. Of course, I won't treat them as my friends right now but they're making it easier for me to go through this.
Frace, you have some "political capital" here to spend. But you're looking for OUTWARD SIGNS from your wife's family, and -- at this very early stage, post-bomb -- you're not going to get that. And, from some of them, you may NEVER get it, as sad as that is going to make you (it tore me up inside). But deep down, they know what "The Right Thing to Do" is when they see it.
So you just focus on letting them see it in the days and weeks ahead.
Puppy
Over the phone, she tried to act as if she didn't know what was I talking about. Then, I told her "Stop. Don't even bother lying. I know" She kept quiet for the rest of the call.
this is all your wife has said to you thus far?
Thank you all. Feeling better now.
I did send a very similar follow up message, Puppy.
I said to my W's, that I could understand if she's angry but at least now she knows about how bad the situation her sister is in. At least now, she can be there for her. She didn't confide this to you in 1 month. What makes you think she was going to? Would you rather find out that you could have done something to help your sister when it's too late?
I can accept if your angry at me. Fair enough. At least I know that you'll be there for her and puts ease to my mind. Sure, it is a steep price to pay but I'll pay any price to protect my wife and my marriage.
Please remember, I'm her husband. It's not me you have to defend your sister from. The enemy is somewhere else.
You are good sister, my W is very lucky to have you.
F
Thank you all. Feeling better now.
I did send a very similar follow up message, Puppy.
I said to my W's, that I could understand if she's angry but at least now she knows about how bad the situation her sister is in. At least now, she can be there for her. She didn't confide this to you in 1 month. What makes you think she was going to? Would you rather find out that you could have done something to help your sister when it's too late?
I can accept if your angry at me. Fair enough. At least I know that you'll be there for her and puts ease to my mind. Sure, it is a steep price to pay but I'll pay any price to protect my wife and my marriage.
Please remember, I'm her husband. It's not me you have to defend your sister from. The enemy is somewhere else.
You are good sister, my W is very lucky to have you.
F
Damn, son. You
STUCK that sucka! Far, far better than mine!
Puppy
Over the phone, she tried to act as if she didn't know what was I talking about. Then, I told her "Stop. Don't even bother lying. I know" She kept quiet for the rest of the call.
this is all your wife has said to you thus far?
The day after she sent a txt message:
"I understand if you're angry but I hope that you can find it in you to give me a chance to talk"
I made a BIG mistake.
Didn't noticed until I sent it but I sent the message to my W's from my fake FB account which I use to log here.
I made a BIG mistake.
Didn't noticed until I sent it but I sent the message to my W's from my fake FB account which I use to log to my FB Divorce busting account.
I already deactivated that account and told her I sent it by mistake from a colleage account!!!
Damn, that was a HUUUUUUUGE mistake. I hope she doesnt flop
I'm not sure I understand. You sent her the e-mail FB-to-FB, via the "Send a Message" feature? And you use that FB account to . . . to what?
Puppy
Just to post on the Divorce busting page so i don't have to use my name.
I already deactivated that account so hopefully she wouldn't see that.
Damn that was a big mistake.
This day is getting, worst and worst.
Im so dumb.
I'm still confused, but I wouldn't worry about it. They say that people in affairs immediately lose about 30-40 IQ points, and that's been my experience as well.
I do think you would have been better off to NOT SAY ANYTHING, and just deactivate the account (kinda like a musician who makes a mistake -- "just keep on playing, they probably won't notice.")
What is it specifically that you fear? That she'll be able to find you on HERE?
Puppy
This day is getting, worst and worst.
OK, Frace, brace yourself, cuz this is gonna sting.
If this is all the intestinal fortitude you have, you're going to be a raging failure at Divorce Busting. Because you're going to have DOZENS of days like this.DOZENS.You are in an emotional and even a spiritual battle right now, for your marriage. If you want to have "easy" days, then JUST DO NOTHING. I'm sure your wife will be glad to "go along to get along," and you'll be fine . . . for awhile.
Then she'll announce one day, several months from now, that she's divorcing you and she will already have all of her bases covered, and you'll have to just sit there and take it up the you-know-what.
Or, you can fight -- NOW -- on YOUR terms, as the one guy in the marriage who actually has its best interests at heart right now.
Your choice. But stop the pity party, because you're doing JUST FINE.
Puppy
Change your DB user name. Start a new thread and let this one die.
was that the FB account the OMW was to contact you at?
has she yet?
did your wife's sister give you any indication what your wife is up to now?
Not that.
But raising any suspicion on SIL at this point is not good for me, is it?
I can't really afford to lose any credibility with the fam. Also, lets not forget she'll tell my wife and something dodgy is going on...
I did deactivate that account, hopefully she won't mind.
It would not be good if she finds your game plan here.
This day is getting, worst and worst.
OK, Frace, brace yourself, cuz this is gonna sting.
If this is all the intestinal fortitude you have, you're going to be a raging failure at Divorce Busting. Because you're going to have DOZENS of days like this.DOZENS. Sorry, just two things happened so next to each other and it was too late to do something about it.
I guess I just need to put things into perspective again
I have a fake FB account.
My W has an affair.
Ok.
Thanks Puppy.
I think im going to go for a walk now.
Need to focus on other things for awhile or I'll go crazy.
J
It would not be good if she finds your game plan here.
Already applied for a name change but admin has to approve it in here.
FB account is gone.
Also just found out you can google the contents of this forums.
I find it very unlikely that, that'll happen but it's scary that this info
is not only available for registered users.
Been following your sitch here. Frac, your doing great...no need to second guess yourself. I would say, do not involve the family in this or at least only if absolutely necessary.
do not involve the family in this or at least only if absolutely necessary.
too late for that. at least they can be there for her.
was that the FB account the OMW was to contact you at?
has she yet?
No, that was not the FB account she was supposed to contact me and she hasn't. Got knows what's happening on that front. There's a chance they're on easter holiday.
did your wife's sister give you any indication what your wife is up to now?
She only told me that she wanted to talk things out. That it was not fair for me to call her and not let her self explain, she was in a meeting, blah, blah, blah. And that she mentioned me cutting the phone line. She was pretty mad at this. (of course, she can't speak to OM).
I do think, that if nothing else but for appearances, you should do this. Give her an audience, but preface it with "as soon as you start lying to me, this conversation is over."
And then follow up on that.
Then you can tell her family "I tried to talk to her, but she keeps lying to me, and I'm not going to sit there and listen to that -- it insults my intelligence, and it's incredibly disrespectful to our marriage."
Puppy
I do think, that if nothing else but for appearances, you should do this. Give her an audience, but preface it with "as soon as you start lying to me, this conversation is over."
And then follow up on that.
Then you can tell her family "I tried to talk to her, but she keeps lying to me, and I'm not going to sit there and listen to that -- it insults my intelligence, and it's incredibly disrespectful to our marriage."
Yep, an opportunity to grant her an audience. It will be on your terms and you control the agenda. Oh, and if you want to really stir the pot... as soon as she starts lying again... simply hang up.
I do think, that if nothing else but for appearances, you should do this. Give her an audience, but preface it with "as soon as you start lying to me, this conversation is over."
And then follow up on that.
Then you can tell her family "I tried to talk to her, but she keeps lying to me, and I'm not going to sit there and listen to that -- it insults my intelligence, and it's incredibly disrespectful to our marriage."
Yep, an opportunity to grant her an audience. It will be on your terms and you control the agenda. Oh, and if you want to really stir the pot... as soon as she starts lying again... simply hang up.
Ok, when do you think I can do this?
And when you say, audience that means phone only or in person?
Frac - Gosh things got a little wild after our chat! HUGS, friend!
Ok, when do you think I can do this?
That's the beauty of taking back control of your life.
Whenever you feel like it... but soon...And when you say, audience that means phone only or in person?
Whichever works best for you.
You have no need to fear her. You do it when you are strong and can control your emotions.
Tuesday or Wednesday maybe unless thats too soon?
Now, what is this is the "Sorry you had to find that way, but we're keeping the affair going. He's the man of my life, blablha blah"
Tuesday or Wednesday maybe unless thats too soon?
Now, what is this is the "Sorry you had to find that way, but we're keeping the affair going. He's the man of my life, blablha blah"
Oh and also, the why the F did you contact my family? This is a private matter, etc?
I do think, that if nothing else but for appearances, you should do this. Give her an audience, but preface it with "as soon as you start lying to me, this conversation is over."
And then follow up on that.
Then you can tell her family "I tried to talk to her, but she keeps lying to me, and I'm not going to sit there and listen to that -- it insults my intelligence, and it's incredibly disrespectful to our marriage."
Yep, an opportunity to grant her an audience. It will be on your terms and you control the agenda. Oh, and if you want to really stir the pot... as soon as she starts lying again... simply hang up.
Ok, when do you think I can do this?
And when you say, audience that means phone only or in person?
It depends on to what degree you think you can convey a detached strength and hold it together. If you think you can do that in person, I think it would be MOST effective for her to see you steely and calm and detached. If you don't think you can, then do it by phone, and as Gno says, end the conversation if she starts to lie to you ("OK, we BOTH know you're lying to me right now, so this conversation is over. Goodbye.")
Puppy
Interesting concept that of an audience.
I need to put together a set of questions for you guys.
Wont have a script but I Do want to be prepared for this.
Should I ask questions, be interested in what she says or
just let her explain stuff.
I guess I'll depend on how that goes if I can make any demands.
Or have to deal with the "He is leaving his wife and..."
Ok, OM blocked me on Facebook so he obviously knows
and is hiding.
He's still friends with my wife on FB... not good news I guess.
Ok, OM blocked me on Facebook so he obviously knows
and is hiding.
Like the little predator chickenchit he is.
OK Frac,
I have a question for you...
Why the heck are you NOT out there getting a life?
Instead you're sitting here all day worrying about what she is doing and saying to everyone. This is HER problem... let her deal with it.
well, i was doing well but was just the sister's call that sent me in the wrong track. I wasn't prepared for that.
That's why I am asking these last questions, because next time it's W and I want to be better prepared, specially for the "i'm still going to do this" attitude.
But that's it.
And you're right, I need to GAL more. I was really trying.
Really was.
I want to be better prepared, specially for the "sorry, that you found out. i'm still going to do this" attitude."
Any comments on this? I cant arrange an audience if I don't know how to respond to the situation as opposite as just reacting to it.
Questions about audience.
1. Should I do this in a public or private place?
2. If I reply today, would it be too soon? (she contacted me Saturday)
3. What would be the main objective of this? Her telling it all? The truth?
4. How to respond to this situations:
- "I didn't know how to tell you and you've made this really easy. I love him."
- "Why did you have to involve my family? You're treating me as a little girl! I'm an adult"
- "Actually he already left the wife and kids and is coming next weekend with me. My family knows this."
- " Just accept this is over, even if I drop this guy, I'm never going to go back with you after what you've done"
-"I don't know what to do, I do have feelings for him but never meant to hurt you. I'm confused . I know what I'm doing is wrong but can't help it. I love him"
And finally
5. Should I ask or demand anything at this point? drop the affair, etc?
I'm thinking of meeting her tomorrow. Otherwise I'll be very busy for the rest of the week.
Questions about audience.
1. Should I do this in a public or private place?
2. If I reply today, would it be too soon? (she contacted me Saturday)
3. What would be the main objective of this? Her telling it all? The truth?
4. How to respond to this situations:
- "I didn't know how to tell you and you've made this really easy. I love him."
- "Why did you have to involve my family? You're treating me as a little girl! I'm an adult"
- "Actually he already left the wife and kids and is coming next weekend with me. My family knows this."
- " Just accept this is over, even if I drop this guy, I'm never going to go back with you after what you've done"
-"I don't know what to do, I do have feelings for him but never meant to hurt you. I'm confused . I know what I'm doing is wrong but can't help it. I love him"
And finally
5. Should I ask or demand anything at this point? drop the affair, etc?
I'm thinking of meeting her tomorrow. Otherwise I'll be very busy for the rest of the week.
Fracesc,
Seems to me that we have gone off track here....
The only exposure that really counts here is the exposure to the OM's wife. THAT is the one that is going to tell us what is going to happen.
I believe that you need to find out if the OM's wife got your message before you talk to your wife. Something isn't right if she hasn't contacted you since Friday when you sent the information. You may have to follow up on that or find some way to see if she got your message. It doesn't seem that she did or you would have heard more from your wife.
for all I know they could be on holiday, or even got the info and don't want to contact me or do anything about it.
what do you suggest?
should i move on with talking to my w or not then?
I highly doubt she wouldn't want to do anything about it.
As far as your wife goes, I would wait this out and let her contact you. You will have much more credibility by waiting for her to contact you again.
Hold the line here. By not contacting her she will be wondering what else you could be up to or wondering other things.
^^^^^^^
This is the correct path.
Imagination is a powerful weapon.
Use it.
Questions about audience.
1. Should I do this in a public or private place?
2. If I reply today, would it be too soon? (she contacted me Saturday)
3. What would be the main objective of this? Her telling it all? The truth?
4. How to respond to this situations:
- "I didn't know how to tell you and you've made this really easy. I love him."
- "Why did you have to involve my family? You're treating me as a little girl! I'm an adult"
- "Actually he already left the wife and kids and is coming next weekend with me. My family knows this."
- " Just accept this is over, even if I drop this guy, I'm never going to go back with you after what you've done"
-"I don't know what to do, I do have feelings for him but never meant to hurt you. I'm confused . I know what I'm doing is wrong but can't help it. I love him"
And finally
5. Should I ask or demand anything at this point? drop the affair, etc?
I'm thinking of meeting her tomorrow. Otherwise I'll be very busy for the rest of the week.
At the beginning one of the phases you will go through is obsessing. Recognize all this for what it is.
Do not act here.
Your main goal should be the OMW. Get your message to her.
Grief has 5 stages.
Since I just pop in here once in awhile I can read it a bit more detached than the others who are offering you good advice.
But what your doing here is called bargaining.
You need to stick to the long term plan. Bust the affair.
Do not contact her.
Keep working and finishing the current plan.
And accept grief for what it is. Work through it.
Stay strong.
I think I'm between bargaining and depression.
I'm doing my best to get in touch with OM W but of course, I don't want to involve more people than I have to.
It's so sad, I've found out this woman has been attending seminars to get spiritual help for her marriage.
Frace,
The purpose of the meeting would be to allow your wife to speak to you, and for you to listen. Since it's about 90% likely that she will LIE to you, our further purpose is for her to do just that, so you can gain credibility with her family.
It is NOT for you to make any concessions whatsoever, nor for you to explain your actions, other than a (if she asks you why you exposed to OM's W) "I decided that she had a right to know the truth" or (if she asks you why you've done all of this) "Everything I've done, I've done either to protect myself or to fight for my marriage."
Everything else, we can cover in due time.
Puppy
Frace,
(if she asks you why you exposed to OM's W) "I decided that she had a right to know the truth"
Puppy
So, do I hold of OM's W to have this chat with my W? Again, I'm trying my best to contact her but it's easter holiday over there. God knows when she or her sister will check their messages. Again, trying.
Also, I'm just asking this question in case she wants to put an end to this right now
"Well our marriage is over, sorry you found out that way".
Would a:
"Ok, that's your decisions, I'll deal with mine. For me, it's not over and will fight for my marriage". How does that sound?
No. As everyone else has said above, your first order of business is to expose the affair to the other man's wife.
Puppy
Sorry, just to be clear. NO CONTACTING WIFE until OM W definitely has been exposed. Not even for appearances with my W family.
Am I right?
I don't think it's a dealbreaker one way or the other, Frace. But yes, I would try to avoid it. You can tell your wife (and her family) "We will talk soon; I'm just not ready yet."
If it takes more than a week for you to get in touch with OM's W, then you're going to have to meet with your wife at some point, just to hear her out. You probably won't be able to believe a word that comes out of her mouth, but your shared history together earns her at least that much at this stage.
Puppy
We never discussed confronting other man.
I do have his contact details. Is it even worth doing that?
Frac -
Just sending good thoughts your way. Are you doing anything fun yet???
Well, not really. To be honest I've been putting all my energy in this.
I know it's wrong. I'm trying to change that but it's just that this whole
thing has been so sudden. I had to tell my family yesterday we were separated. Didn't mention the affair. They were crushed but very supportive.
It was tough still.
Now, I've found out W is also hiding from me on Facebook now. That means she's angry I guess. Or nervous of what I might find in her profile.
Trying to think of other stuff. Finding it hard.
Actually, this is good. You don't need to see or hear from her on FB. You need to GAL and stick to the plan. We've all been there and I saw my divorce through...wouldnt wish it on anyone.
Not very encouraging to read that though, S.
Sorry about your divorce.
We never discussed confronting other man.
I do have his contact details. Is it even worth doing that?
Puppy
Trust me, FB can be the worst thing ever. I went throught this phase of checking my xw's FB and all it did was depress me.
I could see that she had re-created our life together with another man. The OM looks like me, she got a dog, same nieghborhood...she does and says the same things she said with me. She's trying to return to 'good girl' status again.
The fact is that the odds of a relationship started as an affair working out are slim. My xw seems to think she can just start over with someone else without addressing her core issues.
But seeing all this just ends up hurting you and keeps you from GAL. The key for all of us LBS's is to really work on ourselves and learn to be happy on our own. You must learn to respect yourself so others (even W) can, too.
Update, OM W finally replied! She asked some questions before she'd proceed. More evidence and sent me a friend request on FB. Waiting for her to drop the bomb on OM.
Update, OM W finally replied! She asked some questions before she'd proceed. More evidence and sent me a friend request on FB.
Looks like patience paid off for you. What did she sound like in the tone of her message?
Oh and I'm off to bed... no rush on the reply.
She sounded distressed but calm. I think she suspected. Her reply was:
"Hi ______ . You can imagine what this represents to me and my family so first I need to know how did you get my details, if you have more evidence and if you can tell me in which dates your W was in town"
Then, she added me as a friend.
I guess I just need to provide whatever she needs for reassurance and then sit tight.
What should I expect next?
I wouldnt give away the source of intel until you feel more comfortable w/ her...you can trust yourself to not give away the source, but can you trust someone else?
Please verify w/ some of the more experienced people.
I did expose to OM1 GF and she spilled some of the other details...I had asked her not too..but when the liars lie you have to remember that they will lie even w/ HARD evidence so it's a trap
Not discussing source of my intel with her.
It's pretty obvious, though. Most of them are emails.
She didn't ask how did I find out. Again, it's pretty obvious.
And I was honest about how I got her details. Her husband's FB page.
I guess I just need to provide whatever she needs for reassurance and then sit tight.
What should I expect next?
You can expect, from your wife, over the next week or two alternating fits of "syrupy sweet" and "blind rage," as she struggles to regain CONTROL of you and her fantasy. You have upset the apple cart and the equilibrium, and she will try VERY hard to re-establish it, by whatever means she feels might be effective. (Notice, she already tried "nice/sweet" -- expect livid anger and spew next. If you don't respond to THAT, she'll switch tactics back yet again).
At least, that's how it usually goes.
Puppy
You can also ABSOLUTELY expect her to use the line "Well, I was GOING to reconsider getting back with you, but NOW YOU'VE BLOWN IT!" -- or something very similar. Happens EVERY time.
As SmileysPerson used to say around here, you're heading into your "just smile and wave" stage.
My wife, while she was having her affair, would tell me how PISSED she was that I exposed. I mean, blind rage kind of anger. I would just calmly say "I hear you -- I'd be pissed too. I get it. I felt he/she/they had a right to know the truth." or, "I decided that I'm not going to lie to cover up your affair," or "Everything I've done, I've done to fight for our marriage and our family. I don't expect you to agree, or be happy with me right now -- I'm fine with that."
And then go about my GAL business.
Puppy
Great advice and the road map as usual Puppy.
I have to say I feel absolutely ready to GAL now.
The waiting was killing me and she replying was such a relief.
Smile and wave. Such a nice way to put it, isn't it?
I made a deal with myself.
She's responsible for the consequences of her decisions,
I'll be responsible for the consequences of mine (telling OMW, etc)
I can cope with that. At least this time, it was MY choice. Her affair wasn't.
Thanks again,
F
That's a great way to put it, Former.
And here's another:
Everything that YOU have done, even if in error, has been done in an effort to PRESERVE your marriage.
Everything that SHE has done, has been done to FLEE from her marriage, and to cheat.
Doesn't make you a saint -- you both are still responsible for your own issues in the marriage -- but there's simply no comparison between the tactics and actions of the two spouses at this stage of the game. One is done from a position of morality and ethics, and the other from a position of fantasy, escape, entitlement and lust.
Puppy
p.s. You do not need to have her as a friend to send private messages.... remember that.
make sure you explain your goals very clearly and I would suggest that you have a phone call conversation.
And then leave her alone to process everything. Do not mention this site. Do you understand.
When you talk. Connect the dots.
Sorry I didn't know I had to discuss my goals with OMW.
Do I? Then I might need to contact her again. I gave her my
email details and phone number.
Your goals are to bust the affair.
Because you want a chance to save your marriage.
That is the goal I ment.
A simple goal that is easy to understand.
I get it. I'll share this with her then.
Nice work Formerly! Please keep us posted!
Ok. OM W made contact.
He confronted him and of course he lied.
He said the flowers were because my W had lost a sister!
She only has one sister and I just spoke to her on the weekend!
She's in denial. I said I understand is hard but she needs to be
strong for her kids. Asked for more evidence so sent everything
I had.
I think she'll get there but the important thing is she already
confronted him and he lied. After our talk she's better prepared
for the next round.
I think she'll get there but the important thing is she already
confronted him and he lied.
. . . which enhances YOUR credibility with her.
Nicely done.
Puppy
Yes, i think it did. Or she'd have ended the conversation.
I told her specific details as his mobile phone number, etc
she was in shock, obviously.
She asked me about my story with my wife and if she knew.
I was honest but tried not to reveal to much. Specially about
the plan. But I did try to reach for some empathy and told her
I admire her courage to confront this and be strong for her family.
Very well handled, under some (mutually) trying circumstances.
Puppy
It also proves the point that he won't be leaving his wife any time soon.
Otherwise, why lie? And that's not good news for my W.
I'm expecting her to be fuming about this but she hasn't called.
It also proves the point that he won't be leaving his wife any time soon.
Otherwise, why lie? And that's not good news for my W.
No, but it IS good news for YOU.
Puppy
Very well handled, under some (mutually) trying circumstances.
Puppy
Thanks, man.
It also proves the point that he won't be leaving his wife any time soon.
Otherwise, why lie? And that's not good news for my W.
I think it
is good news for your W, (not that she'll be thanking you for it any time soon ). Hopefully, your actions have prevented her from becoming further involved with a guy who is lying to her and stringing her along. Now
maybe, she will have a shot at mending her marriage to a good man.
I know it's too soon to even ask but, I'll ask anyway.
I've been reading this book Gnosis recommended "After the affair" to try and understand what's happening to me, etc and it was really helped me. It explains really well why affair happen and why they feel the way they feel and how it's all unreal, etc. Do you think reading something like that will help her at some point to recover her sense?
At which point do you think it will be worth sharing it? (after the affair of course)
We're separated so I'd only have to order it and she'll get it.
At some point, yes. Just not now.
Puppy
He said the flowers were because my W had lost a sister!
He didn't think on his feet very well now did he?
Of course I have seen more obvious lies than this one that the BS STILL believes the wayward spouse over the evidence.
Keep the evidence mounting and keep up the pressure on him..
Formerly, I've been following your sitch. I don't have much else to offer you, as you have the best people giving you advice on how to deal with your sitch. I did want to tell you how impressed I am with the way you have conducted yourself. Absolutely tremendous job! I applaud you! Keep up the good work! You're fighting for your marriage, well done.
I agree. We have a saying around here, Formerly -- it was made up by Coach and a guy named Mulesqb (you'd be wise to look up his old posts and threads when you get a chance, btw -- great, great stuff). The phrase is
"Strength and Honor."
You, sir, are exhibiting BOTH thus far.
Puppy
It never ceases to amaze me how people deny truth, when confronted with hard evidence. lalalala....it doesnt exist.
Fortunately, the truth at some point must be reconciled.
Great work!
My W was trying to login into my MSN account earlier. I found out and changed the password.
I guess she definitely knows about what's happening in OM's house and is trying to find how much do I actually know.
Still no calls/msgs from her to me.
I'm following this too and have been since I arrived at DB. Hang on in there - you're doing a fantastic job mate.
I guess she definitely knows about what's happening in OM's house and is trying to find how much do I actually know.
Exactly. And without good intel, she will be left to assume you know . . .
EVERYTHING.
Precisely right.
Puppy
My W was trying to login into my MSN account earlier. I found out and changed the password.
I guess she definitely knows about what's happening in OM's house and is trying to find how much do I actually know.
Still no calls/msgs from her to me.
I would go through and change all your passwords. During the separation with my xw, she was able to check my business account and then have a weekend or two with her enabling best friend on me. Imagine how angry I was to see she had spent $400 in an hour on nothing. I also set my bank accounts to give me alerts.
I wouls suspect your W will change her passowrds now, so get whatever info you can ASAP.
On a side note....my wx still tries to take money from me! I caught ger last month trying to take $5 from my personal account! Her boyfriend doesnt have a job, so I guess every little bit helps!
Wouldn't hurt to keep your OWN computer locked, too, and also sweep your car occasionally for a voice-activated recorder.
Probably won't be needed, as she'll be likely wrapped up in her own stuff, but it's always wise to play good defense even while on OFFENSE.
Puppy
Hey Frac -
Just offering a hello and support!
You're still doing so well!
Wouldn't hurt to keep your OWN computer locked, too, and also sweep your car occasionally for a voice-activated recorder.
Puppy
No worries, we're separated. She doesn't have access to any of my stuff nor knows where I live.
Thank you. Most appreciated.
No worries, we're separated. She doesn't have access to any of my stuff nor knows where I live.
she doesnt even care to know where you live?
She didn't ask. I didn't care to tell her.
THis has only been a month, remember?
I agreed to give her time to think things through.
Mmm, OM W deleted me as a friend on facebook.
Would that mean OM lied his way through this successfully?
On the other hand, W hasn't called.
Should I worry?
Worry? No. You can't control OW, and what she decides to do. You gave her the information she needed in order to protect herself, and make her own decisions, and she has to make those.
Would this indicate, to me, that her husband is BS'ing her? Yeah. I think so.
well you can still send her emails even without being a friend on crackbook, it's very possible that he lied to her to save his butt, or maybe he turned it around and made it look like she's cheating with you, if the guy is good with mind games anything is possible.
I would keep sending the evidence to her, if she tells you she doesn't care, you can stop, no harm done.
well you can still send her emails even without being a friend on crackbook, it's very possible that he lied to her to save his butt, or maybe he turned it around and made it look like she's cheating with you, if the guy is good with mind games anything is possible.
I would keep sending the evidence to her, if she tells you she doesn't care, you can stop, no harm done.
Yep -- agreed.
And always make sure the messages are accurate. No pressure. No offers to meet up. Keep everything above the board.
For once its in the wild you have no control over who reads it and retains it.
Remember this always.
And the day she says stop contacting me. Stop.
Would this indicate, to me, that her husband is BS'ing her? Yeah. I think so.
Still, don't you think that puts OM on a leash at least temporarily?
And maybe proved my wife that he won't leave his family?
Would this indicate, to me, that her husband is BS'ing her? Yeah. I think so.
Still, don't you think that puts OM on a leash at least temporarily?
And maybe proved my wife that he won't leave his family?
It could. This is where I like to have intel in place, so that I can know what's going on, rather than guess or mind-read.
who cares. carry on with your plan. Work on your own house. Not theres. Keep with bringing the affair into the light.
I would keep sending the evidence to her, if she tells you she doesn't care, you can stop, no harm done.
The thing is I don't really have that much left. The one I sent was hard hitting, anyway. If she doesn't buy that, she'll only buy pictures of them kissing or something more obvious. I don't have that.
I would estimate, that during my wife's 3-month affair, that nearly HALF the time, what I THOUGHT was going on (from observation, what she was telling me, etc.) was NOT what was REALLY going on (as confirmed by my intel system).
In some cases, had I gone by what APPEARED to be going on, my response would have been devastatingly OPPOSITE of what it SHOULD have been.
It could. This is where I like to have intel in place, so that I can know what's going on, rather than guess or mind-read.
working on that.
I would keep sending the evidence to her, if she tells you she doesn't care, you can stop, no harm done.
The thing is I don't really have that much left. The one I sent was hard hitting, anyway. If she doesn't buy that, she'll only buy pictures of them kissing or something more obvious. I don't have that.
Sounds like we need a new name for this approach -- "The Big-Bird Approach." (as betrayed wife sticks her big ostrich head in the sand . . . )
When she's ready, she'll be ready. All you can do is what you've done.
Puppy
Would this indicate, to me, that her husband is BS'ing her? Yeah. I think so.
Still, don't you think that puts OM on a leash at least temporarily?
And maybe proved my wife that he won't leave his family?
why are you worrying about what he does or lives? or what happens to him?
I only care that he leaves my wife ALONE!
So we can get to arrange things between ourselves!
And now this BF who aided her is moving in town to
be room mates with her so she's not even going have
time to think about this.
It's going to be tough.
I only care that he leaves my wife ALONE!
So we can get to arrange things between ourselves!
And (and this was THE hardest thing for me to get my brain and my will around) . . .
YOU DON'T GET TO CONTROL THAT.For us Martian "fixers," I know that's a hard one to stomach, but it's so true nonetheless.
Puppy
For us Martian "fixers," I know that's a hard one to stomach, but it's so true nonetheless.
Puppy
We need a membership badge for this club. Where can I pay my subscription?
For us Martian "fixers," I know that's a hard one to stomach, but it's so true nonetheless.
Puppy
We need a membership badge for this club. Where can I pay my subscription?
I think if you pay online, they send you a free copy of the swimsuit issue.
Puppy
Yep. OM W blocked me completely on facebook.
That bridge is burnt. I'm really disappointed.
I really tried.
Wait, she changed her mind.
Unblocked but no friends.
Im fine with that
Someone is having a denial crisis.
Poor woman. I feel bad for her.
What makes you think she did it?
Maybe her scumbag h freaked out, got in and did it. No matter.
You could send her one last message saying that you gave her the info, and that if she choses to be in denial, you understand that it is normal at first, but that you have no reason to lie about something like this. Then tell her good luck and that you won't contact her her again.
I did already. Thanks Kimmie.
I only care that he leaves my wife ALONE!
So we can get to arrange things between ourselves!
And (and this was THE hardest thing for me to get my brain and my will around) . . .
YOU DON'T GET TO CONTROL THAT.Puppy
I just wish there was a way to reach out to her. Something.
After I've read this book I've become aware of how unfair this whole
thing is, and it's all happening in her head.
It makes me really sad. I think this is how people living with alzheimer patients feel. It's the same person, but she's not there.
Man, you are WAY different than I was. I went thru a lot of emotions towards my wife, but "sad" wasn't one of them. "ANGRY" was more the norm.
I was sad for my KIDS, and sad for MYSELF, and even sad for my MARRIAGE, but I sure-as-shootin' wasn't sad for my WIFE that she spread her legs for another man.
Maybe it was all the intel I was seeing and listening to.
Puppy
^^^same for me SAD for self (loathing self pitty to be more percise, but thankfully i dumped that quickly as it was no help to me or my kids)
W at one point told me that she could see the anger...true hate anger in my eyes - a look she will never forget.
Puppy, it's just that my wife did a really stupid and bad thing.
But from what I've gather she just thinks she's in love.
The actual physical affair lasted less than 24 hrs because she had to fly back. I haven't confirmed that they had sex actually. She sounds like a teenager in love. not a vixen.
She is intoxicated. Her brain chemistry is fn up with her and she had the misfortune that her BF convinced that this was a good idea.
Not justifying her decisions but I really feel sad for her. This whole thing has been like one of those train crashes where everything goes perfectly wrong.
She's not a bad person. Never has been. She doesn't deserve this. Nor I. That's why I'm sad.
Puppy, it's just that my wife did a really stupid and bad thing.
But from what I've gather she just thinks she's in love.
The actual physical affair lasted less than 24 hrs because she had to fly back. I haven't confirmed that they had sex actually. She sounds like a teenager in love. not a vixen.
She is intoxicated. Her brain chemistry is fn up with her and she had the misfortune that her BF convinced that this was a good idea.
Not justifying her decisions . . .
Yeah, you kinda are, F.
My wife kept saying she "made a mistake" (very much "SCRIPT," btw). Something about this phrase just kept gnawing at me, and then one day when she said it again, I just went off on her:
"A mistake? A
mistake?? No, a one-night-stand, as bad as it would be, would be a 'mistake.'
What you have done is wake up every day for the past "X" weeks (I think it had been about 5 or 6 at that point) and decide to CONTINUE to have an affair, and to lie to me, to our daughters and even to your own parents about it. That's not a 'mistake.' A 'mistake' is when you leave the cordless phone out on the lawn, and it rains, and it gets ruined. A 'mistake' is when you leave your car windows down, and your upholstery gets wet. Those are 'mistakes.' No, (Wife), what you have done is not a 'mistake' but a DECISION, and you KEEP ON MAKING THAT DECISION, EVERY DAY, and it's incredibly disrespectful to our family. Please don't ever use that word with me again, and at least be HONEST WITH YOURSELF about what you're doing here!"
And I walked away.
Puppy
She is intoxicated. Her brain chemistry is fn up with her and she had the misfortune that her BF convinced that this was a good idea.
Yep. And now she has the incredible opportunity -- via a loving, forgiving God and a very loving and forgiving husband -- to ATONE for that mistake, and to make the DECISION -- today -- to "pour the liquor down the drain," as it were.
The
road to reconciliation and healing is a long one, and will be tough. But the
decision is a simple (not "easy") one, made of her own free will. You do her no favors by enabling her "victim" mentality here, F, and I'd strongly encourage you to do more reading about infidelity to better understand what you're dealing with here, because you're not going to be able to effectively operate from a "Oh, the poor dear!" mindset towards your wife in the incredibly difficult days and weeks ahead.
In my opinion.
Puppy
Granted. Bad word. Not mistake, she made an awful decision.
The worst one can made in a marriage. Agree but I can't write
off the circumstances. And yes, I feel incredibly angry at times.
And then I go to the gym and burn that anger. It's there, still.
But today, maybe is seeing this poor woman in denial made
me think how the person inflicting the worst kind of damage
to my wife, it's not OM. It's herself.
If only she'd realise what she's been doing... Hope she does and
it's not too late. That BF worries me a lot.
good book for you both...better for her if she is willing, but check with the vets (Puppy) if they think she is an a place to suggest this type of fed information
"not just friends"
lots of insight on phases of what happened and what is to come from both the wayward spouse and the betrayed spouse.
I don't think she's ready for that yet, but you're right, it IS a great book. The definitive work on EAs.
Puppy
Thank you very much. I'll get that. I've been reading "After the affair" and I think that helped me manage the anger in a more constructive way. I just the chemicals in her brain to stop fogging her judgement. They'll have to wear out eventually.
I hope.
Thanks for the comments and support, Puppy and the rest of you fellas.
I'm going to log off for awhile.
F, I have been following along but not posting. You have done an amazing job.
I feel I need to chime in with what Puppy is telling you from the perspective of someone who just busted an A this past fall and is in the process of the very painful and difficult road to healing the M.
^^^^ Please heed what Puppy is saying to you.
It is tempting to fall into a compassion trap for our WAS because we love them and want them back so badly.
But, you need to stay strong and stand your ground right now. There will be a time for compassion later, when you are stronger and more able to maintain the boundaries that are being formed right now.
Too much compassion right now can lead to getting suckered in to emotional manipulation on her part. She is completely motivated by selfishness right now. She is not the W you have known and loved all these years.
Box that compassion up, put it aside for later.
Now is the time for strength and a firm, unwavering stand.
A 'mistake' is when you leave the cordless phone out on the lawn, and it rains, and it gets ruined. A 'mistake' is when you leave your car windows down, and your upholstery gets wet. Those are 'mistakes.' No, (Wife), what you have done is not a 'mistake' but a DECISION, and you KEEP ON MAKING THAT DECISION, EVERY DAY,
, Puppy
Formerly, I am so proud of you.
Aren't you glad you struck hard and fast instead of namby-pamby trickling out the info?
And if the day comes she walks back and says I want back.
Say NO.
Must be earned
[/b] Please heed what Puppy is saying to you.
It is tempting to fall into a compassion trap for our WAS because we love them and want them back so badly.
But, you need to stay strong and stand your ground right now. There will be a time for compassion later, when you are stronger and more able to maintain the boundaries that are being formed right now.
Too much compassion right now can lead to getting suckered in to emotional manipulation on her part. She is completely motivated by selfishness right now. She is not the W you have known and loved all these years.
Box that compassion up, put it aside for later.
Now is the time for strength and a firm, unwavering stand.
Thanks Rocked. Now, can you go by and post that exact same thing on Pitbull's thread? He needs to hear it too!
Puppy
Thanks Rocked. Now, can you go by and post that exact same thing on Pitbull's thread? He needs to hear it too!
Puppy
i was thinking the same exact thing.....
W sister wrote. She is FURIOUS. Asking me to back off.
Tough stuff to read.
i'm sorry -- I know this stings.
Reply to her "I'm really sorry you feel that way. I love and respect you -- and your entire family -- and this is extremely difficult for me. I'm doing what I feel I need to do to protect myself and to fight for my marriage. I would ask that you support me in that effort, but if you feel you can't, I understand, and this will be the only response you'll get from me on the subject. Love, Formerly"
And then don't respond to her anymore. You don't need to continually defend yourself to her family.
Puppy
Someone is having a denial crisis.
Poor woman. I feel bad for her.
you planted the seed of doubt in her mind,
she read something that will now be in her mind for a very long time. He (OM) may lie to her (OM's W) and tell her it's bs, but just remember, the thought will linger, it has to, it has no other place to go, a tiny amount of doubt will grow, give it time, you didn't expect it to be instantaneous, that wouldn't be realistic. And since people are apparently "watching" them, he will cool his actions a bit and not contact your wife as much because his wife will start asking to check the phone, will start checking his email, start looking for traces of evidence at her end to confirm what you have sent her. While he limits contact with your W, she will get angry because he isn't doing what he promised he would be doing, giving up his W to be with her, and now your wife will have doubts about the OM, he's lying to her now, he's not going to give up his W to be with your W, don't discount the trickle effect that's going on now, just allow it time to do it's job and it will do it's job ;-)
i'm sorry -- I know this stings.
Reply to her "I'm really sorry you feel that way. I love and respect you -- and your entire family -- and this is extremely difficult for me. I'm doing what I feel I need to do to protect myself and to fight for my marriage. I would ask that you support me in that effort, but if you feel you can't, I understand, and this will be the only response you'll get from me on the subject. Love, Formerly"
And then don't respond to her anymore. You don't need to continually defend yourself to her family.
Puppy
Yup.
Your wife's sister needs to butt out,
if she can't understand that you have found out why your wife asked for separation and if she can only see things your wife's way which unfortunately will probably be the case, end the contact with that message and continue doing whatever you need to do, don't let your wife's sister impede your actions.
Yeah, how dare you defend your marriage or call out your feckless wife for her sh!tty behavior.
How would her sister feel if she were in your shoes?
Oh yeah, they never seem to think about that......
Supposedly reasonably intelligent people never seem to think about that......
Interesting...
Sounds like it got back to your wife from the OM and then from your wife to the sister......
This is good....
Funny though that her sister told you it was between you and your wife and now she is butting in. I wonder if she told her sister that it was between you and your wife too?
Obviously this has effected the relationship between your wife and the OM or there would be no reason for you to back off would there? If it was going so well your wife and the OM should now be happy because they can now have each other ..
Telling you to back off means that things are no so great in loverville. The OM must be backing off from your wife and she is confiding in her sister that it is your fault... Hang tough.
Sounds like things are proceeding just perfectly the way it should here.
Her sister wrote an email...
You sure it's her sister that wrote it?
Her sister wrote an email...
You sure it's her sister that wrote it?
hmmm, I like the way you think, Jack . . .
Pup,
We agree to disagree about certain stuations, but I am just as...
devious, careful and crafty as some of you guys here.
That was meant as a compliment. : )
Pup,
We agree to disagree about certain stuations, but I am just as...
devious, careful and crafty as some of you guys here.
That was meant as a compliment. : )
Thank you all for the comments.
It's encouraging to read so many of you saying that these are signs that things are moving in the right direction. I need that reassurance sometimes because I can only see the sht coming at me from where I stand.
Yes, it was my W's sister who wrote the email but it has my W's words and justifications all over it. "You pushed my sister into doing this", "You're involving us just to humiliate her", "You should have talked to her first before involving anyone from the family" etc.
I replied with Puppy's text and one more line about the "talking to her" part.
I said I tried really hard to talk to her and suggested going to therapy, etc (1 month ago) but she wouldn't agree. Instead she got involved with someone else. I went to our place on Saturday and she wasn't there. What else am I supposed to do?
Finally, I said that if my W wanted to say anything, she can contact me directly and stop sending messages through her. I won't read/reply to any of her emails anymore.
GOOD FOR YOU!!!
Puppy
Nice work! I can see you doing many things I wish I had done.
You can't go wrong with Puppy's succinct mantras.
F, I am humbled by your awesomeness!
Thanks Pups, Sgfan and Kim. I'm reading your msgs.
Nothing much has happened.
Just trying to stay busy doing something else. Waiting is a killer.
I know it is. Be cool like Fonzie.
And just ignore the spew you will get from her friends and family. Expect no support and you will not be disappointed.
Have you been able to get the rest of your stuff yet? Would the landlord let you in?
No, I haven't even tried getting those things. There's nothing that I urgently need from there and most are replaceable (should my W turns her wrath to them). Also, I'm saving up that card for later. Showing up unannounced.
Have to say, It's rather strange she hasn't called to say "come and get your sh*t".
I like your list. It does make sense. However, how do you do that when you are sick to your stomach? I am hyper nervous now, gut wrenched. My wife dropped the bomb last Sunday. After 8 years of marriage, of which ~7 were troubled by lack of sexual desire by her. We also argued a lot over small petty things. We did many things to overcome it. Classical marriage counseling, work on our own individual problems (both have depression issues). Now I finally think we are ready as individual to really build a much better relationship. But my wife has had enough, always having the feeling it was her fault not to feel sexual attraction anymore, always feeling bad about the relationship. When she dropped the bomb she simply said that she never felt the sexual attraction ever since we married, never felt the spark anymore, thinks I am boring and the relationship is boring. She loves me as a friend and thinks I am a great father but is sick and tired of having the feeling something is not good an has to change.
I do understand it, because I am a pretty dominant dude, always ready with my opinion. I really started to understand it better about a month ago and started working through DB. But I guess I did not shut up in time because the bomb dropped. Now she said that she does not see any hope or any way out, but is willing to give me my time because I said it is worth to save it and I said that I might have another way. I told her that I understand now what kind of pressure I have been putting on her all these years. So here we are, a couple of days later and I feel her tension. She even told me she was still lying awake not understanding that we talked last Sunday but we still act together as if nothing happened. Yes,we are still in our daily routine of working and taking care of the kids. We even still have fun together with our kids and still joke with each other (we really like each others sense of humor) so these good things are still the same. But she does not seem to notice (yet) that I do not come home grumpy anymore or complain or comment. But if she still feels tension because she is waiting to get out I am afraid it will not help.
We have also been setting up some dates because I had the idea that the last couple of years we did not have much fun because of our busy lives with two small kids (5 and 2) and both with demanding jobs. The first date we had was nice, but I had to ask of course if she liked it in my insecure way......WRONG (your rule #7)!! I know now. Next time I will just go and focus on enjoying the activity myself in stead of focusing on her. But I guess I am breaking rule #9 eh? I really think we can have a good time as long as I stop being needy for reassurances. Also she already agreed on some dates, should I cancel them?
This is what you DO NOT understand...
She is telling you that she isn't attracted to you and thinks she may want out.
You are telling her what YOU want. How YOU have the answer to save it..
The problem with that approach is that she still feels you are being selfish.. It is all about YOU.. You are basically saying to her..."I don't care what you want, give me what I want. I want to work on this, the hell with you and what you feel. Give me what I want. Give me give me give me"
That is why the harder you try to do this with your approach the more you will learn that approach doesn't work. It doesn't get her to love you back. All it does is confirm her position in her own mind. She just goes through the motions. She is thinking.."give me what I WANT"
She seems to want out. Are you willing to give her that?
Sorry, what is this about? I'm confused, what list are we speaking about?
Ok, I understand, Koekie. There might be some confusion.
I think you're referring to the list at the beginning of this thread.
I'd suggest that you start your own thread so it's easier for all the
guys here to offer you advice relevant to your specific situation.
It's really helpful and it's also a very good way to keep track on
your actions.
I wish that your situation gets better.
Keep working on it. You'll get lots of good advice in here!
So I should just go? Leave my kids? Break their hearts too? Of course if nothing changes it would break anyway. But if she wants out, why does she not move out? She is free to do so. It does not seem really fair to me. She wants split but want me to take the first huge pain of cutting myself of from being with the kids daily. If she is so convinced she can do that, no problem with me.
I am sorry, you are right. I cannot find how to do that. Any hints?
Np.
you go to the Newcomers frontpage.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=20&page=1Then select "New Topic" and done.
You write a title and your first post. Try to summarize your
case in that first one.
Good luck.
gucci loafer, I started my own thread:
"is my wife a WAW in mind?"
I would appreciate further comments to my reply to you:
So I should just go? Leave my kids? Break their hearts too? Of course if nothing changes it would break anyway. But if she wants out, why does she not move out? She is free to do so. It does not seem really fair to me. She wants split but want me to take the first huge pain of cutting myself of from being with the kids daily. If she is so convinced she can do that, no problem with me.
Ok, I understand, Koekie. There might be some confusion.
I think you're referring to the list at the beginning of this thread.
I'd suggest that you start your own thread so it's easier for all the
guys here to offer you advice relevant to your specific situation.
It's really helpful and it's also a very good way to keep track on
your actions.
In other words:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7X2_V60YK8 LOL!
Ahh, Puppy. Your brevity never ceases to amaze me.
Wish I could say that to a certain guy in real life, actually.
koekie, not talking about you buddy hehe
I meant my W's OM.
Formerly, I guess there's always exceptions but usually the OM is just a fantasy. What I mean is that the Om is nothing but chemicals and a teenage idea of romance.
It takes time, but reality sets in eventually....
I hear the term "chemicals" thrown about loosely,
"she has those in love chemicals and it's clouding her brain",
she once had those "in love chemicals" for you too,
until you did things which killed the attraction between the 2 of you, aside from busting the affair what will your plans be to start flicking those attraction switches in the opposite direction?
Those chemicals & feelings are not fake, they're real.
You contributed to this regardless if you know it or not.
Thanks, S.
I get what you mean. I've read about it and absolutely believe this is true.
In the case of my wife, it's LITERALLY teenage love. This guy was her teacher when she was 13 or something. She had a crush on him, he had a crush on her (sick, I know). 20 years later, they find each other on FB. Then in real life.
I think half of the world is going to need so much therapy in a few years.
FB is messing up human relationships more than we can tell.
Life is wise. Some things are better leave behind. That's why life moves on.
That's why you can't be friends with everybody, all the time.
I'm off topic here... sorry. So yes, I do hope she finds a way out of that closet she's locked herself into somewhere in her own mind.
Today, I feel really angry at her. So won't say anymore about being sympathetic to her situation.
I agree with that, robx.
That's why I'm trying to GAL, to look good, feel good, etc.
The sad thing is I wasl already planning todo all of that anyway. Before the WAW, before the affair. That WAS our anniversary trip idea, my idea to relaunch the relationship. Start dating again, etc
But she couldn't wait. 1 week, she couldn't wait. She had to find someone else. Patience has never been her virtue. And yes, I take responsibility for letting those feelings fade.
I agree with that, robx.
That's why I'm trying to GAL, to look good, feel good, etc.
The sad thing is I wasl already planning todo all of that anyway. Before the WAW, before the affair. That WAS our anniversary trip idea, my idea to relaunch the relationship. Start dating again, etc
But she couldn't wait. 1 week, she couldn't wait. She had to find someone else. Patience has never been her virtue. And yes, I take responsibility for letting those feelings fade.
she's probably been waiting for years bro,
not 1 week, time to think outside the box ;-)
Also, I don't know what I can be doing about them right now, robx.
I'm not allowed to be in touch with her until when...?
Then I can start doing something more directly about those switches.
years bro,
not 1 week, time to think outside the box ;-)
touché. Won't make any excuses.
Life has been complicated for us, financially, emotionally.
We moved country, were unemployed, that sucked up so
much things but I always felt the love was there. Stronger
than ever. At least that's what she made me feel.
Also, I don't know what I can be doing about them right now, robx.
I'm not allowed to be in touch with her until when...?
Then I can start doing something more directly about those switches.
clean yourself up,
take a look at your existing style: clothes, hair, shoes, etc. and mix it up, go out shopping, treat yourself to some new clothes. If you don't already, start hitting the gym, sweating, working out with weights, some decent intense workouts, get more testosterone pumping in your veins, that will get you feeling better, more aggressive, more assertive, more confident, improved body image will do wonders for your self esteem.
And then..... social interactions with members of the opposite sex.... AKA dating.
Isn't dating cheating a bit? I'm separated not divorced.
Wouldn't that send the wrong message to her? That I simply
don't care about our marriage again? or that I want to get back
at her?
I didn't say hump every skirt that you come in contact with,
social interaction, go out for drinks, dinner, coffee, get used to interacting with the opposite sex, etc.
Yes I said, "DATE", I didn't say find a lover.
Do you want to send her the right message?
Everything you've done so far has been your attempts at sending the "right" message, how has that worked for you? She's seeing another man, and she doesn't want you anymore yet you want her and she knows this. So why not try the opposite, something counter-intuitive and see what happens.
He has been posting here less than 20 days and you're suggestion dating?
You don't see this as a recipe for a bad outcome?
Formerly, you're pretty vulnerable right now. You date and some chick shows you some play, you'll likely end up making several mistakes.
You do that, and you justify her affair in her cotton filled head.
You run the risk of hurting someone who doesn't deserve it.
And just as important, depending on the type of person you are, you might not feel to good about yourself.
Counter intuitive for DBing...by the book is not to be clingy, demanding, confrontation, begging...all that crap. No where does it say Date to make them jealous.
He has been posting here less than 20 days and you're suggestion dating?
You don't see this as a recipe for a bad outcome?
Formerly, you're pretty vulnerable right now. You date and some chick shows you some play, you'll likely end up making several mistakes.
You do that, and you justify her affair in her cotton filled head.
You run the risk of hurting someone who doesn't deserve it.
And just as important, depending on the type of person you are, you might not feel to good about yourself.
Counter intuitive for DBing...by the book is not to be clingy, demanding, confrontation, begging...all that crap. No where does it say Date to make them jealous.
He needs to boost his confidence.
He's clinging to a woman who is currently having an affair, and you're right, no where does it say in DB'ing to date and make them jealous. But let's look at that dynamic, regardless if he wants to admit it or not, he's jealous of the OM, that guy has his wife and he doesn't. The OM isn't pursuing his wife, I'll bet a few bucks that his wife is pursuing the OM. He separated from his wife to give her the space that she wanted and all that did was enable her current ways. Instead of pursuing his wife which just makes her run in the opposite direction, why not move in the opposite direction. If jealousy makes him DB his heart out which is what's happening lately, what would happen if he appeared to be doing the same thing to her? She currently has him and she knows it, if she told him she wanted to work on the marriage tomorrow, he would jump on that opportunity. He's the safe, 2nd option, the backup plan, just in case the affair doesn't work out. Who wants that for themselves? I know I don't, all that would lead to is the same thing happening all over again.
Then flirt.
Crawl before you run.
You could also walk outside and get hit by a truck tomorrow..
You could also have a heart attack tomorrow..
You could also meet someone and hit it off and be as happy as ever..
You could also get back with your wife and not be ready.. If you can't social interact, then how can you say you are ready to get back with your wife? You could also get back with your wife and she could hurt you again. You could also get back with your wife and she finally realizes she loves you and then you decide that you don't want HER. Then you could hurt her..
The moral of the story is..
Go out and socially interact. It is good for you. It will be good for your wife to see. Do it. You don't have to call it dating because that gets people all up in arms. Let's call it social interaction. We socially interact on here. Just go out and socially interact. Let things fall where they fall. Let's not talk marriage or a relationship or hurting someone. Let's get you out there first.
I hear the term "chemicals" thrown about loosely,
"she has those in love chemicals and it's clouding her brain",
she once had those "in love chemicals" for you too,
until you did things which killed the attraction between the 2 of you, aside from busting the affair what will your plans be to start flicking those attraction switches in the opposite direction?
Those chemicals & feelings are not fake, they're real.
You contributed to this regardless if you know it or not.
Robx,
I'm sorry but the blame rarely lies on one person, either the LBS or WAS.
Sure....no one is without sin. But what I am referring to is what state a WAS is in once they get the high of an affair. Like I said, it takes two to make it work and two screw it up, so putting the blame solely on the LBS helps no one. Unless I'm mis-reading your post, you seem to make the LBS totally responsible for the WAS behavior.
I hear the term "chemicals" thrown about loosely,
"she has those in love chemicals and it's clouding her brain",
she once had those "in love chemicals" for you too,
until you did things which killed the attraction between the 2 of you, aside from busting the affair what will your plans be to start flicking those attraction switches in the opposite direction?
Those chemicals & feelings are not fake, they're real.
You contributed to this regardless if you know it or not.
Sure....no one is without sin. But what I am referring to is what state a WAS is in once they get the high of an affair.
if we're talking about an actual physiological change in the body, why does it matter what "state" the WAS is in?
If you kill the attraction with your spouse to the point where they are no longer attracted to you and someone else comes along and flips those attraction switches, you're as much to blame on the situation as the "love chemicals", don't expect those marriage vows to keep her in line. If the number of threads on these forums with WAW's is any indication, those words have little value and staying power.
Formerly, I guess there's always exceptions but usually the OM is just a fantasy. What I mean is that the Om is nothing but chemicals and a teenage idea of romance.
dont kid yourself. its usually because he "does it" for her. he's excitement. i bet you never watched a video about coral reefs or went to the aquarium and took notice of how some fish are red others blue, some have big fins they can expand, others are speedy and quick. its all about attracting a mate. ecology. chemicals, pheromones, enzymatic reactions sure blame it on them. true, the scent of a woman makes me horny. attraction. heck, there are probably multiple genes for having the propensity to desire multiple sex partners as well as smelling so good. lets blame it on watson and crick. mendel even. and fabio.
but, it all comes down to attraction and stimulating desire. and as a male that is your responsibility. enjoy.
btw, good friday is a great night to take someone out for a fish fry. lol.
if you dont like fish, birds are even better, although you never hear anyone say, there are alot of others birds in the sky. interesting thing you can see with birds, if you sit and watch birds long enough, you will notice how when a male comes in to mate with a female and the female isn't attracted to him and they don't do the jamboni off he flies to another part of his territory and another potential mate. they really dont waste time when the gettin' is good. nor do they sit around and wait for the female to change her mind or harass her after she gives the hint. they are busy and life is short. eventually usually she becomes attracted. maybe his colors get brighter or he smells better when he's out being attractive. interesting.
VERY interesting..
Good thing birds work that way or we would need a....
Bird Busting site.....
if we're talking about an actual physiological change in the body, why does it matter what "state" the WAS is in?
If you kill the attraction with your spouse to the point where they are no longer attracted to you and someone else comes along and flips those attraction switches, you're as much to blame on the situation as the "love chemicals", don't expect those marriage vows to keep her in line.
I'm not sure about you, but his is not my experience. I do agree that maintaining yourself is important and respectful to your marriage. But there is more to love and marriage than just chemical attraction, my friend. If it was as simple as flipping a switch to be with someone, would your respect and trust them enough to marry them?
Stay positive.
if we're talking about an actual physiological change in the body, why does it matter what "state" the WAS is in?
If you kill the attraction with your spouse to the point where they are no longer attracted to you and someone else comes along and flips those attraction switches, you're as much to blame on the situation as the "love chemicals", don't expect those marriage vows to keep her in line.
I'm not sure about you, but his is not my experience. I do agree that maintaining yourself is important and respectful to your marriage.
But there is more to love and marriage than just chemical attraction, my friend. If it was as simple as flipping a switch to be with someone, would your respect and trust them enough to marry them? Stay positive.
Alot of what I've learned is from people who believe just that, they can't trust someone enough to marry them. Cheating, infidelity, affairs: physical & emotional, etc. etc. etc. are happening and not just happening, they are the rule not the exception. Long marriages are the exception not the rule. Take a peek at the forums, this is just a taste of what's happening out there. What you call love are in actuality, those "love chemicals", I'm not saying you can't forge a strong bond, an incredible friendship, etc. But how many people are doing that nowadays? How many people are falling into the trap of working more at work, and working less on making a relationship great at home? So what starts out beautiful and great eventually decays into something ugly and dysfunctional with both partners wanting more but not willing to invest in more, both believe that the other partner should be doing more. So what happens when you get attention from an attractive person that you haven't rec'd in a long time from your own spouse? You start to remember how good it felt to be wanted, to be sought after, to be appreciated, to receive affection - those are some pretty powerful motivators for people to look outside their marriage to fulfill those needs/wants.
All I'm saying is observe reality, reality doesn't lie regardless of how distasteful the truth might be, it's still the truth.
If you believe that two people will be held together just because of a marriage certificate and vows exchanged during the wedding ceremony, you are wrong - the fact that this site exists proves this point.
waiting for what? her to come running back to you with open arms and kisses?
you think too much. more action less tought.
ever notice its always the dumb guys with all the girls. the $hit talkers. while guys talking about ecology and bird sex sit home on a thrusday night drinking hand crafted amber lagers and reading wallace stevens.
be a dummy. lol
[quote=robx]
But there is more to love and marriage than just chemical attraction, my friend. If it was as simple as flipping a switch to be with someone, would your respect and trust them enough to marry them?
How do you think you got involved with your spouse?
Is attraction a conscious decision?
You can't choose what you're attracted.
You can have several women in front of you, all different but physically attractive in their own way but you will only be physically attracted to few of them - not all of them, your brain tells you what it likes and you follow, not the other way around.
There are several switches that get flipped, not just one but the simple fact is, you don't get to choose who you're attracted to, it happens. Some can choose to resist those urges and other will choose to NOT resist those urges.
waiting for what? her to come running back to you with open arms and kisses?
you think too much. more action less tought.
ever notice its always the dumb guys with all the girls. the $hit talkers.
while guys talking about ecology and bird sex sit home on a thrusday night drinking hand crafted amber lagers and reading wallace stevens.
be a dummy. lol
If they're the ones with all the girls, why are they the "dumb" ones ;-)
- or could it be because they're just too oblivious to care if these girls stay with them or not and for some reason the women dig that attitude?
your brain tells you what it likes and you follow
I sometimes wonder....
well to be more accurate, it's the part of your brain that is occupied with thoughts of sex,
you know for the average male, that would be something like 99% of the brain LOL!
I agree that working too much was a big factor for bringing the relationship to this. Also intimacy problems.
I do have to say, I was upfront with my W about this. She had been unemployed for 1 year. I told her, listen, things are going to be crazy at work and I need to do this if we want to stay in this country. She was terrified of going back. She said she'd understand and support this.
And about the attraction. Of course, that's a big thing. But works both ways don't you think? She made an effort to look better only when she went on holiday visiting family and old friends. OF COURSE It worked. She looked great but she hardly ever made that effort for the past 12 months for me. She wouldn't even wax her legs.
Like I was saying to Gnosis the other day. My case is chain reaction with all the wrong elements combined. It's like one of those big train crashes documentaries. I can now see how exactly how it happened and how so many things contributed to make this the "perfect" mess.
The working hours, the marriage problems, the Law of Attraction telling my wife "if it makes you feel happy, do it", the OM being her teenage years fantasy, my W's adulterous BF coaching my wife and of course me who hasn't worked in the relationship as hard as he should have.
Still, before we separated I asked her directly if she wanted us to see other people, she said NO. Tears in her eyes. NO. Ok? And she not only did that the minute I left, she chose a married man with two children. That's a decision I didn't make. I assume my responsibility for everything else, not for this. That's entirely hers.
And that's why RIGHT NOW, I feel so angry. Because I realize now, how calculating she's been in the past month. This is not a dumb teenager in love, this is a woman who took advantage of every effort I made in the past 2 months. No consideration whatsoever. She has been infinitely selfish.
Oh and I'm angry at myself for wanting so badly to talk to her.
Off to the gym and other things today. See if that keeps her out of my mind.
if we're talking about an actual physiological change in the body, why does it matter what "state" the WAS is in?
If you kill the attraction with your spouse to the point where they are no longer attracted to you and someone else comes along and flips those attraction switches, you're as much to blame on the situation as the "love chemicals", don't expect those marriage vows to keep her in line. If the number of threads on these forums with WAW's is any indication, those words have little value and staying power.
Um, isn't that kind of where self-restraint, and commitment come in Rob?
Sorry, I call "bullchit" on this one. Being all hopped up on their affair PEAs doesn't excuse the WAS from their behavior, and I'm almost certain that's not what you're trying to say anyway.
Yes, a betrayed spouse is going to have to address their own issues that may have led to killed attraction between them and their wayward spouse. But the actively cheating spouse isn't going to respond to them while they're still having their affair.
Puppy
And that's why RIGHT NOW, I feel so angry. Because I realize now, how calculating she's been in the past month. This is not a dumb teenager in love, this is a woman who took advantage of every effort I made in the past 2 months. No consideration whatsoever. She has been infinitely selfish.
This is where I was trying to get you to go the other day, F -- to tap into a little of this righteous indignation.
Yes, you have to BALANCE that with compassion and -- when it's time -- forgiveness (the "loving" half of the "loving detachment" MWD teaches us to strive for), but what I was hearing from you in that "I feel so sorry for her" b.s. was whole-hog in the other direction.
BALANCE.Puppy
I guess this is where finding someone with shared values comes in. I travel alot for business and own my own company. That was definately a factor in my D. Learning to balance home and business life is a challenge these days, especially these days.
Travelling presents itself with alot of opportunities, for sure but I always made a conscious effort to stay faithful. My job requires me to stay in good shape and look good...and i do. I can remember several times my xw's friends throwing their unhappy selves at me, but I chose my wife always.
In the end, it turned out that she did not have the same strength and personal life issues got the better of her. She just didnt have the strength to work through the hard times and ended up commiting a crime and then having an affair.
Yes I had issues to work on, but I spent a year working on them and turned around..even to her own admission.
Robx, if you look on this forum, there are many folks here who are committed to being faithful...even some who forgive and work it out. You're right, there are a lot of people who let human nature and temptation get the best of them, but they are missing out on something bigger than themselves.
Oh and I'm angry at myself for wanting so badly to talk to her.
Yup! Today is my first day in ages to have really yearned to hear her voice, find out how she's doing, see her smile.
It sucks.
But we must soldier on one way or another.
Oh, jeez.
And if he didn't have a demanding career, she would call him a bum. You can't win this when they start looking around to have an A.
They make up the most repugnant sh!t about their spouses to match what the "love chemicals" are telling them so that they can rewrite history, continue lying, trashing, etc. Repulsive!
I had a very demanding career, working nights for years, and my h KNEW IT! He pursued me anyway, told me how strong, independent, desirable I was, yadda, yadda...and then....once we were married.....
HE GOT PISSY, SAID HE WAS LONELY, AND ASKED ME TO QUIT MY JOB!!
Oh, yeah, THAT would have been a good move.
So please, stop saying that it's never just one person's fault. In more than a few cases, it most certainly IS!
Robx, if you look on this forum, there are many folks here who are committed to being faithful...even some who forgive and work it out. You're right, there are a lot of people who let human nature and temptation get the best of them, but they are missing out on something bigger than themselves.
I didn't say have an affair so I don't know what you are trying to say by "committed to being faithful", all I'm saying is observe reality, follow reality, reality doesn't lie. If you want to cling to marriage vows and believe that your spouse should do the same regardless of crappy marital conditions, disrespect, lack of love, affection and attention, poor sex life, etc. well then you are deluding yourself. Those wedding vows you made to one another are only words, and words WITHOUT actions are just words and when you try to explain away your actions as to why the marriage went sour (ie. long hours, work, kids, money, etc.) you are just making excuses: excuses don't explain and explanations don't excuse. If you could have done better, you should have, plain & simple.
That's reality.
I think the problem with the A, as Kim says is that it's ultimately a one person's decision.
This is what I mean.
When we both moved abroad, it was very stressful for her and she put on lots of weight. I never criticised her because I knew weight, has always being a big issue for her. I didn't find her attractive at the time but I never made her feel bad. I started starting organizing jogging sessions, etc as if it were for me and she decided to join.
At that point, I could have said, f*ck it, we just married and she lets her self go. I'm going to look for another woman. But I didn't. It would have been so unfair for her, right?
I feel the same way now. For the past year I've been depressed, I had to work a lot to get a job and keep it (I was on weekly/monthly contracts) and it has been very stressful. I succeeded in supporting both of us while the recession. It was tough. Now, she's got a job and life was supposed to go back to normal. Oh but she didn't see any of that.
She saw a man she didn't like anymore. Stressed, depressed, ill.
So she made her decision. She found another man. With a wife and two kids.
Robx, I agree that vows are not a blank cheque or a person's property title.
The grass is only greener where you water it.
But if you can commit, why bother getting married?
An affair is walking away, leaving marriage by the back door.
Even if you are so upset with your marriage you should be upfront.
Hearing someone say she doesn't want to be married anymore
is hard but at least is honest. An affair will never be.
If you could have done better, you should have, plain & simple.
that's just it -- I'm not seeing where F could have done much better as it relates to his wife's marital "complaints." Not saying he's a saint, but my read on the sitch (and granted, it's only based on what we read here of his posts -- perhaps Gnosis could weigh in on this, as he knows the sitch better) is that F's wife's gripes are just gaslighting and re-writing of marital history.
We'll have to agree to disagree on whether or not marital vows are "just words."
Puppy
Robx, I agree that vows are not a blank cheque or a person's property title.
The grass is only greener where you water it.
But if you can't commit, why bother getting married?
An affair is walking away, leaving marriage by the back door.
Even if you are so upset with your marriage you should be upfront.
Hearing someone say she doesn't want to be married anymore
is hard but at least is honest. An affair will never be.
People can commit initially,
after a few years though of less than favorable conditions, people tend to want to renegotiate contracts for something better, I don't write the rules, this is human nature plain & simple. Again, commitment is just a word, what are the actions behind it?
very true, and since it's hard to be honest because in doing so we are going to be hurting the other person's feelings, we don't want to feel the guilt associated with this process because that hurts too, so it's easier to lie and have an affair secretly. Again self-preservation is human nature, that's reality, that's why you see this happening as often as it does. Again these aren't my rules, this is just an observation of reality.
very true, and since it's hard to be honest because in doing so we are going to be hurting the other person's feelings, we don't want to feel the guilt associated with this process because that hurts too, so it's easier to lie and have an affair secretly. Again self-preservation is human nature, that's reality, that's why you see this happening as often as it does. Again these aren't my rules, this is just an observation of reality.
Yep -- that's the thought process, alright. And it's
WRONG.
Puppy
very true, and since it's hard to be honest because in doing so we are going to be hurting the other person's feelings, we don't want to feel the guilt associated with this process because that hurts too, so it's easier to lie and have an affair secretly.
Yep -- that's the thought process, alright. And it's
WRONG.
Puppy
That 'thought' process makes my head spin. I cannot relate to that at all.
I guess if you haven't adopted 'keeping your word' as a value, then you wouldn't feel guilty breaking your vow to your spouse, as long as your spouse doesn't know.
I would imagine that would result in a loss of personal integrity and thus, self esteem however. I could only feel good about
me if I left a marriage that wasn't working
before I got involved with someone else.
unfortunately alot of people will only "keep their word" as long as it doesn't cost them anything to do it and if they're getting something out of the deal, when it's no longer profitable to keep your word, some people will take the "easy" (relative term obviously) route and lie & cheat to get out of their commitments and go for something better, people in general will always want something better, people will always want what they don't have, the perception of value and what it means to the individual in question may not make sense to an outsider looking in (ie. LBS) but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to the WAS.
Ok. From the little intel I've gathered my W's take on my actions is that I'm incredibly bitter about her decision to leave me. That's what she's been telling friends and family. I can see her logic.
Is that the emotion we want at this point?
Again, she hasn't called. I'm starting to wonder why? anger? guilt? shame? doesn't care? or maybe because I told her we won't talk until I'm ready?
People can commit initially,
after a few years though of less than favorable conditions, people tend to want to renegotiate contracts for something better
Agree. The key word here is "renegotiate". An affair is not renegotiating. An affair is signing another contract behind the other party's back. It's fraud.
My wife asked me for 1 month to think things through. She used that month to get a lover and then was pondering whether she was better off with him or me. I never agreed to that, did I? It was incredibly unfair and selfish. That part, at least to me, hurts much more than the affair itself.
What the people from the law of attraction are telling my W:
----
If something has hurt you and you're working to forgive it, you are activating it. Forgiveness is almost exactly the same, in fact we would say it IS exactly the same as saying, "I'm going to deactivate this thing that's hurt me." And we would say, the reason that it doesn't go very far and the reason that people struggle so hard with the idea of forgiveness is because they keep digging up the stuff that they don't want and keeping it active in their vibration so that they have a stream of people they have to forgive.
So we would give forgiveness a new definition. We would say, the ultimate way of forgiving is really forgetting; and the ultimate way of forgetting, really is by remembering something you want to remember.
---
So this might answer why she hasn't called.
She's already working towards forgetting me.
Should I do something about it?
Should you change your course of action because of some loony-tunes "Attraction" philosophy?
No.
You told her you would call her when you were ready to talk. Stay the course.
Puppy
Whoa....that is out there, man. Like Pluto! What the hell kind of cult is she involved in???
You are doing good. Great, even. Most of us here did not get with the program and take the advice to heart as quickly as you did.
No matter how it turns out, you are doing the best you can, so you'll know you gave it your best shot.
Breaking radio silence...
Whoa....that is out there, man. Like Pluto!
Hey! I'm from Pluto and I can report that that crap is... like... way further out than my home asteroid (we were downgraded from planet status recently and that SUCKS!)
Frac, I'm still around. Been busy with some shirt. Meant to post yesterday on what Puppy said...
that's just it -- I'm not seeing where F could have done much better as it relates to his wife's marital "complaints." Not saying he's a saint, but my read on the sitch (and granted, it's only based on what we read here of his posts -- perhaps Gnosis could weigh in on this, as he knows the sitch better) is that F's wife's gripes are just gaslighting and re-writing of marital history.
Yeah, I am a bit more "in the Gno" than the rest of you guys.
I don't want this to get to be too long a post... Frac has done the best he could with the cards he has been dealt. I can relate to his being in a foreign country with ZERO IRL support apart from this board. I don't think any of you can fathom the extent of the stress created by those factors. Both on his W and himself.
Overall he is doing well with what he is dealing with and NO CONTACT is the best medicine for him right now.
Frac, as hard as it is, make an effort to block thoughts of your W and what she is saying and doing. The more you dwell on that the more difficult it is going to be to regain your inner-strength. The crap thing is it is going to take time.
RIGHT NOW you are NOT in the correct frame of mind to contemplate the "error of your ways" and mistakes in the M. The Who, What, Where, When, Why and How the attraction was lost discussion is a waste of your energy right now.
Don't try to reason this out because that is the path to insanity.
The BEST thing you can do is bury yourself in work, outside activities: walking, visiting the sites, taking small trips, getting involved with the expat community. i.e. GET BUSY
The rest will fall into place.
What the people from the law of attraction are telling my W:
----
If something has hurt you and you're working to forgive it, you are activating it. Forgiveness is almost exactly the same, in fact we would say it IS exactly the same as saying, "I'm going to deactivate this thing that's hurt me." And we would say, the reason that it doesn't go very far and the reason that people struggle so hard with the idea of forgiveness is because they keep digging up the stuff that they don't want and keeping it active in their vibration so that they have a stream of people they have to forgive.
So we would give forgiveness a new definition. We would say, the ultimate way of forgiving is really forgetting; and the ultimate way of forgetting, really is by remembering something you want to remember.
---
So this might answer why she hasn't called.
She's already working towards forgetting me.
Should I do something about it?
NO.
You shouldn't do anything about your wife trying to forget you.
She can't forget you.
I can guarantee it, the more that she tries to forget you, the more you still stay at the forefront of her mind's thoughts.
You don't forget the past,
you embrace it. It made you who you are today.
How could you ever forget the past?
Do you remember being a kid when you were small, certain times, events, etc. Do you remember going to school? Do you remember your friends in school? Do you remember the kids you didn't like? Do you remember certain teachers? Do you remember certain sports you played? You remember good things and bad things, you will remember bad things more prominently and there's nothing you can do about that, in fact, it's a survival mechanism bred in you to ensure the survival of the human race.
So yeah, I don't think she'll be forgetting you anytime soon. No matter what the people say who happen to channel certain ghosts to instruct the living on how to live a great life try to tell your wife, she won't forget you.
You make a conscious decision to live in the present but you don't accomplish that by having amnesia with regards to your past.
You embrace your past,
you forgive those who have wronged you in the past because holding on to that pain does you no good and living a happy life in the present is where it's at. Forgiving others is actually a gift you give to yourself,
"I won't let what you did to me in the past affect my present and future, I forgive you for what you did because it allows me to let go of that pain & hurt that I've been holding on to"
- And that's it.
Whoa....that is out there, man. Like Pluto! What the hell kind of cult is she involved in???
Jerry Hicks was an Amway distributor in Fresno CA. . . . One of the couples (Amway was very big on married couples) that Jerry recruited into his organization . . . was Esther and her then husband Richard. . . . After a couple of years of working "closely together", Jerry and Esther left their spouses and moved in together, later marrying after the divorce dust settled.
About this time their Amway groups had begun declining, but Jerry and Esther had already started switching their revenue sources to selling tapes and seminars to their Amway down-line organization, and new followers. Jerry was doing generic 'Think and Grow Rich' seminars and that kind of thing. Jerry learned from Amway that there is always a large and financially viable number of people that need to feel involved in a warm and fuzzy clique that holds out the hope of an exclusive path to happiness, a path that is always within sight of the goal but not quite there - so you have to buy some more tapes or attend another seminar.
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,21069,page=1
Thanks as usual, gang.
Pups - Ok. I will stay on track. Thanks for not letting me do something stupid and emotional (after all I'm living the consequences of my W doing exactly that)
Kimmie - What cult? Ok, I'll explain. The Universe is a place of abundance and all you have to do is .... [PLEASE INSERT YOUR CREDIT CARD TO READ FURTHER. VISA, MASTERCARD, AMEX ACCEPTED]
Gnosis - Insanity. You've got it right, that's where thinking about her is leading me. Thanks for breaking the silence to share your clarity and kick my ass back into reality, bro.
Robx - Thanks so much for that. I needed so MUCH to read something like that. Ironically, my W and I favorite film is Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. You're so right.
Dudess - Amway, uh? Interesting. So Esther and Jerry were lovers. That's why they don't say anything bad about infidelity and lies. Of course.
This is an update on me
I tried to get busy and GAL today. Went to the gym (really getting into it), bought fruit, vegs and healthy food, bought new gym and running clothes and shoes, went to get my first contact lens ever (this actually didn't go too well, as I couldn't learn how to get them in/out and hurt my eyes a bit, going back next week), I met a couple of girls not for dating or anything but it was just having a conversation with a stranger and flirt a little bit.
I feel ok. I should feel better. I do feel a bit guilty and all that. We used to do most of the shopping together. We always did. We used to treat ourselves equally. I loved treating her to new clothes/shoes/etc So it feels weird doing this just for me. I know I deserve it and need it. I just need to learn how to feel ok with that. It's a pattern I need to break (I'm re-reading No More Mr Nice Guy just now).
One more question regarding W (sorry).
This is a small-ish city and we live close by so chances are we'll bump into each other at the supermarket, bus, etc How should I handle those encounters?
Smile and say hi?
Just nod?
Ignore her?
And how should I respond if she:
ignores me?
tries to talk or fight?
chases me with a katana blade?
The current situation is draining what she found attractive in him in the first place. It also enpowers the other male.
I am also a fan for doing some non-traditional things, not in terms of payback or creating jealousy, but for restoration.
Whats funny with this world, if enough social mixing and interaction with the opposite sex, but back enough mojo that the wife can find new attraction with her own husband.
I'm also a fan of knocking the OM out of the situation, I discussed in some other recent threads. It should be done or at least attempted.
She will ask for divorce. In my case, she did it maybe as a defence reaction. I didn't accepted, I did not do anything. Exposure to the OMW was enough. Limited sex thu but we are still together thru month #20 and counting.
Good for you. Very inspiring to read successful stories. Thanks.
Sorry to insist but I do need advice on this. Any suggestions? Thx.
One more question regarding W (sorry).
This is a small-ish city and we live close by so chances are we'll bump into each other at the supermarket, bus, etc How should I handle those encounters?
Smile and say hi?
Just nod?
Ignore her?
And how should I respond if she:
ignores me?
tries to talk or fight?
chases me with a katana blade?
one of my rules is not to be an a$$hole,
if they want to be, let them, you can't control them, but you don't have to be. Be civil, in fact I would be happy and say hi but don't go out of your way to find them and say hi to them, if you bump into them, say hi, otherwise go about your business.
Thanks, robx.
I guess if she wants to have an impromtu conversation, I'd go back to my mantras and say: "Right now, I don't have anything to say to you. We'll talk when I'm ready". If she makes a scene "I won't talk with you until we can talk in a civil manner, sorry"
Well, I would play it out in your mind a few times just so your prepared and calm and cool. I would not show any emotion are discuss your state. Just keep it friendly and short...life is good, no worries. Make her wonder. Be mysterious. Your're on your way to a party or something fun and out of character. No details.
Hope this helps!
Thanks, Sg. Mysterious. I quite like that.
Today my W's BF (the one who has been aiding her with the affair) lands into town.I was thinking of confronting her with an email like this:
-------------------------
I know you arrive today.
Two months ago, I told you how happy I was that you'd come to this country and how welcome you were to stay with us for awhile. You see, I considered you my friend too. Today, I don't appreciate at all you been here. I know exactly to what extent you aided my W in her affair with a married man. I know you think, that's what friends do, support each other. Don't fool yourself, you're not supporting her. You are helping her to lie, deceit and destroy two marriages and the lives of innocent children. How sad it is that you didn't learn from your own mistakes. How did your affair help you? 4 years of depression and alcoholism and now you're fleeing the country? Is that what you want for your best friend? Well, make no mistake, I will take every measure to prevent this to happen to my wife and my marriage.
If there's any dignity left on you, stop poisoning my wife immediately. If there isn't well, I only hope you can live with your conscience.
----
What do I want to achieve from this?
1. As my wife hasn't contacted me and is trying to 'forget me' this is a measure to stir the pot.
2. Block whatever message, gift, etc OM has sent with this friend. (hopefully, they'll spend more time talking about me confronting the friend than whatever gift, letter, etc OM has sent)
3. Closure with the friend.
Suggestions/advice?
Thx
REJECT that...
Not good.
Your wife is totally to blame here. 100%...
Ok, not trying to share blame with the BF.
But you see what I'm trying to do here?
Any other way to put it then?
I need closure with that.
I wouldn't do that. It just feeds their drama and that is what they like. It's sick, I know, but it just seems to make them feel important.
Ignore.
Be cool, like Fonzie.
I'll try and be cool and not think about it for the rest of the day.
It's tough. Her being here means, the time for my wife to meditate
on things it's practically over.
The thing is, F, you have only just been bombed less than two months ago. This is very difficult, because this is bound to get a lot worse before it gets better.
But you have been doing so well. Stay cool.
I need closure with that.
NO. You "need" food, water and shelter.
You "prefer" to do that.
Change your thinking. It really isn't a good idea. I highly recommend you don't do it.
It won't give you closure, F.
It will simply fuel the fire....in a BAD way. It will make you look weak when you want to look strong.
Ignore the "friend." Seriously. It might actually bug them more.
This is very difficult, because this is bound to get a lot worse before it gets better.
The thing is, it hasn't got worse. Nothing is really happening. She hasn't called, throw tantrums at me, etc She's blocking any thoughts about me. I worry that when I'm ready to talk, she won't care anymore and has moved on. That's all.
And yes, guys. I see what you're saying about closure.
I want to blame someone else. Just as my wife is blaming me for her own decisions. Not fair. No one can be forced to do something they don't want.
I accept that.
stop worrying about what your wife does,
No Contact would be an excellent thing for you to do right now and would help with these feelings of insecurity that you're dealing with right now,
ie. "I worry that when I'm ready to talk, she won't care anymore and has moved on."
OBSERVE REALITY ...
The thing is, it hasn't got worse. Nothing is really happening. She hasn't called, throw tantrums at me, etc She's blocking any thoughts about me. I worry that when I'm ready to talk, she won't care anymore and has moved on.
Its time you do the same ...
Trust me, time is an investment you are making. It allows you to get stronger and take the situation by the horns. You will be in control of your life and gain self respect and GAL.
When she does see you, she will see someone new and will be curious. Never talk about yourself.
I did this and although it took a while, I'm finally seeing results, although probably too late for us. It's been over two years since my toubles began, so just be patient!
When she does see you, she will see someone new and will be curious.
magic eight ball says ... "maybe"
second shake comes back as "don't count on it"
Observe reality.
Thanks for the constructive feedback, guys.
stop worrying about what your wife does,
No Contact would be an excellent thing for you to do right now and would help with these feelings of insecurity that you're dealing with right now,
ie. "I worry that when I'm ready to talk, she won't care anymore and has moved on."
Sorry, it's not that I'm not trying. It's just hard to find the right optimist/pesimist balance. I'm trying to put most of my energy in GAL right now.
One more here saying to completely ignore friend. It will not be productive and only bad would come from it. Take care of yourself.
When she does see you, she will see someone new and will be curious.
magic eight ball says ... "maybe"
second shake comes back as "don't count on it"
Observe reality.
haha. With a WAW is there reality?
In any case, whether it matters or not to the WAW, your are still working on you and that is what will get you through if it works out or not. Aim high, shoot low.
You're getting good advice. I've got nothing more to add. We've discussed this all before.
You are forgetting something VERY IMPORTANT Frac... You say she has not thrown tantrums, called etc. For a woman who was so determined to tell you it was over and start on the path of separation or divorce... she is very quiet. Leave her in her own confusion, her own mind is twisting. Why else would she be reaching out on her LoA forums for advice. Eventually she is going to need to contact you.
Remember this is a mental war. Just like you're wondering what is going on in her mind she is doing the same with you. The "silence" is something you're both going to have to fight. That's why I told you that you need to keep busy. Plan your activities, find new things you want to do. Bury yourself with work.
And what happened to that agreement we had that you will only dedicate ONE hour of your day to thinking about her? Stick to it, I know you can. Until the pain eases to a dull ache you are not ready to talk.
So, I have a txt message today from my W's cousin.
He tells me, that he's not willing to get involved in the unpleasant accusations between me and my W but that he's concerned for my health and well being. He asks me if I'm still doing therapy, etc. Basically he wants me to let him know how I'm doing.
I trust him but of course but, whatever I reply will definitely reach my W at some point.
I was thinking of replying:
I sincerely appreciate your concern for my well being. I'm happy to say I'm good. The therapy has helped me a lot and my health is also much better. I know this situation has been extremely unpleasant for all of us and I'm sorry for any discomfort that I may have caused to you and the family. You know I love and respect you all. All I can say is that I'm doing what I feel I need to do to fight for my marriage and protect my wife. Thank you for maintaining your objectivity and not getting involved. Love, F.
I think that's
PERFECT. Puppy
So, I have a txt message today from my W's cousin.
It's touching that he is concerned for your health. At this point you I'd say be a little cautious about trusting him because he has not done anything to gain your trust. It is safer to err on the side of caution.
I was thinking of replying:
I sincerely appreciate your concern for my well being. I'm happy to say I'm good. The therapy has helped me a lot and my health is also much better. I know this situation has been extremely unpleasant for all of us and I'm sorry for any discomfort that I may have caused to you and the family. You know I love and respect you all. All I can say is that I'm doing what I feel I need to do to fight for my marriage and protect my wife. Thank you for maintaining your objectivity and not getting involved.
I'd refrain from providing too much information at this point. The status of your therapy is personal and confidential.
My reply would be:
"Cousin, thanks for your concern. Surprisingly I've achieved clarity and I'm doing pretty well. Things are falling into place and I've found a new lease on life. I apologize for any discomfort you're feeling, however as you know I was not the instigator. We play the cards we are dealt. Thank you for your support and the stance you have taken."
The above message is vague and inspires curiosity. This is what you want in case it gets back to your W. You do not need to repeat that you are fighting for your marriage. You said this before. You do not need to repeat that you are fighting for your W. You have said that before too.
That's my take.
Another update.
Because of work I have to meet with a very good friend of my W next week. She's married. We used to go out a lot with them as couples. Now, both her husband know my wife's version of the separation.
She sent me an email saying that she just wanted to tell me that she expects that our meeting will be 100% about work because neither she or his husband want to be involve in whatever decision WE took (pls note the WE). She tells me they're both aware that I have been contacting family and close friends of my W (not true about the friends) to reveal "details" and personal stuff and that they're not interested.
She says they have appreciation for both of us independently and just don't want to get involved.
I'm wondering if at some point I should tell her that while I'm not interested in revealing any details I think it's fair for her to know that this is by no means is a decision WE took. It's entirely my wife's. I never had a say in this. And lastly, as a married woman, I want to ask her to understand. How would she feel if one day, out of the blue her husband tells her it's over? Wouldn't she fight for her marriage? Well, that's all I'm doing.
Does that sounds fair?
Thanks a lot, Pups and Gnosis.
I'm sending a vaguer msg
Another update.
Because of work I have to meet with a very good friend of my W next week. She's married. We used to go out a lot with them as couples. Now, both her husband know my wife's version of the separation.
She sent me an email saying that she just wanted to tell me that she expects that our meeting will be 100% about work because neither she or his husband want to be involve in whatever decision WE took (pls note the WE). She tells me they're both aware that I have been contacting family and close friends of my W (not true about the friends) to reveal "details" and personal stuff and that they're not interested.
She says they have appreciation for both of us independently and just don't want to get involved.
I'm wondering if at some point I should tell her that while I'm not interested in revealing any details I think it's fair for her to know that this is by no means is a decision WE took. It's entirely my wife's. I never had a say in this. And lastly, as a married woman, I want to ask her to understand. How would she feel if one day, out of the blue her husband tells her it's over? Wouldn't she fight for her marriage? Well, that's all I'm doing.
Does that sounds fair?
No it doesn't sound fair.
You're rallying for support from friends on this and just as you saw with your wife's family, it doesn't work, it doesn't ever work. It's a very uncomfortable place to be in for them if they care about the both of you and if you're a friend you wouldn't want to make them feel uncomfortable. Trying to make others see your side of the story is controlling, let it be, be a good friend, don't make them uncomfortable. If they want to know more about the situation, let them ask you but don't force your version of the situation on them, as you can see, they've already too much and they don't like what they've heard thus far.
Let it be.
Otherwise you risk losing more friends.
She sent me an email saying that she just wanted to tell me that she expects that our meeting will be 100% about work because neither she or his husband want to be involve in whatever decision WE took
She was your W's friend first and she has taken her side. Do not reply. At the meeting treat her cordially. No hugs, no kisses. If she wants business then treat her like you would any other person you do business with.
She says they have appreciation for both of us independently
That is a lie and you know it. If she had appreciation for you then she would at least want to hear your side. They may not want to get involved and that's OK.
I'm wondering if at some point I should tell her that while I'm not interested in revealing any details I think it's fair for her to know that this is by no means is a decision WE took. It's entirely my wife's. I never had a say in this. And lastly, as a married woman, I want to ask her to understand. How would she feel if one day, out of the blue her husband tells her it's over? Wouldn't she fight for her marriage?
It serves no purpose to provide your viewpoint. She and her H have made their decision. She has chosen your W's side. Defending yourself, pleading for understanding, trying to guilt her will create the perception of weakness and neediness. Every message that gets back through to your W should be one of "happy and enjoying life." You don't need to explain yourself to a stranger.
I'd suggest keeping to the agenda of the business meeting. When it is done, and just before you leave, look her squarely in the eye and say, "I'm disappointed in you. I always figured you for an unbiased and fair person who would listen to both sides and make an objective decision. I hope this does not extend to your work ethic." Then leave. You have nothing more to say. You do not need to explain yourself and you kept your word to keep the meeting business.
Oh, and no email reply necessary to assure her about anything.
So, I have a txt message today from my W's cousin.
It's touching that he is concerned for your health. At this point you I'd say be a little cautious about trusting him because he has not done anything to gain your trust. It is safer to err on the side of caution.
I was thinking of replying:
I sincerely appreciate your concern for my well being. I'm happy to say I'm good. The therapy has helped me a lot and my health is also much better. I know this situation has been extremely unpleasant for all of us and I'm sorry for any discomfort that I may have caused to you and the family. You know I love and respect you all. All I can say is that I'm doing what I feel I need to do to fight for my marriage and protect my wife. Thank you for maintaining your objectivity and not getting involved.
I'd refrain from providing too much information at this point. The status of your therapy is personal and confidential.
My reply would be:
"Cousin, thanks for your concern. Surprisingly I've achieved clarity and I'm doing pretty well. Things are falling into place and I've found a new lease on life. I apologize for any discomfort you're feeling, however as you know I was not the instigator. We play the cards we are dealt. Thank you for your support and the stance you have taken."
The above message is vague and inspires curiosity. This is what you want in case it gets back to your W. You do not need to repeat that you are fighting for your marriage. You said this before. You do not need to repeat that you are fighting for your W. You have said that before too.
That's my take.
Yes, this is much better, for the reasons Gno states.
Puppy
I'm wondering if at some point I should ...
wait until something is said BY SOMEBODY ELSE about it and respond with,
it is what is it. I have said too much already. there's nothing to talk about.
I agree. Listen to your friend and respect their wishes. I know it is very hard. You want to shot your side of the story at the top of your lungs. I wanted to do it when all of my W's friends were thinking that I was the sole problem in the marriage and the reason for the seperation.
However, my W is now thanking me for not saying anything to her friends or mine. None of my friends know that we were ever seperated (only my family). She is now able to comfortably join me with our friends.
If things change in your sitch; reconcilliation will be easier the less people know.
And there will always be time to explain your side of the story with those who matter...
Ok. I sent the reply to the cousin as suggested by Gno and Pups.
This meeting with the friend might not actually happen. I'll keep you posted.
Thank you all for the advice and support.
My GAL process continues. I went to my company's party yesterday and it was lots of fun. Met new people, talked to lots of good looking girls, etc Got many compliments on my new look. Didn't think about my W until the very very end when I was walking home on my own. Other than that, cool.
New haircut, new contact lens and the early results of workout on my body are charging me with confidence. Of course, it still hurts and I still wonder about my W but everyday, it's less than the day before.
I'll be fine.
I've never doubted that for a minute.
Good stuff on the new look and style.
Ok. I sent the reply to the cousin as suggested by Gno and Pups.
This meeting with the friend might not actually happen. I'll keep you posted.
Thank you all for the advice and support.
My GAL process continues. I went to my company's party yesterday and it was lots of fun. Met new people, talked to lots of good looking girls, etc Got many compliments on my new look. Didn't think about my W until the very very end when I was walking home on my own. Other than that, cool.
New haircut, new contact lens and the early results of workout on my body are charging me with confidence. Of course, it still hurts and I still wonder about my W but everyday, it's less than the day before.
I'll be fine.
I like the sound of the changes,
it's not an overnight process but it does have to begin somewhere and it's the same with the detachment process, you won't get over the hurt overnight but eventually you will become stronger and more confident as each day passes, you'll find that attractive guy you started out as and when you become him 100% you will be thankful and realize you should never have lost sight of him in the first place, it's a tough less but a lesson worth learning.
Right on, Gno!
Good job, F.
It is glaringly obvious that the w's "friend" already IS involved and taking w's side because of her terseness toward you. She "doesn't want to get involved...." how disingenuous could she get? Lying beotch!
Be minimally polite while giving her NOTHING!. I bet you anything she will press, ever so subtly, for details from you so she can run back to your w. AND....she will be very defensive of your w.
Doesn't want to "get involved" MY ASS!
Did I mention: GIVE HER NOTHING!! Change the subject to the weather. Trust me, she will press for the details she says she doesn't want to hear from you.
LMMFAO!!!
Have fun with her and keep changing the subject. Do your best Jedi Mind Trick with the LYING BEOTCH!!
Will follow your advice guys, Thanks.
Today I was so busy I didn't spend any time thinking about this until now.
Next week it's going to be incredibly busy but fun. I'm going abroad on a business trip to a place I've never been before. I'm really looking forward to it.
Really feel like I'm moving on. Slow, as Robx say, but steady.
Next steps
I will continue GAL consistently. Next week provides me with many opportunities to do so and concentrate in other things. I'm starting to get to the point where I can think about my W and I don't let my feelings overwhelm me.
Question
I had a brief chat with a friend in common and she tells me that my W says she's "very busy but also very happy and focusing on the positive".
Is "happy" a normal state of a WAW whose affair has been exposed? Of course, she might be happy because her BF moved in but it also might be because the affair is still going on. (BTW, my W finally changed her other email account's password right after the BF arrived. This suggest she told my W details of the evidence I used to expose to OM's W).
In any case, I understand how I can't do anything about her "happiness". In fact, I'm ok with her happiness but I wonder if something in the plan isn't quite working.
A good friend suggested stirring things up a little i.e. let her get a missed call from my cellphone number. When she calls back later, I don't answer.
I had some other ideas.
Show up at unexpected places, doing unexpected things, i.e. Once a week change my commute to work so every now and then we bump into each other. New clothes, new look and contact lenses should do the talk.
Or, right at the end of the meeting with my W's friend, say I can't stay longer and leave for lunch with an attractive female co-worker.
I don't know about you but I'm not seeing this as "pursuing" since I don't intend to talk or approach my W. You have to remember, since we don't live together, I have no other way to show the new, more confident, fit and mysterious me. I understand it's important that I make her curious and wonder.
I don't know if those are good ideas but right now, I'm considering them because last time she tried to contact me was March 27. That's 15 days.
Apart from exposing the affair, I haven't had proper contact with my wife since Feb 24.
Am I getting too impatient?
Yes, you are getting impatient. Stay cool. You have been doing great! Go abroad and enjoy.
Also, forget about the contrived "coincidental" meetings. A waw will see right through this.
I will add though that happy people just "are," they don't feel the need to convince everyone.
Thanks for the reply, K.
You do get my point about how's she supposed to be curious and see any changes if we don't live together? Out of sight out of mind.
I do get your point, but you have already made changes proving that you are standing up for yourself and your marriage. She can't help but notice that you aren't dancing to her tune anymore.
How's she going to notice apart from the exposing? She's even blocking me on facebook
It's an honest concern.
Just to reassure you, that doesn't change the fact that I'm keeping myself busy. I joined a basket ball team. It's been ages since I've been in activities with other males. With my W it was always about couples. So it's good.
Today also so I'm going to a BBQ with a friend. She's introducing me some new people. It'll be interesting.
I'm posting pictures from my new experiences on facebook but again, she'll never find out. She blocked me and deleted all of my friends from hers.
I had some other ideas.
Show up at unexpected places, doing unexpected things, i.e. Once a week change my commute to work so every now and then we bump into each other. New clothes, new look and contact lenses should do the talk.
Or, right at the end of the meeting with my W's friend, say I can't stay longer and leave for lunch with an attractive female co-worker.
I don't know about you but I'm not seeing this as "pursuing" since I don't intend to talk or approach my W. You have to remember, since we don't live together, I have no other way to show the new, more confident, fit and mysterious me. I understand it's important that I make her curious and wonder.
I don't know if those are good ideas but right now, I'm considering them because last time she tried to contact me was March 27. That's 15 days.
Apart from exposing the affair, I haven't had proper contact with my wife since Feb 24.
Am I getting too impatient?
Yes you are too impatient.
Your goal isn't to show her the new, more confident, fit and mysterious you. Who told you that?
You don't sound confident btw.
You are worried about the amount of time lapsing between your last contact with her - that's your insecurity and neediness talking, not confidence. Being mysterious.... well you won't accomplish that by bumping into her accidentally on purpose. Why is it important to make her curious and wonder? Who told you that?
Get a real life.
Not a fake one put up for display so that your wife can see you and all of your glorious changes and frankly by the way you're talking, I don't see many changes, I still hear someone who is insecure.
Get a real life.
Get ready for social interaction with the opposite sex.
And start forgetting about your wife for the time being.
She'll pop her head up when it's time for her to do so, not on your predetermined time table.
I think he is getting a life, robx, he's just verbalizing here what goes through his mind. And that's better than verbalizing it to his w.
A lot of us have a hard time and are white-knuckling it at first.
But, F, robx's advice is sterling. Just steady as she goes.
I know, I was there ;-)
- and we need constant reminders to keep us grounded ;-)
Stay the course...lots of great advice!
It's all about layering. She may not see everything you are doing, but it is always one or two small things that she will notice. This will lead to curiousity and she will look more closely. If interest grows, sh will peel off the layers and begin to notice more and more. If she does come back, it's the deeper layers that make the difference...so make sure you stick with the changes you make.
I appreciate your sincerity and respect your opinion, robx and Kim.
I've taken it all to heart.
All I'm going to say it's pls judge me for my actions and not for the questions that I ask.
I want to learn from this. Not just to follow a recipe. And learning means I tell you what's the situation is, ask questions, listen to your opinions and make the best decision. And yes, they'll be a lot of stupid questions so please bear with me.
The changes are real. I've been out socializing with the opposite sex, taking care of myself, keeping busy, etc . Small steps maybe but all in the right direction.
It's unfortunate that it doesn't show in my writing but, I do feel and look more confident. People have been complimenting me on that too.
Who told me that she needs to be aware of the changes and that I need to appear mysterious and new to her? Almost every book and piece of advice I've been given.
"You need to start doing things that are out of character for the way you've been acting lately, become more upbeat in your partner's presence. You need to appear pleased with yourself and your own life (...) Start being less predictable (...) You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening (...) You should pull back and wait to see if your spouse notices".
From DB.
It's a legitimate question to ask: How is she going to notice if don't live together, see each other facebook, etc?
Now, that leads me to this:
She'll pop her head up when it's time for her to do so, not on your predetermined time table.
I'm confused now. That means she's in control. The way I saw it was, I was the one who told her "We'll talk when I'm ready".
Anyway, that doesn't change the fact that she is not behaving in the way you and me were expecting. No calls, no attempts to make contact. Silence.
It's not about ME NEEDING her to do any of that. All I'm saying is that according to the plan and to other threads I've read, this is highly irregular and it's a legitimate concern to have.
Hey Formerly, just wanted to let you know that your W could still see you on Facebook if you allow your page to be viewed by everyone. Just go to settings and you'll see where you can manage who can see your page...friends, friends of friends, everyone, etc. If you select "everyone", she will be able to view it...as would anyone else. I'm sure she would check out your Facebook page out of curiosity.
Thanks, dude. I did that long ago.
She's blocking me, though so neither she or me can see each other.
She also deleted all of my friends from her FB.
Oh, I thought even if she blocked you, that she could still see your FB page?
She might set up a second FB account under a different name to view your page?
Sounds unlikely but of course, everything she's done so far seemed unlikely.
She appears to be determined to forget about me ASAP so she's blocking everything in her life that reminds her of me and covering it all with "happy thoughts".
Oh, I doubt she'll be forgetting about you. It seems more like she's frantic to cover her tracks now. So, see? She has reacted to an action you took.
You are in control of the only things that you can be: your own actions and reactions.
Heh....you're doing fine.
And I do believe that you are GAL'ing for real, not fake. And she has already noticed changes in you. I'm sure she didn't expect that you would alert om w.
Stay dark for awhile. She can't control that. You have more power than you think.
Thanks, Kimmie
I do have more power than I think.
I must remember that.
Hey F,
I think you're spot on about there not being any single recipe to work in this situation. But there's definately many years of experience here that will and has helped. All the great perspectives and advice here made such a difference in my life.
It may be too late for me, but you still have a chance and it looks like to me that you are getting control of your life and I guarantee your wife sees it.
Don't quit!
there's definately many years of experience here that will and has helped.
Absolutely. And that's why I respect and do my absolute best to follow that advice:)
I'm not quitting. At this point that'll be suicide. I know this is my last shot and believe me, I'm doing my very best.
The only frustrating bit sometimes is to learn that the Queen is still happily locked in the castle, throwing a party and has shut every window to me and my picnic.
I understand that I can't control that. No contact and GAL are the only things I can control right now. I'm moving on with that. Still, I'm only human.
So just to be clear guys.
Making my facebook public, good or bad idea?
I'm uploading pictures of myself my new experiences.
That's itself something I never did before. In 2 years I've
never uploaded a picture of me.
Does it break the "going dark" code?
F! I haven't checked in in awhile. How are ya???? Quick HUG
So just to be clear guys.
Making my facebook public, good or bad idea?
I'm uploading pictures of myself my new experiences.
That's itself something I never did before. In 2 years I've
never uploaded a picture of me.
Does it break the "going dark" code?
I don't think this breaks the NC. Because if she goes to your FB, you aren't pursuing her. I did the same thing and like you I though my xw wouldnt notice. Come to find out she was mentioning things on my FB to our friends.
Thank, Sgfan. Will keep it that way then.
It's pretty quiet around here, these days huh?
Hope my previous questions didn't upset anyone...
F
Hope my previous questions didn't upset anyone...
Nope. Still watching your thread. When something serious happens and you need urgent feedback people will pop up.
It's reassuring to read that my W making no contact is no serious issue then.
Thank you, Gno.
F, for now there is nothing more you can do. You cannot control her. What I can guarantee you is this: "You have not heard the last from her." That I can guarantee 299%.
In the meantime the only thing in your control is to live your life for yourself. Work on your career and on making yourself happy. What usually happens is: the moment you are ready to "drop the rope" and move on with your life without her... that's when the WAW makes an appearance, just to stir the pot and pull you back into her mess. When that time comes... you will have a clear mind and will be able to decide if she is worth your time or not.
So, do what you need to do to detach and let go of the outcome. If you're a religious man, pray and turn her over to God. Leave her in His care while you work on yourself.
F, for now there is nothing more you can do. You cannot control her. What I can guarantee you is this: "You have not heard the last from her." That I can guarantee 299%.
In the meantime the only thing in your control is to live your life for yourself. Work on your career and on making yourself happy. What usually happens is: the moment you are ready to "drop the rope" and move on with your life without her... that's when the WAW makes an appearance, just to stir the pot and pull you back into her mess. When that time comes... you will have a clear mind and will be able to decide if she is worth your time or not.
So, do what you need to do to detach and let go of the outcome. If you're a religious man, pray and turn her over to God. Leave her in His care while you work on yourself.
Great advice, Gno. And so hard for us to do as men. We are naturally "fixers," and problem-solvers. But you're absolutely right.
Puppy
And so hard for us to do as men. We are naturally "fixers," and problem-solvers.
It IS HARD, and it's the one of the most difficult things to do. F, this is grueling experience talking. The words are easy to say... and even though your mind knows it... it is a mission to get your heart to comply.
And this issue is not only limited to men. Women have the save problem.
The fastest way I've found to get there is to throw yourself into your work, sports, gym and social activities. The downtime when you're alone and your mind is left to wonder is a killer.
This quote from the movie
The Shawshank Redemption sums it all up very nicely:
You can get busy LIVING or you can get busy dying
Hey there F. Even though I haven't posted here before, I have been following your story since you started and I can tell you that you are doing an awesome job. I must say that at times I found myself pretty emotional about your situation. It's never easy seeing someone go through such a heavy time.
The other posters are right when they say that she will contact. I know from experience. When my WAW first left and I found out she had another man, I told her I didn't want to ever speak to her again. And I meant it. Well she couldn't help it. She phoned me, texted me, and I ignored her. She got upset about it and started calling me a wimp etc but I didn't take the bait. Needless to say, all the advice you have heard is true in many situations. Yes she got nasty and then she got nice. All manipulative tactics that never worked with me.
Although she is not asking me to get back with her, I know she wouldn't anyway. She is too proud and insecure to risk a rejection.
That being said, I just wanted to show from my experience that when you shut the door on her access to you, all of a sudden there is a curiosity inside her that stirs and wonders how you are. Her love for you may even form in her once again, but don't revolve your life around that hope.
Gnosis is right.."get busy living" (that has been my favourite quote for years).
Keep pushing through mate, you are doing brilliantly.
Thanks Gno, Puppy and Danno.
Encouraging words. I needed that.
I'm off for the rest of the week.
I won't expect anything to happen.
If it does, I'll post it.
See ya soon.
A watched pot never boils, and all that rot.
F, you are doing so good with this DB thing. Most posters here did not get on the stick as fast as you did.
In fact, there are so many still here who ask for advice, ad nauseum, and won't take it; then come back whining some more, more advice ignored....
I quit reading their threads because it is so painful to see all the good advice be ignored, along with the inevitable excuses and back-sliding.
I mean, really, no one said this would be easy. It's the hardest thing I ever did, and my M was not saved. Yours may not be saved either, but you will be ok.
And you will be ok because you at least tried to save your marriage. You will be ok because you are not some lying, cheating, betrayer who is caught up in some lame-@ss new-agey bullsh!t. You will be ok because you are not trying to justify some sh!tty bevavior.
Seriously, no matter what, you will be ok.
I like it Kimmie
Reporting from abroad.
All good. It was supposed to be a business trip but it turned out to be a holiday. 5 Stars hotel, great restaurants, lots of partying. Traveling around different countries. All round a great adventure paid by my client.
So this all has helped me. I haven't obsessed about my W and what she's been up to. I haven't checked her FB since I'm here. Sometimes I get pretty anxious but I just go for a walk, find something interesting to do, etc
I've been getting LOTS of female attention. I think I'm doing ok but I do have to say that I feel really guilty about flirting with them. I still love my W. I can't change that and sometimes I have this stupid guilt as if I was cheating on her, about not being able to see her in the eye, etc and I forget she already cheated on me.
I guess I'm just being careful of not making a stupid mistake just to "even things". Although lots of people have suggested that I do that. It'd only make feel bad, I think.
Overall, I'm good. No word from her of course but I'm good.
I guess I'm just being careful of not making a stupid mistake just to "even things". Although lots of people have suggested that I do that. It'd only make feel bad, I think.
I would not be one to suggest that. Know who you are and trust your own value system. You are the one that must live with yourself. Just because you get advice, doesn't mean you must heed it. Think of the person you would like to be and do what he would do.
You are doing well Formerly. Enjoy your holiday. I am not sure where you are, but take advantage. You never know when you will get the opportunity again.
-T
I'm stranded in Europe because of the vulcano eruption.
There's a chance I have to go back home by train and
that means spending time several cities, I've never been
or had ever planned to visit. I'm having a great time in the
middle of what could be seen as a nightmare.
Lucky lucky Form!
Which cities are you gonna get a snapshot of?
I have work colleagues stranded, and as a small aside am hoping that the air transport network will be so messed up for the next 2 weeks trying to recover that my STBXW and her OM can't go on the holiday they booked. Small turn of karma if that happens!
Potentially Stockholm, Denmark, Berlin or Cologna, Brussels, Paris and maybe Amsterdam. It's going to be crazy but this is what I need right now
and I'm loving every minute of it.
I really hope that this air traffic chaos serves your plans, mate.
Well boo hiss on the skies returning to normal in terms of a bit more infidelitus interruptus.
Did you have a wonderful time Formerly?
I really enjoyed Stockholm and Brussels last time I was in Europe, particularly the old quarter of Stockholm.
I had a good time overall. Didn't go to brussels in the end but Paris.
Tough one. Paris is where we spent our first anniversary and this time
somehow I managed to walk into some of the backstreets and ended up
right in the restaurant when we celebrated it and the creperie where we
had dessert. Tough.
In the end, I think I managed to accept the fact that those were amazing
moments that no affair or even divorce will ever take from me. I love them.
I love that I get to live them. But it's time to move on. That person who I shared them with no longer exists. No point in feeling nostalgic about them.
I survived Paris and I'm proud.
Good work Formerly.
I had similar experiences driving past the castle where we got married, and the beach we spent our last fantastic holiday together with the dog before he died.
I'm dreading our first anniversary in a couple of months time. We never even made it that far, and it's just going to be replaced with "Legal Separation Day" instead.
You've handled it all really well. I like your thinking and will try and use similar ideas myself. You deserve to be proud and holding your head up high.
I love this scene in the movie Adaptation, almost in the end:
------
Charlie Kaufman: There was this time in high school. I was watching you out the library window. You were talking to Sarah Marsh.
Donald Kaufman: Oh, God. I was so in love with her.
Charlie Kaufman: I know. And you were flirting with her. And she was being really sweet to you.
Donald Kaufman: I remember that.
Charlie Kaufman: Then, when you walked away, she started making fun of you with Kim Canetti. And it was like they were laughing at *me*. You didn't know at all. You seemed so happy.
Donald Kaufman: I knew. I heard them.
Charlie Kaufman: How come you looked so happy?
Donald Kaufman: I loved Sarah, Charles. It was mine, that love. I owned it. Even Sarah didn't have the right to take it away. I can love whoever I want.
Charlie Kaufman: But she thought you were pathetic.
Donald Kaufman: That was her business, not mine. You are what you love, not what loves you. That's what I decided a long time ago.
-----
I'm deciding that now.
That is fabulous.
I'm struggling today - a bit of cabin fever after a day alone at home.
I still haven't made it as far as you in terms of being able to look back on our wedding and happy times together without feeling anger, hurt and waste has occurred.
I hope to get there one day soon.
You will. Have faith. It's a process, go through it. Embrace it.
Now, go outside, don't stay home. Force yourself to do so.
The weather should be good this time of the year.
Make any excuse, anything will do, grocery shopping, gym or just go for a walk. Listen to upbeat music, something yours, nothing that makes you think of your W. For example: My W used to hate electric guitars so now I play lots of metal on my ipod. Reminds me of my teenage years when I was so full of possibilities. Makes me feel that way again. I'm loving that.
You'll struggle no doubt about it but there's no other way to do it. Be strong.
You know you can handle this.
Now, me, I'm not there 100% yet but I'm doing my best and I'm confident I will get there soon.
So a lot has happened even if it doesn't show in my stitch.
I can now see so many possibilities in my life that I didn't realize one or two months ago. Other women showing interest in me, job offers from other countries, I done things that I always wanted to do but never dared to, etc. And most importantly, I can now accept that I will be fine with the outcome whatever it is. I will be able to handle it just as I'm handling this now.
Still no word from her but you know what? I don't let that bother me anymore. Maybe she's just being respectful of my wishes (We'll talk when I'm ready) or maybe she just doesn't care anymore. Fine by me.
I told my wife we'll talk when I'm ready and everyday I can feel more and more that I am. It might not sound like I am to some of you, but that's how I feel. I'm ready to move on with or without her. Yes, I do love my wife but the person that I think I love hasn't given any signs that she still lives in this planet.
Next month will be my last in this apartment and I need to make a decision, whether I find a new place (I'll need to sign a 1 year contract) or we talk and see where things are. If things don't go well, my name is on the lease so I'm entitled to move back to the old apartment and ask her to move out. BF included.
This is where my MIND is right now. Please, don't take it as if I'm already acting on this. I'm asking for your opinions.
Thank you.
Next month will be my last in this apartment and I need to make a decision, whether I find a new place (I'll need to sign a 1 year contract) or we talk and see where things are. If things don't go well, my name is on the lease so I'm entitled to move back to the old apartment and ask her to move out. BF included.
Hi Formerly,
Sounds like you had a good trip, delay included. The appartment your W is staying in is the one you shared? If so and you are on the lease, you have every right to move back in. You can't force her out, but she will obviously need to make some decissions at that point.
Sounds like you are doing well.
Take care,
-T
yes it is the one we used to share. Im not too sure if i really want to move there but for now im keeping my options open.
Thanks for the reply and suppport, tristan.
How you getting on Formerly?
If you have a whole month to choose about living accomodation don't rush it. I think if I'd had the opportunity I'd have asked my STBXW to move out, but as it was her home prior to our relationship I didn't feel I could do that.
The upside is that I'm living in a much nicer bit of town, in a lovely house with great garden that is much closer to all my friends, and has an amazing set of pubs/restaurants/bars and shops that I never knew existed. So I've come up trumps anyway.
Is there anywhere you'd like to live instead of your current or previously shared neighbourhood?
It's going very good, thanks Lees. Lots of work, sorting out lots of things for myself, etc
Well, same situation here but I don't have any regrets. I moved out because I thought, I was being a gentlemen. Even if she didn't reciprocate. I did what in my heart was right and that's enough for me.
So I moved within the same neighborhood but not close to the old place. I definitely upgraded from where I was. Love my new place even if it's only mine for 1 more month, hehe
I still thinking where I would like to live..
Today, I spotted my W on her way to a nights out with her BF. She didn't see me. This comes as no surprise. Her BF is a party animal and will be trying to distract her by partying, meeting other men and drinking (BF is an alcoholic).
Of course, my W is a big girl and it's up to her if she follows her ways or not. No idea if she is still with OM or not but apparently she's still in party land. Oh, but on a different note, her Facebook activity has significantly decreased from 7 days a week to maybe posting 2 or 3 times. Interesting.
But, the point here is not her, the point is that I didn't break. Of course it felt uncomfortable seeing her all dressed up but I am really proud of myself because a month ago, I probably would have approached her and beg or do something stupid. I didn't. I actually was coming back from having a new haircut, feeling good.
For the first time in 2 months I feel that I have nothing to lose. The past is gone and the future will be good with or without her.
I told her, we'll speak when I'm ready and I think am ready to move on.
My problem with prolonging the No contact for yet another month is that it sends the message that 1. I'm not interested in the marriage anymore, 2. Gives ammunition to her to justify things with the family "He told he'd call and he never did".
Things have been a bit quiet in here so I'll ask again: Do you guys have an opinion on how to proceed?
Thanks.
You're doing great. Unfortunately, the truth is... it took years to break your marriage and can take years to fix it. That is why detaching and moving on is the best thing to do. You will know if and when you BOTH are READY.
Stay strong.
PMA
If you can handle it (which I'm sure you can) call first.
Make an arrangement to meet in a neutral place to meet.
Tell her you're ready to hear her now.
Go and hear her out.
Do not share anything about your decisions... just listen.
When she's done, thank her and leave.
Do not get provoked or try to share your thoughts or feelings.
She may try to blame, accuse and guilt you into making you think this is all your fault. Do not take the bait. When she is done, thank her for her time and leave.
If she asks you what you're thinking... tell her you have some things in mind and will let her know when you're ready.
Additionally, that meeting would be the ideal time to arrange to pick up the remainder of your things at her place. As for moving back in with her... what would the purpose of that be? Other than getting you emotionally riled up and throw you deep back in her crap, I don't see any advantage to it at the moment. I'll leave the "floor" open to other opinions on that one.
I understand your point, PMA. And believe me, I've never ever felt SO strong.
That's not the problem.
The truth is, I'm not willing to stay in limbo for years, it's not fair and it's not healthy. Not for a person who hasn't showed even the smallest sign of interest.
I just want to move on with my life. I'm already doing that in many ways. It's just that something in my heart tells me should hear what she's got to say before I take a definitive decision.
I do love my wife but I have absolutely no feelings for the person who has taken her place.
I just want to move on with my life. I'm already doing that in many ways. It's just that something in my heart tells me should hear what she's got to say before I take a definitive decision.
I do love my wife but I have absolutely no feelings for the person who has taken her place.
That's the old you, the insecure you, seeking approval in this fashion: "I'm thinking of moving on with my life unless you have some interest in me, do you want to let me know if you are still interested in me or should I move on with my life?"
That's what you sounded like, and again that's just my opinion. But seeking approval or looking to gauge her interest to see if anything is left in her to salvage a relationship with is very insecure, weak, wussy like behavior - definitely not something you should do.
Do not contact her.
Thanks for the feedback, Gno. Sounds pretty sensible.
I just don't want to have any regrets in the future (with myself) for not listening when I felt I was ready to do so.
In reference to moving back, I didn't mean to move back with her.
I mean it so she faces the consequences of her actions. My decision to
move out only made sense when she asked for space. It makes not sense
that I'm the one having to find where to live when she's the one who screwed
things up. She and her best friend have been getting it all too easy.
Plus, it's easier for me to move back there and cheaper.
Still, was just a thought. I need to think more about it.
I understand why you say it's insecure, wussy like, etc
I can assure you, I'm not asking for approval to move on with my life.
I'm already doing that. The only thing I haven't done is starting a new
relationship and I won't until I am sure 100%, this is over.
That decision is nothing to do with her, it's to do with me. I don't want to have any regrets with MYSELF. I couldn't care less about what she thinks about me moving on with my life.
I've been questioning myself if I actually want to keep going with all this. What's the point? Meeting her at least will give me an idea.
[quote=FormelyknownasF]
Seeking approval or looking to gauge her interest to see if anything is left in her to salvage a relationship with is very insecure, weak, wussy like behavior - definitely not something you should do.
Do not contact her.
My question here would be, Contact or no contact if there's nothing left
there then, why bother with the rest?
I understand why you say it's insecure, wussy like, etc
I can assure you, I'm not asking for approval to move on with my life.
I'm already doing that. The only thing I haven't done is starting a new
relationship and I won't until I am sure 100%, this is over.
That decision is nothing to do with her, it's to do with me. I don't want to have any regrets with MYSELF. I couldn't care less about what she thinks about me moving on with my life.
I've been questioning myself if I actually want to keep going with all this. What's the point? Meeting her at least will give me an idea.
if you could care less why are you saying your heart feels like you need to ask her?
If you can handle it (which I'm sure you can) call first.
Make an arrangement to meet in a neutral place to meet.
Tell her you're ready to hear her now.
Go and hear her out.
Do not share anything about your decisions... just listen.
When she's done, thank her and leave.
Do not get provoked or try to share your thoughts or feelings.
She may try to blame, accuse and guilt you into making you think this is all your fault. Do not take the bait. When she is done, thank her for her time and leave.
If she asks you what you're thinking... tell her you have some things in mind and will let her know when you're ready.
Puppy
I think you're missing the point with your question:
My question here would be, Contact or no contact if there's nothing left there then, why bother with the rest?
There is GOING to be contact. It is unavoidable. Whether that contact is to take her temperature or to dump her or to decide on the terms of D... It's going to happen, one way or another.
Who initiates and when is the choice you have.
The one who initiates it is going to set the stage and direction of the conversation. When this happens you should be the one who decides the when and where. You can wait for her to initiate contact, which could be anything from today to another six months from now... the way she is behaving right now it looks like the latter - she is having too much fun with her new-found freedom and partying friend. She is too busy to give you a moment's notice. You are at her mercy and whim.
Obviously, there is an advantage to waiting her out due to your immigration and work situation being affected. These are things you will need to decide. Nobody here is going to be able to make those decisions for you.
It's just that something in my heart tells me should hear what she's got to say before I take a definitive decision.
Good point. Except that I didn't say I wanted to ask her anything.
A month ago, just after the exposing, she tried to call me and then sent a txt message asking for a chance for me to hear her out.
Still you make a good point, Robx. I won't rush, I should reflect on your words and be honest with myself to see if I'm indeed asking for validation.
What I'm finding increasingly hard to do is just to turn my back on this and 'hope for the best' even if it takes years. I don't think I can do that. I love her, yes but I love myself even more.
There is an advantage to waiting her out due to your immigration and work situation being affected. These are things you will need to decide. Nobody here is going to be able to make those decisions for you.
I made the decision already that my immigration status won't have to be a part of this. I'll be fine. I'll handle it.
My company supports me and even if they can't do anything I've had so many job offers after this happened like you wouldn't believe. Both here and in two other countries so I don't need her even for that and it makes me feel very good.
My company supports me and even if they can't do anything I've had so many job offers after this happened like you wouldn't believe. Both here and in two other countries so I don't need her even for that and it makes me feel very good.
You bet it does! There is nothing better than a man who has options and is in control of his destiny... and women like it too.
Yes, Gno. And it's not only work. Every aspect of my life is bursting with options. Trips, new friends, new hobbies, other girls finding me attractive, etc
I have every confidence that I will be fine. I don't need her approval, I have my own approval already and that's enough.
Couple of things I might need to know how to deal before hand:
1. She made the request to be heard before she knew the affair was exposed to family and OMW. What if the offer to talk is no longer on the table? i.e. she doesn't answer my calls or msgs
2. What if she wants to take control of the agenda, i.e. talk about divorce, Or says this is the last time we see each other so better say whatever is left to say?
So I just prolong this situation indefinitely? Just be patient, hoping she'll
come to her senses before she finds yet another men. I just keep
smiling and doing my own thing... She'll be ready when she's ready.
Seriously, what's the alternative to that, then?
If you let this go on too long, there will be nothing to talk about. You are already wondering what is left to talk about. Since you are focusing on yourself, do what you think is best for you. If you want to talk to her, then do it. If you don't, don't. You only keep yourself in suspense wondering if she even wants to talk to you anymore.
If you let this go on too long, there will be nothing to talk about. You are already wondering what is left to talk about.
I couldn't have put it better myself.
So I just prolong this situation indefinitely? Just be patient, hoping she'll
come to her senses before she finds yet another men. I just keep
smiling and doing my own thing... She'll be ready when she's ready.
Seriously, what's the alternative to that, then?
you stated the "alternative" not really the "alternative but the directive.
"I just keep smiling and doing my own thing"
c'est la vie
personally, with what you have written about her, if i was living it, i wouldnt contact her until you can look her in the face and say, "We're through" and spin on your heels and walk away. (and get yourself a pair of horsebit loafers) so the last thing she remembers is the jingling sound of being dumped. It will resonate in her mind if she ever comes to her senses.
personally, with what you have written about her, if i was living it, i wouldnt contact her until you can look her in the face and say, "We're through"
I'm in that zone.
Since the beginning, I decided that I'd keep my own family from the details of our separation. You see, I had hopes of reconciliation and I knew they'll never forgive my W for behaving like she has.
All of them were very supportive but my mother was very inquisitive. I asked for trust and respect, she agreed reluctantly.
Today, she called me to ask if my W and I had talk about our problems. I told her things haven't changed and just as I was beginning to change the subject and tell her about my personal development, she suddenly she interrupted me and became furious.
She keep shouting "What did you do to that poor girl?" "Confess! what stupid thing did you do that she doesn't even want to talk?" "Why the secrecy?" , etc
I didn't tell her anything else. Just the same "We're going through a rough patch and have taken time off to think about things". But she kept implying that I had been unfaithful to her. (This is a reflection of my mother's own childhood memories and fears. Her father was a philanderer and abandoned them).
That aside, it got me thinking that most of the people, have treated me as if I was the monster here. My W's sister, her friends, etc and now even my own mother? It made me sad.
The only way I understand this is that, my W has been so nearly perfect most of her life than for them, the obvious guilty person has to be me.
So, let me see if I understand this well, I'm taking the [censored], while my W is out there in party land with everybody thinking "oh, poor her, look what she's been through"?
I don't care for validation from other people. Not even my mother (I already told her I don't want to talk to her as she can't neither respect or trust me) but I just think this is unfair. It's already enough having to deal with it as it is.
Yet another reason to move on.
Life's lessons all seem to pile up to one answer....throw away the people in your past because things have not worked out with them. That may be fine, but history has a way of repeating itself. So after you throw away your wife and your mother, you will form new relationships which you can throw away later, when they go bad.
I'm not throwing away anything, Lotus. At least not yet.
I'm just being honest here. I'm reaching a state where a part
of me questions if there's a point to all this? I've done a massive
amount of work here and there are no signs of progress with her.
I tried to call her this weekend and she didn't even pick up the phone.
or called back
She's determined to act as if I never existed.
All this while the rest of my life is telling me, even if the worst happens
"you'll be fine".
Pls, don't make it sound as if I was the coward here. God knows how
much I've tried. Before and after I knew there was OM.
Yes, it took months/years for my marriage to reach this state. Yes, months
and years are needed to fix this. But if there's no will to take even the smallest step, then, what should I do? Wait until eternity?
I don't want to walk away with unresolved issues. In fact, I think I've
learned A LOT from this situation, I've read a lot and I'm doing therapy.
I can see where my mistakes were and take charge for my responsibility.
I'm getting my lessons learned believe me.
I'm not the one who has turned his back on this because the law of attraction says "focus on what's good and makes you happy". I'm not the one taking ill
advice from an alcoholic best friend. I'm not the one who is in a rush to find
someone else who helps me forget my wife.
I'm the one posting on a forum from a website called "Divorce Busting" while she's out there in Partyland.
Still, I've decided I won't make a final decision yet. "Not just friends" recommends waiting 3 months to decide. I'm into my second month now.
It happens to be the same time when I'm supposed to move from this apartment. Might not just be a coincidence.
Good. i'm glad to hear that.
She keep shouting "What did you do to that poor girl?" "Confess! what stupid thing did you do that she doesn't even want to talk?" "Why the secrecy?" , etc
your mama knows something we dont.
please tell us.
so we can better understand your wife.
Not sure what do you mean.
My mom is reaching that conclusion because she's not buying the "we are going through a rough patch".
In her mind if we are separated, it had to be something much bigger than
just a rough patch. And she's right but I'm not telling her anything about my
W's infidelity.
But the point here - and that's something my therapist helped me clarify - my mother thinks that my marriage's failure is her failure as a mother. Plus, as her father betrayed her own family, it's obvious that her instinct is to see the W as the victim and the husband as the perpetrator (even if he is her own son). The only way she can feel better is by controlling the situation and "fixing it". Without full disclosure, she feels powerless and is pushing hard for me to reveal details.
I won't, I don't need to validate myself with my mom. There's a lesson for her in this too: trust and respect.
Anyway, I don't intend for this to become about me and my mother. Those are issues that have been there for awhile and I'm addressing them in therapy.
Just be absolutely sure, Mr McQueen, I've been entirely honest in this forum. I have no reason to lie to you guys. Ever since I started posting in here I've been using this writing exercise as a catharsis. Some times even revealing more than I needed to. Lying in here, would be lying to no one else but myself.
I agree. Sounds like your mom has her stuff to work on. Don't worry about carrying around anyone else's stuff except for your own.
So far you are doing a great job of being AWARE of that and following up with ACTION.
Great job brotha!!
PMA
Thanks for your kind words, PMA.
I intend for us to meet next saturday so I called my W, 2 days ago. It went straight to voicemail. I didn't leave a message but I was expecting that she would call me back once she saw the missed call. She hasn't.
I wonder if I should try again or it's better to send her a text or email.
And what should I do in case she doesn't reply at all? should I just let it go?
Wait, I still need to get my stuff!
Hows it going Formerly?
I'm glad you're taking time to decide what to do and also pouring out stuff on here. My thoughts mirror yours often.
I would wait for her to respond a couple more days, and then try again. If no response then I would email stating why you wish to meet i.e. getting stuff/closure.
But I am only a rookie and know nowt!
Thanks for your support, L.
It's interesting that you find similarities. The more I read and inform myself about this, the more I see that there are very little "unique" situations. Most of them have the same first and second acts at least.
As for act 3, I wish you the best outcome possible.
F
Still no reply from her. Not sure how should I proceed.
Any ideas? Gno? Puppy? Thx
And no one dared to disturb the sound of silence...
Patience young squire patience.
I would go ahead and either email her or call, and leave a message this time, if she doesn't answer the phone. It is possible that she didn't see that you called, no?
She asked you to hear her out. Offer her that opportunity. If she no longer wants that, you still need to deal with practical issues of your belongings, the apartment, and likely more.
Sorry you had to deal with your mom's stuff in addition to everything. Here you are trying to protect your wife and you get blamed. Ugh. Interesting that after you posted about that conversation, that two people here also jumped to some wrong conclusions about you. Being scapegoated sucks.
Thanks, D.
I'm thinking email or text might be the best option here as there's a way to confirm that she received it and read it.
About being blamed. Yes, it sucks. And it damaged me more than I had initially thought it would. I'm even questioning about calling my W to arrange seeing each other this weekend as I'm not 100% emotionally. That sucks even more.
Hi F, I agree with Dudess.
About being blamed... told you this before and will repeat it: If you live to meet others' expectations you become a slave to their desires. Set yourself free and live your life to your own expectations and if others do not like it... that's their problem.
Thanks, Gno. I hear you, bud.
I think I'm angry right now, trying to find my way back to cool, calm, collected and CONFIDENT before I make contact.
Sent the message with time and place for meeting up on Sunday.
Still no reply.
Still hasn't confirmed to me but she told a friend in common that she's meeting me tomorrow as a gesture of "grace" from her part. (???)
Going into the den tomorrow, fellas. I appreciate your support and prayers.
Only thing I'm now clear is how to respond if she pulls off a "I just wanted to meet so you are clear that it's over. Get your stuff and never talk to me again". Should I just ignore that, keep calm, say thank you for your time and walk away?
Thank you.
I have you in my prayers. If she says its over come get your things. I think it best to say "OK". And then I think you go and get your stuff.
Then go about your business without looking back. It is the honorable and attractive thing to do.
Take care,
-T
What she is going to tell a friend and what she will say to you are two different things. I think it's safe to say that she (in her own strange way) is also hurting.
The chances are good that she is going to come into the meeting with a tough-girl attitude. Think of yourselves as both walking into a spaghetti western gunfight. Both of you are going in armed to the teeth. She is bitter about you having exposed her and discrediting her. You are disgusted with her betrayal. This will be an emotionally charged meeting.
Do your best to keep your cool. You have some things to say, say what you have to say if she doesn't want to talk. Chances are 80% that she is going to tell you something along the lines of, "I was thinking of giving us another chance but what you did sealed your fate and ended us." ... That is standard script. Don't let it get to you.
Read the environment. If she is too hostile then make the meeting about arranging a suitable time to get the rest of your belongings.
Good luck F.
What you say is, "I agree. It is best that we move on."
You're in my thoughts and have my best wishes F.
Got a txt from her saying
"I don't want that opportunity anymore. Thanks."
Confused. Very confused.
It's that way you worded that "request" to hear her out. OK. The question now is:
What does F want?
What do you want to do? (besides pursue her)
I was deleting her emails the other day and the last one I had from her before
this whole hell started. It read:
"I'm missing you so much, this holiday is not the same without you. The food doesn't have any taste, the sun is not warm. I miss you. So glad it's only a few days until you arrive"
So what do I want?
Not sure, G. Some times I think I want to make sense of this. For my own mental health.
It's not that I want to pursue her, I just that I never got to tell her my side of the story and it's also unfair that she never really gets to know what happened.
I know she's hurt and I'm hurt but the truth of what happened needs to be revealed. Even if it is by her reading a book and not through me.
She deserves it.
And even if it ends here. We still have to take care of my stuff, closing bank accounts, etc. How do we go from here?
I'm sorry I screwed this by wording my "request" wrong.
So sorry.
it's also unfair that she never really gets to know what happened.
I know she's hurt and I'm hurt but the truth of what happened needs to be revealed. Even if it is by her reading a book and not through me.
What is it that she doesn't know?
What books like "Not just friends" or "After the affair" tell on how affairs happen and why. How you get all doped, how chemicals mess up with everything, how it's unfair to compare your husband with a lover, etc
I've learned all this. I think it's only fair she knows what really happened to us. Even if we never get back together. Whether she learns from that or not, that's her problem.
I don't know why I think I still owe her that as a human being.
Sorry if I'm not making much sense. I'm just trying to figure out, what's next for me.
Is this it, then?
Formerly,
i'm sorry she is no longer interested in talking to you. That is the danger in the method that you used. Exposure can be a double edged sword; it can wound the one who wields it too. It sounds like you had a nice marriage before all this started. At this point, stick to business. Get your things, close out bank accounts, etc. If you two are ever to reconcile, it will be a lot further down the road, when both of you can forget about the pain you believe the other caused you, and remember the good times.
And, it is time to accept that this method did not work for you. Time to try a different approach, if you are going to try at all. You could try being the same person she knew and loved before all of this happened.
Yep. Might not have worked but it was my choice and I have to accept the consequences. And yes, I would like to try a different approach, although your message doesn't give much hope. Sadly.
And, it is time to accept that this method did not work for you. Time to try a different approach, if you are going to try at all. You could try being the same person she knew and loved before all of this happened.
Its nearly impossible to be the same person you where before, because now you have all the experiences of the past what makes you what you are today.
What books like "Not just friends" or "After the affair" tell on how affairs happen and why. How you get all doped, how chemicals mess up with everything, how it's unfair to compare your husband with a lover, etc
I've learned all this. I think it's only fair she knows what really happened to us.
I doubt she is ready to hear that truth now. Maybe, down the road, she will be. The chances that her affair will end in 'happily ever after' are slim to none.
Right now, at least that information may help you understand what happened. It takes time for our emotions to catch up with what our heads understand though. Also, don't underestimate the effect the cultish type of groups your W is involved in can have on people.
If she was planning to give you some 'grace', (how condescending
), it's probably good she decided against it. Make arrangements for handling the remaining practical details. Be confident and cordial. I'm sure there are lots of women who are glad that FKA is available again.
Sadly, there's a man who's not entirely happy with that
but I will be fine.
You will be Formerly. One thing you can't deny from this site is that it proves that there are plenty of honest, well meaning, dedicated folks who share a belief in marriage and fidelity and working at lifelong commitment. You too are one of them, and there are more out there for you to meet.
A part of me feels it's a failure not having been able to reach out to her. I always trusted her to wake up.
Formerly,
I think your wife is punishing you. Almost all of them do it; some can hold out and do it longer than others. She may or may not still make a move back towards your marriage, but the fact is that you have done the best you could, and everything you have done, you have done to try to save your marriage.
Your wife can't honestly say the same.
You knew going in that the "tough love" approach isn't guaranteed, but it's still the BEST chance people have of trying to save their marriage when there is infidelity involved, in my experience. Your wife may have deeper issues (like Geomom's husband currently) that say that NOTHING would have really worked right now, and that this is her journey.
As men, that's very hard for us to accept, because we are natural "fixers."
I do think there isn't any longer any reason to lie to protect her. Your family should know the truth.
You are in my prayers, buddy.
Puppy
I doubt she is ready to hear that truth now. Maybe, down the road, she will be. The chances that her affair will end in 'happily ever after' are slim to none.
I'm pretty sure the affair is over. At least the original one. Maybe she has another now. Who knows.
My point is, if I send her a book, and doesn't want to read it now. She maybe will down the road. Even if I'm not there and hopefully that'll help her make better decisions in the future. It's one last act of towards the woman that gave me the best days of my life (And the worst).
You are in my prayers, buddy.
Puppy
Thanks, Puppy. I will need those prayers.
Not sure about telling my family, that would definitely will be the last nail in the cuffin. I wish there would be anything else I could do. Even if it just to stay put and give her more time to process her thoughts. But maybe that's just me fooling myself, some day she'll wake up.
Not sure about telling my family, that would definitely will be the last nail in the cuffin. I wish there would be anything else I could do. Even if it just to stay put and give her more time to process her thoughts. But maybe that's just me fooling myself, some day she'll wake up.
Only you will know mate, when it is time to give up. Give her more time if you want/need to do so. It's only really over when you decide it is.
It is very tough to give up all hope isn't it. I too feel like a failure, and soon to be tagged with "divorcee" despite not walking away from the lifelong commitment I made. I think they're all normal feelings for us to have. It's just a shame the WAS don't seem to have the same issues!
You could call the DB coaches on this website. They have gentler ways of dealing with affairs. Their methods take time and may not work at all as she may have truly hardened her feelings towards you. But this did not work, either. At this point, what do you have to lose?
Their methods take time and may not work at all as she may have truly hardened her feelings towards you. But this did not work, either. At this point, what do you have to lose?
Time and sanity. That's what I could lose.
You see, I lost her many times already. When I asked her to work on our marriage and she refused. When she knew I was in the hospital and didn't call. When she asked me for space only to get involved with a married man with children. I lost her when not once, in 2 months, has cared about how I feel.
So the question is, what do I have to win?
Now, that is for you to decide. I agree, you are young, you don't have children together. Why not move on and find someone who shares your values more than your current wife does? But that's not my decision; it is yours.
Yep. The more I think about it, the more that seems to be the case. Still, I made this 3 months deal with myself and won't decide anything final until that time has come.
The one thing that I'm finding incredibly hard to do is walking away in silence. If I leave like this, I'm sending the message that I'm leaving this angry, resentful, bitter, etc. The last thing my W heard from me was when I exposed to her.
I don't think those words should be the last words of my marriage.
I can't live with that.
I'm thinking if a letter would be ok. Not to explain my actions to her but to be honest about how I felt about what she did. And also, to make it 100% clear for her, that I'm moving on with my life. She needs to know I mean business.
She might not listen, she might not even read it (doubt this) but I least I'd feel better about letting all this out of my head. Not in an angry way but in a detached, compassionate tone. Even if she doesn't deserve that at this point.
In the past, I've made the mistake of moving away from things in silence, thinking my silence would speak louder than words. It didn't.
I don't want to move away from this with regrets. And walking away in silence, will definitely make me feel that way.
I believe heartfelt letters are very powerful. There are a few rules of letter writing that help. Talk about yourself, not her. Avoid saying things like "you did....." or "you said...", that comes off as accusatory. Stick to "I felt.....", and "I was....". And it is powerful to talk about your feelings, not what you think. You can say, "I felt angry, or hurt, or any adverb. But don't say, "I felt like you did...." which is not a feeling and is accusatory. Anytime you say "I felt like...." you are really saying "I think....", and thinking and feeling are not the same. When you talk about what you think there is room for argument. When you talk about how you feel, who can argue with that? Your feelings are real and they are yours. Yes, write a letter. She can read it now and perhaps not be moved by it. But if she keeps it, she may read it again a few months from now and be touched. Words have power.
She can read it now and perhaps not be moved by it. But if she keeps it, she may read it again a few months from now and be touched. Words have power.
My wife has kept cards and notes that I have given her over the past few months. She even has one in her purse -- I can see it sticking out of the side pocket.
I wouldn't bother rewarding her with a letter. It could(would) make you look weak and pursuing.
She has done despicable things and is still lying to everyone to make herself look good. So, set your family straight and do not allow her to do any more damage to you.
Separate your stuff and go pitch black.
this is interesting. Just out of curiosity, why a letter would be rewarding her?
Is it letting her now that I still care even if the letter clearly states that i'm moving
on with my life?
I know you have a good point, Kimmie. Gno, thinks the same and it makes sense.
It just hurts so much not being able to tell what you feel. It's like being in jail and not been able to give your side of the story. It's really tough. If I walk away like this, she'll never know how I felt. She may not care to hear, that's her problem. Should that stop me from doing what I feel I need to do to get closure? Is she really going to have the last word on this?
The one thing I'm finding it incredibly hard to do is walking away in silence. If I leave like this, I'm sending the message that I'm leaving this angry, resentful, bitter, etc. The last thing my W heard from me was when I exposed to her.
Maybe that was her perception, or maybe it was just her spin for others. Even if you were angry, resentful and bitter, those feelings would be understandable under the circumstances. What makes you think that she would accurately perceive anything more you might say? And why does it matter?
I don't think those words should be the last words of my marriage. I can't live with that.What were your last words?
I'm thinking if a letter would be ok. Not to explain my actions to her but to be honest about how I felt about what she did. And also, to make it 100% clear for her, that I'm moving on with my life. She needs to know I mean business.Do you really think she doesn't know how you felt? You make clear that you are moving on, with your
actions, not with words.
In the past, I've made the mistake of moving away from things in silence, thinking my silence would speak louder than words. It didn't.Maybe in some situations, the silence leaves confusion. That isn't necessarily the case here though.
I wouldn't bother rewarding her with a letter. It could(would) make you look weak and pursuing.
She has done despicable things and is still lying to everyone to make herself look good. So, set your family straight and do not allow her to do any more damage to you.
this is interesting. Just out of curiosity, why a letter would be rewarding her? Is it letting her now that I still care even if the letter clearly states that i'm moving on with my life?
I don't know that she would find it rewarding, more likely annoying, and definitely kinda pathetic, that you would take the trouble to write after what she has done, when she has not even given you the courtesy of saying "I'm sorry".
It just hurts so much not being able to tell what you feel. It's like being in jail and not been able to give your side of the story. It's really tough. If I walk away like this, she'll never know how I felt. She may not care to hear, that's her problem.I'm pretty sure she doesn't care to hear, so why try to communicate about your feelings with someone who doesn't care to hear it. Consider how you might feel to have a non-response to what you say.
Should that stop me from doing what I feel I need to do to get closure? Is she really going to have the last word on this?Closure isn't an event, it's a process. I rarely involves both parties. You get your closure within your self, over time. I know it hurts, and I am sorry that it hurts and that she has treated you this way.
this is interesting. Just out of curiosity, why a letter would be rewarding her?Is it letting her now that I still care even if the letter clearly states that i'm moving
on with my life?
Because people who are moving on with their life don't write people letters to tell them they're moving on with their life. They just do it. My $.02
touché. canadian kid. touché.
Feeling much better now thanks to all of your kind words.
small update. two things to share.
1
i've been very busy at work on the weekend which has helped a lot. My mother apologised earlier this week for her behavior and I felt like telling them what happened with more detail. still I haven't told them about OM but this is enough for now. They felt relieved and thanked me. They also encouraged me to move on and live a happier life.
2
I've been getting messages from my ex landlord. (she copies me in every msg she sends to my wife so I'm assuming my W hasn't told her I moved out). One was about a window that needed to be replaced. The one I got today says she couldn't arrange for "fixing the lock this weekend. It'll have to be the next one. Weird.
3
What do you think it's the best way to arrange getting the rest of my stuff back? I intend to be strictly business but don't want to sound arrogant or rude. That'll make her think I'm angry, and I'm not. Part of me feels relieved.
Sorry, D. I thought I had replied to your comment but I never actually hit "Send".
First of all thanks for such an extensive reply. Good advice in there.
The msg I sent on the weekend said:
You wanted an opportunity to talk. Sunday 12 PM. X Cafe.
Which I agree with Gno, comes across as arrogant. And it made me feel as if I that screwed up the last chance I had.
Then, I remembered what were the actual last words I said to her:
In person when we said good bye at the airport:
"I'm sorry, princess. I'm sorry that it had to come to this. Pls let me prove to you that I'm still the man you marry. That I can be the man you want in your life. No more promises. Just actions. Let this be the first one. Giving you what you need right now. Space."
And my very last words were on the phone, when exposing:
"You told me you needed a real man. Well, you see, real men don't cheat on their wives and kids. Real, honest men, protect their families. And that's what I am going to do"
and you know what? On second thought, I think I can live with that.
3
What do you think it's the best way to arrange getting the rest of my stuff back? I intend to be strictly business but don't want to sound arrogant or rude. That'll make her think I'm angry, and I'm not. Part of me feels relieved.
In writing, businesslike but yet positive and upbeat, and brief.
You're right -- don't want to come off as arrogant, rude or angry. Want to come off as "I'll be just fine, although this isn't what I would have chosen."
My two cents on the "letter" thing, Formerly: I think it's a good idea, and a great way to express your thoughts and emotions. I just don't think it would be a good idea to send it immediately after she's told you she doesn't want to talk to you, for the reasons stated.
Puppy
Cool, Puppy. Thanks. Will write something and will post it here before sending it, just to make sure.
About the letter. Will take my time to write it and then think if it's worth sending it or not, and when.
Hey F
I'm going to agree with some of the comments about your letter.
Something I did that helped me is writing a letter about what I really wanted to say to my XW. Then I sat on my patio, had a drink and burned it.
Actually what did happen with time is that I waited to get emails from her asking how I was. This took a good year to happen and would happen when I had stayed in NC. She would say how much I seem to be flourishing and how happy I seem. She also mentioned having to pay for her sins and how karma is a bi%@#.
Be careful about this letter. It might seem like pursuing and it make you look weak. Let her intiate the discussion. Trust me, she will think of you.
I would not say your approach is a failure either. I would say you must be patient and back off, and move on. Planting a seed of doubt takes time to grow.
I don't want to move away from this with regrets.
Formerly,
I know this is damned difficult, but you really should have no regrets. I went back just now and read ALL of your old posts, including your original ones, just to make sure I had your sitch correctly in my mind. What I see is a man who was already trying everything (including just about the entire repertoire of the "gentler" approach) when you first came to us, and has subsequently tried most of the "harder" things as well.
Sadly, LBSs and almost LBSs have to realize that we don't control their ultimate decisions.
All we can obviously do is go by what you post to us here, but my reading (and re-reading) of your pretty thorough accounts are of a wife who was already deep into this whole "Law of Attraction" crap by the time you came to us, and who wasn't responding one whit to your patient/understanding/placating approaches.
I really think you've tried just about everything you could, from the whole gamut of techniques.
Puppy
I agree, Puppy. Thanks for taking the time of re-reading all my stitch again.
I did try the gentle approach for more than one month, here are the results:
What I did: I agreed to pay for her staying one more week because she wanted to "cry and be sad" at her moms.
What she did: Spent the week dating the OM.
What I did: Offered to be the one who'd move out so she wouldn't need to look for a place. I bought her groceries. Spend an entire night cleaning the place, washing her clothes, etc so she'd be ready as soon as she landed for her new job. I wrote a letter saying I trusted her.
What did she do: Get on the internet as soon as she arrived to the apartment and look for the other man obsessively. She didn't even thanked me.
What I did: I kept my part of the promise. For 1 month I let her be. No unnecessary contact and no talks about the relationship. I read every book I could put my hands on about WAWs, went to therapy, etc
What she did: Went deeper into the affair by internet and the phone. Made plans for OM visiting her. Followed the ill advice given by her BF and used every sentence Law of Attraction words to justify her actions.
In the end, she was just flipping a coin to make her decision but the coin had the same face in both sides: The affair.
And that's not counting the six months prior to that.
Puppy
My WAW is also into LoA and Reiki. It's amazing how someone so dedicated to positive energy, the possibility of powerful intentions, and the principals of spiritual energy and healing can be so convinvced that healing is impossible and those same "Laws" don't apply to me or our relationship. I guess I am unique in the Universe!
Sounds like narcissism in a religious aspect of celebrating it, most of our WAW's do.
I know you have a good point, Kimmie. Gno, thinks the same and it makes sense.
It just hurts so much not being able to tell what you feel. It's like being in jail and not been able to give your side of the story. It's really tough. If I walk away like this, she'll never know how I felt. She may not care to hear, that's her problem. Should that stop me from doing what I feel I need to do to get closure? Is she really going to have the last word on this?
You sound weak, insecure, ineffectual, wussy like and definitely not the kind of man your wife would want to be with.
Yes you have feelings.
Yes it hurts.
Why do you feel you have the right to share those feelings and your story with your wife if she has told you she doesn't want to be with you?
She may not care to hear, that's her problem.
That's selfish.
So if she doesn't want to care about your feelings anymore and not hear you cry & blab on about them, she has to because you say so?
Really?
Hasn't any of this DB process sunk into you yet?
You heal yourself.
You take care of yourself.
You move on and detach from a WAS that doesn't want to be with you.
If you are still harboring all these hurt feelings inside, you are in no place to contact her by phone, text, email, written word, in person, etc. etc. etc.
You don't have the right to speak with her so that you can get closure, you can get that on your own and you should.
You sound weak, insecure, ineffectual, wussy like and definitely not the kind of man your wife would want to be with.
Again, you're making the mistake of thinking that whatever I ask, say, etc in this board, I'm going ot go and tell to my wife. Wrong. And at this point, who cares if I'm not the kind of man my wife wants to be with?
Why do you feel you have the right to share those feelings and your story with your wife if she has told you she doesn't want to be with you?
Let me see if I understand. I don't have the right to share my feelings but my wife has the right to behave like she has. Let's not disturb her highness. Interesting logic.
I'm selfish for expressing my feelings, and I suppose she's just following her heart, right? More interesting logic.
So if she doesn't want to care about your feelings anymore and not hear you cry & blab on about them, she has to because you say so?
So, if she doesn't want to care about my feelings anymore and not hear me blab me about them, I have to stop because she says so? Besides that, who said anything about crying?
You don't have the right to speak with her so that you can get closure, you can get that on your own and you should.
I have every right. To this day, I am her husband, she made promises she's accountable for. Whether she respects that or not, that's another case.
I respect your opinion and I appreciate your feedback.
I know you're just trying to get your point across here but some times I think you are unnecessarily aggressive.
There's no need for that. It's a process, some of us take longer to get this right, some of you apparently get it right all the time. It's been 6 weeks since I found out about the affair and two months since we're separated. I think I'm doing pretty damn good given the circumstances, to be honest. I'm sorry if you think otherwise.
Again, you're making the mistake of thinking that whatever I ask, say, etc in this board, I'm going ot go and tell to my wife. Wrong. And at this point, who cares if I'm not the kind of man my wife wants to be with?
You're making the mistake that I made that or any assumption in the first place.
I didn't assume anything.
My response was based on your post,
the way you were talking and sounding.
You sound very needy with the way you were talking.
As far as you not caring if you're not the kind of man your wife wants to be with, I think you're fooling yourself, you wouldn't be talking about how you need to express your feelings to your wife, to be heard, to get closure. This is all approval seeking behavior, if you didn't care what your wife thought about you, you wouldn't have a need to express your feelings to her.
...I'm selfish for expressing my feelings, and I suppose she's just following her heart, right? More interesting logic.
You're being selfish if you feel the need to share your feelings with someone who apparently doesn't want to share in that experience with you. Do they have to because you say so? That's controlling and people in general don't like being controlled.
You wrote the following:
She may not care to hear, that's her problem.
Think about how you sound and appear to someone when you talk like that.
It's not attractive.
Just because you are her husband doesn't give you that right, you could ASK HER if she wants to listen but she has the right to refuse you and tell you NO.
Do they have to because you say so? That's controlling and people in general don't like being controlled.
I am not even sure if want to send that letter or not and when. Now, even if I do, no one is forcing her to read it. If she doesn't want to, she won't even open the letter and throw it away. Easy as that. How's that controlling? Controlling would be taking a loudspeaker and giving her no other option than to listen to me.
She may not care to hear, that's her problem.
Think about how you sound and appear to someone when you talk like that. It's not attractive.
[/quote]
I'm done with thinking how I sound and appear to someone else. I won't live to please others.
Be the man you want to be. You will still have some flaws and area's which can be exploited. Even the president does. Don't worry about fitting a mold she's expecting. If she got with you in the first place, you should've been good enough even if you fall short of glory. I don't think a WAS should be rewarded.
Anyway be the man you want to be. I told james217, even in spite of a terrible situation we can make new focus points. Pick some hobbies and skills or classes and excel at them, make them the focus point. Or some self-help books, clubs or classes.
FormelyknownasF,
It would probably be more effective to display these feelings in front of a counselor. Talking about it in an unmanaged environment is most certainly lead to you being shut out.
FormelyknownasF,
It would probably be more effective to display these feelings in front of a counselor. Talking about it in an unmanaged environment is most certainly lead to you being shut out.
Talking in front of the counselor will ensure that she will one way or another have to hear it, because she will have to respond. At a certain point the counselor will be able to sift through BS. You will feel more closure in this manner.
It just hurts so much not being able to tell what you feel. It's like being in jail and not been able to give your side of the story. It's really tough. If I walk away like this, she'll never know how I felt. She may not care to hear, that's her problem. Should that stop me from doing what I feel I need to do to get closure? Is she really going to have the last word on this?
You sound weak, insecure, ineffectual, wussy like and definitely not the kind of man your wife would want to be with.
He doesn’t sound ‘wussy like’ to me. He sounds like a man feeling, and expressing, normal feelings under the circumstances.
Think about how you sound and appear to someone when you talk like that.
It's not attractive.
Speaking of unattractive . . . robx, in your posts here today, you come across as a bully who makes himself feel big by kicking a guy when he’s down for a couple of days. IMO, that makes
you appear weak and insecure. Do
you have the cojones to admit to any vulnerable feelings?
Your stuff about FKA being controlling or selfish . . .
Stay strong buddy dont send it.Listen these people here really know what they are talking about.
If you have to send it send it to your self.
Get it postmarked if you get back with your W give to her on your one year reanavirsery.
Dudess,
there is nothing wrong with sharing your emotions and feelings when you're in a loving, caring, intimate relationship with your significant other. Attempting to do these things with a WAS will only drive them away further.
I definitely have the "cojones" to admit to having vulnerable feelings but I would never communicate these feelings to a WAS who doesn't want anything to do with me. What would that gain when that WAS is effectively communicating that they want nothing to do with you and are actively involved with someone else?
If my direct approach hurt your feelings FKAF, I apologize.
I personally believe that people need a dose of reality in these situations, I'm not going to lie to someone and tell them to do something when I think it's the wrong thing to do.
robx,
What do you do with a WAS who doesn't want anything to do with you? Do you still affair burst? Perhaps they are not seeing correctly due to being in their affair. Hell I don't know.
Thats a real depressing feeling, to know the one you where with wants nothing at all to do with you - and they are consistent in that message.
robx,
What do you do with a WAS who doesn't want anything to do with you? Do you still affair burst? Perhaps they are not seeing correctly due to being in their affair. Hell I don't know.
Thats a real depressing feeling, to know the one you where with wants nothing at all to do with you - and they are consistent in that message.
You accept it and move on with your life.
As much as that sucks to hear this and sucks even more to actually do this, that's what you do. Otherwise you exist in limbo pursuing your WAS for months and/or years.
You can't force someone to love you and be with you.
Let go of the person that doesn't value you or the relationship they have with you and spend some time healing yourself and then move on with your life and live a great life.
I told my WAW 5 months ago that i was still her huband and she said no your not when the leave forsomeone else in their minds
THEY ARE DIVORCED..................
I think thats what gives them no fellings of guilt or remorce.
My humbble opinon TWOLF
Exactly why Adultery should still be considered a crime . . .because it is. Morality is disintegrating rapidly today.
Exactly why Adultery should still be considered a crime . . .because it is. Morality is disintegrating rapidly today.
True - you won't get an argument from me on this, but what's the sentence?
Jail time?
Fines?
And how much?
Can you send someone to jail because they fall out of love with you and and fall in love with someone else?
You didn't hurt my feelings, don't worry. I said your tone was unnecessary because I can see the reality of the situation. My W has made it very clear to me.
You can't force someone to fall back in love with you, I can't argue with that. But, what it's confusing about your "all or nothing" approach, Robx, is that you're still posting in a board about DB. If we should just accept things and move on, why fight for any of our marriages then?
I never intended to control my W, sorry if I came across as I wanted that. I've been always open to accept the fact that she doesn't love me anymore but not when I know there's OM. All I ever wanted to do was to remove the fog and stating the facts so we both could make an informed and honest decision.
I understand now that whatever fog is left, it's inside her head and there's no way I can reach that. No letter, no chat, no email, will reach that.
It's clear to me that one day, maybe in a month, maybe in 5 years, when all the distractions have past and the party is over, there will be no way to hide. She'll wake up alone with her conscience and will finally be honest with herself about what she did.
God bless her. I hope He helps her find the way back to the kind and loving person she used to be. Not for me - I won't be there- but for herself.
It's true. Letting go and moving on is the ONLY way a WAS will ever re-consider their decision. Especially if they have their mind made up.
Remember the story of the castle and the picnic.
Finding a way to be happy a your own and building self respect is the ONLY way they will reconsider.
It's also true that they convince themselves they are "Emotionally Divorced" so they are really not cheating..
Blah Blah. That is why you drop the CONTROL and GUILT and let them hang themselves with all the drop they want.
Stay on the higher paths and drink more Dos Equis my friends ;-)
PMA
One more question. It has to do with her family. Particularly mother and father. It's maybe a cultural thing but when I proposed to her and later married her, I promised both of them I would take care of her.
Was thinking of sending a brief note saying this:
Dear Mother in Law/ Father in law
When your daughter and I married, I promised to her in front of you and God that I'd be with her for the rest of my life. Unfortunately, she made decisions that prevent me from keeping that promise any longer. I can accept that I haven't been the perfect husband but I never disrespected your daughter and my marriage. And this is behavior that I simply cannot tolerate.
I'm sorry that things have to end like this. It was never my decision.
Thank you. for your love and support during all these years.
F
This is my first draft for getting my stuff back.
Hi. I need to collect the rest of my things. I'm planning to do that next saturday AM. It will take less than 15 minutes. Please, let me know if this is ok with you.
We also need to agree on a date and time to close our joint bank account. This is less urgent, but I appreciate if we could find the time to do this within this month.
Thank you.
You can't force someone to fall back in love with you, I can't argue with that. But, what it's confusing about your "all or nothing" approach, Robx, is that you're still posting in a board about DB. If we should just accept things and move on, why fight for any of our marriages then?
It is confusing, no worries, that's very true.
Do you think the WAS will be attracted to someone who wouldn't move on with their life and would just stay and wait till they came back to them? Is that attractive? When you move on with your life, when you show them that you value your life just as much as you valued there life, it shows them you're a strong, confident person - those are attractive traits. When you stop holding on to them and let go and move on with your life and whatever that brings you including possibly dating new people, it shows the WAS that you are no longer a backup plan or option in their eyes, if you stay behind and wait for them to come back to you, they will always know that they can take their time coming back if they even want to come back, you give them the power of choice over your life, again not attractive. When you remove yourself as an option in their life, they don't have that choice anymore, you've taken back control of your life which is attractive because think about the qualities you're displaying with this action: confident, secure, ambitious, taking a leadership role in your life again, etc. You're not the backup plan anymore for them, the WAS is then faced with the reality that you aren't there waiting anymore, you're moving on with your life, and if their new relationship isn't working out and they were considering coming back, this generates fear of loss on their part and makes them reconsider their current actions.
That's DB'ing.
What isn't DB'ing?
Hanging in there,
writing long letters & emails,
text message "terrorism" (where you text them non stop),
begging, pleading, grovelling for love,
giving them books and articles and telling them they should feel different and they should love you,
telling them that they took marriage vows and they have to stick it out even if the marriage is horrible in their point of view,
moving out of the master bedroom,
moving out of the home to "give them space",
being sad and acting depressed,
etc. etc. etc.
None of these things is attractive,
none of these things is going to bring your WAS back home.
Is the method that I'm describing fool proof, NO.
Is it 100% successful, NO.
You show me any divorce busting method that is 100% successful all the time, it doesn't exist.
Some relationships can't be fixed for whatever reason, the other person may be at a point in their life where they really want something new & different regardless of how shortsighted that point of view may be.
But they moved on with their life.
They had an affair and found someone new.
And how did you respond when they did these things?
You started working on yourself to show them that you could change, on top of that maybe you started working out and buying new clothes to make yourself look more attractive physically. You started getting a life to show them that you're an attractive individual with options in your life. You did all these things when they moved on and chose to end the relationship. You did all these things because they moved on. They discovered they had options and when a person has options they become more attractive to other people. When a WAS leaves their marriage and starts dating other people, maybe having an affair with someone new and starts a new relationship all the while knowing that they have you in the background should they decide to ever come back, they know they have options. That makes them attractive to you because you were busting your butt trying to get them back and then trying different techniques to get their attention, etc.
In my opinion, why not try doing some of the same things the WAS does, it certainly works on you and every other LBS on these forums so there seems to be a common effect being displayed here. The person who leaves makes the decision to leave on their own. When you originally started seeing each other and dating, you BOTH chose to do that, you would BOTH choose to go out to restaurants, movies, parks, do activities together, etc. When you considered getting married, you BOTH chose to do this and planned out how it would happen. When a person leaves a marriage to pursue other people, dating, have an affair, etc. THEY are making the CHOICE on their own, they aren't making that choice with you. They are taking all the power in the relationship and choosing to do what they want and the LBS is left behind powerless. How do you change that dynamic? How do you reclaim some of the power in the relationship? How do you make a WAS reconsider their actions?
FKAF, for what it's worth, in my own situation,
things only turned around when I took back control of my life and took back the power in the relationship. I tried everything else. I moved out of the master bedroom and then the home because she asked me to because she wanted "space", I wrote letters, emails, shared my feelings, showed my wife how vulnerable I was, I begged her to go to counseling, I was needy, insecure, wussy like, bought gifts and generally jumped through every f!@#$%* hoop there was to show my wife that I loved her and wanted her back. When the WAS has that much control in a relationship, they will never be attracted to the LBS and they will never be motivated to come back. Marriage vows are just words and when a WAS has that thought process in place and "runs the show", the only thing you can do is to shake up their reality. In the end this is what is working in my situation and I'm the one now that has the hard time wanting her back after this whole process, that's the danger of detachment, I reclaimed my life back, my eyes are open now, and I'm not sure I want someone like that back in my life who would have done all these things to me, my wife now wants me to go to counseling, she wants to move back home, she talks to me everyday: in person, by text, by email, she does favors for me, she is sorry and is starting to show remorse for her actions, she wants me to forget the past and wants us to move on to a "great new" relationship for us and our family, she tells me that "people make mistakes", she tells me that she "held her family and friends in higher priority than her husband and that she knows now that is wrong".
She didn't see any of these issues as problems when she originally dropped the "bomb". She was content to live on planet "fruitopia" while she was in control and living a great life. When I hit rock bottom, reached my personal threshold of tolerance and that switch inside me finally flicked on and said "she's never going to change and she's hurting me and she knows it and still doesn't care, why am I still jumping through all these hoops to get her back?", that's when I moved back home and experienced "batshitcrazy" (and it was an experience), I slept in my bed in the master bedroom and packed all her things and told her that I wanted her to move out, instead of taking the custody scheduled she so generously gave me, I got lawyers involved and got shared joint custody, I became more active in my own life, I made her responsible for her own life (the term around here is "she can wear her big girl panties"), she was basically living an easy life on my dime, what would prompt her to change that if she was allowed to cake eat for as long as she wanted and I was feeding her that cake?
A free ride compliments of me and I realized that and I didn't want that anymore so I decided things would change.
But that's just me, that's where I am right now.
Life is really good and it's good because I know now that I'm responsible for living a great life and for a long time during the unhappy portion of our marriage I was miserable and taken for granted and I never took care of myself.
Now I have options, now I won't settle and my wife knows that. Yes I'm a bit of a hard a$$ as well as being a smart a$$, I'm working towards that middle ground for me. I'm a great dad and I make sure my kids have a great life, they didn't ask for this situation and although a part of me wants to give them their family back I can't just be married for the kids, I got married for me first and I want a great relationship and my wife is in personal counseling right now for herself and she's making real changes in her life and I just want to be sure that before I re-enter married life again if that's what I choose to do, it's for the right reasons and that a relationship will be loving, caring, fun, enjoyable and maintainable because regardless of what anyone says, marriage is hard work and I don't care if that doesn't sexy, that's reality. Married people get lazy with each other and take each other for granted, you have to consciously treat each other better, you have to make time for dating which means getting a sitter for the kids, you have to put excitement in the mix, you have to travel, you have to do things together but also make sure you maintain a personal individual life as well.
How's that for a verbose long winded post ;-)
I hope it helped a little.
One more question. It has to do with her family. Particularly mother and father. It's maybe a cultural thing but when I proposed to her and later married her, I promised both of them I would take care of her.
Was thinking of sending a brief note saying this:
Dear Mother in Law/ Father in law
When your daughter and I married, I promised to her in front of you and God that I'd be with her for the rest of my life. Unfortunately, she made decisions that prevent me from keeping that promise any longer. I can accept that I haven't been the perfect husband but I never disrespected your daughter and my marriage. And this is behavior that I simply cannot tolerate.
I'm sorry that things have to end like this. It was never my decision.
Thank you. for your love and support during all these years.
F
I really like this, Formerly. Classy; definitely falls into the whole "Right Thing to Do" category.
Puppy
This is my first draft for getting my stuff back.
Hi. I need to collect the rest of my things. I'm planning to do that next saturday AM. It will take less than 15 minutes. Please, let me know if this is ok with you.
We also need to agree on a date and time to close our joint bank account. This is less urgent, but I'd like to I appreciate if we could find the time to do this within this month.
Thank you.
Remove the comma after "please." Comes across too supplicating.
Change second paragraph as above.
My two cents.
Puppy
You can't force someone to fall back in love with you, I can't argue with that. But, what it's confusing about your "all or nothing" approach, Robx, is that you're still posting in a board about DB. If we should just accept things and move on, why fight for any of our marriages then?
It is confusing, no worries, that's very true.
Do you think the WAS will be attracted to someone who wouldn't move on with their life and would just stay and wait till they came back to them? Is that attractive? When you move on with your life, when you show them that you value your life just as much as you valued there life, it shows them you're a strong, confident person - those are attractive traits. When you stop holding on to them and let go and move on with your life and whatever that brings you including possibly dating new people, it shows the WAS that you are no longer a backup plan or option in their eyes, if you stay behind and wait for them to come back to you, they will always know that they can take their time coming back if they even want to come back, you give them the power of choice over your life, again not attractive. When you remove yourself as an option in their life, they don't have that choice anymore, you've taken back control of your life which is attractive because think about the qualities you're displaying with this action: confident, secure, ambitious, taking a leadership role in your life again, etc. You're not the backup plan anymore for them, the WAS is then faced with the reality that you aren't there waiting anymore, you're moving on with your life, and if their new relationship isn't working out and they were considering coming back, this generates fear of loss on their part and makes them reconsider their current actions.
That's DB'ing.
What isn't DB'ing?
Hanging in there,
writing long letters & emails,
text message "terrorism" (where you text them non stop),
begging, pleading, grovelling for love,
giving them books and articles and telling them they should feel different and they should love you,
telling them that they took marriage vows and they have to stick it out even if the marriage is horrible in their point of view,
moving out of the master bedroom,
moving out of the home to "give them space",
being sad and acting depressed,
etc. etc. etc.
None of these things is attractive,
none of these things is going to bring your WAS back home.
Is the method that I'm describing fool proof, NO.
Is it 100% successful, NO.
You show me any divorce busting method that is 100% successful all the time, it doesn't exist.
Some relationships can't be fixed for whatever reason, the other person may be at a point in their life where they really want something new & different regardless of how shortsighted that point of view may be.
But they moved on with their life.
They had an affair and found someone new.
And how did you respond when they did these things?
You started working on yourself to show them that you could change, on top of that maybe you started working out and buying new clothes to make yourself look more attractive physically. You started getting a life to show them that you're an attractive individual with options in your life. You did all these things when they moved on and chose to end the relationship. You did all these things because they moved on. They discovered they had options and when a person has options they become more attractive to other people. When a WAS leaves their marriage and starts dating other people, maybe having an affair with someone new and starts a new relationship all the while knowing that they have you in the background should they decide to ever come back, they know they have options. That makes them attractive to you because you were busting your butt trying to get them back and then trying different techniques to get their attention, etc.
In my opinion, why not try doing some of the same things the WAS does, it certainly works on you and every other LBS on these forums so there seems to be a common effect being displayed here. The person who leaves makes the decision to leave on their own. When you originally started seeing each other and dating, you BOTH chose to do that, you would BOTH choose to go out to restaurants, movies, parks, do activities together, etc. When you considered getting married, you BOTH chose to do this and planned out how it would happen. When a person leaves a marriage to pursue other people, dating, have an affair, etc. THEY are making the CHOICE on their own, they aren't making that choice with you. They are taking all the power in the relationship and choosing to do what they want and the LBS is left behind powerless. How do you change that dynamic? How do you reclaim some of the power in the relationship? How do you make a WAS reconsider their actions?
FKAF, for what it's worth, in my own situation,
things only turned around when I took back control of my life and took back the power in the relationship. I tried everything else. I moved out of the master bedroom and then the home because she asked me to because she wanted "space", I wrote letters, emails, shared my feelings, showed my wife how vulnerable I was, I begged her to go to counseling, I was needy, insecure, wussy like, bought gifts and generally jumped through every f!@#$%* hoop there was to show my wife that I loved her and wanted her back. When the WAS has that much control in a relationship, they will never be attracted to the LBS and they will never be motivated to come back. Marriage vows are just words and when a WAS has that thought process in place and "runs the show", the only thing you can do is to shake up their reality. In the end this is what is working in my situation and I'm the one now that has the hard time wanting her back after this whole process, that's the danger of detachment, I reclaimed my life back, my eyes are open now, and I'm not sure I want someone like that back in my life who would have done all these things to me, my wife now wants me to go to counseling, she wants to move back home, she talks to me everyday: in person, by text, by email, she does favors for me, she is sorry and is starting to show remorse for her actions, she wants me to forget the past and wants us to move on to a "great new" relationship for us and our family, she tells me that "people make mistakes", she tells me that she "held her family and friends in higher priority than her husband and that she knows now that is wrong".
She didn't see any of these issues as problems when she originally dropped the "bomb". She was content to live on planet "fruitopia" while she was in control and living a great life. When I hit rock bottom, reached my personal threshold of tolerance and that switch inside me finally flicked on and said "she's never going to change and she's hurting me and she knows it and still doesn't care, why am I still jumping through all these hoops to get her back?", that's when I moved back home and experienced "batshitcrazy" (and it was an experience), I slept in my bed in the master bedroom and packed all her things and told her that I wanted her to move out, instead of taking the custody scheduled she so generously gave me, I got lawyers involved and got shared joint custody, I became more active in my own life, I made her responsible for her own life (the term around here is "she can wear her big girl panties"), she was basically living an easy life on my dime, what would prompt her to change that if she was allowed to cake eat for as long as she wanted and I was feeding her that cake?
A free ride compliments of me and I realized that and I didn't want that anymore so I decided things would change.
But that's just me, that's where I am right now.
Life is really good and it's good because I know now that I'm responsible for living a great life and for a long time during the unhappy portion of our marriage I was miserable and taken for granted and I never took care of myself.
Now I have options, now I won't settle and my wife knows that. Yes I'm a bit of a hard a$$ as well as being a smart a$$, I'm working towards that middle ground for me. I'm a great dad and I make sure my kids have a great life, they didn't ask for this situation and although a part of me wants to give them their family back I can't just be married for the kids, I got married for me first and I want a great relationship and my wife is in personal counseling right now for herself and she's making real changes in her life and I just want to be sure that before I re-enter married life again if that's what I choose to do, it's for the right reasons and that a relationship will be loving, caring, fun, enjoyable and maintainable because regardless of what anyone says, marriage is hard work and I don't care if that doesn't sexy, that's reality. Married people get lazy with each other and take each other for granted, you have to consciously treat each other better, you have to make time for dating which means getting a sitter for the kids, you have to put excitement in the mix, you have to travel, you have to do things together but also make sure you maintain a personal individual life as well.
How's that for a verbose long winded post ;-)
I hope it helped a little.
That's one for the archives, Rob. Bravo!!!
Puppy
I agree, Puppy. And thank you Rob, this is very inspiring to read.
I know where you're coming from and believe me, it has never been my
intention not to move on with my life. I am. Honest to God I am. I just
needed to be sure.
One difference is that, most of you all have had your WAS home and have seen their reactions, coldness, etc consistently for days. I haven't seen her in months. When she asked me for a chance to be head, I said I wasn't ready.
So I didn't know if she was scared, ashamed, angry, etc.
Now I now where her mind is. Fruitopia
You can't force someone to fall back in love with you, I can't argue with that. But, what it's confusing about your "all or nothing" approach, Robx, is that you're still posting in a board about DB. If we should just accept things and move on, why fight for any of our marriages then?
It is confusing, no worries, that's very true.
Do you think the WAS will be attracted to someone who wouldn't move on with their life and would just stay and wait till they came back to them? Is that attractive? When you move on with your life, when you show them that you value your life just as much as you valued there life, it shows them you're a strong, confident person - those are attractive traits. When you stop holding on to them and let go and move on with your life and whatever that brings you including possibly dating new people, it shows the WAS that you are no longer a backup plan or option in their eyes, if you stay behind and wait for them to come back to you, they will always know that they can take their time coming back if they even want to come back, you give them the power of choice over your life, again not attractive. When you remove yourself as an option in their life, they don't have that choice anymore, you've taken back control of your life which is attractive because think about the qualities you're displaying with this action: confident, secure, ambitious, taking a leadership role in your life again, etc. You're not the backup plan anymore for them, the WAS is then faced with the reality that you aren't there waiting anymore, you're moving on with your life, and if their new relationship isn't working out and they were considering coming back, this generates fear of loss on their part and makes them reconsider their current actions.
That's DB'ing.
What isn't DB'ing?
Hanging in there,
writing long letters & emails,
text message "terrorism" (where you text them non stop),
begging, pleading, grovelling for love,
giving them books and articles and telling them they should feel different and they should love you,
telling them that they took marriage vows and they have to stick it out even if the marriage is horrible in their point of view,
moving out of the master bedroom,
moving out of the home to "give them space",
being sad and acting depressed,
etc. etc. etc.
None of these things is attractive,
none of these things is going to bring your WAS back home.
Is the method that I'm describing fool proof, NO.
Is it 100% successful, NO.
You show me any divorce busting method that is 100% successful all the time, it doesn't exist.
Some relationships can't be fixed for whatever reason, the other person may be at a point in their life where they really want something new & different regardless of how shortsighted that point of view may be.
But they moved on with their life.
They had an affair and found someone new.
And how did you respond when they did these things?
You started working on yourself to show them that you could change, on top of that maybe you started working out and buying new clothes to make yourself look more attractive physically. You started getting a life to show them that you're an attractive individual with options in your life. You did all these things when they moved on and chose to end the relationship. You did all these things because they moved on. They discovered they had options and when a person has options they become more attractive to other people. When a WAS leaves their marriage and starts dating other people, maybe having an affair with someone new and starts a new relationship all the while knowing that they have you in the background should they decide to ever come back, they know they have options. That makes them attractive to you because you were busting your butt trying to get them back and then trying different techniques to get their attention, etc.
In my opinion, why not try doing some of the same things the WAS does, it certainly works on you and every other LBS on these forums so there seems to be a common effect being displayed here. The person who leaves makes the decision to leave on their own. When you originally started seeing each other and dating, you BOTH chose to do that, you would BOTH choose to go out to restaurants, movies, parks, do activities together, etc. When you considered getting married, you BOTH chose to do this and planned out how it would happen. When a person leaves a marriage to pursue other people, dating, have an affair, etc. THEY are making the CHOICE on their own, they aren't making that choice with you. They are taking all the power in the relationship and choosing to do what they want and the LBS is left behind powerless. How do you change that dynamic? How do you reclaim some of the power in the relationship? How do you make a WAS reconsider their actions?
FKAF, for what it's worth, in my own situation,
things only turned around when I took back control of my life and took back the power in the relationship. I tried everything else. I moved out of the master bedroom and then the home because she asked me to because she wanted "space", I wrote letters, emails, shared my feelings, showed my wife how vulnerable I was, I begged her to go to counseling, I was needy, insecure, wussy like, bought gifts and generally jumped through every f!@#$%* hoop there was to show my wife that I loved her and wanted her back. When the WAS has that much control in a relationship, they will never be attracted to the LBS and they will never be motivated to come back. Marriage vows are just words and when a WAS has that thought process in place and "runs the show", the only thing you can do is to shake up their reality. In the end this is what is working in my situation and I'm the one now that has the hard time wanting her back after this whole process, that's the danger of detachment, I reclaimed my life back, my eyes are open now, and I'm not sure I want someone like that back in my life who would have done all these things to me, my wife now wants me to go to counseling, she wants to move back home, she talks to me everyday: in person, by text, by email, she does favors for me, she is sorry and is starting to show remorse for her actions, she wants me to forget the past and wants us to move on to a "great new" relationship for us and our family, she tells me that "people make mistakes", she tells me that she "held her family and friends in higher priority than her husband and that she knows now that is wrong".
She didn't see any of these issues as problems when she originally dropped the "bomb". She was content to live on planet "fruitopia" while she was in control and living a great life. When I hit rock bottom, reached my personal threshold of tolerance and that switch inside me finally flicked on and said "she's never going to change and she's hurting me and she knows it and still doesn't care, why am I still jumping through all these hoops to get her back?", that's when I moved back home and experienced "batshitcrazy" (and it was an experience), I slept in my bed in the master bedroom and packed all her things and told her that I wanted her to move out, instead of taking the custody scheduled she so generously gave me, I got lawyers involved and got shared joint custody, I became more active in my own life, I made her responsible for her own life (the term around here is "she can wear her big girl panties"), she was basically living an easy life on my dime, what would prompt her to change that if she was allowed to cake eat for as long as she wanted and I was feeding her that cake?
A free ride compliments of me and I realized that and I didn't want that anymore so I decided things would change.
But that's just me, that's where I am right now.
Life is really good and it's good because I know now that I'm responsible for living a great life and for a long time during the unhappy portion of our marriage I was miserable and taken for granted and I never took care of myself.
Now I have options, now I won't settle and my wife knows that. Yes I'm a bit of a hard a$$ as well as being a smart a$$, I'm working towards that middle ground for me. I'm a great dad and I make sure my kids have a great life, they didn't ask for this situation and although a part of me wants to give them their family back I can't just be married for the kids, I got married for me first and I want a great relationship and my wife is in personal counseling right now for herself and she's making real changes in her life and I just want to be sure that before I re-enter married life again if that's what I choose to do, it's for the right reasons and that a relationship will be loving, caring, fun, enjoyable and maintainable because regardless of what anyone says, marriage is hard work and I don't care if that doesn't sexy, that's reality. Married people get lazy with each other and take each other for granted, you have to consciously treat each other better, you have to make time for dating which means getting a sitter for the kids, you have to put excitement in the mix, you have to travel, you have to do things together but also make sure you maintain a personal individual life as well.
How's that for a verbose long winded post ;-)
I hope it helped a little.
That's one for the archives, Rob. Bravo!!!
Puppy
Don't whistle too loud, apparently I'm an "a$$hole" ;-)
LOL!
You can't force someone to fall back in love with you, I can't argue with that. But, what it's confusing about your "all or nothing" approach, Robx, is that you're still posting in a board about DB. If we should just accept things and move on, why fight for any of our marriages then?
It is confusing, no worries, that's very true.
Do you think the WAS will be attracted to someone who wouldn't move on with their life and would just stay and wait till they came back to them? Is that attractive? When you move on with your life, when you show them that you value your life just as much as you valued there life, it shows them you're a strong, confident person - those are attractive traits. When you stop holding on to them and let go and move on with your life and whatever that brings you including possibly dating new people, it shows the WAS that you are no longer a backup plan or option in their eyes, if you stay behind and wait for them to come back to you, they will always know that they can take their time coming back if they even want to come back, you give them the power of choice over your life, again not attractive. When you remove yourself as an option in their life, they don't have that choice anymore, you've taken back control of your life which is attractive because think about the qualities you're displaying with this action: confident, secure, ambitious, taking a leadership role in your life again, etc. You're not the backup plan anymore for them, the WAS is then faced with the reality that you aren't there waiting anymore, you're moving on with your life, and if their new relationship isn't working out and they were considering coming back, this generates fear of loss on their part and makes them reconsider their current actions.
That's DB'ing.
What isn't DB'ing?
Hanging in there,
writing long letters & emails,
text message "terrorism" (where you text them non stop),
begging, pleading, grovelling for love,
giving them books and articles and telling them they should feel different and they should love you,
telling them that they took marriage vows and they have to stick it out even if the marriage is horrible in their point of view,
moving out of the master bedroom,
moving out of the home to "give them space",
being sad and acting depressed,
etc. etc. etc.
None of these things is attractive,
none of these things is going to bring your WAS back home.
Is the method that I'm describing fool proof, NO.
Is it 100% successful, NO.
You show me any divorce busting method that is 100% successful all the time, it doesn't exist.
Some relationships can't be fixed for whatever reason, the other person may be at a point in their life where they really want something new & different regardless of how shortsighted that point of view may be.
But they moved on with their life.
They had an affair and found someone new.
And how did you respond when they did these things?
You started working on yourself to show them that you could change, on top of that maybe you started working out and buying new clothes to make yourself look more attractive physically. You started getting a life to show them that you're an attractive individual with options in your life. You did all these things when they moved on and chose to end the relationship. You did all these things because they moved on. They discovered they had options and when a person has options they become more attractive to other people. When a WAS leaves their marriage and starts dating other people, maybe having an affair with someone new and starts a new relationship all the while knowing that they have you in the background should they decide to ever come back, they know they have options. That makes them attractive to you because you were busting your butt trying to get them back and then trying different techniques to get their attention, etc.
In my opinion, why not try doing some of the same things the WAS does, it certainly works on you and every other LBS on these forums so there seems to be a common effect being displayed here. The person who leaves makes the decision to leave on their own. When you originally started seeing each other and dating, you BOTH chose to do that, you would BOTH choose to go out to restaurants, movies, parks, do activities together, etc. When you considered getting married, you BOTH chose to do this and planned out how it would happen. When a person leaves a marriage to pursue other people, dating, have an affair, etc. THEY are making the CHOICE on their own, they aren't making that choice with you. They are taking all the power in the relationship and choosing to do what they want and the LBS is left behind powerless. How do you change that dynamic? How do you reclaim some of the power in the relationship? How do you make a WAS reconsider their actions?
FKAF, for what it's worth, in my own situation,
things only turned around when I took back control of my life and took back the power in the relationship. I tried everything else. I moved out of the master bedroom and then the home because she asked me to because she wanted "space", I wrote letters, emails, shared my feelings, showed my wife how vulnerable I was, I begged her to go to counseling, I was needy, insecure, wussy like, bought gifts and generally jumped through every f!@#$%* hoop there was to show my wife that I loved her and wanted her back. When the WAS has that much control in a relationship, they will never be attracted to the LBS and they will never be motivated to come back. Marriage vows are just words and when a WAS has that thought process in place and "runs the show", the only thing you can do is to shake up their reality. In the end this is what is working in my situation and I'm the one now that has the hard time wanting her back after this whole process, that's the danger of detachment, I reclaimed my life back, my eyes are open now, and I'm not sure I want someone like that back in my life who would have done all these things to me, my wife now wants me to go to counseling, she wants to move back home, she talks to me everyday: in person, by text, by email, she does favors for me, she is sorry and is starting to show remorse for her actions, she wants me to forget the past and wants us to move on to a "great new" relationship for us and our family, she tells me that "people make mistakes", she tells me that she "held her family and friends in higher priority than her husband and that she knows now that is wrong".
She didn't see any of these issues as problems when she originally dropped the "bomb". She was content to live on planet "fruitopia" while she was in control and living a great life. When I hit rock bottom, reached my personal threshold of tolerance and that switch inside me finally flicked on and said "she's never going to change and she's hurting me and she knows it and still doesn't care, why am I still jumping through all these hoops to get her back?", that's when I moved back home and experienced "batshitcrazy" (and it was an experience), I slept in my bed in the master bedroom and packed all her things and told her that I wanted her to move out, instead of taking the custody scheduled she so generously gave me, I got lawyers involved and got shared joint custody, I became more active in my own life, I made her responsible for her own life (the term around here is "she can wear her big girl panties"), she was basically living an easy life on my dime, what would prompt her to change that if she was allowed to cake eat for as long as she wanted and I was feeding her that cake?
A free ride compliments of me and I realized that and I didn't want that anymore so I decided things would change.
But that's just me, that's where I am right now.
Life is really good and it's good because I know now that I'm responsible for living a great life and for a long time during the unhappy portion of our marriage I was miserable and taken for granted and I never took care of myself.
Now I have options, now I won't settle and my wife knows that. Yes I'm a bit of a hard a$$ as well as being a smart a$$, I'm working towards that middle ground for me. I'm a great dad and I make sure my kids have a great life, they didn't ask for this situation and although a part of me wants to give them their family back I can't just be married for the kids, I got married for me first and I want a great relationship and my wife is in personal counseling right now for herself and she's making real changes in her life and I just want to be sure that before I re-enter married life again if that's what I choose to do, it's for the right reasons and that a relationship will be loving, caring, fun, enjoyable and maintainable because regardless of what anyone says, marriage is hard work and I don't care if that doesn't sexy, that's reality. Married people get lazy with each other and take each other for granted, you have to consciously treat each other better, you have to make time for dating which means getting a sitter for the kids, you have to put excitement in the mix, you have to travel, you have to do things together but also make sure you maintain a personal individual life as well.
How's that for a verbose long winded post ;-)
I hope it helped a little.
That's one for the archives, Rob. Bravo!!!
Puppy
Don't whistle too loud, apparently I'm an "a$$hole" ;-)
LOL!
And when Rob whistles.
You're not an a-hole. It was just very hard to understand the point you were trying to make, the way you were making it. This makes it so much easier.
Again, thank you for sharing your experience.
F.
I agree, Puppy. And thank you Rob, this is very inspiring to read.
I know where you're coming from and believe me, it has never been my
intention not to move on with my life. I am. Honest to God I am. I just
needed to be sure.
One difference is that, most of you all have had your WAS home and have seen their reactions, coldness, etc consistently for days. I haven't seen her in months. When she asked me for a chance to be head, I said I wasn't ready.
So I didn't know if she was scared, ashamed, angry, etc.
Now I now where her mind is. Fruitopia
Yup!
The specific flavor of fruitopia is up to her but that's where she lives right now. Fruitopia aka fantasyland aka the "fog" aka the magical land where even the air doesn't move it's so perfect.
I hope now you understand the "DB'ing" that I went through to get to where I am right now. I can't say your path will be the same, all I can offer is what happened in my own situation and what turned it around for me.
Yes it's hard,
probably the hardest thing you've ever gone through, I'm not naive to what's going on, I'm not insensitive to your situation, I spent a long time living in limbo and for the first several months I wish I had gotten a kick in the a$$ much earlier to save me alot of wasted time and that's what I was doing with you, I'm not here to hurt anyone intentionally and I'd rather stop posting on your specific thread if it's just causing you pain to hear me be so blunt with you, you're going through enough as it is, I'm not ignorant of that.
And when Rob whistles.
LOL!
robx..
When your W is at home with you, how would u suggest we act around them?
I know in my sitch I walk around with a chip on my shoulders.. I am trying not too, but its been tough..
Don't whistle too loud, apparently I'm an "a$$hole" ;-)
LOL!
Actually, it was a "jerk," wasn't it???
No, wait . . . that was Bond.
Puppy
I spent a long time living in limbo and for the first several months I wish I had gotten a kick in the a$$ much earlier to save me alot of wasted time and that's what I was doing with you, I'm not here to hurt anyone intentionally and I'd rather stop posting on your specific thread if it's just causing you pain to hear me be so blunt with you, you're going through enough as it is, I'm not ignorant of that.
No need for stop posting. I'm a big boy, I can take tough comments.
I was only saying they were unnecessarily aggressive because you were preaching to the converted: I AM MOVING ON. Sorry if mentioning the letter sent the wrong message.
I know it's hard for you to notice since you can only read what I post here. You can't see me going to the gym, making new friends, making jokes, LAUGHING AGAIN! So, I can assure you: I am moving on. There's hardly no pain. I feel numb when I think of her. Compassion is the only thing I feel. I'm at peace. I'm in the best place I've been since this whole thing started.
robx..
When your W is at home with you, how would u suggest we act around them?
I know in my sitch I walk around with a chip on my shoulders.. I am trying not too, but its been tough..
For the most part, I honestly do my own thing.
I don't ignore her, I'm not a prick.
I don't treat her like the queen of england,
if she stays over for supper with me and the kids,
she's expected to help out with preparing supper and the cleanup involved afterwards, I don't need her to do everything by herself, I'm there in the kitchen taking care of business at the same time, but it's not like she's some guest that I only see twice a year and I do appreciate the help and I let her know and thank her afterwards, that's just the right thing to do, and something you would do with anyone else so why not her as well. That's one thing I noticed that we never did before, we never said "thank you", we never let the other person know we appreciated the assistance but if some stranger or another friend had helped, you would have been polite and thanked them. It should be that way between spouses as well, you should always be appreciative of help that is given to you and don't take it for granted that it will always be there because it won't always be there. When she calls and "visits" in the evening and stops at the coffee shop and brings over my favorite coffee and maybe a snack to go with it, I always say thank you and I make sure to repay the favor because it's the right thing to do. If your friend at work brought you a coffee when they picked one up for themselves, you would say thank you and you would return the favor eventually - if you were a prick and told them to piss off and never said thank you when they did these things and never showed any appreciation, your friend would get tired of you real quick. It's the same thing with your spouse. That's one thing during this entire process that I enjoyed learning the most, appreciating what you have: clothes on your back, money in your pocket, healthy beautiful children, a warm bed, a roof over your head, hot water in the shower, milk in the fridge, a car to drive, a job and a paycheque, friends, family, GOD. There are so many people in this world less fortunate than you so appreciate what you have and don't focus so much on what you don't have, it's easier said than done and it's just a habit you have to cultivate in your life so that it becomes part of your routine.
We still live under the same roof so it makes it tougher.
At least to me its tougher.
Thanks for those thoughts.. Makes sense.
robx..
When your W is at home with you, how would u suggest we act around them?
I know in my sitch I walk around with a chip on my shoulders.. I am trying not too, but its been tough..
For the most part, I honestly do my own thing.
I don't ignore her, I'm not a prick.
I don't treat her like the queen of england,
if she stays over for supper with me and the kids,
she's expected to help out with preparing supper and the cleanup involved afterwards, I don't need her to do everything by herself, I'm there in the kitchen taking care of business at the same time, but it's not like she's some guest that I only see twice a year and I do appreciate the help and I let her know and thank her afterwards, that's just the right thing to do, and something you would do with anyone else so why not her as well. That's one thing I noticed that we never did before, we never said "thank you", we never let the other person know we appreciated the assistance but if some stranger or another friend had helped, you would have been polite and thanked them. It should be that way between spouses as well, you should always be appreciative of help that is given to you and don't take it for granted that it will always be there because it won't always be there. When she calls and "visits" in the evening and stops at the coffee shop and brings over my favorite coffee and maybe a snack to go with it, I always say thank you and I make sure to repay the favor because it's the right thing to do. If your friend at work brought you a coffee when they picked one up for themselves, you would say thank you and you would return the favor eventually - if you were a prick and told them to piss off and never said thank you when they did these things and never showed any appreciation, your friend would get tired of you real quick. It's the same thing with your spouse. That's one thing during this entire process that I enjoyed learning the most, appreciating what you have: clothes on your back, money in your pocket, healthy beautiful children, a warm bed, a roof over your head, hot water in the shower, milk in the fridge, a car to drive, a job and a paycheque, friends, family, GOD. There are so many people in this world less fortunate than you so appreciate what you have and don't focus so much on what you don't have, it's easier said than done and it's just a habit you have to cultivate in your life so that it becomes part of your routine.
Rob, if you keep this up, I'm going to run flush outta whistles.
Beautifully stated.Puppy
We still live under the same roof so it makes it tougher.
At least to me its tougher.
Thanks for those thoughts.. Makes sense.
what's your plan so far Cesco,
how's limbo treating you?
I already know the answer but I want to hear it from you.
actually bro you set the standards,
I'm just doing my best to stay at that level ;-)
actually bro you set the standards,
I'm just doing my best to stay at that level ;-)
I think the student has surpassed the teacher, frankly.
Can you send someone to jail because they fall out of love with you and and fall in love with someone else?
Yes, if they do it before a divorce is finalized. One just doesn't "fall in love" with someone else by accident. Many, many other 'little rules and trusts' have to be broken along the way before one could reach the point of "falling in love" with someone else while still married to another person. As far as I'm concerned, I'd have no problem with sending someone to jail for a year, depending on the circumstance. Not sure why I'm even answering you question Robx, I suppose for others who might have the same question.
Robx , you hit the nail on the head. While I am not there, I am certainly on my way there. The most important thing I got out your post is that LBS must take control over their life and become more accepting and loving of themselves.
Albeit, I am personally having a spiritual warfare at the same time. I have tried for 30 days of showing love, now it's time to reclaim what I allowed to be taken. Still being respectful but using the gifts that I have to rise above.
Can you send someone to jail because they fall out of love with you and and fall in love with someone else?
Many, many other 'little rules and trusts' have to be broken along the way before one could reach the point of "falling in love" with someone else while still married to another person. As far as I'm concerned, I'd have no problem with sending someone to jail for a year, depending on the circumstance. Not sure why I'm even answering you question Robx, I suppose for others who might have the same question.
WOW, so you're saying that you consciously decide who you fall in love with? Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly (if that's the case, what a surprise?)
I put you in a room with 10 women, I pick which one you get to fall in love with and you just fall in love like that?
No.
Attraction between 2 people is an emotional response based on so many different things - it's not a choice. You don't get to choose who you are attracted to and fall in love with (at least I never have in my own experiences), you just fall in love with someone and it happens.
Like it or not, it is possible for people to fall out of love with their spouses and significant others, these forums are filled with people where this has happened and it's possible for them to fall in love with other people.
Affairs suck, adultery sucks and it does seem sometimes that loyalty, commitment, fidelity are all foreign concepts.
What's next if we throw people in jail for falling out of love with their spouses? If you take your spouse for granted, don't give them all the attention, love, and security that they want that you go to jail as well?
If that's the case we're all going to jail then.
Robx,
I have to say that at first, I found you a little blunt, but my experience lines up pretty well with what you say. It really takes most people quite some time to get to where you are about things.
I'll agree with not necessarily chosing to fall in love with someone, but staying in love is a choice.
I beleive that many of the WAS's choices are meant to protect their egos from guilt and facing the truth about how they are conducting themselves. They have a very hard time looking in the mirror. No one wants to see themselves as an adulterer, liar, thief....this is where fruitopia comes in. They can act like a narcissist and suffer no consequences. By pursuing and accomidating, the LBS is enabling and reinforcing WAS behavior.
The best thing you can do is let go and move on. There's no place in 'fruitopia' for FormelyknownasF. Ugh, and why would you want to live with the abuse anyway?
respect
WOW, so you're saying that you consciously decide who you fall in love with? Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly
Dang . . . are you that dense? Tip: No, you aren't understanding me correctly. What I said, and after rereading my post it's pretty clear, that I meant that folks don't just "accidentally" fall in love with someone else while they're married to another. It only happens when they have "Let" it happen. But dang . . .I already said that, didn't I?
As a married man, I don't "tempt fate" by flirting with other women. I don't take them as my confidantes, I don't do "innocent lunches" and other stuff that can lead to trouble, and again, anyone with half a brain knows what I meant. But hey, you'd rather antagonize. No problem. Yer a cat toy, Rob.
No problem. Yer a cat toy, Rob.
is that with or without catnip?
Bummedout, I bow to your superior intellect & logic,
maybe we can let Formerly have his thread back now.
meow ;-)
I put you in a room with 10 women,
SPEED DATING!
- and he was calling me an a$$hole,
in my example I put him in a room with 10 women,
those are decent odds,
he should be thankful! ;-)
quote=robx]I put you in a room with 10 women, [/quote]
What's the address?
Rob's a cat toy. LOL.
Verbal jousting gets outrageous.
YOU. YOU. YOU. Montel Wannabe.
hahahahahahahha
Thought you were gonna surrender the thread Rob? Keep in mind you are the one who hijacked it to take a rather banal shot at me in the first place . . .and definitely without catnip.
P.S. Some of you kiss this morons butt too much. Have at it though.
Random Thoughts on Last Resort Technique ...
.
Ok, It's confirmed. Going there to collect my things on Saturday. It feels liberating but I know I need to be prepared for whatever she's got there waiting for me. i.e. shouting, having OM there with her, remarks of the BF or even complete indifference (which at this point I'd appreciate) , etc
I'm thinking it's best to send the note to her parents AFTER I move my stuff out.
About the joint account she said she'll let me know later.
Relief.
Oh, BTW forgot to ask about stuff like letters, photos, albums, etc should I leave those to her? It's not that I will be needing them, really.
Oh, BTW forgot to ask about stuff like letters, photos, albums, etc should I leave those to her? It's not that I will be needing them, really.
if you really want them,
take them,
if you don't want them, leave them behind,
don't be afraid to ask for them if you want them.
Ok, It's confirmed. Going there to collect my things on Saturday. It feels liberating but I know I need to be prepared for whatever she's got there waiting for me. i.e. shouting, having OM there with her, remarks of the BF or even complete indifference (which at this point I'd appreciate) , etc
I'm thinking it's best to send the note to her parents AFTER I move my stuff out.
About the joint account she said she'll let me know later.
Relief.
You know if you clear out all of the funds in the joint bank account, you can usually close it by yourself, the bank usually doesn't require both people to be there to close the account. Just an FYI, call them and verify and then you'll know and that's another thing you can take care of by yourself.
Ok, It's confirmed. Going there to collect my things on Saturday. It feels liberating but I know I need to be prepared for whatever she's got there waiting for me. i.e. shouting, having OM there with her, remarks of the BF or even complete indifference (which at this point I'd appreciate) , etc
I'm thinking it's best to send the note to her parents AFTER I move my stuff out.
About the joint account she said she'll let me know later.
Relief.
If you think there might be an issue or things might get heated, bring a friend for support, someone just to stand around and maybe help with carrying boxes and stuff, having some support while you're doing this isn't a bad thing.
This account is special, even if it's in 0.00, it has an automatic interest free overdraft of more than 1000 dlls. That's why I need to cancel it. And yes, I tried to do that on my own but they need both of us.
I agree. Definitely bring a friend as a witness and also have a tape recorder in your pocket. These interactions are critical later on... A friend of mine even had a another friend video tape him taking stuff so she couldn't accuse him of stealing later.
PMA
No friends available this weekend sadly. I'll be fine. I'll have the driver with me.
I don't think she'll make a scene. She's most likely to be passive aggressive or have flowers or photos of OM in the apartment already (if not the bastard himself).
If you think there might be an issue or things might get heated, bring a friend for support, someone just to stand around and maybe help with carrying boxes and stuff, having some support while you're doing this isn't a bad thing.
This is solid advice. You'll have a witness and everyone should be on thier best behavior. Plus you'll have backup! Go in, get it and get out.
If not, be the man...be the adult but dont short yourself. Take what you feel you deserve.
I heard George Strait on the radio sing:
"Just give it away.
"There ain't nothin' in this house worth fightin' over.
"So just give it away."
My W just sent a txt message saying she has to work tomorrow and won't be in the apartment. She's says her BF is going to be there, tough. She asks if this will be ok with me?
Don't really know what to say...
One part of me wants to end this once and for all but I don;t trust the BF and I don't trust myself with her around. I don't really want to be in the position of my W saying that I took something that I shouldn't have, etc
I also suspect that W doesn't have the balls to see me...
What do you think?
I actually replied to myself in my head now. I won't go unless she's there.
I'm taking papers and stuff that isn't packed and I don't really want to get
into an argument with that woman about what to take and what not to.
Plus, why should I make this easier for herself? 2 months ago she asked me
to be moved from the apartment, when she arrived. She clearly has a problem
with actually SEEING me move out.
I don't think it's right going when she's not there. That's what I think.
(and no, I don't want to see HER, I want her to see ME and see that I'm fine and
relieved which is different).
you could reply back and tell her something like this:
"I'm OK with you not being there and your friend being there but I don't need her asking me about every item that I'm taking. Also I don't want to hear any complaints that I went searching in a room where I shouldn't have been or that I took something I shouldn't have taken because I really don't want to put up with any nonsense while I'm taking my stuff out of the apartment. Plus I don't want to waste my time if I can't find something of mine and I have to make 2 trips, I'd rather do this in one trip and not have to come back again. I've made myself clear on all of this now so I don't want to hear about any problems afterwards."
or you could say:
"you should probably be there,
if I can't find something that I'm looking for I don't think your friend will be able to find it, you'll be able to see what I'm taking so there's no issues with me taking something that I shouldn't have or some other nonsense, I want to do this in one trip without having to come back because something was missing or hidden."
In the end bro, it's up to you.
Do what's best for you.
I actually replied to myself in my head now. I won't go unless she's there.
I'm taking papers and stuff that isn't packed and I don't really want to get
into an argument with that woman about what to take and what not to.
Plus, why should I make this easier for herself? 2 months ago she asked me
to be moved from the apartment, when she arrived. She clearly has a problem
with actually SEEING me move out.
I don't think it's right going when she's not there. That's what I think.
(and no, I don't want to see HER, I want her to see ME and see that I'm fine and
relieved which is different).
I think you are on the right track. Going when she is there will eliminate potential problems. It would be much simpler to schedule a different time.
i think you are failing to see how much you lucked out.
you dont want to see her, she doesnt want to see you,
if this stuff is actually somethings that you need to have, how can pass up the opportunity to go, grab it and get out.
but, it reads to me like you want to have some final impact, go out with a bang or something ... letters to the parents, final farewells, collecting memories ... let me ask you, if your wife had done all of that would you be feeling the same impact as you are now?
I see your point, Mc Queen but the way I see it is, not once, has she have the courage to face the consequences of what she did. Why should I contribute to her current state of mind? Haven't I made things easy for her already?
Do I really want to sneak in and take advantage of the fact she's not there? I'm not that guy. And again, there will likely to be things that I want to take that haven't been packed. I don't want to have to discuss that with the BF. She deserves nothing from me but silence.
As per your last question, sorry, I don't know what you mean.
The thing is you want your W to feel the consequences in the way you think she should. It's understandable. For a long time I, more than anything, wanted my H to feel consequences as well. And he very might as well have (or maybe not, who knows!). What I have accepted though is my H may never feel consequences in the way I want him to.
"you should probably be there, you'll be able to see what I'm taking so there's no misunderstandings. I think it's important because I want to do this in one trip without having to come back because something was missing or couldn't fin it"
This seems right. The other one sounds like I have to explain myself too much.
Good point, girl. My question is, did your husband avoid seeing you leave the house? Maybe he was the one who had to leave the house, so at least he was facing some sort of consequence of his actions. He moving out.
My wife hasn't. She practically arranged for this to happen when she couldn't see me in the eye. Dropped the bomb by phone, had the affair when I wasn't in the country, asked me to move before she came back home so we wouldn't cross paths, etc.
She can afford to be a coward because her life is based around the stability we built together. The one having to deal with finding a new place, adapting to new circumstances, etc it's me.
I won't spare her anymore from this.
Actually, my H moved out under totally false pretenses. A few weeks after he dropped the bomb he came to me (he was still living at home) and said he had been doing some thinking and reading about "controlled separations" and he would like to try one. He and I spent a few days really talking about the guidelines of the "controlled separation". He went to his grandparents house which was empty at the time. He and I saw each other once a few days after he moved out then he admitted to me he had lied to me, he didn't want to do the controlled separation and he pretended he wanted to just so he had an easy way to move out.
The rest of his things were packed/boxed up and left for him to collect. This was two years ago. Now he lives with OW and their R is still going strong. Their affair began while we were married and has lasted. So, it is what it is.
He and I saw each other once a few days after he moved out then he admitted to me he had lied to me, he didn't want to do the controlled separation and he pretended he wanted to just so he had an easy way to move out.
You saw each other. He admitted (not that it makes it right). He didn't send his best friend to face you.
Actually, it was months and months until he told me he had lied to me about his intentions of moving out and the only reason he came forward was the legal proceedings that were starting. I live in a 'fault' state so all his actions were about to be very scrutinized. He only told me to attempt to alleviate legal damage on his end.
We only saw each other ONCE after he moved out to go on a "date" he had orchestrated so it looked like his intentions were somewhat pure. He spent the entire "date" texting. At the time he told me he was texting his parents who were traveling out of the country at the time and I believed him. He was texting with OW.
My H moved out in April of 2008 and since then, other than court appearances, I have seen him a total of 6 times.
I hear you and I'm sorry for what you been through.
In no way I was trying to say that he had integrity. With the info you just provided, he obviously has none of it.
My point is, moving out is an ACTIVE decision. All the decisions my W has made have been passive. she's had it too easy and I'm to blame. I thought that moving out was what a gentleman and loving husband should do to provide space. And same thing for letting her travel without me and let her remain there without me.
Anyway, she has replied now and we have agreed at a later time tomorrow. She appears to be handling this in a civilized way.
I'm thankful for at least that, Formerly, for YOUR sake.
Puppy
Civilized is good.
I am not telling you how to feel. Trust me, I get the range of emotions you can feel in a span of 60 seconds. Although my situation is certainly not new I still deal with feelings that span the spectrum.
If you feel you made mistakes in the past all you can do at this point is learn from it and alter how you do things now. If you can go to sleep each night knowing that you have made mistakes in your past (we all have!) but are trying to improve now, well, life will be just fine.
My gentle advice would be not to get too caught up in hoping your W will feel or have some grand consequence. I can openly admit from time to time I still struggle with that. My H might or might not ever have the consequence I want him to have/feel. When my mind goes to that track I try and remember how much energy I am wasting on something I have no control over.
Not easy, I know.
Me too, thanks Puppy.
I've been wondering, so what happens next? Not regarding my W, obviously.
But regarding me, this thread, etc
Should I still post on this thread after tomorrow? Should I report on how my life's going, etc?
I'm just wondering.
I appreciate your comments and advice, girl.
I doubt she will have any epiphanies any time soon. Not with the
friend there and the Law of attraction supporting every action she does.
But I intend not to waste any more energy in things I can't change.
Thanks, girl. I admire your strength.
not once, has she have the courage to face the consequences of what she did.
She practically arranged for this to happen when she couldn't see me in the eye. Dropped the bomb by phone, had the affair when I wasn't in the country, asked me to move before she came back home so we wouldn't cross paths, etc.
Cowardly indeed. Put these on your list of why this woman doesn't deserve a man like you.
BTW, are you dating yet?
Me too, thanks Puppy.
I've been wondering, so what happens next? Not regarding my W, obviously.
But regarding me, this thread, etc
Should I still post on this thread after tomorrow? Should I report on how my life's going, etc?
I hope you will. You never know what kind of twists and turns your sitch may take, and folks here are already familiar with you.
Puppy
Nope. I'm meeting new people, yes. Talking to girls more often than I used to but I still feel guilty to cross the line. I'm still married so something inside me feels as if I'm cheating. I need to over come this. Working on that.
I hope you will. You never know what kind of twists and turns your sitch may take, and folks here are already familiar with you. Puppy
Will do, dude. Will do. Just making sure, it might just become a diary of a guy trying to find himself again. Who knows. As you said, life is full of surprises.
Do I really want to sneak in and take advantage of the fact she's not there?
why? were you planning on peeing in her orange juice?
NO it's the TOOTHBRUSH for peeing on!
[quote=FormelyknownasF]Do I really want to sneak in and take advantage of the fact she's not there?
she deserves more than that but I always will be proud that I walked out from this relationship not being an ass-orifice
why? were you planning on peeing in her orange juice?
she deserves more than that but I will always be proud of walking away from this relationship not being an ass-orifice
I hope you will. You never know what kind of twists and turns your sitch may take, and folks here are already familiar with you. Puppy
Will do, dude. Will do. Just making sure, it might just become a diary of a guy trying to find himself again. Who knows.
That'll be the 834th one of those on this group of DB Forums then.
In times of pain and chaos, can come . . . good stuff.
Puppy
Ok. Today is the day. This is what I intend to do.
I'm hiring a van and a driver. The driver will help me carry the boxes
so he'll be my "buffer" if things get intense.
I will be polite but scarce on words and confident. I will try to keep the conversation to "hi" "yes" "no" and "bye". I will only ask things if it's unavoidable.
Now, it's very, very unlikely but what if she wants to talk?
My guess is telling her it's not the time or place to do that. We can arrange for that some other time, let's say Sunday. (This is in part for her not controlling me but also because I have been invited to a BBQ which I don't intend to miss!)
Again, it's unlikely but just wanted to know what you guys think.
Or should I reject talking to her on the basis that it's now me who is not interested?
Thanks.
I would say you don't be a prick or an a$$ towards her. Remember it's her loss not yours. At this is how I am thinking.
I would be telling her that your in a hurry to get this stuff done because I have somewhere to go and can't be late so that chat will have to happen another day. I say stick to those short replies and make your way out. You need to appear that your moving on for you. Good luck to you
Ok, getting ready. Waiting for my driver.
Thanks for your support and wishes.
Deep breath.
Ok. All done. Went ok. I am happy to say that I felt nothing. Didn't feel sad or anger.
It was just like getting my things from a complete stranger.
She was unusually polite. I couldn't find some papers and she offered to send them by post. Then she asked what else do I need. I asked for the papers my company's lawyers told me I'd need in the event of a divorce (her contract from work, etc). She asked me why did I need those papers. I told her the bare minimum.
I tried to be smiling and in a good mood during the whole thing. New haircut, my working out is starting to show, etc I could notice she was watching me the whole time.
She looked as is she let herself go (or maybe she was intentionally being unattractive for me hehe). It made it easier for me to be honest. I can now confirm, there's nothing there of what my wife used to be.
Now, I'm heading to a brazilian BBQ.
Not bad for saturday, huh?
You did great!
Have a wonderful time at the BBQ.
Thanks, Kimmie.
I've been ok. Busy at work which is a bit stressful at the moment.
I've been experiencing mood swings still, which I guess is normal.
My W sent a message yesterday in reply to my request of closing
that bank account. She asks if it's ok to do it this friday.
So, we are going to see each other again but I don't have any expectations.
She's been very polite but still she shows no remorse or willingness to even
discuss what happened. Of course, that politeness might be just guilt.
Sometimes I wonder if I'm being too proud.
Sometimes I wonder if I should be the one who opens the door.
Proud in not asking her directly: "I think is fair to say this is over
but do you really - in your heart- want it to end like this? I think 12 years of relationship deserve at least an explanation of what happened".
What if we are falling into that trap of "I thought you didn't care to talk" "Oh, but I only thought that because I thought YOU didn't care"?
But then sometimes, I remember how she has behaved and think I'm exposing myself to yet another of her trademark cold hearted replies.
Let's not forget that the only time we've met after this she was being "supervised" by her friend. I'm more 100% sure she's coaching her in this, instructing her not to discuss anything.
I know for sure, this time we'll be alone. No best friend watching us or coaching her. It's going to be really tough to bite my lips and not ask that question.
I hate myself for even considering this.
Many people feel a need for closure. Others prefer not to discuss anything. It is your life. As long as you don't expect it to work miracles, there's no harm is discussing. However, if you think that some special words will make the whole rotten situation go away, then you are in for a disappointment. And there is the potential ugly blame game. Sometimes it is better to not start the conversation than to hear that it was all your fault. But this could be the last time in your life that you see this person, so if you have something to say, and you want to say it, go ahead.
Make sure you walk away with some self respect.
I don't think she's in a position of making me lose what I've gained already.
She's been contacting me to arrange the details on closing the bank account on friday. She's making this feel almost as if nothing had happened and we're just a married couple applying to get a loan.
She ends every message with "Is this ok for you?" "Thank you" etc.
I've been replying "ok" "no", etc. not more than 3 words.
I don't know how to read this.
Is she trying to be nice because in her eyes she's done nothing wrong so she's just ending this with "grace"?
or
Is she more at ease with what she did because she was able to see I'm fine ?
How should I respond to this "niceness"? I just don't want to take this as false hope.
Assume it's a business transaction, and be thankful that she's being civil with you. It's how you two should be relating right now anyway.
Anything else is just mindreading, F.
Puppy
She ends every message with "Is this ok for you?"
she could be just trying to get thru this with the least hassle for her. or...
She's testing you. She wants to be led. She maybe doesn't really want to make this decision.
"No wife none of this is OK with me. I have decided I won't share my wife with another man and I will do whatever I need to do to protect myself."
Let's her know exactly what you think. Short and to the point.
She ends every message with "Is this ok for you?" "Thank you" etc.
I've been replying "ok" "no", etc. not more than 3 words.
I don't know how to read this.
sometimes there is really nothing to gather from a couple words, sometimes there is,
sometimes a thank you is filled with a world of graditude, sometimes it means get out of my face,
sometimes you can analyze something to death and still walk away without the slightest clue,
for prespective:
Thirteen Ways of Looking at a Blackbird
Wallace Stevens
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I
Among twenty snowy mountains,
The only moving thing
Was the eye of the blackbird.
II
I was of three minds,
Like a tree
In which there are three blackbirds.
III
The blackbird whirled in the autumn winds.
It was a small part of the pantomime.
IV
A man and a woman
Are one.
A man and a woman and a blackbird
Are one.
V
I do not know which to prefer,
The beauty of inflections
Or the beauty of innuendoes,
The blackbird whistling
Or just after.
VI
Icicles filled the long window
With barbaric glass.
The shadow of the blackbird
Crossed it, to and fro.
The mood
Traced in the shadow
An indecipherable cause.
VII
O thin men of Haddam,
Why do you imagine golden birds?
Do you not see how the blackbird
Walks around the feet
Of the women about you?
VIII
I know noble accents
And lucid, inescapable rhythms;
But I know, too,
That the blackbird is involved
In what I know.
IX
When the blackbird flew out of sight,
It marked the edge
Of one of many circles.
X
At the sight of blackbirds
Flying in a green light,
Even the bawds of euphony
Would cry out sharply.
XI
He rode over Connecticut
In a glass coach.
Once, a fear pierced him,
In that he mistook
The shadow of his equipage
For blackbirds.
XII
The river is moving.
The blackbird must be flying.
XIII
It was evening all afternoon.
It was snowing
And it was going to snow.
The blackbird sat
In the cedar-limbs.
I ended up collecting the letters, pictures, etc of my W and I from the apartment. I don't know how or why, some notes my wife made on a pad ended up in that package.
Most of them are lists about things she hate in her life (her parents abandoning her, her friends abandoning her, feeling fat, etc). There also some lists of things she feels grateful for (one of them is me and her marriage.
This just confirms what I already knew, her issues have deeper roots than whatever REALLY happened in our marriage.
My question is, should I give them back to her? Should I throw them away?
F
We all know how hard this is, but you have to detach in order to stop focusing on the things you can't control. Just let go... If she wants it she will let you know. In the mean time figure out what you want and for heaven's sake stop the
"paralysis of analysis"
Stay strong.
PMA
Thanks PMA. You are right. I just have good days and bad days.
This is not one of the good ones, sadly.
If you took something of hers by mistake, send it back to her. You set a good precedent. What if she has something that you want back? Just put it in an envelope and mail it. You don't need to put a note in, but if you do, then you could just write, "Sorry, took this by accident."
I understand and I'm sorry. Hang in there. Sometimes this rollercoaster will make you want to throw up other times you will be raising your hands high...
I should write that one down. lol. God knows I've experience both.
PMA
Sometimes I wonder if I'm being too proud.
I don't think you're being too proud. As you said, "still she shows no remorse or willingness to even discuss what happened".
Sometimes I wonder if I should be the one who opens the door.
What if we are falling into that trap of "I thought you didn't care to talk" "Oh, but I only thought that because I thought YOU didn't care"?
But then sometimes, I remember how she has behaved and think I'm exposing myself to yet another of her trademark cold hearted replies.
That could be a concern in many situations, but in the case of an affair . . . I think she needs to be the one to open the door.
I hate myself for even considering this.
Please be kind to yourself F. Your feelings are totally understandable. When we've been rejected by someone important to us, it is important not to also reject ourselves by putting ourselves down for feeling as we do. Just don't
act based on those feelings.
Many people feel a need for closure. Others prefer not to discuss anything. It is your life. As long as you don't expect it to work miracles, there's no harm is discussing.
I disagree. I think there can be harm in discussing.
Make sure you walk away with some self respect.
I don't think she's in a position of making me lose what I've gained already.
You are right, she can't make you lose self-respect, only your actions can do that. Act in a way which demonstrates self-respect.
Is she more at ease with what she did because she was able to see I'm fine ?
How should I respond to this "niceness"? I just don't want to take this as false hope.
She may be more comfortable now that it doesn't look like there will be a 'showdown at the OK corral' or moments of high drama. Would this fit with what you know of her?
Re: her notes, I suggest you wait until after the banking is taken care of and then mail with a note as Lotus suggests. I have to admit though, that I would advise differently if you had found a list of things she hated about you.
Nope. I'm meeting new people, yes. Talking to girls more often than I used to but I still feel guilty to cross the line. I'm still married so something inside me feels as if I'm cheating. I need to over come this. Working on that.
Think of it this way, there are situations which only turn around when the LBS becomes interested in someone else. Can you really say that you have done everything possible to save your marriage if you aren't even willing to see other women?
Thanks for such a detailed reply, D!
Really, really helps.
She may be more comfortable now that it doesn't look like there will be a 'showdown at the OK corral' or moments of high drama. Would this fit with what you know of her?
Yes, definitely. She hates the drama. (At one point she even said to her BF that she can't stand how dense and dramatic OM was when he talks about his problems with his W).
Can you really say that you have done everything possible to save your marriage if you aren't even willing to see other women?
It's not as if I'm not trying, it just hasn't worked the way I'd like to. I'd like to date but most of the girls I've met are parties and have shown any interest on me were looking for something more physical. I haven't met anyone looking just to date.
But believe me, I'm at a point where I'd love to date someone and practice my self confidence, etc.
Reporting from the trenches.
We met today to close the bank account. She was late and a bit tense in the beginning. I made eye contact when I had to but I generally kept looking straight, always smiling, always upbeat. Dealing with the bank clerk rather than with my W.
Again, I could see my W checking me out from corner of my eye.
The meeting ended.
There was an awkward silence when leaving the bank. She softened up and for a second I saw the woman I used to love. I was about to say good bye when she interrupted and said to me:
"Today you look happy"
"Well, It's a beautiful day, isn't it?"
"Yes, it's beautiful"
I really didn't want to have a conversation so I just ended it there:
"Ok. Have a nice day. Bye"
We were both smiling. Anyone there could have easily thought we were flirting.
That's it.
Do I have any hopes? Nope. She's too stubborn and also as soon as she meets her friend she's going to tell her to remember how miserable she felt with me.
And me? I still can't forget what she did.
So no hope for now, sadly.
F
You did great. Remember, you shouldn't have to convince your wife to love u. Period. When she's ready and if you're still wanting it u will know.
Peace. PMA
Thank you! And yes, you're right, I can't convince her and I won't.
I guess I just feel much better now if this ends like this: with a smile rather than with blame, grudges, etc
I can live with that.
And also... drinks and dinner with friends today
No time to waste pondering when I can just keep walking.
Sounds great! Keep her guessing. You are an international man of mystery...
PMA
Thanks, PMA. The only thing is, this might have been the last time we meet.
I ran out of chances to keep her guessing.
I think you did great and walking away like you did, upbeat, was the ultimate in keeping her guessing.
Sir, I applaud you! Well done.
Thank you, Kimmie. I hope you're ok ! I was missing you around 'ere!
This is something someone shared with me today.
Letting Go Takes Love
To let go does not mean to stop caring,
it means I can't do it for someone else.
To let go is not to cut myself off,
it's the realization I can't control another.
To let go is not to enable,
but allow learning from natural consequences.
To let go is to admit powerlessness, which means
the outcome is not in my hands.
To let go is not to try to change or blame another,
it's to make the most of myself.
To let go is not to care for,
but to care about.
To let go is not to fix,
but to be supportive.
To let go is not to judge,
but to allow another to be a human being.
To let go is not to be in the middle arranging all the outcomes,
but to allow others to affect their destinies.
To let go is not to be protective,
it's to permit another to face reality.
To let go is not to deny,
but to accept.
To let go is not to nag, scold or argue,
but instead to search out my own shortcomings and correct them.
To let go is not to adjust everything to my desires,
but to take each day as it comes and cherish myself in it.
To let go is not to criticize or regulate anybody,
but to try to become what I dream I can be.
To let go is not to regret the past,
but to grow and live for the future.
nice and true.
I know it's a long time, but trust me, what a difference a year makes. It gets better and letting go gets easier.
It's tough but I know I can handle it.
I lost her but I still got myself.
Thanks, Sgfan.
Also, with time, comes perspective and seeing things as they really were. I was blinded by nearly unconditional love for my xw. I looked past the fact that she was a criminal, liar and adultress. I thought I could fix everything, but I was wrong.
Seeing this helped me to realize that life is short and I deserve better.
Forgive, accept and move on...be your best.
The hardest thing for me is to stop looking at my W as a confused and lost girl that maybe one day will find her way back home.
And yes, sometimes, I think of her on those terms as liar and adulterer but soon after, I think that I can't judge her based just on what she's done in the past 3 months. I can't forget about those 12 years when she was the most lovely and considered person I've known.
Trying to get the balance right is tricky.
Long time no see guys. Here's an update of what's happened since my last post:
- I was doing consistently good for about a month. GALing etc. but things at work started going not so great and since then I've had a bit of a relapse that has extended for 2 weeks now. Good days and bad days.
- I've now moved to a new place. I'm sharing it with a girl, friend of mine who needed to rent a room in her property. Today is my first night there. It will allow me to save some money and it's closer to work.
- Changing places and the fact that work is not great right now have been the causes of me missing the days where my W used to provide emotional support when I had a bad day. My "new" stability has been shaken.
- Still not a word from my W. She hasn't even sent me those papers I was going to post. I sent her a msg today asking her about them, no reply.
- Finally, I kept my distance and avoided any potential information about my wife but just today I STUMBLED across an old online diary she used to keep and found out she UPDATED IT last April. The post is about the recent even in her life. She just refers to it as a chaotic time, where she did things she never thought she could, hurt people badly along the way really badly, had many sleepless nights and ended up bruised and shed many, many tears but in the end, she has learned that she has chosen the only relationship that matters which is the one with herself. She says she's proud of herself because she lost the fear of jumping into the unknown and now she's ready to fly...
Does it make any sense to any of you? Care to explain?...
Hope you're all fine friends!
F
the only relationship that matters which is the one with herself. She says she's proud of herself because she lost the fear of jumping into the unknown and now she's ready to fly...
Yeah, McQueen, I'm all for know yourself. But that doesn't mean fckn' other people's lives in the process and show no remorse, does it?
She's still thinking this is all part of a divine plan, law of attracting, etc. I quote.
"No point in looking back, that's like a caterpillar growing wings and then not flying".
So, let's just pretend nothing ever happened.
Denying one's self and not taking responsibility for one's actions.
How's that to know oneself?
It doesnt matter what she thinks now does it?
It reads to me through these 84 pages that she has been holding you back. Upset, unhappy, thinking about how to get things back to the way they were instead of moving forward. There is a "divine plan" in motion for you, and that is clearly why you need to know yourself!
Want to hear something funny? Remember I was traveling around Europe?
Ok so I submitted my expenses to my company and after not getting them back for almost two months, I found out they paid that money into my joint account by mistake. Who has that money now? My wife.
My company is aware of this and admit their mistake so they're paying me the money agai. Now, they have asking me to try and recover the original payment from my (ex) W.
I contacted her asking to transfer the money back to me in a civilized, courteous way.
So far, not a word about this or the papers she agreed to send.
Two words:
Wire fraud.
Puppy
Two words:
Wire fraud.
Puppy
AGREED!
Send her a message that the company is thinking of pursuing criminal proceedings. See how she jumps on that ship.
During my sitch, I caught my wife taking my personal prescription info out of my drawer (for my ADs), and stashing it -- presumably to use against me legally (I later confirmed that was the case, thru intel). So upon advice on got on this forum, I printed out a whole bunch o' stuff from the internet about the HPAA laws, and how that's a felony, and purposely left it lying on the kitchen counter.
I also RETURNED the paperwork that she had (it was the label and that printed out list of side effects, etc., that typically accompanies a prescription) to its rightful owner.
Of course, the really cool dynamic of this whole thing -- which was NOT lost on me at the time --
was that there wasn't a damned thing she could say about me taking it from her drawer, because she wasn't supposed to have it to begin with!! The other really foolish thing she did (my DB mentor had this theory that people in affairs instantly lose 40 I.Q. points. He was dead serious, and I think pretty accurate in that assessment, actually) was that -- even AFTER I "stole" the prescription paperwork back from her drawer and returned it to MY drawer the FIRST time, she did it AGAIN a second time, and then when I took it back AGAIN (this was before I printed out and left the HPAA stuff for her to find), she made note of what my two prescriptions were on a piece of paper, so she wouldn't have to take my paperwork again. So now I had her notes,
in her own handwriting!!!
Puppy
The sad thing is that they bput themselves in realy bad situations. Maybe it's Karma, but not too long ago, my xw swiped $5 of my money out of our old joint account. $5!!
SHe said she deperately needed the money and paid it back at the end of the month. She now lives with the OM who doesnt have a job so she pays all the bills, food, etc.
FIVE DOLLARS?! holy moly!
This keeps getting weird:
Got a phone call from my my former landlady. My wife hasn't paid rent and she can't get hold of her... This is extremely unusual, my W is the kind of person who pays the bills way ahead of the due date. She's very organised.
I'm a bit worried. I can understand she doesn't want to talk to me but... the landlady?
Unfortunately it's not UNUSUAL behavior for WAS's. Once they go off the deepend the fineline from fantasy and reality continues to grow. That is why it is CRITICAL to seperate finances and protect yourself ASAP.
God Speed. PMA
No it's the Law of Attraction.
Not to mention the laws of gravity
FIVE DOLLARS?! holy moly!
Yes five dollars. I'm kind of glad to have that sort of drama out of my life now.
OK, here's what happened now.
It's been a month since she offered to send me my papers and more than a week since I ask her to send the wrongly paid money back.
After days without knowing anything about my ex W I worried a bit about her and sent a message to her cousin. I told him that I had a call from the landlady and that it was unusual for her not to pay rent so it'd be a good idea to give her a call. I told him there was no need to report back to me anything, "just make sure she's ok" I wrote.
A week after this, I finally hear from my W. A cold and rude email.
--
F,
I don't have the time or energy to keep on solving your life problems. You can get the papers through other means.
About the money, I'm taking it as a first payment for the money I* (She should had said we) loan to your mother. I expect the rest to be paid by the end of the year as agreed.
I want to ask you please to stop calling my family to wash my dirty laundry in public. It's very embarrassing to get a call from my cousin all worried for something it's not important. If you have anything to ask me or want to know how am I doing, call me directly.
X
-----
I wanted to reply immediately because it made me very angry but I thought I'd share this here first and get your opinion.
My thoughts are
- Please remember that it was YOU who offered to send those papers, not me. I took care of it all already. And btw, I fail to see how cheating on me with a married man is solving my life problems.
- About the money. I'll pass your message to the Finance Director of the company. One question I'll ask is, do you really want to make this about money? Haven't you done enough? Because if you want to do maths, we can start by taking off that debt the rent's deposit that you'll get from the apartment once you vacate it, all the things you kept and most importantly, the ticket and money you spent in our Anniversary trip because I refuse to pay for your affair.
- I can understand your embarrassment because I was equally embarrassed to get a call from the landlady asking me to pay the rent because she couldn't get hold of you. It might not be a big deal for you, but it's a big deal to me.
- I tried to contact you directly but you don't reply my msgs so, what am I supposed to do?. And also, pls remember the one who didn't want to meet up and talk was you. Not me.
Sounds about right to me. Stand your ground!
Puppy
Ditto!!
She's trying to blame you for her situation. Just give it right back to her. Dont carry her stuff for her.
Stay strong. PMA
ok so i sent that email with my thoughs and all in a couldnt be happier tone of voice and this is what she replied:
im not going to fight with you. i was very pleased to get your email and to know that you are happy and doing great. thats the best news i have received in a long time. thank you.
nice day to you too.
x
.................
did she snap?
I'm confused. I didn't get a 'happy tone' from your above draft. Did you change it?
no no i didnt change it. it was tough what i meant is that at some point i said "no one is asking you to solve my problems because i actually have very. this whole thing you did has opened so many lots of doors for me. ive met new people and couldint be happier.I dont need you.
i just say im happy and doing well. but the rest of the email is in line with what i posted here previously
thanks dudess
Okay. That makes more sense.
I think "I'm not going to fight with you" means "You totally called me on my BS." I haven't a clue about the rest.
Do you need to take any further steps to protect yourself financially? People tend to lose a lot of money when they get into the LOA/Hicks. (Learning how to attract abundance isn't cheap ya know.
)
thanks dudess. i already took all of the steps to protect myself financially. she cant touch me.
funny that you say that. she is been planning forever a trip to one of those abraham cruises or conventions and now nothing cant stop her. shes definitelly goung to blow a few grand in there.
im a little surprised that the 'best news she has had in a long time" come from the person she dumped.
I really dont know what to reply or if i should reply.
i told her to stop sending me emails to work.
One thing to note...I've noticed that when I have coupled my "standing my ground" and "bad news" emails with happy niceties about how I'm doing.... my xw ignores the uncomfortable stuff and focuses on the happy joy stuff. So, I've resorted to not letting her know how I'm doing at all and just being neutral and all about business.
I get better results that way. Oh...dont forget the "respinse requested" phrase.