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The last month has been horrible but I think I'm starting to pick myself up off the floor.

My H announced a month ago that he wanted to go to my family's cabin for the weekend to "clear his head". We'd been arguing that previous week about a variety of issues, mostly revolving around what he wants to do and what I thought he needed to do. This is my second marriage and I have two teenage kids from the first. The kids have known H since they were 7 and 8, so he's been in their lives for nine years.

H is an avid skier and chooses ski days over time with the family all the time. He would like to live in the Colorado mountains and we have talked about moving up to the mtns after the kids are in college. Well, a few weeks ago he told me about a job opportunity that came up and it would be a lateral move with the same employer. Rather than being supportive, I shot the idea now straight away. Too many bills, gotta wait til the kids are gone, etc.

Well, the weekend at the cabin has now turned into a month away from home. We've met a couple times and I did everything wrong at first. Begged him to come back, tried giving him little gifts like a CD mix, picnic lunch, I've cried and I've tried the guilt trip. Nothing's worked. His position is he needs to get to the mountains ASAP, and can't be with me. He hasn't used the D word, but did want to separate finances this week.

Then I heard about the 180. For the last two weeks, I've been working on detaching. I told him I can't make him stay with me, and I'm sorry for not being supportive beforehand. I am trying to be encouraging about the job opportunity. I'm not calling or texting. Trying to stay low.

Complicated by a female co-worker that he's been talking to A LOT. I checked his cell phone records two times and asked twice about what was going on. He assured me they're just friends but I suspect there's at least an emotional affair going on. I think the bottom line with this is I can't control him or what he does anyway. I haven't brought up the friend since I started the 180.

We met this week to separate bills. I thought I handled it very calmly and tried to be friendly, asking some questions about the job opp and ski days... At the end of the discussion, I said I thought he was doing better. He agreed and said I did too. I nodded my head and then he said "are you really"? I looked away as not to cry and said yes, I was doing okay and I probably should go.

So, is that comment at the end a good sign or no sign at all? It's probably too early to tell if the 180 is working. Any words of wisdom for me? I'm trying to be hopeful, patient and just give him all the space he needs. But it's hard not being able to talk to my BF. I am reading DB and reading other posts on this site.

Hang in there sweetie.
It is about to be the weekend and it may seem like you don't get many posts.
Please explain a little more of your sitch so that others can better give advice.
Read the entire book cover to cover.
I was where you are almost 3 years ago.
I love your first line.
I FELT THE SAME WAY!
Like I had to use a ladle to gather myself up off the floor.
Trust me you will get better.
Keep posting here and keep reading.

I did end up turning things around and saved my M.
There are many beautiful people here who will help you.
I don't always post daily, but I will keep my eye on you as well.

I lived in Denver for a year .
The Mountains are breath taking and the weather there is to die for.
I loved it.
Take care and God bless,
Ali

Thanks for the response, Ali. It's wonderful to hear from someone that was able to turn things around. I'll keep posting and will read the book from cover to cover - thanks!

Colorado is beautiful and we live about 2 hours from the ski areas. H is 31, I just turned 44. So, a big age difference but we never felt like it mattered. Been married for five years, dated for three years beforehand. He had a tougher childhood with divorced parents, bounced around a lot. He always said that because he had to grow up early and take care of his special needs sister and parents at times, that he felt older than his age and I didn't act mine.

It seems he's having a bit of a MLC. Has grown more distant in the past six months. Not wanting to answer questions about what he's doing or who he's with. If there are women involved, I know I get touchy about it and need to work on my trust issues. Since Christmas, he's been pulling away. I've tried to draw him closer but that's had the exact opposite result.

He told me he feels stuck. Feels like he can't be at home and can't be with me. Says we've been moving in different directions. Is resentful of the time I spend with the kids (son's on the basketball team and this last season did take a lot of time). He didn't attend a single game. He just wants to be alone. He hasn't said I love you first in several months, and after reading up, I've stopped saying it as well.

I'm working on my personal responsibility for the sitch. I did put the kids' activities ahead of time with H. I passed on opportunities to do things like ski with him and I should have made him more of a priority in my life. I think I didn't quite know how to balance the needs of my spouse with those of my kids. I also was very quick to pass judgment on any ideas or concerns H would bring up, instead of really listening to him and validating his thoughts. For example, my dtr knew some friends that were smoking a hooka? and H offered to talk to her about it. I wanted to know what exactly he'd say, like I had to approve the conversation ahead of time. I wasn't trusting his judgment.

Logically I understand the 180 and how it should work. I think I'm doing a good job giving him the space he wanted, but I underestimated how difficult it is. Especially when my kids aren't home, I'm feeling lost. Every movie, song, etc. reminds me of him. Gotta find something new and different to keep myself distracted I guess.

Hi there,

I too can completely identify with your first line there! I feel the same way.

For me things started right before I was due to go away for 2 weeks without H. This is the 1st time since we've been married (2.5 yrs) that ive traveled out of country w.o him and for that long. He dropped the whole bomb about not being happy/not knowing what he wanted to do right before I left. But assured me to go ahead and go enjoy my time with my family that he was not going to make any decisions in 2 weeks time and we would discuss it when i got back. He said it would be good for him to have some time to think. By the time I got back he had decided he wanted to separate.

My H too seems to be having some kind of life crisis, some of the comments you posted sound similar to what my H has said. And he too has been talking a lot to a female co-worker, she was a friend of both of ours and he assures me they are just friends too. It is hard seeing someone you have been best friends(and M to) distancing from you and becoming better friends with someone else, especially another woman.

I too am pretty new to this and have been working on detaching and 180's for the last 3 weeks. I have had some positive results but very small steps.

My H is not asking for D either, so not sure what that means in all of this.

I too have had comments from H recently stating that 'I am doing better' and asking 'am I?' I felt like saying NO OF COURSE NOT! but I didnt!! I have wondered if it is out of guilt he is asking or because he really cares....

Sorry I am not able to offer too much advice, but I can offer support as I am trying a lot of the same as you right now! Just will keep seeing how it goes and trying to do better. I just had to comment as some of your statements ring true for me as well.

Good luck this weekend keeping busy and distracted.

cb

Hi mnt_dreams and welcome to our community here on the DB board. You will meet your neighbors as they come to your "thread" (your story here) and make responses to your posts. If you look down close to the bottom on the list of forums, you will see abbreviations that are used. Not all, but some common ones. It helps. Anyway, if you will reach out to others and respond to their posts, it will help you build up a support system quicker here on the board. When you want to "vent" your frustrations, it is best to tell us in advance that you are just blowing off some steam. Same thing when you are seeking advice....just say you need it.

There are all types of personalities here in the community but most of the "regulars" are very nice people and if you will stick with us, I think you will grow as a person and you will survive your stitch whichever or however it may turn out.

After saying all of that, let me give my two cents worth on what I am thinking about your stitch (situation). Your H was probably very tied down to his responsibilities when he was a boy at home. I am sure he must have felt "trapped" in that. Then he married a woman who already had a family so that meant more responsibility......which is not to be a cop-out for wanting to "escape" his life with you and the kids, but he feels a "crisis" and unfortunately he has found another woman to talk to after you rejected his idea and desire to move where the snow and mountains are. He probably took it as you rejecting "him". Men are wired very different than the way we are and it is sure hard to understand them, but we make our mistake by thinking they should think like we do. They don't!

Reading the DR book is the best thing right now. Follow it to the letter. You are doing the right thing by backing off and giving him plenty of space and time to get his head together. However, I want to warn you that the worse is probably yet to come. You need to be prepared to discover that he is more involved with this OW than you even think at this time. I hope I am wrong, but it just seems to follow in most cases. He may even decide to move without you and the kids or he may leave you for this OW. So.....you need to think real hard and decide what it is you want, what you are willing to do and how long you are willing to wait. You need to know what the "deal breaker" will be for you in this R. You need to have boundaries set. Most of all, while he is away from you and the kids, you need to do a severe evaluation of yourself. Take a personal inventory and give yourself a grade of how your appearance is when you are out in public and when are at the house all day.... and when you are alone with your H. How is your personality? Have you gotten slack about some habits. Maybe formed some bad habits that you know he doesn't like, but you've kept doing them? Just get down to the nitty-gritty of everything from the tone of your voice to your laughter. Are you too loud at parties? Do you use bad language or anything that would appear unlady-like? Everything you can think of....try to see it through his eyes.

Now, while he is gone and maybe even spending time with the OW, your project will be do to an over-haul on yourself. Get a different hair-do. Maybe a different color to help make you look younger. Update your make-up and your ward robe. Get an exercise program going b/c it will give you energy, lift depression, lose weight and just be an over-all good plan. It even gives a person a sense of self-confidence! If you have self-esteem issues, then get some self-help books and read them. Make this time you have away from him as a time to work on yourself, so when he does see you again......you will knock his socks off by your improved appearance and personality and attitude. Attitude......oh, that gets us women in a lot of trouble sometimes, doesn't it? Maybe you need to work on that also and even "practice" having a positive and uplifting, and happy attitude so when he comes home (hopefully), he will discover that you are once again, a fun person to be around. You need to become a person that he had rather be with over anyone else in the world.

The main thing to know is that all of this will be for YOU. It is not a gimmick to get your H back home again! The changes you make need to be for you and for the rest of your life. You have a lot of years ahead of you to enjoy and you want to be the best "you" that is possible. Hopefully, it is not too late and he will see those changes and respond to them. However, don't be surprised if he doesn't......right away, anyway. All you have to do is read the stories right here on this board and you will find how they all begin to sound alike. But, if you are willing to pour yourself into this project of working on you, and coming here to post as often as you possibly can, and realize that this may take a long time for your H to get his head cleared and decide what it is he truly wants. You must also realize that if he decides he no longer wants to stay in a M with you.......all these things you have done will certainly not be in vain b/c you will be stronger and better to move forward in your life and you will learn a lot if you will stay focused on what you are doing.....and not what he is or isn't doing. You don't make any references to your changes to him. You don't talk about the future or ask him questions about it. You don't push him, chase him, or pursue him in any way whatsoever. Just leave him alone and "wait".

You dashed his dreams and now he is trying to deal with that and I'm afraid he will not handle things the way he should but I hope I am wrong and he will get his head together and come back home. But even if he does, he may be very unhappy b/c of you calling the shots about what he could or could not do.

Do you work outside the home or are you a SAHM?

It may seem like a long time to him before the kids go to college and it is just the two of you. He may be thinking that he won't be able to do then what he wants to be doing now. Maybe this is a stuped question, but what difference does it make where you live until the kids go to college? I moved around my entire life and never knew what it was to stay in the same house over two or three years at a time. It does not stunt a kid's growth. Anyway, it just seems to me that with you spending too much time away from him and at ballgames, etc. and then using the kids and college as an excuse not to move where he wanted.......you really hurt him and dashed his dreams and that is a bad thing where a man is concerned.......according to I've been told and read.

You said there had never been a problem with the age difference, and that is good, however, depending "how" you shot down his idea of wanting to move......I would think that it would be easy for him to feel like he was just one of the kids. Sorry to be so blunt, but maybe it is b/c I have been reading books on how some women treat their H's more like they were the H's mother rather than his wife. So, I hope he did not feel like you were talking to him as if you were his mother. I knew a couple where the W was ten years older than the H and at first everything was fine, but as the years passed by, she began dishing out orders to him and calling all the shots just like she did with her kids. Not good! I just threw that punch in free of charge...

So, now you know I put in more than two-cents worth (lol). But hope to hear from you often and that you will be tough and take whatever anyone has to say to you, okay?

Take care,
Sandi2

Thanks for the responses. I appreciate the direct feedback without any sugar coating. I agree it probably will get worse before it gets better. Also agree there's probably more going on with the OW than it seems, maybe even a PA, but since I don't have any direct evidence of an affair and he's already left me, I guess there's not much I can do. My MF that works with H told me yesterday the rest of the guys at work are very uncomfortable with the OW and H talking so much, and think H is stupid for leaving me. That was nice to hear.

I appreciate the ideas for taking care of myself and giving serious thought to R and what boundaries I need to set in place.

I screwed up last night and went to see my H's dad. He confirmed H is probably in a MLC and said H doesn't feel his age and I'm acting mine. Stupid of me to talk to the FIL I know, but at least I'm angry today instead of feeling like a doormat. I won't talk to FIL about H again - realize that's not helpful or apppropriate. H is acting childish, but to Sandi's point, maybe I have treated him more like a kid than my partner. Something to think about while I'm alone.

? - how should I handle the detaching, when we have to work out bills/finances. Okay to send email or text and just keep it factual without any ILY's, etc? H is not open to seeing a C at all.

mnt:
Keep the contact with your H purely business, and only on a "as-required" basis. At this point, any ILYs will be interpreted as pursuing, and you don't want to do that. Detach and focus on yourself.

Will keep it purely business and as-required. Thx.

FIL sent email to see how I was. Told him I was sorry for venting last night and am much better today and ready to get on with my life. FIL said H will be in touch with me, and plans to talk to the kids too. I'm glad he may contact the kids as he hasn't really talked to them since he left. But what else could he want to talk to me about? I know it's speculation, but I'm trying to think ahead. Will try to just focus on the all-business approach and lovingly detach.

Been reading the DR book today. I had DB, but not DR. Great stuff, especially about the MLC. It's spot on.

Sometimes people in MLC want to hurry through and get a D b/c they have the "grass is greener" sickness and if he has OW to push him then he may start that sort of talk sooner than you expect. Just do not do anything to make it easier for him to get a D. By that, I mean that he has to do everything. You don't enable his affair or getting a D. I would want to discuss what he plans to tell the children and certainly be there when he does any talking or you may be very sorry you aren't. People in MLC are not in their right frame of mind and they will make you come off a looking as bad as possible b/c they try to justify what they are doing to the family. So, stand up for your rights and protect the kids.

I don't know much about the legal side of what you asked before. Thankfully, I have not been down that road, but I think just b/b they file does not always mean there will be a D. In most states, it takes time. So, condiser time on your side. You have done very well so far about catching on to talking about business only and show your stength when talking to him. Don't break down and don't talk about your R with him. He has to have time to let this A fade out. Wheather you are still interested in him after he gets through with the MCL and the A, etc. may be a different story.

Take care,
Sandi

Mtn Dreams,

Well this IS a familiar theme for me...but FWIW, I read somewhere that a third of divorces filed are never finalized... and besides there are those who reconcile even after div. I actually have two in my family, which is weird, I know.

In hindsight, since the move was lateral what was your objection? That the kids would be uprooted? Were there no advantages to moving to an environment that MIGHT be more wholesome or outdoorsy? I say this to point it out in case it becomes an option down the road. My sitch is best summarized in my signature block but essentially instead of colorado mountains, my h was nuts about Alaska and we had lived there in the 90's for the military and I firmly opposed going back. H had his reasons but to me, my desires to decide against this one move, after so many for him was ignored. This was crushing to me and a big departure from our early years when we were good partners. We struggled with it and he made selfish choices and ultimately I still did give the place another try--AFTER H made huge changes that I HOPE are real and permanent. Long story short, Alaska did not work out for H, for many reasons unrelated to me, (But my desire to leave WAS finally enough--but I wanted H to see reasons OTHER THAN ME for HIM TO CHOOSE to leave that place, as weird as that sounds...I just wanted the whole thing really out of his system and not be blamed for it 10 years from now)....His "discoveries" were almost ALL things that I had recognized and brought up 30 times before he left But it was like talking to my plate of carrots as far as getting through to him....

Now there is no need for me to say that, b/c for the most part I think he's embarrassed. But Is the mountain area your h likes so much pricier? What are the chances he'll NOT want to stay there? If without you and the kids? Did he want kids of his own, or did he enjoy being with the kids as a step dad?
My H was apart from us a lot longer than I thought he would be, before he got too lonely and started opening his eyes to what makes him happy. That sucked but at least I don't worry that he'll want to rush back there again. I think it is OUT of his system. But while he was focussed on it, nothing I said could get through. I argue for a living (am a L) and it drove me crazy to see intelligent rational OR Emotional pleading even by our children, fall on deaf ears. However I will say that just b/c they don't call, does not mean they don't think of you or miss you. You can't erase that many years overnight.

But then my H just could not hear me. He had to be alone enough to figure it out.So I GAL, tried to be a woman only a fool would leave, and made plans for a life without him and parts of that became increasingly appealing to me. IN fact, I believe within a month of my taking a trip with the kids overseas without h, and sending out applications for jobs in ITALY, without it being a "tactic" he seemed to call noticeably more. A month after our return from the trip, he started asking me to join him in the Tundra, then "begging" etc. In some ways I feel I wasted so much time resisting but his idea was really an expensive one. I'm glad we didn't lose our home...mainly I would not uproot d20 then in her senior year of high school. No regrets there. But h has some repair work on that R for sure. At least he knows this now, and wants to do it.

Sometimes I think if we had compromised earlier, he could have spent somee months away up there and then gotten it out of his system. Sounds crazy and it would have been, but I now WONDER if he would have lasted there for less time, and been away less time, if I had just said "go ahead" see you every few months. That appalled me, and would have felt terrible and just wacky. But what I just went through was pretty crazy and damn long, too....

Read the book and think of what he fell in love with when he met you, including the parts about the boys. Take sandi's advice b/c it's very helpful, though tough. OH Do the kids like the snow at all? See if they can share some time without you there....but be ready for the "talk" coming...be involved and make sure the kids know they are NOT the burdens they'll feel they are. Don't tell THEM that you should have made H more of a priority, if you know what I mean

Good luck, but be prepared for a long roller coaster ride if this is MLC. iF it's your basic OW....those R's rarely last, for what it's worth and I think the average length is 6 months but I don't know when the "clock starts" on that.

Sorry you are here, but you are in the right place.

(( j ))

Wow - great insight from you both. Thx so much.

I'll consider the talk and my presence for the upcoming conversation with the kids, along with the excellent points about H having to "discover" the objections for the move himself.

H did not want his own children and has been great with D15 and S17 since they were little. In the last couple years, he seemed to become more distant as we would be gone in the evenings for games/activities and he'd have to do his own thing for dinner, etc. As he became more distant, I became resentful... and so the story goes.

I objected originally to the move because the kids have two years left in HS. I have shared custody with my ex, and if we lived 2 hrs away we'd have to renegotiate our arrangements. In hindsight, I think the X would have worked something out with me or maybe even I could move and leave the kids here during the wk, wknds with me? It would be more expensive for H to be in a mnttown. Single guys usually share apts with others (maybe 4-5 to a 2 bdrm) to cut the rent. H said he didn't want to do that, but I don't know financially how else he could.

Thx again for the input which I'll consider carefully; especially reflecting on why he fell in love with me and the kids and how to be a woman only a fool would leave and make plans for a life without him.

Quote:

So I GAL, tried to be a woman only a fool would leave, and made plans for a life without him

I just love that quote!! If we women would live like that from the inside out every day of our lives......wow, we would knock them right out of their shoes!

? - as I try to GAL, and since H isn't living at home right now but does come by for clothes, etc., what thoughts does anyone have about wedding photos, etc. that I've got up in the bedroom. It's hard to look at them all the time, but what message would it send if I put the photos away for awhile?

This is just my personal opinion, but if it bothers you to look at them, put them out of sight for a while. As for what your H thinks, maybe it will cause him to wonder. Be prepared with an answer if he should ask why you put them up. However, I would not tell him that it hurt to look at them b/c that shows you being "needy". I might even go as far as to say something like, "I decided it was time to make some changes." If he asks what that means, just don't answer him. I have learned that from my H. Just b/c you are asked a question does not mean you have to answer it. It "may" appear to be rude, as I have always thought it to be, but in DBing, that is the best way to handle some subjects. Your H can make out of it whatever he choses and it may even cause a tiny bit of mystery by giving that type of answer. I don't see too many wedding pitures out after a couple has been married a while, anyway.

In fact, you may want to make some other changes in the bedroom to give it a different look. So, when or if your H should ask about any of it.....the same answer would hold......"time for changes to be made". Not knowing him, I certainly don't know if he would or wouldn't, but a lot of men would not even notice!

Do what makes you feel better. You might want to re-arrange furniture or buy some throw pillow or new curtains to spruce the entire house up a bit. Just enough to give it a different look. It doesn't take a lot of money to get a few different things to make us feel better. Changing things around on the walls makes the rooms look different. I bought new lamp shades and it gave my room a completely different look.

It is important to think about you and to focus on "you".....not him. That is not being selfish, even though it may sound like it is. It is survival and it is self-improvement. You can't improved yourself when you are always wondering what "he" is going to think or what type message you are sending him. For now, think about you and how you can pick yourself up.

Take care,
Sandi

I agree with Sandi. The first thing I did post-Bomb was de-WAW the house. Pictures gone. She had bought me a shirt while she was on her trip -- the one she decided to divorce me on -- and I left that on her dresser, along with a wallet she gave me at the same time, etc. If I'm on my own, I'm on my own, thank you -- I can get my own pictures, wallets, and shirts just fine.

So I'd rearrange, just as Sandi says. It sounds trivial, but it was important for me -- it made me feel like I had SOME power in this situation.

Thank you both. I agree - make the changes I need to for ME and I definitely remove the photos and rearrange things too. That's always fun. Something to give me a lift and feel like I'm in control.

I am worrying way too much about what he'll think. Good observation, Sandi. It's so hard not to obsess! I continue to read DR and will start my solution-based journal shortly.

Found out today OW won't be kept on to work with my H at his job for the summer. Seems like a good sign because they won't be able to hang out as much. Won't change the cell phone calls/texts (wish he'd hurry up and get off my plan and I wouldn't look at the activity). But maybe a step in the right direction that they won't see each other as much.

H called my cell today but I didn't feel like talking. Guess I felt like I needed to pump myself up first for the cheerful, loving GAL attitude that I'm just not feeling at the moment!! It's hard to put on the happy face at a moment's notice.

H called to see if I'd be home tonight. Came by but only to call our cell phone carrier to separate the bill. Took FOREVER and I made small talk and did a good job of not being too interested, no ILYs, seeming detached, etc.

But what was odd was the kids were home and in the basement. He didn't go down to say hi or talk. In fact, H hasn't talked to them since the first week he left. He's offered no explanation to them (D15, S17) for what's going on.

I went down afterwards and said H must be having a really hard time and be very confused to not talk to them, and just to pray that he can work through his issues and get to a better place. Tried to assure them this has nothing to do with them, and everything to do with how H is coping.

It really broke my heart that he didn't go talk to them. But I didn't say anything to H because I didn't want to seem controlling or pushing him or guilt tripping him.

Isn't that odd or is this typical with a MLC or WAH?

Not to dash your hopes, but don't get to excited about them not working together. If they are hot and heavy for each other....it will have to run its course until the excitement fades out.

Let me try to explain something about a statement you made about loving GAL and putting on a happy face. Not sure exactly what you mean by "lovingly" GAL, maybe you can expound a bit more on that. GAL is for you to become more interesting b/c you are out of that house getting involved with people, making new friends, finding hobbies you enjoy, just plain having fun again. It also shows your H that you are not sitting at home pinning away for him. The point is for you to grow as a person and become more well rounded and interested.......plus it has a way of getting his attention if you are consistent. I don't know what you mean by lovingly. You don't want to get a life that would be centered around anything vindictive or something of that nature b/c you would only be hurting yourself. But, this is very important.......GAL is not to be center around him....in case that was what you meant by "lovingly". Do things to make yourself feel good. As you said, you need to get pumped up. Get a manicure or do something you don't usually do that would be fun.

As far as putting on a happy face, the point there is to show him that you are doing just fine.......not that you are happy with the stitch! You must be careful not to come across as "fake" b/c he knows you well and will see through that and it will turn him off....big time. So, you are "happy" in who you are and that you have decided that you will be fine with or without him b/c you are going to have a life!! That is why you must do things to keep a positive mental attitude about YOU........YOU.......YOU. Not obsessing about him or the M, but you. You have to be sold on yourself and you have to be like it was said before......act as if you are the greatest woman on earth and any man would be a fool to let you slip through his fingers. If you believe that, then you just might sell him on that belief, also. That is why we preach over and over that all of this must be for you and for the rest of your life......IT IS NOT A GIMMICK TO WIN BACK YOUR HUSBAND! If you think that and act that.....it will not last. So many people come back after the S returned home and they thought everything was fine. Guess what they say? They stopped with the changes. You know why? B/c it wasn't for them and it wasn't for the rest of their life. They did it only to win their spouse back. So.....once again, they find themselves back here.

The sooner you drop the rope and stop obsessing over him and OW, the better off you will be and the sooner the excitement of the A will wear off and he will start noticing what he left at home. But, you must convince yourself, I can't do it for you.....okay?

Take care,
Sandi

Ouch! You are so right - any changes or GAL that focuses on what H would like to see are superficial and won't last. Gotta GAL for me, and to be a positive role model for my kiddos.

My mantra today - dropping the rope! Thx. On that note, heading to the Y.

What Sandi said...please stop the obsessing.

And thank GOD he'll be off the phone bill. Decrease the interactions until you are more content and centered, do some "exercises" about turning it over to God, and letting GOD Keep it too...don't take it back from Him.

This is hard for you to "get" but honestly, you must. This is NOT ABOUT HIM...IT IS NOT ABOUT OW....IT IS ALL ABOUT YOU AND GOD & YOU AND GAL AND YOUR KIDS AND THEIR R'S WITH GOD, AND YOU GAL....

GAL is not about him at ALL....none of this is about your h anymore....it is ALL about you and your life and how you choose to live it. Be the author of your life. If your life were a book, who is writing yours? How is it going? How will the next chapter(s) go? Life is short, tomorrow is promised to no one. Don't let someone else write YOUR life's book. They won't write it for you...it'll be left blank while they stumble through their own. BE THE AUTHOR OF YOUR LIFE AND WRITE IT THE WAY YOU WANT IT TO BE AND GO... for now, there is a chance he'll never come back and therefore the sooner you move on the better. BUT there is also the chance that he might come back but guess what? YOUR behavioral choices are the same either way b/c the only possible likely way to "win" him back IF that is what's right for you, is by acting as if he is NOT coming back and you have to GAL so you can bring something to the table other than your neediness....make sense?

You are stronger than you know.

(( j ))

Colorado Girl~ wrote:

Quote:

will start my solution-based journal shortly.

Very good idea.
I had one and it helps to give you a visual of your progress.
And yes the changes have to be for you and for real.
If / when he decides to return /reconcile?
You will need to be that New and Improved Woman. Reconciling is no walk in the park.

You are getting fabulous advice here.
I also love that you are open to all the advice.
Being open will help get results.
I am "terrible" at explaining how to get from point a to z ...
but these ladies know their stuff.

When I started my journal and would put where I wanted to be in a month or a week?
I thought I was better off hoping for Miracles...
he would never say he loved me ,,,
he would never kiss me again....
he would never drop the OW
stop dreaming.... be realistic.
Wrong~!~
as things started to turn around and I became stronger ?
My goals were reached and I would even put the word Miracle in my thread title.

Anyway ,,,
take care and keep posting.
I told you the people here were fabulous.

God bless,
Ali

Thank you all so much for the encouragement. It is helping me get my head straight. It can't be about H anymore... that's giving him control, and I really don't want to be needy or weak. I know I am a strong woman and darn cute! and I'm going to be just fine.

Really enjoyed the paragraph, J, about being the author of my life and how do I want to write the next chapter. I AM in control of how that chapter goes, aren't I, and I'm determined now! I will take back my life, to the tune of Aretha's R-E-S-P-E-C-T or maybe the ROCKY soundtrack?!, and be the best me I can be.

So, today was a GOOD day. I ran at the Y. I worked hard all day and didn't obsess or check my cell phone, etc. Drove home in a blizzard (Colorado, y'know!) but home safe and working on my journal now. Tomorrow I will make it another good day! Thx again, to all.

Good job!

And I don't care how gimmicky it is, or whatever, but my IPOD became my best friend in all this. I had a playlist of forgiveness exercises to calm me down (kids cannot hear it!!) before a call or contact (or nightmare), also The Power of Now read by the author --almost hypnotic so don't listen while driving....and RESPECT was ON MY "MOVING ON GAL" playlist, I swear! So is "I'm leaving you", A lot of Kelly Clarkson, "I will Survive" Linda Ronstadt (the HAPPY SONGS of hers)....and all the cliched ones that helped us in high school and college get back in touch with the woman within.

Also used it for physical exercise and hey, do what works.

(( j ))

I think I'll work up a MOVING ON GAL mix of my own and include some of those. Great thought!

Had another good day. If I can keep stringing these together, I might be on to something! Kids are home tonight. No conversation about H. Just a nice, normal evening!

H took a little more cash than expected for the week, but I prayed about it and decided it wasn't worth making the call or text. I think it's best at this point to not contact H and keep giving him his space. Once he moves his check out of our joint account next week, it should be a non-issue anyway.

Back slid tonight I think... appears H came by the house while I was at work. Just a few things out of place, dress shoes missing and used the iron. H hates to dress up so, of course, my mind goes rt away to OW - hot date?

I haven't brought it up because if I'm GAL and not working on the R, then I wouldn't care what he's doing tonight, right? Think I need to stay busy and not worry about what it could mean b/c it probably means nothing. I'm just owning up to the fact that my mind starting going and I need to just knock it off. I'm going to my sis' to watch a chick flick which should help distract me.

During a future talk with H, maybe we need to talk about boundaries for stopping by, but really, I want him back home period so it probably shouldn't matter when he comes by.

You will have some backslides....unless you are perfect and if so then we want you to write the book!

The main obstacle to overcome is being obsessed with every thing he does and says and if it has a connection with the OW. If you can learn to let that run off your back......then you are a winner! No doubt about that. But, sweetie, it is HARD! However, I do not believe it is impossible. It takes a lot of hard determination to not allow yourself to have that pity-party and start evaluating every word and deed. Don't start playing the question & wondering games or it will drive you insane.

The best way to overcome this is by you getting more and more involved in your own GAL. That means getting spruced up yourself, sweetie! Get the heck out of that house! Doll up and go somewhere. You have go to feel like a million bucks while going through this crap with him. If you don't think you are worth a million bucks....then how will you make him believe it? So, there is your starting place. To take a chance at getting clobbered here (as if I never have...lol) you almost have to be to the point of thinking you are being selfish. We women are givers to the point that we start letting ourselves go b/c we are giving to our kids and our H. So, now it is your turn. As somebody has said......it no longer is about him or the OW....it is all about YOU now!! So, get out there baby and get moving in a life that you can enjoy. That doesn't mean to ignore your children and wonder if child protective services will come get them.....don't go into a MLC here....lol. But, I think you know what I am saying. Stop staying in that house so much, and arrange to have your free time for yourself. May feel very strange at first, but your deserve it and actually, it is a must at this point in your life.

Take good care,
Sandi

what sandi said!!

((( j )))

Great advice about staying out the house. Too much time to think when I'm alone. Ran this morning to my new iPod mix - awesome! It ends with Bon Jovi's "It's My Life"!!

? about bills - got a call from my BF who's H works with my H. H took advance on next check, which is supposed to be the 1st one going to his new ckg acct for his portion of the bills, cc pymts, etc. BF was upset with his behavior, but I think I did a good job not obsessing.. his $, his choices.

Told BF all I can do is work on being the best me possible, and maybe he'll decide he'd like to be friends or more sometime later. Until then, can't worry about what he's spending $ on (but what is he spending $ on?!, haha!) or who he's with. Just take care of myself.

But, here's the ?, if he doesn't follow thru on paying the bills as we separated them 2 wks ago, I don't think there's anything legally to do - we'd both still be responsible for the debt incurred up until a D, right? I think I can and should close any accounts I can now. But not much else to do, right?

see a L and don't freak out about doing it. Just see what your options are, you don't HAVE to DO anything but pay for an hour, or less...but dang, know your options.

Knowlege is power and it's super important you protect yourself now. ASAP really.

Keep up the good work!!
(( j ))

I agree. You must protect yourself. Again, it may feel strangly selfish, but it is a must! You don't know what he may do and unfortunately, you can't trust him at this point.

BTW, good job in what you told BF.

Sandi

It does feel selfish, but knowledge is power... I'll try to find a L asap. Thx.

I had a super good day today! I was going to go ski, but decided to take care of some personal biz instead. Texted H re: some cabin stuff since he's still up at our family cabin, and think I sounded cheerful but detached. He responded favorable and will take care of the water meter stuff. I went to big D (Denver) to watch my S17 win their basketball tourney, and then the strangest thing happened...

I had apologized to my XH#1 yesterday b/c I have realized during this current S how much my actions during my first M hurt my XH. I just wanted him to know how sorry I was for hurting him. He was really cool about it yesterday, and today he and his W invited me to dinner and dessert tonight after the games. They were so gracious, and we celebrated my D16's 16th bday together.

I think it's a great example of how couples that D can bury the hatchet and rise above it all. I feel like I'm really growing as a person through this S. Mending fences and offering apologies where I need to. The main person I want to apologize to and work on a better future with is my H, but until he's ready to talk to me about any of that, I see this an an opportunity to get myself straight and strengthen relationships. My kids seemed really happy to have me over at XH's and that we could celebrate without worrying about who's night it was or who's year it was to have the BD. Pretty incredible IMHO.

I just wanted to say that I have gained a lot by reading this thread. I am very new to a similar situation and don't know where to even start. I will certainly follow this thread.

It is good when D people can bury the hatchet, but it usually takes some time before that happens. Usually there are some hurt and raw feelings for a while. But, maybe in time. When children are involved, it sure makes it better. For a time though, it probably will not be easy street. However, if the people involved want to badly enough, they can get through it without trying to tear each others throats out.

Glad you had a good day and hope you have several more. It helps us get through those rough bumps in the road.

Take care,
Sandi

Quick update: Things are going well. No contact from H since texts re: cabin on Sunday and I'm doing okay with that. Placing my faith in God to take care of me and watch over H. My D16's bday was Mon. Don't think H contacted her, which is sad, but she didn't mention it so I didn't either. I think he probably forgot, stress? FIL and SIL are stopping by tonight with a gift. Will be cheerful, demonstrating I'm doing fine and GAL. Also looking for a C but it's hard to get anyone to call me back. Think I'm doing all right though.

The amends was a spiritual LEAP for you and Bless you for doing it. Doesn't matter about h or what he's thinking/doing blah blah blah YOU just made God smile and your son got the best B-day gift ever, and YOU GREW!!!

THAT'S A WIN WIN...and the "art" of DBing is seeing these life lessons as victories even if our "other battle" isn't won, the "war within" is won...make sense? The irony of course is that the more amends you make (real ones, not the kind you should not be making but the ones God would want) the better woman you become and ALL your R's improve in some way...sometimes even all the way...

Wacky but true. Good for you.

((( j )))

Thx! I really do feel good about making amends where I need to, and it's not centered about H - just me trying to be better.

FIL and and SIL just left. We had a great talk about everything BUT the H - haha! I was so glad to have them over, and our R is definitely improving. It's more honest and real than ever before. FIL brought up H several times but I didn't react with sadness or fear - really FEEL like I can handle this, thanks to lots of prayer, and I think that's coming through. The kids seemed happy to have a little connection to their stepdad too. I can't imagine how that is to have him leave suddenly and not stay in touch, but it was nice they came over to celebrate the b-day and just reconnect.

Of course, part of me hopes he'll tell H that I seem to be doing very well, have dropped the 10 lbs I needed to lose anyway and look marvelous, but that isn't what really matters. I'm improving the R with FIL and SIL and they are really decent people that deserve my respect and love. Period.

Hi
Just read your thread, I'm new here myself so the answers you received are helpful to me too.

Well, my good days were bound to come to an end I suppose.

Went to BF and her H's house today. He works with my H. Everyone at the shop feels like something's going on with the OW and H. Making everyone uncomfortable with their flirting. Both are off work for a long wknd. One of the guys asked OW what she thought she was doing, and didn't mince words - said it's wrong of her to hang out so much with a married guy. Her response was "I'm confused". Think there's definitely something going on - either EA or PA.

I know in my head that I need to stay positive and focus on myself - period. Not what they are doing, not what is going to happen financially if H doens't take care of his portion of the bills starting tmrw, and not what he's doing with OW for 5 days...

But I'm sad. And I'm finding it hard to be patient and faithful tonight. Hopefully better tmrw.

Am going to take tennis lessons and sign up for a 5k run. Trying to stay busy but although I knew there was probably an A going on, it's hitting me hard tonight.

Keep your chin up! I can only imagine the hurt that you are feeling, but keep in mind that the self pity will only bring you further down. Focus on yourself and what will make YOU happy. Get training for that 5K and try to set an attainable time goal. Hit those tennis lessons and burn off that anxiety and clear those thoughts. I know it doesn't feel like it, but there is a lot out there to keep you going. I have to remind myself of this constantly every day.

I am new to all of this myself, but it looks like you are doing the right things to get through this. You WILL come out of this stronger no matter what the outcome is with the M. Remember that!

It's alway amazing to me how a night of sleep can make things seem better in the AM. Off the pity party, thanks Making_It, and back to positive thoughts.

Learned today that H found a room to rent and will be leaving the family cabin. See this as a good thing - cabin free for the rest of the family to retreat to. Cheaper than an apt so more likely he'll follow through on paying his bills. No lease so if things turn around, it'd be easier for him to move back home.

First day that H's paycheck wasn't in the account (b/c he moved it away somewhere). I thought I handled it well.. just a short text acknowledging the change and if nothing was pending I'd cancel his debit card, etc. He wrote back "yeah", whatever that means... but I think I'm back to doing a good job of being friendly but unemotional. I have to protect myself and the kids, but I don't have to be a witch about it. Just friendly and factual.

What I'd give for H to have a real conversation... ask how I am, talk about the kids or life or anything... 8 days since last face-to-face and it will be much longer I suspect. That's the hardest part, I think... once you start practicing the GAL, "what if", etc. you can't help but hope for quick results. And they aren't coming, and probably won't anytime soon. That part stinks. I want my quick fix! :-)

Good day. Saw my C for the 1st time. After giving my HX, I thought wow, what a sad situation! Haha! But it was good - she gave me some breathing exercises, ideas to stop obsessing when I spiral out of control that way. Still anxious about H and what it means that he got a room to rent. But can't control that. Just me. C suggested possible depression, anti-depr rx? We'll see how it goes. Have to remember to eat. Overall, good day! Plan to run or ski tmrw. Need some exercise, and it makes me feel so much better.

Journaling...

Happy Easter! Even though I didn't hear from H, and seems it will be a long while before I do, I focused on the kids and being with my family. Sometimes, and usually mid-afternoon, I let negative thoughts creep in... like what H's doing and why he doesn't contact me or the kids and what that means... Wonder if he's "in love"..? Futurizing, I know... and I can't do anything about those factors.

But mostly, I'm doing a pretty good job keeping my focus on what I can control - that's me, and me alone. Spending time with family today was nice, and I made some banana bread and spaghetti sauce. I'd love to have a B&B someday so I like to try different bread recipes, etc.

Didn't run this weekend, so will try to do that tmrw. Always helps my PMA. Wishing for a good week, and praying for patience!

Just b/c he doesn't call, doesn't mean much about what he's doing or thinking. Don't mind read. But It does mean you don't have a h available to you and that sucks. Your needs are not being met, oh YEAH...you have them too.

So back to YOU and the kids...how are you all doing? Aside from him? How about the GAL program?

Keep on keeping on...

(( j ))

Thanks for pointing that out. I shouldn't try to mind read, and yes, it does suck! But that's life sometimes and that which doesn't kill ya...

The kids and I are doing pretty well, thanks for asking! I've been exercising regularly. Talking with my support system as needed, but quite a bit less than I needed to in the first couple weeks. The kids haven't wanted to talk much about H leaving and the lack of contact... I ask occasionally if they're OK, but mostly we're just moving on with life. Basketball games and homework in the evenings, making lunches in the AM and just trying to stay committed to our routines. I'm not holed up in my bedroom at night anymore, talking with friends/sisters, and have been journaling and even starting a novel. It's a romance novel though that my BF gave me. I think maybe I should try a mystery, John Grisham or something. The book idea came from my C - she asked me what was something I do that causes me to lose track of time. A fictional novel was my first response, and I haven't read a good book for probably 2 yrs. So, that was a great recommendation and I'm enjoying the time.

One thing my H and I did in the summer was mountain bike. I've always struggled with being in good enough shape to pedal uphill on the trails (downhill is SO much easier $\:\)$ ). I'm working on my running and biking, and have no expectations that H will ride with me this summer. But if I'm in good shape I'll have more fun when I go with friends, and feel better wearing shorts, so it's all good!

Will be going for that pedicure soon - it's almost sandal weather around here once the snow melts.

That was perfect question because it reminds me of what's going well, what I can and have been able to control, and staying focused on all of that gives me the PMA I need and DESERVE!

I got a text from H today that he was going to get the rest of his stuff from the house. Came home tonight and it's so strange... he found a place to stay, so it makes since he'd take his clothes, etc. but that doesn't really prepare you to come home and find the entire clothes rod empty except hangers, books and glasses, papers missing. It's like the Grinch visited while I was at work.

I can't help feeling like we just grew further apart. I know detaching is the only hope I have to get him back, but this is incredibly HARD! I want to beg and plead with him to love me again, to give us another chance and to not leave me.

But I can't control any of that, and I'm not going to let him see how much I'm hurting. I continue to pray for strength, for patience, and for God to work in H's life. I sent a quick text tonight to see if he was still taking a TV, and he wrote back he'd get it later. Said have a good night, and he said "u too". I don't understand how he can go from being my partner and best friend to such a cold man seemingly overnight.

I miss him so much.

The kids aren't home tonight which is good. I'll be stronger tomorrow. I don't even know what to say now since he's still not talking to them. Before I told them he went to the cabin to think, and he didn't think he could come home right now. I guess that's still the sitch except he's staying with a friend instead of the cabin, but having his clothes, etc. moved out makes it seem so much more real.

I guess there's a ? for the board - any suggestions on what to say to teenagers when their stepdad won't communicate. Just that we are still having some problems and it has nothing to do with them...?

journaling..

as I suspected, I feel better today. Just gotta keep on going... enuf with the self-pity and poor me attitude. Explained to my D tonight that stepdad found room to rent, and moved more things out. She's very angry. His been unresponsive to her text msgs. I noticed he took his wall of ski photos, etc. but left anything with me or the kids in the photos. What message is he trying to send? I cleared the rest off before the kids came home so they wouldn't see that.

FIL has been emailing with me but staying fairly neutral. Understands H needed a change but sad that it's impacted so many.

So my question is, do I let FIL I'm not giving up, just giving H his space.. and getting on with my life; or do I need to convey that we're moving on and not talk about how I still love H and hope he can work thru his stuff. I suspect it's the first theory, but any input would be appreciated.

thx.

Saw my C today. She thinks I'm very strong, like a rock. I don't feel that way inside, especially when something happens like Wed with H moving his things out. But I do agree I'm getting stronger. Less pitiful and just trying to make the most of each day. Home alone this wknd but will try to stay busy. No plans tonight but pretty busy the rest of the weekend.

I'm feeling more patient these days... know H has to work thru his stuff on his own. Whether it's an A or not, he's not communicating with me and won't let me in. So, I move on, take care of myself and the kiddos. Hope H will talk more later and we'll see where it goes. I continue wearing my ring, will remain faithful to my H and just carry on.

My C's advice today in terms of GAL was to accept whatever invitations I receive to do things. Said yes to everything unless there's a conflict, and see where the activities take me. Good advice I think.

Emails from FIL last night. Seems to have some insight into's H's changes. Wants to get together but not say too much. I think I'm open to that, and will try to just listen without getting defensive as much as I can. If he'll share more of where H is in his journey, that'd be good. Getting a clear sense that part of it is a need for independence. Felt controlled at home and needs to just do what he wants when he wants. I responded to FIL that I know he's independent and needs this space, and I'm giving it to him. Just moving ahead and GAL.

I dropped off some things at H's work today. Was hoping to see him to practice my cheerful attitude, etc. and thought I looked pretty darn good but he was busy with customers. Left some mail with a buddy, and left. He texted a little later "thanks'. Couldn't use fewer words to respond, but used less letters with "sure". Haha! It's so hard to demonstrate that I'm doing well, which I really think I am, when we're separated. I have so little interaction with him and I can't just fabricate reasons to contact him.

Guess I just have to remain positive and patient. But this is not easy!!

Hi mtn,

Thanks for stopping by my thread. I have been following your posts. I feel like we are in some of the same places with the things we are doing in our situations. It sounds like you are doing good trying to keep positive so keep that up. I know its not easy to do. And I understand what you mean about not being able to show any positive changes you are making bc of being separated, but I find it helpful to remember that these changes I am making are for me too and to look at how I have felt good/better bc of them.

How do you find it talking about the situation with FIL? Do you find it helpful at all? My MIL calls every week to 'check' on me, I guess she's trying to be supportive but I feel like she just reports back to H saying things like I'm 'better now'(as if!!) She doesn't see things the same way as me and I feel like her advice is what got H to move out completely in the first place as she kept telling him why is he still there(in the house) he's making it worse for me, etc.

Try to stay busy with your GAL activities and stay positive!

Thx Hope.

Our situations do seem similar. It's very hard to demonstrate the changes with the separation, but you're right; we have to make the changes for ourselves. If they take notice and it draws them towards us, that's awesome. But it can't be the motive.

I find it helpful to talk with FIL, but I know that anything I say will probably get back to H. FIL told H that I've never once said anything negative, and I've been very supportive of H's need for space. So, to answer your question, I guess by maintaining this line of communication in a pretty vague manner, it's getting back to H that I'm making changes and doing alright.

For your MIL, she probably is reporting back. But if you can view it as another way to communicate to H that you're being respectful of his need for space and loving him by doing that even though it's not what you want, then I'd keep it up.

Dear Mtn,

Communication with the inlaws can be tricky but you have only bad alternatives. If they reach out and you close them off...well, good luck with that approach. You'll be closing the door and you don't want to do that b/c it's rude and punitive looking. If these are their grandchildren, don't put them in a worse position than they are already in. Reassure them and your kids.

Say that you'll never interfere with their R's with the kids and want to make sure they keep those lines of communications open, as if you are "getting" that you might not be M, but that they will always be in the kids' lives. This keeps that possibility open for the h as well AND btw, it is important and good for your kids to know they are not losing everyone associated with h. Don't forget the kids!
I think it IS reasonable to mention your concern about the kids, to the inlaws IF IT'S appropriate or applicable. They care about them too, I assume.

LISTEN WELL and don't treat them like spies, but don't think they'll "agree with you", or discuss how "wrong" their own adult children are. They are his parents AND maybe they think he's got a point?? BUT for sure, they want him to be happy and he isn't happy now.

I did not want to write or say anything that would come back to me and haunt me later if we DID reconcile, or if we went to div court....don't screw yourself mouthing off or begging or whining too much OR making him the bad guy. That will NOT WORK...no parent will come in and "straighten their own kid" out (UNLESS THEY KNOW HE'S DONE WRONG--NOT YOUR JOB TO INFORM THEM-- AND IF THEY KNOW THAT HE'S MESSED UP, THEY'VE ALREADY SAID SOMETHING TO HIM THAT YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT, IF THEY'RE THE TYPE. IF THEY ARE NOT THE TYPE TO SAY ANYTHING--"PEACE AT ALL COSTS"--OR "COWARDS"--"CHEATERS" THEMSELVES, ETC--THEN IT'S POINTLESS TO EXPECT THEM TO SAY ANYTHING TO HIM -AND YOU'RE FIGHTING A LOSING BATTLE ASKING...

That's so important, I put it all in caps. My ex sil came to me to complain about my brother (they fought a lot). No cheating or abuse or drinking too much, just both fighting & wanting the other to change. She constantly wanted me to somehow say something that would make my brother totally change his personality...yeah, no thanks.

In my sitch, I said something to my inlaws like I'd always support the kids staying in touch with them and visiting them/his family, and as for my feelings, I said something to the effect of "Though I'll always love your son, things are not looking up for us at this point..." and I followed that with something positive about how kind they treated me over the years, thanking them for that, and left it at that.

(( j ))

Thanks for the post. I am going for a short hike with FIL tmrw. I'll take your advice re: kids and supporting their R with inlaws and not dwell on H and I or looking for support. Hope to demonstrate I'm doing well with no self pity or looking for FIL to take sides.

It's been three weeks since I've seen H or talked face to face other than a few texts. Maybe this isn't unusual but do I just keep giving him space or at some point, do I need to call to talk or try to get together? It seems like the more time that goes by, the less connected he probably feels to me.

Maybe I'm just having a tough day, but it's hard to keep the faith when there's NO contact at all!?!

Thoughts, anyone?

MD, I don't think I've commented on your thread but I have been following.

Others may have different advice, but in my sitch I didn't talk to my xBF after I put him out of the house for a month. We did exchange emails about money issues but that's it. Even after he started wanting to come by the house and eventually ask for another chance I didn't see him face to face or talk to him for another month. Granted things moved rather quickly for me in DB terms, but I don't think it's anything to be alarmed over.

Thx Pearl. I guess everyone's timeline is different, but good to know a month or more isn't unusual.

I went for a hike with FIL tonight. Didn't discuss H or the R at all. Figured if he brought it up that would be fine, but he didn't other to ask if I was doing okay which I said I was. Good small talk and stories... I think I indicated I'm doing all right, which I was until I got on the computer tonight.

Came home and the OW (all of 21) had changed her facebook page to note she was no longer single and 'in a relationship', and her 'love' was making her a dinner tonight.

Of course, no real evidence that she and H are involved other than all the text and cell ph calls. Praying it's another guy she's interested in now. But if it is my H, it breaks my heart.

Yes, I shouldn't be obsessing about it, but OW and I are 'friends' on facebook, so it was right there to see. I'm trying to visualize a big stop sign like C has suggested... I can't control whatever is or isn't going on. But H was telling me he loved me less than 2 months ago. Could their R really be progressing that quickly... I hope not, but again, out of my control.

Sorry for the venting, but gotta get this out. I feel so confused and helpless! I haven't talked to H in 3 weeks, other than a few text messages about bills, etc. I've done a great job of really giving H the space he wanted but now it feels like I've completely lost control of the sitch and lost him. I'm praying hard but still worrying and obsessing, so I'm really not letting it go.

Hard stuff.

Don't apologize for venting. That's what this place is for. Get it out here so it doesn't come out somewhere else.

Well, I guess the obvious solution is to un-friend the OW! Yes, snooping can get you stuck in an obsessive pit of despair. You need to decide if you want/need definitive proof of an EA/PA. If not, then get her off your FB immediately.

Worrying and obsessing isn't doing you any good. You cannot control anything other than yourself. I know, easier said than done. Do practice the thought stopping. Throw yourself into GAL activities. What are yours?

I don't think I need definite evidence of an A. I just got her off my FB - thanks for the suggestion.

FIL sent an email overnight. Said he's afraid I don't fully realize how much H has gone off the deep end, and has 'turned the corner'. Strong hints that H has become involved with OW I believe. Offered to talk more about that if I need to. Also a strong suggestion that if I need to talk to H or have him talk to the kids, this is the time.

Not sure why he put it that way. I'm supposed to be giving him his space. Is he indicating if I want him back, I better contact him? But if the FB and emails are trying to tell me H is involved, then this isn't the time to make contact - right??

GAL activities -

jogging
spending time with friends
reading
watching son play basketball

Got a call from one of the credit card companies tonight. Bill hasn't been paid by H and we've always been so timely, etc. He's the one that wanted to separate bills and get his own account. Yet I'm not really surprised because of the way he's been blowing through money before we separated accounts. So, I tried to get them to call H on his cell, since we're separated, but they wouldn't do that and just asked me to speak to him.

Left a text and VMX from H re: that bill and another one I see now he hasn't paid. No response so far.

I'm sure this situation will get worse before it gets better. Perhaps this will be a reality check for H that the bills still have to be paid and he can't just blow his paycheck on whatever... But then again, maybe not!

I've been feeling pretty angry today, even before the call from the CC co. Angry that he'd just up and leave. It's like he went out for cigarettes and never came back. Angry he won't face up to his responsibilities. Not even me - forget about that for the moment. Responsibility to speak to the kids he helped raise since they were 7 and 8 yrs old, and to be honest. Angry that it's all about him. Angry because even though I contributed to our sitch, it wasn't reason enough to walk away. He's being a coward.

I continue to pray for patience. But today I just have been mad.

I'll remind you of something that City Girl said...'most spouses that walk away from a marriage tend to treat the spouse they left behind like crap. They are rude, selfish, demanding and cold. They think the sun and moon and stars revolve around them and each whim or desire they have. Its all part of the anatomy of a walk away spouse.'

Originally Posted By: antlers

'most spouses that walk away from a marriage tend to treat the spouse they left behind like crap. They are rude, selfish, demanding and cold. They think the sun and moon and stars revolve around them and each whim or desire they have. Its all part of the anatomy of a walk away spouse.'

Man is that the truth! It was as if the person that I had known for 15 yrs changed overnight,,,,, literally.

That's exactly how I feel! Like I'm being treated like crap.

We [/b] ALL [b] deserve better.

I'm feeling much more powerful this week. I realize that I'm in control of myself and I'm going to choose to be happy. Acting happy makes me happy and I'm feeling pretty good! Exercise helps, and venting to my BF did but not so much right now... She's getting mad at H for his actions and I just don't think it's healthy for him or for her. Better to just move on and let him do his thing. Hopefully he'll work thru his stuff, and the OW will fade away, but I can't control when or if that happens.

Two new GAL activities I'm going to check into are a swing or hip hop class, and maybe a book club. My C suggested that GAL activities should be just for me, and should involve other people. Better than picking up an activity that is solo - alone time is not for the best right now. So those two ideas seem to fit the bill! We'll see how it goes.

Hey, good for you! The dance class and the book club sound great! I joined a book club a few years ago.. we ended up just sitting around and drinking wine and never discussing the books, lol! But it was fun!

I am glad you are feeling good.. yay!

That's the kind of book club I'd like! Little vino, little conversation... I don't know unless I put myself out there, right?

Book clubs rock! Seriously, and so does theater if you are up for auditioning or doing crew work. It's VERY absorbing so you cannot obsess about anything other than the show...

Sucks about OW...but the A's, IF it is one, have to run their stupid course and the average is about 6 months but can be from 3 to 18 and SOME result in M...a 21 y/o? No, not a lasting R...not in mho at least. What's he got in common with her? Never mind, don't go there. But know that after the physical stuff, most people like to have conversations....know what I mean? That's why I honestly never thought about boy toys or understood middle aged women having much younger men like the "cougars".... (Except for when I get an Academy Award, if I were single, THEN I'd like a handsome 25 y/o for the evening...you know, to pose on the red carpet with, etc....) Seriously, it strikes me as a bit pathetic when I see it. My oldest brother dated a 24 y/o woman after he left his w (my sil, who was GREAT and I am still close to her and we still vacation together, etc) but he said "she's 24" twice and I said, "bro, you already told me that and I guess you want my reaction...but it is not a good reaction so don't push it." But he did! HE insisted I and my sisters tell him what we thought of him dating someone so much younger and ALL of us, without "consulting each other" had the same response...like "how insecure of him" and "how pathetic it looked" etc. Oh, she broke up with him too. Anyhow....she didn't know who George Harrison was, so...see ya! And he did remarry, a woman HIS age...and his ex w, my wonderful sil, remarried too. A GREAT GUY who makes her happy! Happier than my brother EVER did. Yeah, the irony of it all...

So, you KNOW what to do. Where the head goes, the heart will follow. I don't know what your fil means exactly. That was confusing to me. But I am sure you need to deal with your money issues NOW....do you have a L yet? Didn't we say this before?

Seeing a L does not MAKE you file. It empowers you with knowledge so you'll know how vulnerable you really are, or aren't.

See a L. ASAP. And did you get a good c? If not, (or if you can afford both) then call for a DB coach. I found them VERY helpful and I did it all. Worked out, GAL,
had a good t, took AD's etc AND had a DB coach but if I could only do ONE thing...it'd be the coaching...not to take anything away from the rest, but it was very specific for me and so helpful. Plus the pkg ended up costing what regular t costs around here anyhow. Maybe even a tad less. So, there's that.
And is there something you can spend your money on that is more important? It's like getting your heart treated...literally and figuratively.
(( j ))

PS so you know, I like posting to you. You are hurting a great deal and have suffered a lousy blow. Of the LBSers, a few sort of "deserve it" but most played a role in the demise of their m. IF they ever get to that component, it's crucial in how well they do in their lives afterwards. If they stay in denial and place themselves in the "I'm an LBSer for NO reason and WAS left me FOR NO REASON"...it means they'll never feel in control of anything b/c after all, if they were perfect and without flaws AND YET were left behind...the world really sucks and they'll never take a risk again. But if we own our roles, then we can change ourselves and go forward in or out of the R and know that we are different now, and awake....and ultimately, in the LONG RUN...happier for it. So when I see how you cope, how you DO things differently b/c you want to be happy, how you CHANGE the way you THINK and feel with your head and heart both involved, and BRAVELY LOOK WITHIN AND FACE THE WORLD AS IT IS...then I think to myself, "now there goes a woman only a fool would leave."

(( j ))

Hi everyone. I'm not sure if I am doing this correctly or whether I should be posting my own thread but I am so anxious to get some feedback. Its long, so please bear with me.

I'm 36, H iS 45. H seems to have all the symptoms of classic MLC - new flashy vehicle, new clothes, new diet, weight loss. Intuition and H's strange behaviour sent me snooping. Found some graphic e-mails a few months ago which would strongly suggest H involved in affair. I immediately confronted H who claimed that it was harmless. H was outraged that I invaded his privacy and said it was a gamechanger.

Since my discovery H started coming home later and later, out constantly at weekends and returning in a.m. Things he never did before. Started to only state he was "going out" but gave no details. Would try to reach H on phone and calls ignored even at midnight. This only made me angrier because he did not even check to see whether there was an emergency.

When I pressed him to discuss the issue he said I was always controlling, that ours had been a sexually and emotionally starved relationship for most of its life (together 13 years)and that he had had enough. He was unsure what he wanted and begged for time to consider his options without my constant questions. He knew that he definitely did not want counselling.

I found it hard to keep my cool especially when he was coming and going at all hours and not saying who he was with or where he was going. I told him that he would have to decide whether he was married or single and that I would not tolerate this kind of behaviour. I constantly began pressing him for an answer when he clearly had none. He said I was "stressing him out" and kept begging for space. I could not stop this behaviour although he told me it was driving him away. I was so angry, hurt, needed answers.....so I lectured, cried, begged, texted, emailed, snooped some more. I knew it was counter productive but just could not stop.

Anyhow, four days ago he said he didin't feel the same anymore and that he didn't think we could regain our footing.That he had felt too many years of disatisfaction and realised that life was slipping away and that he is getting older. Held out no hope for change.

I did not act gracefully and exploded in anger which was wrong since he was finally giving me an answer. We moved into a new home late last year around the time this OW thing seemed to have been in its infancy. I am very angry at the thought that he allowed us to make this costly step when he should have known he was not happy. Especially with the economy the way it is now. Asked point blank if he wanted a D and he said had laid out his position and that would make my choice but he "supposed" that it would come to that.I said that given how he felt D seemed to be the only option.

I am now regretting raising the D word because in all our arguments he has never raised it. I have done so in anger and fear. This is his 2nd marriage.

I have now retreated into a cordial silence since his declaration. We slept in separate rooms for the first time. I think it best if I do not speak to him about our M or mention the word D. I am the one who would like our marrige to be saved but there are big changes that we both need to make if we are to have a chance. It could never proceed the way it was in the past because I know that the R was getting stale and that we were growing apart. I am praying and seeking guidance on working on my changes while praying and observing to see whether this OW r/ship will run its course and whether he seems to be changing.

Does anyone have any practical advice as to how I may quietly try to rekindle his interest in our M and to show him that I can change my controlling and impatient behaviour? His mind seems pretty made up but I know that things can and do change so I am realistically positive. At this stage I do not intend to take any action to terminate our M and feel certain that he will not do so in any hurry.

Problem is that he tries to spend as little time as possible in my presence probably because for the past few months all I have done is question, cry, yell etc. Even I don't want to be around me like that! So obviously my behaviour changes and I "become still" for the time being but what else can I do? My inner voice says do nothing, just be.

I appreciate your replies because I realise that you have been thorugh this and maybe can say what works for you. Thanks!

Kara,

First off, yes you need to post your own thread. The place for that will be at the beginning of the site, once you get to online community, look for it. Give it a name or title that we can recall easily to find you. If you post a lot on others' threads, you'll hijack someone's (don't worry at this point as many of us did this at first) and that isn't fair to them BUT you'll also get piecemeal advice or people will lose you.

Second, you have to READ the Divorce Busting/Divorce REmedy books NOW or this won't make sense to you and you'll continue to do the opposite of what you are supposed to do. So IF YOU WANT TO BE HAPPY AND MARRIED then read the books and change your approach NOW...BUT IF YOU WANT TO BE "RIGHT" THEN GO AHEAD AND BE ANGRY ALL THE TIME UNTIL HE SURRENDERS OR DIES OR YOU ARE DIVORCED...B/C HEY, YOU ARE "RIGHT"...see my point? Do you want to be happy, or do you want to be "right"?

Yes we've all been there in some form. So read the book and if you only have time for one, I'd say read the latter ONLY b/c the first one discusses how bad divorce is so if you already know that, go to the Div Remedy book BUT if you are confused,, then get both and start with D Busting...

STOP TALKING ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM NOW and do not bring up the books YOU are reading b/c they are for YOU and YOU ONLY. Do not "SHOW" him you are different now, in a matter of days...

Be different. Start with the 180s (opposite of what he expects of you or from you--)those will DEMONSTRATE thru your actions and NOT meaningless words, who you are NOW....(think of who he fell in love with, and become her again). Did you nag him then? Bet not. Your words are like bees buzzing to him, or worse...nothing you SAY will affect him EXCEPT THE DIVORCE word and you don't need to say that again. IF you want to stay M to him, let HIM be the one to FILE...sometimes the MLCer is so confused and takes a long time to see that a divorce is NOT what he wants after all but if you already filed and it's over, then that's that...SOME men/women need to see the risk of loss before they will wake up but in this case your anger and comments have turned him off so he won't see divorce as much of a loss to him YET....(this does NOT mean you should not see a lawyer as it is stupid not to do so. See a lawyer and ask questions and pay for a consultation. You don't have to DO anything and most lawyers know that most clients simply want their fears addressed. If you wish to retain them down the road, your h will likely have to foot the bill if he is the bigger bread winner. But again, your lawyer will advise you of how vulnerable you could be, or not. Mine was great (and I am a L but I don't give advice here, fyi) but she told me essentially what the worst case scenarios were and the best and the most likely and at one point I DID file for a sep to protect h from "investing" our house with his heroes in Alaska....well, thank GOD for that since we'd have lost even more if I had not done that...generally I felt empowered by my Lawyers info as it gave me choice. I did not feel trapped. Or cornered or fears of being on the streets b/c I had made a lot of career sacrifices, etc.

Stop trying to understand what is NOT understandable. Pay no attention to what he says, and only half of what he does....re-read that last sentence or you'll go nuts as his moods and words and actions will NOT match up...

SO go read those books, and get your own thread and ON that thread, post how long you have been married, "together", # kids and their ages, relevant SHORT info about what or how you got here... OW (other woman) issues, etc,

Snooping and all that info IS IN THE BOOKS so you need to read those to get support here that is effective. Meaning some of this is NOT intuitively obvious. We all feel that if our spouses cheat, THEY SHOULD STOP but saying that is useless. If you are sure it means it's over IF he is having an affair, then snoop, get proof you "need" for closure and file...

But if you are interested in TRYING to salvage this even with an affair in the history (and many people do) then STOP SNOOPING as it is counter productive, destructive, and will consume YOU.

For now, lose the anger you feel at least in front of him. It only confirms his choices b/c now he can justify leaving since you are so difficult and hard to be around and "controlling" and "critical" and whatever other blah blah blah he says. But your anger will fuel his negative images and you need to counter those negatves with positives....a warm and loving home, laughter, kids playing, the good stuff without hitting him over the head manipulating...so don't get out the wedding album to "just look"...

But if you have kids, INVOLVE HIM WITH THEM and let him see you lovingly interacting with them. Let him contrast the warmth and comfort of your beautiful new home (don't make it out to be an albatross b/c you'll be associated with THAT) with whatever the heck he thinks is out there...let OW and the A run its' course without you commenting anymore about it. The typical A lasts 6 months...what was the reason his last M failed? The snooping and anger will ruin YOUR LIFE so calm down...and don't think for a minute that You being calm and serene will make him think you don't care or you are condoning it. That's an excuse you want to use to stay angry...Has your anger worked? No. Has the constant carping reminded him of how wonderful you are and how much he loves being with you? NO....so
STOP GOING DOWN CHEESELESS TUNNELS....

There, that should be a good start for you...I'm very sorry you are here, but you are in the right place for this time in your life. For what it's worth, see my signature below and notice that some of us DO MAKE IT THROUGH...but it ain't easy. If it is a mid life crisis all that means is MAYBE he'll snap out of it and be mostly like he once was...but a lot of people say theire spouses are "crazy" when really they're just miserable and have been awhile, and some of us have been sleep walking through our marriages too and got complacent. Some of us brought some of this upon ourselves.

Whatever things YOU know you"own" as far as doing destructive things to the marriage, need to change now. Bravely look within and begin YOUR OWN WORK...IT IS NOT YOUR JOB TO SHOW YOUR SPOUSE THE CONSEQUENCES OF HIS ACTIONS; LIFE WILL DO THAT FOR HIM...you are to listen like a lover if you can...applaud loudly for the 1% of positive things he does or says and lose the anger at least in front of him,....those are words right out of my DB coach's mouth and they helped me more than you know. It is very hard (like Mother Teresa Hard) to do at times...OMG, I KNOW....but I had to let go of the anger even when "justified", (we all KNOW it's Justified...so what??) OR my anger and pain would ruin my life and my children's.(NOT H's)...and keep in mind if you do have kids that you are modelling for them (they are watching you) what a woman of grace and dignity does when faced with a terrible blow to her heart. Does she collapse and fall apart or become a bitter hardened woman? (both types are NOT attractive and will NOT get your h back)
No, you are a woman who will always (from now on) be calm in the face of betrayal, serene in knowing that although she was a flawed woman, she faced her own faults and corrected them and found grace and peace within and at some point when your h sees all this and has his doubts and OW starts whining and needling and making demands...you will be the one he wants....and if not, you're still a woman who "didn't lose her sh--"...

(I found Marianne Williamson's books on "Handling Anger" VERY helpful, and "The Gift of Change" also. I put them on my IPOD and took long walks listening to her).

If you can afford it, and you really probably can, get some DB coaching appointments ASAP as they are very specific and for ME AND US more helpful than MC (even though I LOVED our mc and h eventually did like the guy too) but DB coaches are specific and you need that now. I saw several MC's some with h and some not. Went on meds at one point, for sleep mainly but also to keep myself from yelling at him, worked out, Got A Life (GAL is a word you'll see here a lot and YOU MUST DO IT NO MATTER WHAT), joined things, made NEW friends, became interested and interesting, and started moving on in my life... Then h started calling more and the rest is history...still being made.

Good luck,
( j )

Posted By: kara Re: Newbie - first post - 04/26/09 09:33 AM

Thanks a Mill,J. This really helps.

You have reinforced a lot of what I feel I should do. I know my anger is destructive and has done a lot of damage. I felt justified becuase I was being treated so disrespectfully but I realise that giving it time would have been the better option. I just became obsessed and am dialling down from that because it is very unhealthy and not who I need to be.

I have started my 180.I am going to post my own thread now, so I hope you will check it out so I can talk to you again.

Kara

.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 04/27/09 05:23 AM

Thanks so much for the response, I've enjoyed each one so much! I do feel like I'm taking ownership of my errors with H, but certainly there's more work to be done. I try to journal about that stuff, and if I ever get another chance I know I need to let H be himself, not control or nag, and respect him for all the ways he's different than me. Those differences and the similarities as well brought us together... and maybe they'll bring us back together again. Time will tell.

I have not contacted a L. I did feel like that would be getting ahead of the sitch, but perhaps not. I've got some folks at work that have been down this path. I'll see if I can get a referral. Good thought.

I do have a C and started the AD's 10 days ago. I think both are helping my PMA a lot. I will look into the DB coaching... I am totally sold on this method... it may not save my M, but if it doesn't I'll come out the other side healthier. And if any technique can help save the M, I believe this is it.

Today should have been a tough day but I came through it pretty well. My H's work has a 'end of season' party at one of the ski areas every year. I didn't go, of course, and went to my S's BBall tournament out of town instead. The games kept my mind off of all the memories of years past, and I didn't obsess too much about whether H took OW along or not. Out of my control. If my DB'g works effectively, maybe next year's party will be different.

Oh, and the suggestion for auditioning is spot-on. I did some theater in HS and always wanted to try again. That would be a huge leap for me, but yes, working back staqe would be a fun way to get back into it. Excellent idea!

Posted By: hopeful_cb Re: Newbie - first post - 04/27/09 09:03 PM

Hey mnt I just wanted to say hi and check in on how you're doing. You sound really positive and like you are making some great actions towards helping you.

I can really identify with some of what you said...
Quote:
and if I ever get another chance I know I need to let H be himself, not control or nag, and respect him for all the ways he's different than me. Those differences and the similarities as well brought us together... and maybe they'll bring us back together again. Time will tell.

I see some of me in this as well.

good for you for keeping busy with the BBall games $\:\)$

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 04/28/09 03:24 AM

Thanks for checking on me, Hope. $\:\)$

Our timelines are similar and patience is hard to come by. I'm feeling better - mostly. I frequently wake up at night having dreams or thoughts about H. If I get back to sleep, I'm usually better in the morning. Once I get on with me day, I don't obsess about his activities. And getting on the DB site makes me feel so much better... we can only control ourselves and our actions. WAS actions turned our worlds upside down, but it's up to us to get things right-side up again and continue on our journeys.

I read on this site that Men want what they can't have, or think they can't have... I believe that's true. So, I'm not going to be so available to H. Gotta get on with life, and show H that I'm doing just fine and maybe he'll take notice. If not, I'm going to survive this... I will survive!

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 04/29/09 05:59 AM

Just Journaling...

Appears OW was at the weekend party with H. Of course, I can't control that or what our friends/his friends/etc. think about the sitch. But, I have to admit tonight that I'm feeling a little sorry for myself.

I wish I was missed. Wish H would somehow acknowledge my existence other than to gather account #s, etc. from for the bills. He called Sat. and I keep re-thinking his tone, questions, etc. So stupid. All he said was "hi" and "how's it going". I wish he'd contact me to see how I'm doing. He's still so cold and disconnected.

And I know I contributed to this with my questions, judgments and pressure. What I'd give for a chance to REALLY apologize and try to give it another chance.

Pretty worried I'm not going to get that chance, especially when he doesn't contact me at all. My former BF would have checked in. This guy just doesn't seem to care.

Posted By: pearlharbr Re: Newbie - first post - 04/29/09 06:40 AM

Go back and read your post just before this journal entry. That's the attitude you want to try to maintain. I know it's hard and this whole thing sucks, but your H is probably deep in A fog right now so he is not himself. If you do not want to actively bust up the A then you must be willing to wait it out.

Yes, you contributed to your issues. But don't beat yourself up over it. The best thing to do is work on you and become the best person you can be. Recognizing your own personal issues and dealing with them will be good for you no matter what happens in your life. And keep in mind that no one is perfect.

I may sound like a broken record but you need to take the focus off of your H and put it squarely on yourself. Worrying about getting the chance to do things differently still makes him the center of your world. That's not going to do you any good.

Get started on those new GAL activities! Do you have that pedicure scheduled? I know the snow the other day was weird but I'm convinced we're done with it now. What about dance classes, book club, and theatre? BTW, those are exactly the types of things I like to do!

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 04/29/09 12:56 PM

Thx - you're so right. I have to wait it out and take this time to focus on me.

I don't remember reading much about the 'fog' in th DR. In terms of doing 180s and trying different things for reactions, is the premise basically that until the A fog lifts that nothing the LBS does is going to matter - so take the time to work on yourself and later apply the DR techniques? I started a solution-based journal, but there's been so little interaction that it doesn't seem like I'm getting a chance to experiment.

GAL - nope, I haven't followed up on the dancing, book club or theatre. I'll make that a goal today - thx. I do start tennis next week. Saturday would be a good day for the pedicure and then sandals next week? I hope you're right about the snow - I'm ready for some sun and to plant my vegetable garden. Just a couple more weeks before planting season.

Posted By: pearlharbr Re: Newbie - first post - 04/29/09 01:52 PM

You're right, I don't think there is anything in the book about being in the affair fog. Go over to the infidelity forum and read a few threads there. You'll see that it's a theme. Cheating spouses are so caught up in the emotions of the affair that they are not thinking or acting normally or rationally. Experience shows that while they are fogged out there isn't much you can do to get through to them. Even the DB coaches will tell you that marriage counseling is pointless until you are in stage 3 - return to romance.

That's why I asked if you want to actively work on breaking up the affair or just wait it out. Those are the two main schools of thought and people are passionate about the choices. Let me know if you want more info and I can point you to advocates of both sides and you can read up on what each believes works.

You should still work on DBing. GAL is crucial as are loving detachment and acting 'as if.' You may not have much opportunity to practice 180s but you should know what they are and be ready if/when the occasion presents itself. Also good to start examining behavioral patterns and look for cheeseless tunnels so you know what not to do.

I do hope it warms up next week. I'm starting an outdoor conditioning class on Tues and it's still pretty cold at 6am. And I'd like to get the vegetable garden going too.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 04/30/09 01:36 PM

Thx for explaining the fog more; that makes sense. I looked at the infidelity forum. If you can point me to advocates for 'waiting it out' I'd appreciate that.

FIL is encouraging H to talk with me and the kids, but has no idea if/when that will happen. FIL also said the way my BF got into H's face about not talking to the kids wasn't helpful and in fact probably pushing him further away.

I can't control how other people relate to H. Just how I handle things, and I believe waiting it out and taking this time to work on me is the best way to proceed. Hopefully the A will end sooner rather than later, and maybe the fog will lift.

Posted By: pearlharbr Re: Newbie - first post - 04/30/09 03:27 PM

Try to read whatdidido's past threads. Also, post over there and ask them for help. I can't help any more since I personally do not believe in waiting it out.

I will keep an eye on you so holler if you need me.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/01/09 05:34 AM

Thanks for your input, PH, much appreciated.

Journaling...

At FIL suggestion and after talking with a friend at work, I sent an email to H tonight. I've been dark for over a month with little reaction so maybe the 180 hasn't been effective (or I just got impatient!). Time will tell.

But since FIL thought I needed to reach out, and he's the only one that H is talking to that is talking to me, I figured it's worth a shot.

Said something to the effect of 'hope you're doing well. The time apart as giving me time to think, reflect and move forward. Hope it's been good for you too. When you're ready (vs. other people's timelines), i think the kids would like to talk. They care about you regardless of our situation and if you want me to be there or talk beforehand, let me know. also said i hoped he was finding some happiness and doing well'. Tried to be friendly but not pushy - he needs to reconnect with the kids, but when he's ready - not when others think he should.

Now I go dark again, and watch to see if there's any change. But it seemed like a good idea.. no pressure, just checking in... the worst that can happen is he doesn't respond, i think. the best would be that he'd respond, and maybe we could work on our friendship a little... rebuild that piece by piece and see where it goes.

As far as GAL, I've got a busy weekend planned without the kids home. My sister and I will get together, I am going to play pool with an old friend, getting a pedicure, and working on some craigslist stuff. Trying to move on with life, and become the woman that only a fool with leave.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/02/09 06:28 PM

No response from H to the email, but he did respond to my text this AM re: unpaid cc bills. Said he's meeting with a credit counselor on mon. 1st indication from him of doing something responsible after moving out so I take that as a good sign. He's just 2 weeks late on 2 bills, but the cc companies are calling already. I'll get back to them after H's mtg on mon.

I asked via text how he was... just a few short msgs back and forth but when I said I was good too, he wrote 'that's good!'. Probably eases his guilt to hear that, but I am trying to give the indication I'm doing all right and moving on. I'm actually starting to believe it. I don't think I've cried all week, and I know I can survive without H if I have to. I really wish he'd warm up to me, and we could rebuild the friendship and maybe more. Baby steps. Maybe this morning's conversation is a small step in that direction, but only time will tell.

Posted By: hopeful_cb Re: Newbie - first post - 05/02/09 06:36 PM

you sound positive regarding the baby steps. I hope it keeps going this way for you. I always think that too when H says a comment about how good I'm doing, that it probably eases his guilt!

good on you for not crying this week, it sounds like you are doing well for yourself. Keep busy this weekend and stay positive. Keep up the good work.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/05/09 05:04 AM

Got a text from H today. Wants to meet for lunch tmrw. Can only assume it's about his appt with the credit counselor today but I didn't ask. Considered saying I wasn't available but I'd like the phone to stop ringing. So I agreed. Meeting for lunch right after my appt with C. Should be good to prep for lunch with the C beforehand.

Assume it'll just be finance discussions. Plan to keep focus on H - listen to his ideas (but no commitment to plan tmrw/just listen). I always handled the bills so I feel like it's very important to really listen to how H is thinking of handling situation. Plan to talk with the finances and then make light conversation focused on H and how he's doing. I know I'm skinnier than last time he saw me but doubt he'll notice or acknowledge. Most every day someone comments at work my jeans are hanging off me.

So, the goals for tmrw:

be upbeat
no R talk
don't get emotional
work on friendship - period

Goals for the week for GAL:

tennis lessons
nurture friendships
spend time with Mom
more Craigslist items
sign up for 10k with my sis

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/06/09 05:19 AM

Wow. This was such a hard day.

Met H for lunch right after my C appt. So, we made small talk about work, etc. Sounds like he doesn't feel secure at work and has applied around town with some other things. He's always wanted to work in the ski industry, so this is a surprise but I didn't react. Just listened. Still planning to put in for mountain jobs in the fall.

Discussed bills and the plan. Then he started looking away like he knew he needed to say some things but how to start... said he wants to talk to the kids but wasn't sure when or what to say. Validated that could be hard but he doesn't need to have all the answers right now, but reassure them he cares about them and none of this is their fault. He nodded his head.

Then he said there was something else he wanted to talk to me about but since I had to go back to work, he'd wait. I have no idea what this could be. Assume it's that he's started a R with OW but up until now he's completely denied it and their FB pages (according to BF) say people should mind their own Biz and OW says she's a proud Christian willing to shout it from the rooftops...! I send up prayers that God will work in her life to realize that she's not helping a marriage to heal with her involvement with H, on whatever level it is.

Anyway, H had some tools he wanted to get from the house so when I got home after picking up the dog from the groomer, he was loading his mountain bike, kayak stuff and tools into his car. I asked if he was taking everything and said he didn't need to unless he had a place to store it.. but he seemed to clearly want to get his stuff out. I tried to play it off like no biggie but I think my reaction came through.

Other than that, I was pretty confident and happy. He started off lunch asking how I was and when I said 'good', he said 'well, that's good then, right?'. Whatever.

Feeling pretty mad right now. I really thought we'd be together forever. And 'if' he's with a 21 yr old, I think it's the ultimate slap - I mean how much worse can it get, unless he left me for another man! I really feel like a loser that I couldn't keep him happy.

On the other hand, he's responsible for his happiness and he's the one not showing the maturity to stay committed or work on us.

The neighbor guy asked him today what was up. H said he really wanted to move to the mtns permanently and when the neighbor said he thought H had it all here - freedom to go ski whenever, wife that didn't nag about it, money, etc. - H said he thought we were at different points in our lives. Neighbor asked if there was a chick involved, and H said no.

So, I'll snap back but for tonight I'm just angry and irritated. I deserve the chance to make us work. And his selfishness and guilt/shame/whatever is keeping him from opening up and trying to make us work. Very, very frustrating!

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/06/09 01:43 PM

I went back a couple weeks to read my posts. Obviously I let myself get focused on H again yesterday, but today is a new day. Taking focus off him and back on myself. Read a post from "kara" who put it so well... 'let go and let God'. So it's out of my control and out of my hands.

Tennis tonight - I'm looking forward to getting some lessons and then I can play with the kids at the park. Moving ahead...

As Scarlett said, 'tomorrow is another day' and I'm going to make it a good one.

Posted By: hopeful_cb Re: Newbie - first post - 05/06/09 09:29 PM

It does sound like it was a hard day there for you mnt. I feel for you. But like you reminded me look back at what you said the goals for the meeting were. It sounds like you accomplished them and did well keeping strong while H was there.

I understand how its easy to slip and get focused on H. I found that post you mentioned really helped me regain my perspective and begin to refocus on me again rather than what I can't control.

Tomorrow is another day you are so right, I think this all the time as well as 'one day at a time' when I get overwhelmed.

Good for you on the tennis. Have you ever played before? That is something I always thought about doing but my coordination never agreed too well with the idea.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/07/09 05:53 AM

Thanks Hope. Tennis was a blast. I laughed all the way through it bc my coordination isn't that great either. I kept launching the ball like a baseball and sending the ball flying... but it was fun and we all laughed at ourselves! It goes for 4 weeks and on Wed's which is my free night so it's a good distraction.

Then I went to my BF's and watched their 4 yr old break dance $\:\)$ and then read him some books b4 bed. So sweet he is, and they grow up overnight...!

I had a call from the radiologist office that they want to re-do my mammogram. That's disturbing but I guess it could be anything... I'll call the DR tmrw for more info but I can't even imagine how hard it would be to go thru chemo as a single mom. But I will take it one day at a time and just stick with that.

Talked to H twice today about bills. He seems a little more comfortable talking to me on the phone so maybe lunch yesterday was good for that and working on the friendship, which I did have listed as a goal. Maybe it's something to build on but I'm just gonna take care of myself and the kids.

I should note that I woke up today feeling pretty angry/mad at H for his actions. I think I'm moving along in the grief process and healthy anger is part of it. By mid-day I wasn't thinking about H anymore and tonight I'm fine. I've never been very good at holding a grudge anyway.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/07/09 10:47 PM

Journaling...

Just read a post from 'Coach' with an interesting quote 'the people that have had success DB'g kept a PMA and found the good in the situation'.

So, PMA - I believe I'm doing very well. Haven't cried in awhile, making more changes around the house to make it feel different/more my own, exercising, getting comments almost every day about how good I look (15 lbs lost), feeling much more myself at work with laughters and smiles back on my face, comfortable with the kids and how they're coping and I feel pretty peaceful most days anymore.

My BF's H that works with my H told BF after I left last night that I seem to be doing much better than H. Guess he doesn't seem happy and he thought I seemed to be doing pretty well. I think I am too!

And the good in the situation.....

I was taking my R for granted. This situation reminds me about the value of a happy, healthy R. I am working on how to get my teenagers to open up with feelings... instead of just coasting along, I'm working on healthy discussions when they're open to it. I've talked with FIL and SIL more and mended some fences there. I appreciate my BFs, but want to listen to their stuff too - it's a two-way street and it's nice to get the focus off of me. Mammogram scare... won't know for a few weeks along the dr said it's quite common to have to re-do the films. The good in that is it reminds me to take care of my body. Especially as a single mom. Eat right, exercise. Appreciate the time we have while we have it.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/10/09 06:36 AM

Journaling on a Saturday night...

Today I de-personalized the house a little more. Switched up our dish set that we picked out together for another set I've been storing. Went through the bedroom and boxed up the last of H's things and tossed what I could. Found a pile of cards he had kept over the years (anniversary and v-day cards from me and/or the kids) and I put those away.

I guess I just feel like I need to change up the spaces in the house more. It doesn't seem like H has any intention of reaching out to me. The LRT isn't getting any reaction from H, unless I'm overlooking something. No texts or calls. Did have lunch Tues but it was small talk and bills, and I still think he only wanted to meet in order to tell me something else about his situation - either with OW or something different. But no indication he wanted to meet just to see me. Maybe I should be doing something different, but what?

FIL said that H mentioned to him that he was glad I was taking care of myself. Not sure what that means... but is that a reaction to LRT or just trying to find some peace with his decisions?

But regardless, I am taking good care of myself and feeling much better. Still cry sometimes, like when I was looking for some photos of the kids for my FB page, b/c H was such a part of our lives; but mostly I'm feeling pretty decent.

Lots to be grateful for, including two great kids that love me unconditionally. That is a blessing in itself.

Posted By: goingtofixME Re: Newbie - first post - 05/10/09 07:05 AM

Way to go on the PMA. I also need to de-personalize. I don't know what is holding me back. Like seeing her car at the gym isn't sign enough that he isn't coming back. Enjoy the kids. It's always good for everyone all around.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/11/09 05:45 AM

Thx for the post. My PMA is pretty good right now. My kids are so good and special to me. As a sophomore and junior in HS, I have such little time left. Gotta make the most of it. My S went to prom last night with a group. He didn't get home until 3:30am but I did a good job trusting him, and even went to sleep until he got home. I definitely wish my H was still here to have talks with S and support me with the challenges of teenagers, but I know I can handle whatever comes my way.

I've had two invites from male friends this week... just friends and I want to get out and do some things when the kids aren't home. But it feels strange. I really just want H to wake up and start noticing me again, but it doesn't seem like that's going to happen any time soon. I have no romantic interest in these two but they are fun single guys so maybe it'd be good for me?

Also, the wedding ring... any thoughts from those that have walked this journey beforehand regarding the ring... how long to keep it on during a separation. I understand it's a personal choice, but I'm starting to wonder... if I'm GAL and want to show H's friends and family I'm moving on with life, should I take off the ring? Just curious what others think.

Posted By: goingtofixME Re: Newbie - first post - 05/11/09 06:23 AM

I can't advise on the wedding ring as I gave my engagement ring (his grandmother's ring) back. He never worked enough to buy me a wedding ring.

I would go and have fun with your friends. I'm sure others won't agree, but it isn't like your H is sitting at home pining away.

Congrats on being able to sleep while the son was out. Mine gets his license this June. I am so not looking forward to it!

Posted By: hopeful_cb Re: Newbie - first post - 05/11/09 07:41 AM

I've been contemplating the same issue with my ring this weekend. I feel like I want to wear it bc it means a lot to me and reminds me of my commitment and that I am still married, but I feel like a fake wearing it lately. I also think H will see it as a sign I'm moving on if I take it off. So I'd be interested to see what others say.

Posted By: xalelle Re: Newbie - first post - 05/12/09 12:00 AM

Ring is a really tough question, and I think the answer has to be personal.

You have to do what you feel suits your feelings and emotions. It can be a bit painful sometimes looking at that ring and knowing you are still dedicated to your vows, and feeling that your S is not currently dedicated to those vows. However, it can also be strengthening - a personal declaration of your feelings, that you are not giving up.

Dont worry about the message either sends to your spouse. If they ask, you dont have to answer, and if you want to answer, you answer honestly:

"I still wear my ring because I am still dedicated to my vow and our R. I understand that you are not it the same place right now but I cannot let that alter my (feelings, commitment, whatever word suits)"

"I took my ring off because at this point in our R, while I am still dedicated to our M and would like us to resolve our differences, it is a symbol of our united commitment, which is not an honest reflection of the current state of our M. If and when that reflection is accurate again, I will wear it proudly."

Wearing a ring for your commitment is not fake. Taking it off for fear of what others say/do/thinks is much more fake.

Do what reflects you.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/12/09 02:06 AM

Thanks for all the responses - I agree it's a very personal choice and I'm going to take some time to think about my choice. "Do what reflects me"... hmmm, something to think about for sure! I forgot to put my ring back on one day last week and I felt naked! So, for now it stays on while I give it more thought.

I'm off to a good week. Signed up for a 10K in Colorado called the Bolder Boulder. I'm going to run it with my sister (well run/walk!) and I haven't ran it in almost ten years. It definitely feels like a GAL move and more importantly, it makes me happy. It is quite a thrill to run into the CU stadium at the end with the crowd, etc. So, that's something to look forward to.

Posted By: hopeful_cb Re: Newbie - first post - 05/13/09 07:11 PM

Wow, great GAL move with the 10K run. I was thinking of joining a beginners running group. lol have to start off small I guess.

Hope your week's going well. Keep doing things that make you happy!

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/13/09 08:08 PM

Thanks for the encouragement. Joining a beginners group is a great idea. I know I can't run the whole thing, but it'll be fun.

I'm having a tough day and I don't know exactly why. I took the day off from work and went to a baseball game with a male friend of mine and his sister. It was fun, but I found myself thinking about my H so much! I also got a text from H during the game that he'd transferred a cc balance to a new card, so I could close mine. Another sign that he's taking some responsibility, which is good.

I tried to reach out with a 'what's new with u' text, but he didn't have much to say and I know I can't push.

I know that GAL is what I need to do, but sometimes it just stinks. I wish we could just talk... no romance, no ILYs, I just want some conversation! Ugh!

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/14/09 03:10 AM

Snapped myself out of that lil' funk! Went to my tennis/cardio class tonight and laughed a lot again. We run all over the court chasing balls and giggling like kids!

Reminds me to find joy in little things... a good book, music, emailing with an old friend. Stuff just for me and amazingly I feel better. Also, when I'm feeling hopeless (like earlier today) a quick prayer to thank God for His comfort and love. I have to Let Go, and Let God do His work.

This is my time to work on me - my shortcomings, my judgments and agendas - and my H's time to work on himself, as he chooses. It's tough being in the dark without any communication but maybe it's necessary to teach me better patience and true unconditional love.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/16/09 05:44 AM

Journaling..

Had dinner at a friend's house tonight. So good to catch up and laugh about HS and college days. She is a blast and I've missed her so much. Why did I stop making time for her and vice versa? Not sure but this was a great night and I hope to see her more often now.

She asked me what I plan to do after the kids go to college... and it got me thinking. H and I always hoped to move to the mnts and it seems that's still his plan for the fall but what will I do... the possibilities are wide open. As my friend said, you could move away... you could do anything you want...?

Wow. I still am DB'g and praying daily for us and hope H will decide to give our M another chance. But, if it doesn't work out the possibilities are wide open. I could get my little place in the mnts myself. I could relocate wherever I want...

I'm reading a new book that I like. It's called Before The Last Resort. Good advice, step by step. 1st one is to write down a verse from Jeremiah about God being the creator of all, and is there anything He can not do...

So, no, there's nothing He can't do. And I need to stay out of the way, work on me, and let Him do His work.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/17/09 03:06 PM

Learned a new skill yesterday. H always maintained the lawnmower, cars, etc. and I went to mow the grass yesterday and the mower wouldn't start up. Read up on the web about air filters, etc. and talked to my BF's hubby about changing out the spark plug, old gas, etc. Had to go get some tools from my BIL b/c H only left me a few screwdrivers and got the parts I needed at the store.

My neighbor then offered to help me, so I learned out to change the sparkplug, drain the old gas, take apart the blade, etc. It was fun! Unfortunately it's still not working so my friend will try to come by today to look at it, and I may have to take it to a shop. But it was empowering to take care of some of the stuff myself and learn what to do next time.

My H really disliked yardwork and always wanted to be biking or kayaking instead. I think maybe it was just overwhelming the work owning a house requires. If I can knock out the unfinished projects bit by bit, I'm hoping when H comes back home he'll be glad he doesn't have to worry about those anymore and we can just have fun and work on our R. If he never comes home, then I've moved forward and took care of what needed to be done anyway!

Posted By: hopeful_cb Re: Newbie - first post - 05/17/09 06:56 PM

Wow that's so great that you worked on the lawnmower! That is one of those things I would automatically think I 'can't' do. Those are all the things I need to start thinking differently about. You must feel really good about what you did. I need to keep that inspiration in mind every time I'm faced with a challenge. We are all capable of new and good things.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/21/09 02:42 AM

For the most part, I'm feeling very peaceful about my sitch. Not crying anymore, GAL and moving forward. Felt good to address the mower situation w/out contacting h. Just keeping praying and reminding myself that I can't control h. If h wants to work on us, he'll contact me. I know I'm happier at work and with friends. Not 'every' conversation with others is about h any more. I'm letting go (control) and letting God do His work.

In my weaker moments, I wonder if things have become too 'dark'. I had a text last week about a cc balance xfer and sm talk that I initiated. Nothing since. Before that, it was a week since we'd had lunch which he initiated but didn't seem to accomplish anything except he got to see that I'm taking care of myself, looking better, feeling better, etc. but then h came over to the house to clear out his tools and bike/kayak/etc.

I was re-reading DR re: the LRT and how to watch/observe... with the separation approaching 3 months, it's really hard to see any progress. But 3 months is less than many on the DB boards experience. It's just the lack of contact that makes it difficult to identify any forward-progress. Guess it just takes time and I have to keep working on my patience!

Went to my tennis/cardio class tonight even though I felt like skipping. Feel much better! Plans all weekend with the kids and doing more spring cleaning/decorating the house the way I want it. Plenty to do in the yard, but my sis reminding me the nephews and BILs can help me with things... just have to swallow my pride and ask for the muscle/power tool help when I need it.

This is my time to make myself a more patient, accepting and flexible person and a good role model to my children about how to handle adversity. Overall, doing well but I'm a 'work-in-progress'!

Posted By: The Wifey Re: Newbie - first post - 05/22/09 06:24 PM

mnt_dreams

Three months seems like an eternity, but I am close to one year. You will be ok. I promise you will be even if you can't see it right now. It took me far longer than 3 months to really get it. The weaker moments will come, but that what puff's tissues are for. You might also try journaling.

When I want to call H and cry to him, I journal instead. I write out what I would say if I would call. Usually when I read it the next day I slap my forehead and thank God that I didn't actually do it.

Give yourself permission to cry. Sometimes after you cry awhile you get it out of your system and can keep going.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/23/09 01:38 AM

Thx Wifey for the post. 3 months has been an eternity, and a year seems impossible. And yet, I just read your latest thread and your growth and PMA are inspiring!! You are so strong!

The weaker moments do come, and then I feel silly about posting here about having a bad day when I'm supposed to be moving ahead. But sometimes it's one step forward, two steps back. In general, I'm moving ahead pretty well I'd say.

Cried this morning when I woke up. Just miss my guy resting next to me to snuggle, and warm up next too. Guess I could let my dog sleep next to me instead but her morning breath might be too much to bear! Haha!

I'll take your suggestion to journal when I feel like calling h. Great idea.

Posted By: hopeful_cb Re: Newbie - first post - 05/23/09 11:01 AM

I too find the mornings hard sometimes, it used to be my favorite time, especially on the weekends. The time between when I get upset/cry is getting longer, definitely not everyday anymore and not been for a while. Keep on moving ahead like you said, don't feel bad for the 'two steps back' just think about the next one forward $\:\)$

I like the journal idea too, thanks, will try this.

Posted By: orchid01 Re: Newbie - first post - 05/23/09 12:52 PM

Hi mnt_dreams,

Just wanted to say 'Hope you are having a good morning'!

Also, I do journal a lot...I used to all the time before I got married and then, stopped. It does help you to just say all the crap that comes into your brain without acting on them.

It is you being your own best friend! It may sound crazy, but that is a R that needs to be cultivated as well...right now is a great opportunity!

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/23/09 01:51 PM

Good morning!

I'm being lazy this morning... reading DB threads and finding so many similarities... S up and drops the bomb, leaves with very little explanation and we're left to try and sort it out!!

So, I journaled last night with all the ?s I'd like to ask my h but can't. That was helpful! Read through my goals and GAL ideas. I've worked on some of them, but there's a lot more I could do. Would like to find a book club. I'm picking up Eat, Pray, Love ?? from the library today. Heard it mentioned her and it sounds like a good read. Also, need to do something different with my hair color. I stopped getting highlights several years ago to save $$ but I'm not crazy about the color. So, will schedule highlights next week. That'll be fun!

Have to drop off some mail to h at work this morning (well, don't have to but should) then off to watch S play in a b-ball tournament. The 10k is on Monday and it'll be fun to run with my sister.

Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Newbie - first post - 05/23/09 06:29 PM

Hey MD,

mornings can suck at these times and I'm not sure why. But I recall my grief during H's MLC and my dad's death and I thank God it's spring now, and I live in a beautiful area of the country, as do you. So, forcing yourself outside is a good idea. Um -are you SURE you "SHOULD" drop mail off at H's? Why? Why see him at all? (Besides, Wait til after the highlights!)

Also, maybe journalling the ?'s helps you. But you're still making this about what is in his mind/heart and frankly, you will NEVER know the answers to your questions. I mean it, never. Nor will you ever truly understand. And even if you did, how on earth would that help you? Too much energy going that way. You think info would be good for you, but I don't think it is and besides, it is not attainable. He doesn't know exactly why he is doing this or what he feels. You don't have the same marital memories or yardsticks and you cannot. You also said LBSers, ie you, are "left to sort it all out" but we/you are not. Finances and kids stuff, yes we DO get to handle ALL of that but at least with the kids, we are also closer to them and you don't have to worry about someone taking your kids, which some people here do have as a major heartbreak added to their first one.

But You are not "left to sort it all out"....no, you are "left" to GAL...and to be the best mom you can be. Try really hard to remember that this is not about him. Not anymore. It is ALL ABOUT YOU AND WHAT YOU WANT AND LOVE TO DO WITH YOUR ONE LIFE...

((( j )))

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/24/09 04:08 AM

Hey 25, thx for stopping by!

Great points about asking ?s... would I really want the answers?! Probably not and since I can't believe anything h says rt now anyway... This is my time to work on me and control/take care of what i can. And none of that involves h.

Didn't take the mail over to h - too busy!

Yes, very true - I have the kids and many aren't so fortunate. I will remember to feel thankful!

Today was a great day! Watched games and took a nap at the campus in the grass by a fountain... it was so peaceful! The kids and I are now trying to find a movie to watch. I'm pushing for An Officer and a Gentleman... they think it looks dumb! Kids!?!

Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Newbie - first post - 05/24/09 04:18 PM

how old are the kids again? Maybe they need "Top Gun" which does have a romantic ending and more "action"...hmmm, I LOVE FILMS...am going to finish incredibly NON marketable MFA in Film/Theater Acting...yes I AM GOING TO DO THAT.

There, new ACTION PLAN...thanks for solving my whole life's problems! Actually, have been mulling this oer and over and actually know I do want it. So why am I letting other stuff stop me? Hmmm. I won't. Money reasons will force me to go at night, but so what? It'll take a little longer...

Ttys,

J-

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/25/09 12:23 AM

The kids are 16 (d) and 17 (s). Top Gun is another "classic". Not like the oldie but goodies like GWTW or Dr Zhivago but pretty darn good... especially the volleyball scene. Yeah baby!

Day 2 of the BB tournament. Did a 180 on myself and left early. That would have shocked my h. But I left b/c I have to get to Boulder for the 10k tmrw am. Can't wait!!

25 - love the idea of finishing your MFA. No good reason not to pursue this! It took me almost 20 yrs to get my BA finished at a night school b/c I constantly started and stopped with various 'reasons' but finally I just did it. Just go for it!! I think you deserve to pursue something like this just for yourself. You're worth it!!

Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Newbie - first post - 05/25/09 01:12 AM

thanks. Exactly right about the MFA as I have a law degree doctorate but this would be ALL ABOUT ME and what I love and probably won't "market" it well. Tough. Can't market my languages either....but I love speaking French to my relatives and getting by in a few others...Christ, if learning and getting an education is all about the job market and only that, you may as well post me in front of a computer data something or other, or a factory line, and let me slowly die at a machine that requires the exact same motion nonstop....with NOISES, and cigarette smoke all around, and someone trying to sell me life insurance at the same time...hell...

J-

Posted By: hopeful_cb Re: Newbie - first post - 05/25/09 09:32 AM

Hi Mnt, Just wanted to say hi, im still following along with you. it sounds like you are doing good with your GAL and working on your goals...the goals thing is something i really need to reassess!

I think its good you didn't take the mail over. I keep thinking about taking H his as I see it piling up but then I stop and think, no, he knows where it is, he's the one the chose not to be here, he is a grown up and can get it if he needs it.

Did you end up getting that book you mentioned above, Eat, Pray, Love?? If so how is it? I've been looking for some new things to read.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/25/09 09:36 PM

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

let me slowly die at a machine that requires the exact same motion nonstop....with NOISES, and cigarette smoke all around, and someone trying to sell me life insurance at the same time...hell...
J-

That does sound awful! Wait a sec, I work in front of a screen in a cube surrounded by noise... Hahaha!!

Why not go for the MFA! Doesn't really matter if is marketable; just that you enjoy it. Think of the plays and monologues and ad-lib fun you could have! Why not take a class and see what you think...

I ran the 10k today. Ran the whole darn thing! Woohoo!!! I really am GAL!!! And it will be a good life!

Focusing on counting the blessings I have, not the ones I don't have. Read that somewhere here, and I'm stealing it! So much to be thankful for. Our country, our solidiers that paid the ultimate sacrifice, our families and those that love us. Roofs over our heads and food to eat, and enough respect for ourselves during these troubled times in our r's to get on with life, away from the pity parties, and treat ourselves well!!

Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Newbie - first post - 05/26/09 06:12 AM

well said and well run!!

Hey did I tell you I write monologues? I'm doing a book of them for actors...wacky...and yes, a play as well, but anyhow.

WISH I COULD RUN A 10K and now that I've written it, I'm wondering who's stopping me? Um...no one...just my chunky thighs that I bet would LIKE to be able to do a 10k...hmmm. FINE, you threw down the gauntlet! I'm picking it up. ONLY committing to a 5k for now...but am at least committing to it THIS calendar year and MAYBE a 10k will happen. H is getting hyper fanatical about exericise but I think in a good way --as our trip was NOT a dieting trip (I refused to diet in Italy, but AM paying for it now, but at least it was a "quality weight gain" if you know what I mean...) and h will finally LIVE here in a month. (H's mother is circling the drain now with a new brain tumor but still, we need him here and d's are feeling too estranged, which showed on the trip. Long story there but with a good ending, except for MIL, but am doing all I can already on that front...)

Hugs,

j-

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/26/09 07:40 PM

Thx - it was a big accomplishment! Paying for it today with various aches and pains, but it was totally worth it!

I didn't know about the monologues but you mentioned you were involved in theatre. I was in forensics and plays back in school and I've always enjoyed a great monologue. Good for you!

K - I'm going to remember you committed to the 5k! Bet you can find something in your area for mid-summer to shoot for! Sounds like you had an awesome trip to Europe. Too bad about MIL but I'm sure you're anxious for H to come home.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/27/09 12:17 AM

Journaling...

My BF wants to come by tonight to share some things she thinks I need to know... including that H traded in his jeep for a truck and she's worried abt my financial obligations for his purchases. I hadn't followed up on the L other than emailing a friend for references. Really need to do this.

Came home and in the mail was a CC stmt from Jareds in my H's name. We haven't bought anything there for years so I opened it up the envelope and it shows a purchase this month. WTH? Either it's a purchase of jewelry or maybe a balance xfer?? I'm confused and freaking out a little bit. What if he's purchased a ring for OW... would he be so cold as to have the stmt sent here B4 telling me? Wouldn't he file for D before he'd get engaged?

I know my thoughts are probably out in left field, but I don't know what to think about any of this.

Wishing for luck and prayers to hear what BF needs to tell me and not jump to conclusions.

Posted By: The Wifey Re: Newbie - first post - 05/27/09 01:02 AM

MNT-Take in what the friend says. Make note of it, but try not to fall apart. You already know he walked, you already know he thinks he's done. This is only information. Yes - I know it might hurt. But if you can take it in, and not contact him or scream at him like you most likely want to it would be better for you.

Definitely contact a L. Find out your rights and how to protect yourself. There are some legal protections for spouses. Start a journal and keep track of things like his truck, the Jared's purchase, etc.

As for that Jared's statement, you are going to have to search your conscience. Mine would be tempted to get rid of the statement so he wouldn't know to pay it. But, that is just me being a biotch.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/27/09 05:09 AM

k - thx. I'll make note of it in the journal.

BF came over and then my two sisters one by one. BF and sis had discussed what BF knew and agreed I needed to hear it. All three were here to support and comfort, and yet I know their opinions about what to do are different than my own. I didn't get very upset with them here... everyone says I'm doing so well, but I'm just keeping it in until I'm alone.

H is currently on vacation in S. Calif. 3rd or 4th hand info indicates OW planned to go to Calif to see her sister as well, so most likely they are together on vacation. He flew out there and yet two weeks ago told me money was very very tight. Also, H sold jeep and got 4 door truck (seems very impractical). I see jeep sale as a good thing b/c the loan was with my employer and if the pymts fall behind it can impact my employment - so that's good. However, he took on add'l debt with new truck so that's where I need to see L for advice.

Hurts like heck to think of them on vacation together. He never wanted to go anywhere warm with me. Always wanted to be in snowy places... Also, she's only 21. I really really feel bad tonight about this. I know logically it can't work out for them, and I believe in the DB techniques of 180s and acting as if, getting on with MY life - but what my BF and sister are right and I'm wrong and should let H know how hurt and sad I am? No, that's wrong - I tried that before and it just pushed him further away. As you said, Wifey, he's already walked away. He's doing what he wants anyway and in his mind he's made the break from me, so he feels free to pursue whatever he wants with the lil' 21 yr old or whomever. I think I'd be wasting my breath at this pt. But it hurts so much... I haven't contacted H tonight and don't plan to. Like the idea of misplacing the Jared bill... $\:\)$

My other sister is more in line with the DB concept - don't initiate D or separation... don't agree with H choices, but don't have to react by filing over it. It's hard to pick out from friends/family what's best to do, w/out them feeling like you don't value their opinions just b/c you don't do what they think is best.

Got the repeat mammogram tmrw. I can only pray it goes okay but with my luck this week, who knows.

Speaking of prayer, I'd really been praying for signs/peace/direction. I usually have a sense of peace afterwards that just waiting it out is the right thing to do, but I'm getting no signs or indication that he has any guilt/second thoughts... suppose that's because of the A fog but it would be so nice to have some sign I'm doing the right thing!! Impatient, I know! H won't awaken to his responsibilities/actions until the fog starts to lift.. I'm just thinking aloud now.

K - so planning to maintain my course. Can't control H. Only me. He maybe vacationing, sleeping with, and proposing to OW and who knows what else?? But this is only about me and my life and my kids anymore. Salvaging any R or re-building a marriage is so far away rt now that I can't even focus my energy there. Thx for reading along and tmrw will be a better day.

Posted By: hopeful_cb Re: Newbie - first post - 05/27/09 05:29 PM

Mnt, reading that post and how you are choosing to react(or not) to what you have learned has really helped me today. Even with everything, you are focused on what you can do and how you choose to be based on what is good for you & your kids. I know it is harder to live than just to say but I like your attitude. I need to really think about those things too. That is just what I needed to read. Thanks.

Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Newbie - first post - 05/27/09 06:02 PM

lots of choices and decisions but SOME ARE CLEAR...you cannot be financially screwed but you will be if you don't take some Legal action asap.

Get to a L's office NOW and fix your finances. This is a bad bad sign of things to come if he's so clueless that the bills go to YOU and he does not care to inform you of selling a car with your name on the debt AND taking more debt on? You think that means he did not put you on it? I mean the guy will use you financially as a co-signer I bet, but not tell you. So whatever you choose to do emotionally and DBwise, is for you to decide. I know I'd probably be moving forward closing the door but not locking it. I fear you are not moving ahead enough b/c you are sooo hurt and I would be too.

REGARDLESS OF THAT STUFF...you know you have to fix the legal and financial problems asap and protect yourself and your offspring. So do that and let that be enough for now until you are ready for handling more.

Yeah I hear you about the warm places and new behaviors. Very familiar as Lots of WAS do exactly what the lbs'ers always wanted to do...for awhile....but the real guy will surface and then they'll "meet each other" for real...

Not your problem. Your problem is the financial legal ones and once you start handling those problems, they won't be problems anymore...

((( )))
j-

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/27/09 11:51 PM

I think I'm numb. Just know I can't control H anymore, like I ever could, and that's that. I just created a timeline of events. A lot has happened since H went away to 'think'. But it all comes back to focusing on what we can control.

For me, that means controlling my reactions and thinking long and hard about what to do now for myself and the kiddos.

BTW, the repeat-mammogram came back negative. Nothing to worry about!! That's a relief!

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/28/09 12:05 AM

Working on the L. My name wasn't on the 1st loan, just connected to the place I work, which is why it's good it's paid off now. I don't believe I'm on the new loan, but that's probably a good ? for the L - can I be listed at a co-signer without actually signing? I'll try to find out. Good thought.

I will spend some time now thinking about what to do, and how to move forward. Will contact a L in the next week and get some input on our state laws, etc. Don't want to push towards D but protecting ourselves now is a must.

So, the logistics of that aside, it's been a TOUGH day! The mammogram came out fine which was a relief. Tried not to obsess about H on vacation with OW, but yes, it stinks he took her to a place I would love to be. When the real guy finally surfaces, what will he find? His wife may have moved on, and I am told most of his friends have lost all respect for him. One guy told my BF that I'm much cooler than OW and he's completely lost his mind.

So, if I file for a legal separation or something, I can still DB and become the person only a fool would leave, right? The risk, or maybe better put, the fear I have is by moving ahead with that I imply to H that I'm done. Or perhaps that's the correct assumption I want him to have, so he has to seriously consider what he's doing and the consequences of his actions...

Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Newbie - first post - 05/28/09 03:14 AM

!) protect yourself. How? See a L.

2) get information about your future and what plans you should/can make. How?
See a L.

3) Empower yourself to be able to visualize a good life with or without him, and that takes info, which you will be getting from #1 and 2.

4) continue to DB with your actions and words which also means you cannot control HIS actions/reactions so STOP worrying about them.

5) GAL which means more of #1-4 and whatever else you are doing to GAL, DB 101.

6) don't "teach him a lesson" or "show him consequences" b/c LIFE WILL DO THAT FOR HIM. These are not tactics, they are YOUR reality and your action plans, which HE caused you to somehow create. SO now You are creating a new life b/c you have to. That is reality.

I know this sucks, but you have SOME clarity. Keep the focus on you and yours...this is no dress rehearsal; it's the real thing and the only show you get to be in.

Be the star honey!

(( j )))

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/28/09 03:40 AM

Thank you so much.

This is my reality. So, what am I going to do about it... it's all up to me!!

Your outline helps a lot - thanks again.

Not a dress rehearsal, huh?! I like that! Well, the show must go on and if it's my show, I can't imagine anyone else playing my part. So I guess I better step up!

Posted By: kara Re: Newbie - first post - 05/28/09 11:28 PM

Hi mnt_dreams

How are you doing today? Thanks for the encouraging words on my post.

You said something interesting a page or two back to the effect that you know you cannot control H anymore.One of the things we learn fast in this sitch is that we can never control anyone. Some of us can't even control ourselves enough to walk by a chocolate bar (o.k that's me) so how on earth do we expect that we could control another human being? Any illusion we ever had of control was just that. An illusion. I was a big control freak now I am a huge advocate of letting go.

I know it hurts to hear about them on vacation. Is there anything you always wanted to do that you can do now to fulfill a long held dream? If so, do it and that should make you feel better.

What also works for me is taking the focus off H and putting it on God and myself. Keep your eyes fixed on the prize. The prize is coming out of this stronger and better. We can't go allow ourselves to go through something like this and emerge unchanged. THat would be a travesty. We can either emerge broken and bitter or whole and better. My attitude is that I will not allow myself to experience all this pain without emerging a better person.I have to let something positive come out of it.

I know that it can be confusing to talk to family or friends and receive so much different advice. After praying and reading a lot of books I decided what my course would be and I do not discuss details of my sitch with anyone except one or two (literally) non-judgmental people. It is good to have support but I don't want so many voices in my head.

I read something interesting this morning. I was praying about my sitch and asking the Lord, what next? I opened my inbox and there was an e-mail about facing challenging times and getting through them. It said that sometimes the only way to get through a rough day is to say what next and to take the next literal step e.g I will bathe, I will eat, I will go to the supermarket. So when I get stuck in a bd patch I plan to remind myself what to do next. It is like putting one foot in front of the other and taking those baby steps you told me about.

Posted By: orchid01 Re: Newbie - first post - 05/29/09 02:57 AM

Hi mnt-dreams, I just wanted to say that initially I was talking to my close friends & sister. Even that became too much. Everyone tried to help but I decided to talk to 2 people about my sitch so that I don't go do something off the wall. I told them that my goal is to preserve my M, but plan for the worst. I need them to support that goal & to NOT judge my H. We all have a journey, if this is ours .... I don't want to walk away from it a lesser of a person. So....not to use ur post, but keep the people u get advice from at a minimum. I think we have to learn also to trust our own judgement. I hope u had a good day!

Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Newbie - first post - 05/29/09 03:10 AM

You BOTH are strong amazing women finding silver linings AND MORE, in terrible situations.

Don't know your exact faiths, etc and don't care for details as long as you are fine with this suggestion. I read a book about The Gift of Change by Williamson, who helped do THIS EXACT think Kara is discussing. And recently I read another book, "Blue Like Jazz" for diff reasons and am bringing them up for diff reasons. Willaimson's book about change says it in the title and tells us HOW to find the pearls of wisdom and peace we are meant to find in these terrible times of ours. Such a good book and it helped my mom after my dad died too. It also is helping me now as I figure out how to live WITH H and d's and "find myself" without constantly having to check MY Choices with whether h will be here or there or where...meaning, with or without, I will do "x" and "y" and "z" and that is not always easy with a child at home AND a career that COULD require specific hours and nighttime networking and the idea that "well, you can WRITE anywhere!" is SO tiresome to hear. If that were true, I'd write while also doing heart surgery or arguing in court. Oh wait, I have to THINK to write...(I keep forgetting....)

ANYHOW....Blue Like Jazz IS about faith and he kind of critisizes the misuse of faithand religion in a FAIR way (like some LBSers who want to quote/throw scripture in the face of the WAS as if THAT will get the WAS to "love" them again...or think if they get the WAS to go to mass THEN the WAS will "get it" and crawl home....gotta wonder wth they are thinking but then, I myself recall trying to "guilt"my h into change but just didn't know enough scripture to use it!)

SO the author there, talks about letting OUR faith SHOW in our lives by how much strength and forgiveness we feel and let it be modelled (forgiving =letting go, not condoning, so that the feelings/thoughts/actions/reactions/ of the WAS do NOT dictate OUR mood every hour of OUR day's with us wondering why why why????)

and basically the author of BLJazz probes us into thinking about how much MORE of a diff we'll make in our children's lives with a faith of LOVE, belief in it (with or without the WAS) and moreover, the POSSIBILITY of a recon is so much higher if we are not standing there condemning them with our arms crossed, being RIGHT... (which only reinforces thte WAS choice to leave in the first place.)

Blue like Jazz is provocative, and when you are ready you may want to take a look at it. I am processing it still. But "The Gift OF Change" is a book you ARE BOTH ready for now as it will assist you on the road you have been forced to take, and to make the best of it. And I bet you'll learn that the best of THIS road, may indeed be the best of the best. Also check out that site or thread if you can b/c it validates what you going through. A few years down the road, I'd bet that NO ONE Who has actually "DBd" has ever said "MY LIFE STILL SUCKS" and 'IT'S ALL B/C OF WAS"....just does not work that way.

xoxo
(( j ))

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/29/09 03:29 AM

Hi Kara - thx for checking on me.

I had a great day!! I didn't have to work today, so I got busy this morning working on the garage. After H cleared out his stuff, it still seemed so much like his space so I reorganized! Boxed up his remaining momentos (bike race tags, key chains, etc.) and put it all away. Came across some old cards from me to him that he left behind, but I just put those in the box too w/out spending time to read them. Then I arranged the remaining tools, set up an area to work on the bikes and projects and I think it looks simply MARVELOUS!

This afternoon, I read my new novel "Eat, Pray, Love" out on the porch with a cold beer and just enjoyed relaxing in the sun, with a gentle breeze blowing. It's a good book so far... the main character is a lady going thru a D, and there's some good insight into the WAS and later the desperation many of us can identify with as we try to "save" our Rs. I'm only abt 30 pages in.

Contacted a L today, and am waiting a response for a consultation.

So, that was my day. Productive and I just love looking at the garage now... I mean I have to drive into it every day, so I might as well make it my space, right?! Ha!

Now, some comments on your post...

Yes, I agree that we can't control anyone. I was a control freak too! Thought H needed to be the H I thought he should be, thought our R had to be the way I thought it should be, blah, blah, blah! I am trying to practice not judging or trying to control with my other Rs as well, since H is out of the picture for now. I mean, the kids need some control/supervision still, but letting them make more and more decisions for themselves is a way to practice letting go. Also, at work... asking what employees think they should do instead of jumping in with my opinion rt away...

Great idea about pursuing something I always wanted to do... hmmm.. gonna have to think about that one awhile, but I like the idea!

Agree about the prize - if we don't come out of this stronger and better, it would be so sad! I know I want my future to be with H, as you do, but if it doesn't work out that way, we'll still be OK. Better than OK!!

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/29/09 03:36 AM

Hi Orchid! Thx for sharing your experience with your support system. I feel the same way... they want to be supportive, but b/c they want the hurt to stop they aren't necessarily on board with DB'g.

You're right - we have to trust our own judgment... too much advice can be overwhelming!

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/29/09 03:50 AM

Both books sound great! There are lessons to be learned here with our situations, and anything that can help me find more peace sounds good! I also like the Blue like Jazz concept - letting your faith show in your acts, how you model the behavior, vs. talking about faith... really living it out is what matters.

I'll definitely check both books out, thanks!

What's the site or thread? It's about The Gift of Change?

Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Newbie - first post - 05/30/09 12:46 AM

"The GIft of Change" is a book by Marianne Williamson that helped me (and my mom) deal with what appeared to be/felt like HUGE losses in our lives. For me, I did not lose my h after all, but had so much pain of course, and FEAR of never reconciling, never remarrying, lliving on the streets, getting super fat and alcoholic and ...well, you get the picture. (No, NONE of those things were likely but you know how fears can take over sometimes... etc.)

BUT with that book, along with something in me, sort of "clicking" (maybe getting sick and tired of feeling sick and tired??) I began to see the positives and when that happened for real, I CHANGED. Who knows if this is the reason, BUT then H noticed and began his own journey back. But my changes were not tactics for my life IS still different and still changing and if h were to die or leave again, I would more than survive. I love him, and think we're making it and all. BUT I'm very alright being on my own now. I see the advantages and also, I GET that sometimes we have no choice and in THOSE CASES it's insane not to look at the positives.

Oh, Marianne Williamson also wrote a book about handling anger and learning to forgive. I think THAT book (the anger/forgiveness one) is called "Return to Love" and I had that one on my Ipod and took it EVERYWHERE I WALKED AND JOGGED so I could hammer it into my head...or go nuts...it had exercises for forgiveness that were helpful to ME even though not everyone is into that type of stuff. I think we all know in our heads that forgiving is a good idea ....but HOW? I never saw it modelled in my childhood. My parents yelled and retreated...I saw no conflict resolution and I NEVER saw my dad apologize until he was on his death bed. (HE meant it then though, but as for what forgiveness looks like, I just did not know)....I was SO angry and did not know how not to be....so I got help and saw a good T, who gave me the book Return to Love and worked with me AND II learned from those books, and a great workshop I attended awhile back, and from some exercises AND talks with a good pro-M c, and a good friend of mine who forgave HER husband and a male friend of ours who forgave HIS w, and from people HERE....resources exist. We need to know what it looks like to do it. Same for detaching and I see a HUGE connection between forgiveness and detaching...

Anyhow...let me know if you've read anything lately that hits you. (Of course I can still ignore you...but seriously, aside from the pile of books next to my bed, I really do read what smart people find good. There's always going to be some value in it. You know? And the Blue Like Jazz (which was at the bookstore and not at the library yet) book came at the same time I saw someone HERE (diff thread of course) lambasting their LBSer with religion and that was SO on point as to how we misuse God...

Gotta go, take care!
J-

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/30/09 01:21 PM

All three books sound great! I've got "Gift of Change" reserved at the library, and on a wait list for "Blue like Jazz". I'm heading over to pick it up later this morning. Thanks again!

On my nightstand I have "Before the Last Resort" which is helping me with how to pray and what to pray during the S. Also have "Wild at Heart" which helps understand why men have a need for adventure and that God created them just that way. "Eat, Pray, Love" is my just-for-fun book.

I hope you don't ignore me , but would u/s if you did - you are so giving on these boards, along with all the rest... It is an online support group and like many others, I get so much out of journaling here and reading responses, reading other threads, and looking for some positive take-aways.

We really have two choices when it comes to adversity. Hang our heads and get sucked into the pity party, or get up off the floor, continue living and make it a good life.

Yesterday, my son and I rented a wood chipper and mulched a bunch of brush my H had left on the side of the house. I hated looking at the pile and used to complain to H all the time about doing something about it. If there was a single thing I used to nag H about the most, it was the backyard and all the crap laying around. So, it was very empowering to tow the chipper over, turn on this big contraption and chop into tiny pieces all of the brush, and along with it my resentments. Done!

Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Newbie - first post - 05/30/09 10:15 PM

funny about the back yard being an issue. We're in fire country here with tons of beautiful trees but not far from big forests and mountains and canyons that do catch on fire nearly every year....So we are not supposed to have a lot of brush collecting....Yard work was theraeutic for h EXCEPT he'd often NOT finish it. He'd chop a BIG tree down and then ooops, run out of time for the rest of it and then he'd be gone and I'd stare at a huge tree on the lawn FOR MONTHS b/c on the weekends when he was home he was not in the mood to chop up a tree... until I had to pay someone to chop it up and haul it away and USUALLY h would complain about the expense....seriously! Have had same problem now with the corner of the yard which is hungrily waiting an ember so it can explode in fury for being ignored too long...

but (sigh) h is with his mom and yeah, she's getting closer to death by the week. Can't beaOTCH about that now. Soooo YOUR IDEA about the chipper thing is sounding really good. Need to go read up on it. What do I really need to rent or borrow to do it, etc.

Yeah I read Wild at Heart too, and read a book called "Before the Last Goodbye" I think. Might be what you are reading?? Anyhow, take care and in TIME, your h will regret this. But that does not mean he'll be or want to be the man you need. Just that I KNOW there is no way the course of action he is engaged in now, is a good one. Oh well.

BACK TO YOU....
(( ))
j-

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 05/31/09 02:16 PM

Unfinished projects really drove me crazy... nag, nag, nag. Now I'm determined to finish them myself; not to send any kind of message to H but rather b/c I should have take some responsibility for the situation myself and I'll be happier when it's completed. Yeah, the chipper seemed intimidating but the rental place explained how it all worked and it was actually fun!

Had a good day yesterday... after being productive for several days, I just hung out with my friends at their place. The hubby is the one that works with H. Got more info than I wanted about H's behavior at work and the discomfort most of the guys feel being around H now. I guess H is blowing off all responsibility at work, hiding in the back or at the computer, spending money he doesn't have, and then the last-min vacation to Cali with OW. Seems to be MLC behavior but there's nothing I can do about that.

Told my friends I'm sure he'll come back around to his normal self at some point, but I am just moving ahead with my life now. Feel sad for H really... he has damaged so many R's with his choices - friends, our M, the kids...

So, enough about H. Back to me.. haha! Went to a girl's night party last night with some women from work I don't normally socialize with. This was part of my "yes, man" mentality - accept new invitations even if it's out of my comfort zone. Margaritas, mango sangria (yum!) and oodles of desserts. It was fun to just talk and laugh and I didn't get home until midnight. I'm going to church soon and then more yardwork today before heading back to work tmrw.

I hope anyone reading along has a wonderful Sunday. It's a beautiful weekend day in CO for a change and I'm going to make the most of it!

Posted By: kara Re: Newbie - first post - 05/31/09 02:26 PM

Hi

You sound like you are in a good place!

You know I was thinking about what you said earlier about Cali and H going with OW. I was thinking of places that I wanted to see with H. I thought what if this really doesn't work out? I felt sad at the thought that we would never get to realize those dreams. Then I realized, these countries aren't going anywhere. And for you Cali isn't going anywhere. So we can still visit them at some point if we desire. I know if we had to do it without them it wouldn't be the same but the point is we can still do the things we dreamed of. Just in a different way.

Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Newbie - first post - 05/31/09 05:06 PM

All great points Ladies....such insights. Oh, and unless "the big one" comes and drops California off the face of the map, I'll still be here too and we can have a small DBers' convention of sorts. I don't know what to make of the trips/activities they're suddenly willing to do but I read about that A LOT here.
Does reek more of the MLC stuff. So does the damage being done to the other R"s of his. I read somewhere that you know a person is wrong for you if they dont' bring out your best (b/c maybe they're insecure or threatened or somehow hold you back, etc.) so when I hear of these A's that actually damage the OTHER parts of the WAS's life, I have to think, "What a mistake!" It's NOT "the love of his life" at all. It's a disaster he's blind to.
And you can't get his eyes to see that. Only he can. BACK TO YOU....

No, back to ME and MY questions.....Mtn, since you have now FORCED me to wake up and take some responsibility for my yard, which I was previously going to keep mentally nagging H about....then YOU have to give me a few tips...so tell me now, what "equipment" can I rent or buy or whatever, to get thru my Jumanji like jungle section of the yard.

If money were no object I'd hire large men with machetes but money IS an object. You are right also when you say instead of me staring/fuming at H's mess (he gets here in late June AND his mom is close to death, so I can't just wait for him to come home and then say, "GO DO YARD WORK!")

Can't I rent/buy one of those super duper mulching lawnmower things like what the bad corporations do in the Amazon when they want to stop the "reforestation"? Only smaller? I need a DIY class. Last week I had a stopped up toilet and YES I went out and bought "a snake" , and used the heck out of it and still, no dice. Totally useless as far as I could tell. SO I called NOT a plumber but a "rota rrooter" guy who ONLY unclogs- and he came out to the house ($75 on a Sunday) and in 5 minutes or less, had it working. I said, "What's the diff between your snake and mine?" HE said, (I SWEAR) "My snake is bigger and goes in farther, and I know what to do with it when it's in...." How many guys can say that with a straight face and mean every word??

Talk to you soon, thanks for the good point about taking some responsibility for stuff H did, right or wrong, it has been there a LONG time and I need to handle it now....darn, SO MUCH EASIER TO STARE AT THEIR MESS AND KEEP BLAMING...hmm, wait, no! It's NOT that easy. It'd be easiert to fix it myself and then brag about it....EXCELLENT POINTS!

Sorry about the sudden trips your guys are now taking. I believe at least once while there, that it crosses their mind that "Mtn/Kara would have liked this..." I really believe that. But the guilt of that thought will chase it out of the mind fast....but I KNOW if you've spoken of visiting a place before but "could not go" and NOW he can go...yes I think they remember that. With regret and shame, but most WAS's don't handle guilt of shame well at all.
IF they did, we'd all approach things way differently.

I think I told you about that first trip to Italy I took our kids on( w/o H b/c he was in the tundra, and it was our 25th anniversary), you might start putting some money away (I mean like $20 a pop) but it does add up faster than you think. For every pizza NOT ordered, I'd put $25 away, and for a medical conf I didn't attend with h, or rent TWO hotel rooms b/c of bringing the kdis, I'd put in a chunk MORE $$...and in less than a year, I went with the kids to Florence and Rome and it was good for me and the kids in multiple ways...and yes, H noticed. But who cares? WE HAD A BLAST...
And yeah, just a few weeks ago, ALL of us just went on a trip to Europe for d20's show--she was there a semester for theater and gave us THE perfect excuse for going, so why not keep on going and see some more? So then we went on to see other countries, and h's brother took care of the mil while we were away, and we ALL had a really good time. SOoooooo who knows what the future holds? I doubt that the trip we just took, would have happened that way if I had not taken the kids on the earlier trip and "proved" we didn't need h to come along for US to have fun...anything like that possible for you?

Regardless, Ladies, keep on doing what you are doing b/c you are doing so well and people need to see, that even if "things don't work out, (meaning reconciliation) that in the end, THINGS DO WORK OUT"...make sense?

(( j ))

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/01/09 02:11 AM

Mexico! I thought about it this afternoon while I was working outside... and a Mexican beach was a place that H always said he'd take me after ski season so we could wiggle our toes in the sand and do as much or as little as we wanted. Well, Kara, you are so RIGHT! I can still go and the kids and I will have a great time. So, 25, starting today I'll sock away a little cash each time I don't go out to eat, etc. and we'll create a Mexico fund for next summer after my S graduates from HS.

My family (18 of us) went to Playa del Carmen when my kids were much younger, and I'd love to go back. So, that's the plan!

I love that idea!!

Posted By: kara Re: Newbie - first post - 06/01/09 02:30 AM

I am planning a trip for December this year. Was supposed to be going with H but what the hey? I already have two friends who are interested in going.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/01/09 02:49 AM

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Last week I had a stopped up toilet and YES I went out and bought "a snake" , and used the heck out of it and still, no dice. Totally useless as far as I could tell. SO I called NOT a plumber but a "rota rooter" guy who ONLY unclogs- and he came out to the house ($75 on a Sunday) and in 5 minutes or less, had it working. I said, "What's the diff between your snake and mine?" HE said, (I SWEAR) "My snake is bigger and goes in farther, and I know what to do with it when it's in...." How many guys can say that with a straight face and mean every word??

Haha!! That the funniest thing I heard in weeks!!!

Cali would also be fun! And Europe... I'm so envious! I love that you went with your kids and w/out H... and it sounds like it got his attention, but that wasn't really the point was it? Way to pick yourself up despite the fact it was your 25th Anniversary, and plan a memorable trip for your family. It also sounds like your most recent trip was exciting! How fun for your D to study theater overseas! That's awesome!

My two sisters and I went to Europe 11 years ago now to meet my niece in Paris and bring her back to the states from Africa where my brother was a missionary. She was ready for HS and came back to the US to finish up. So, we met her in Paris and spent a week touring around France, and then a week in the Swiss Alps hiking around. It would be great to re-create that trip with my sisters... maybe after the kids are out of the house. For now, I'll set my sights on a beach in the Mexican Riviera.

So, the jungle you call your yard...! I'd suggest a powerful weed wacker first, then mow over it. And yes, the rental places should have a heavy duty mower . If it's a really big job, go over to a power-equipment rental place and just explain what your challenge is and see what they suggest. Won't that be a nice gift to your H upon his return... one less thing for him to worry about during the decline of his momma. Good thinking!

Lastly, about H's and MLC... it is a disaster and the one in the crisis is the only person that can pull themselves out. I guess I find it somehow easier to be patient and empathize thinking of it in these terms. Just have to keep on taking care of things here, and working on my shortcomings & opportunities, and we'll see what happens.

I'm still very hopeful, I will admit, that H will wake up sooner rather than later. I know that God is in control. I pray he's watching over H and that if it's meant to be, H and I will get a second chance. That is out of my hands though, so I just keep on moving ahead. One foot in front of the other...

I'm reminded of a line in Sleepless in Seattle when Sam is on the phone with the radio therapist and discussing how to continue on with life:

Quote:

Well, I'm gonna get out of bed every morning... breath in and out all day long. Then, after a while I won't have to remind myself to get out of bed every morning and breath in and out... and, then after a while, I won't have to think about how I had it great and perfect for a while.

OK, well it wasn't perfect... but it was pretty good and I'd love the chance to make it as wonderful as it could be.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/01/09 03:11 AM

Perfect, Kara! Good for you!! A girls trip will be awesome for you!

Posted By: babymama Re: Newbie - first post - 06/01/09 03:38 AM

Originally Posted By: mnt_dreams
This afternoon, I read my new novel "Eat, Pray, Love" out on the porch with a cold beer and just enjoyed relaxing in the sun, with a gentle breeze blowing. It's a good book so far... the main character is a lady going thru a D, and there's some good insight into the WAS and later the desperation many of us can identify with as we try to "save" our Rs. I'm only abt 30 pages in.

mnt...I read this book, and I thought it was great! Let me know what you think of it when you are done...

Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Newbie - first post - 06/01/09 08:15 AM

almost bought that book today but got the CD book called "Advancing Your Spirit" with Wayne Dyer and Marianne Williamson for my jog/walks and the Eat Pray and Love was not on cd...next trip.

Small trips are cool too. The first Christmas when H rushed back to work the 27th of December, back to his heroes and his/their JOB...I took the kids skiing to a place 2 hours away. It was good b/c I had not taken them anywhere overnight without him before...and we got stuck in the snow and had chains SOMEWHERE in the car, and I felt stupidly helpless as did s19 then, and it got stuck in a blizzard and I was kind of freaking out looking for the f- cabin I had rented for 4 days -and we were driving in the dark without street lights and we were searching for over 3 hours!! and could not find the dang place...and THEN the car slid on the ice and got totally stuck in the snow in God knows where, so we went up to a house to ask where the hell the place was or if we could use a landline since our cell was not working in the mountains but the house we got stuck in front of, WAS THE CABIN WE HAD RENTED I SWEAR...It was so weirdly coincidental my faith questioning son had to admit..."That was crazy Lucky" and I said, Thanks for the MIRACLE God!"

Had a blast. Short fun trip with lots of playing cards and watching films at night and skiing during the day.
That trip gave me the confidence for the big one in 06, and I promised myself I would not be "alone" for that day, and WOULD be celebrating the M's achievements, which was at the very least, 3 great people in my life.and it was such an empowering trip AND btw, PLANNING IT WAS HUGELY FUN WITH THE KIDS (like foreplay for ml I guess) as d20 (then 16) and I would read together about Italy and I could tell she needed that "hope" for fun and getting out of the funk h's leaving put us in.... I wish more had been done this time but h was overloaded and kids were not all here but it worked well enough as YOURS TRULY IS THE PLANNER, and somehow we flew in from 3 diff cities, met in NYC and went together to see the shows in Bonn, and then continue on...But the past trip OH YES H noticed big time, I learned later. He resented it at first, but was ashamed too. So this trip was a bit of a get even in a good way, and now HE can join in the talks and memories and be a part of them too. We only went places we had not gone before and I understood that. H mentioned to me "Next trip let's just go the two of us" which was pretty cool to say and hear....So yeah it was really very nice but NO, I would NOT have predicted this past trip WITH H, if you had asked me 3 years ago...I thought that would never happen and so I took the trip and you are right. It was sooo NOT a tactic.

It was ME doing something I wanted and needed and cannot explain another way. Best money I ever spent too. (Besides, I figured if I had to "borrow" then half the debt would be h's and I may as well get the trip on a discount!!)
Hey, wait, that MIGHT be something your guys are thinking too....

Seriously, if anything is worth borrowing for ( nothing insane) then something that helps you heal AND yields great memories and proves you can LIVE without the h and still be a family AND have FUN and laugh really hard and NOT THINK OF THEM seems like a good investment b/c nothing in Rome reminded me of H, trust me......so geez...wacky things Do happen.

So we just went to Germany, Budapest (long story but that place is cheap, exotic and REALLY Stunning in it's natural beauty and history and architecture and cool) and finally VENICE with its' old laid back feel to it and it's just as beautiful in its own way. Both cities should be seen. We wanted to see Budapest anyhow but since it was so cheap compared to Venice, it kind of "evened" out the costs of seeing Venice, if you know what I mean. We have a family of 5 after all. Usually means two hotel rooms and lots of restaurants plus activities....But the airfares last month were literally HALF what I paid in '06, and the apartments (way cheaper than two hotel rooms AND they have kitchens to eat SOME meals in) were from $150 to $275 a night, for ALL of us...including Venice. Beats getting two hotel rooms (without kitchens or privacy) each...so maybe start with a ski or BEACH TYPE trip (MTN Enough of the snow for what's his name, you go somewhere warm my friend, F the snow for now...(meow!! I'm retracting my cat like claws now....)

Yeah, glad you enjoyed the rota rooter guy statement. Here's my other "I'm Learning the male's world of plumbing stuff" lingo....AN Australian contractor (maybe it's diff there) who stared at the damage from the water heater breaking and then "raining on my downstairs" rec room...He saw the "seams" and all and said, "You sure will need a lot of caulk" And I nodded silently not able to say a word (like, "Yeah I know I do, but h is gone...") but then he said that b/c the marble/granite was so dark, " you can have any color caulk you want..."
On that note.
Gotta sleep!
(( J- ))

Posted By: orchid01 Re: Newbie - first post - 06/01/09 01:08 PM

Hi mnt-dreams,

I thought it was so KICK A** to rent a chipper & just chip away!!! I am feeling so anxious about renting a 16 ft truck in driving it 900 miles! But reading ur backyard story totally made me feel excited! It's going to be a total adventure! & I will have accomplished the thing that I would have never done before!

So I just wanted to say "WOW"!

I love that trips are being planned without H! We were finally going to start taking vacations! A friend of mine asked if I wanted to take a trip with her in November & I said I would see....cuz I wanted to keep my vacation time open in case H comes back. Ohhhh that just sounded pathetic!

You are doing great being so proactive with ur life!

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/02/09 06:16 AM

Thanks for the encouragements. Today was one of those days that H was on my brain... which just bums me out lately. The day started off well enough, but then I went to see my C. Hadn't been in almost a month and she was wondering what happened to me. Need to remember to be consistent, and schedule the next appt before I leave the office.

We talked a lot about events, the lunch meeting, moving tools out, how I reorganized the garage and chipped the wood (she liked that!) and H's behavior lately. We got into a discussion about H's family HX and wondering if H might be bi-polar. His dad and sister are, and frequently it comes to a head in the early 30's. With his impulsiveness, depression, unusual decisions, etc. she wondered if he might be BP as well. We both agreed there's nothing I can do about it, if that's the case for H. Part of me wants to reach out to him or a family mbr re: the possibility, but a MUCH BIGGER part of me knows that's not my place rt now and any efforts in that regard would probably back fire on me. Stay detached, work on myself. Period.

Whether it's an early MLC, a disorder like BP or just a full-fledged A, H is the only one that control his actions. And right now, he just doesn't care. At some point, he may come out of his fog and we'll see where we are at that point. Until then, I just keep truckin' along.

Y'know, I'm kinda irritated I spent an hour with C talking about H. I guess we didn't have to, but that's the way the conversation went, and I really don't want to waste more time on what might be going on with him. Whatever it is, I have to let go and leave this in God's hands. I'm doing pretty well with my GAL activities and moving ahead, and spending time analyzing H seems futile.

Posted By: goingtofixME Re: Newbie - first post - 06/02/09 08:09 AM

Our situations are so very similar. I have wanted to journal for a while and believe I need to restart again. Thanks for your posts as they are proving to be very helpful to me!

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/03/09 05:10 AM

Journaling is important - gets the feelings down on the page and it's interesting to read back at where we started and how we're coming along. I looked for your sitch, ME, but didn't find it. Time to give us an update maybe?

Posted By: goingtofixME Re: Newbie - first post - 06/03/09 06:14 AM

Nothing much to update mnt. Haven't heard a word from him. I haven't contacted him since the last email I sent apologizing for freaking out on him when I found out he was having an EA/PA? with my now ex best friend (May 9th). I wasn't apologizing for being upset. I was apologizing for the venom that spewed from my mouth. I don't get mad often because when I do I go for the jugular and can hurt you with what I know is your weakness. It's not something I am particularly proud of and it is why I keep my temper in check for the most part. I stopped checking on his MSN profile and his youtube account as it felt like borderline stalking and it wasn't helping me to detach. I am working out more and doing more for myself and my children. I am working. I have plans to do some serious summer cleaning as well as some plans for some summer fun. Thanks for looking for my sitch. I took it out of my signature because there really isn't anything to update. I will start journaling again. I am also going to start keeping up with things on my blog. I joined the facebook group for divorce busting.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/03/09 12:11 PM

I think you're doing well. Too bad you haven't heard from H, I can relate to that, but you are taking good care of yourself and your children. Do journal or use your blog to do the same, because you are growing... you are detaching by not checking his accounts, and being aware of your temper and how you react is important for your personal growth.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/05/09 05:55 AM

Journaling...

It's been a quiet week so far. Hs is back from his vacation with OW, but he still hasn't talked to me about anything... no idea if they are really seeing each other or not, if the Jarads bill means it's serious and he got her something (ring?), if he ever plans to talk to the kids about things, if he even thinks about us or feels sad or unsure...

The only communication is about bills and always via text. He asked again today about the title for his old truck. I have found it, but part of me doesn't want to cooperate... a bigger part knows it's the right thing to do, and turning over the title doesn't change anything.

Ran today at the Y which felt good. Call from a mutual friend of ours. Asked me to go to a bbq this weekend and rafting with him and other friends in two weeks. I hope to do both. Not sure but get the feeling he may be interested in me. I'm not but figure it'd be fun, and maybe he'll have some insight into H's current mindset.

Also saw my family tonight at a bbq. I am picking up vibes that most of them are not hopeful H will ever come around. They are all Christians and pray for us, but just want me to stop hurting I guess. I need to limit the discussions, b/c like talking abt the Jareds bill just makes me obsess and I don't want to. SMW mentioned on another thread that I should try to surround myself with positive supporters - church, etc. Everyone here has been wonderful as well. I wish everyone thought about saving M's like we do! And we may not save the marriage in the end, but we save ourselves with our healthier attitudes and taking care of ourselves.

I got some extra tools from my BIL for my garage - yea! Little things like a wrench and pliers make me happy!

Listened to my mom (77 yo) play the piano tonight. Felt like I was 10 again, just hearing the classical pieces, totally relaxed and not a care in the world. Not much time left with either of my parents so it was nice to just be in that moment and appreciate it fully.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/07/09 05:34 AM

H is coming by the house tmrw. Wants the title for his old truck. I was proud of myself for texting him back that I thought we should split the sale price - no response to that message yet. I thought about not being a doormat and he was probably just hoping I wouldn't ask, so I decided to just ask and I could use the money.

So, we'll see how it goes tmrw. The kids will be here and they haven't seen their stepdad for months. H still hasn't talked to them about his decision to separate, etc. Doubt much will happen in the morning b/c I think he's just stopping by for his bills and the title.

I'll be sure to look cute and be happy and glad to see him, but reserved as well.

I think one of the hardest parts of this limbo-land is that we are physically separated. Very few opportunities to see each other or talk about things... so I have to make every encounter count, without acting like it's a big deal! ugh!

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/07/09 06:40 AM

I told the kids H was coming by tmrw and suggested if they could be nice or friendly, it might ease any tension. My S seemed agreeable, but my D clearly is still angry. She said she didn't owe him friendly or nice... (and she's one of the sweetest 16 yo girls you'd ever meet). I had to validate that she has every right to be upset and it's up to her how she handles things with him tmrw. May be a non-issue if he's in and out in 5 mins. But with so little interaction btw the two of us, or the kids and H, tmrw seems like a big deal.

I don't know what else to do about her anger, other than supporting her right to be upset.

I was thinking maybe my kids and I should have a regular time to just check in and see how everyone's doing... I've been trying to protect them, but not talking about what's going on isn't working well with these teenagers... I think I need some ideas!

Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Newbie - first post - 06/08/09 01:14 AM

How'd today go?

As for "scheduled check in meetings"...um, let them have an opportunity one on one to tell you how they feel and leave it open ended as in, "well if not now, whenever you feel like talking let me know"....and eventually they will probably open up IF they think you can handle it. Know what I mean? I just think something about scheduling it doesn't sound like a teenager way of approaching it. But that's maybe just my kids. Car rides and bed time are of course, when you get stuff sprung on you so be prepared. The night before D20 left for Europe we were driving to get something for the trip at the last minute, she gave me the "Why should I try with dad? YOU are recon and all but he chose to not to be part of MY life so...etc" and she was totally entitled to feel that way as what she said IS true, in effect. But he wants back into her heart and she wants to want to let him back in, if you know what I mean. So the trip was a good good thing.

But then yesterday When I mentioned to d20 the 'adjustment period" it'll take when he gets here from his mom's (mil has brain tumors now, from the lung cancer so....) and the d's and I have been on our own here a long time, d20 said, "What's new? His long hours and being gone always meant we'd have to "ADJUST to him..." and that's TRUE, unfortunately. See, the whole reconciling is just a big step but it's not the top of the stairs by any means. Yi yi yi. (SIGH)

But like I said, the timing of the questions is amazing, the car rides, the bed times... LIke as you are shutting out their light to say good night and the "one last question" is something like "so why do you believe in God?" I recall that question and thinking, "man if that is a bed time delay tactic it's brilliant!"

Oh, I took the SERIOUS lawm mower mulcher thing that also chops down trees and it worked! I have "deforested the Amazon like a nasty corporation" and have a lawn now. Probably less of a fire hazard too. Yay, ME!

So MTN, back to YOU!!

j-

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/08/09 02:50 AM

H came by this morning very quickly and got the title and mail. Think he noticed I was still wearing my ring. Asked S17 how he is feeling and he said "whatever, I don't really care". D16 didn't even come out to say hi.

Got a text tonight from H that we need to talk some night this week. Told him I was busy and asked what's up. He said he didn't really want to text about it and to let him know when I have time.

I'm crying as I type this... I'm sure in my heart that he wants to admit to seeing OW and will want me to move on. I don't think I can handle seeing him face to face and hearing the awful truth. If it's not the OW, what else could it be that's so serious?

I don't think I can act like I'm doing okay and hear these things... Could I ask him to call me? Or do I need to wait until I'm stronger and can see him? I don't even know what to say... I thought I was doing ok but I don't want to know what I think I know in my heart. This hurts so much.

Posted By: sophia Re: Newbie - first post - 06/08/09 03:17 AM

Hi mnt_dreams,

My heart goes out to you. Do whatever makes YOU the most comfortable. If you think you'd rather talk on the phone, then you have that right. If you'd rather just email him and ask him what it's about, then do that. And if you want more time before you have this talk, take all the time you need. Treat yourself with dignity and he will respect that.

You are a strong woman and you WILL get through this even stronger no matter what the outcome.

Me 40
WAH 43
T 4years
M 9 1/2 months
sep. 3 weeks
stepson 9

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/08/09 03:40 AM

Thanks for the response!

I know I'd be more comfortable over the phone, but as I think through this, that would make it too easy for him. He needs to do it face to face. I may not keep it together, but I won't beg or plead. I guess I'll try to practice what I've been learning on this site... validate, tell him I disagree that we can't work out, but understand how he feels. Any effective phrases that anyone wants to throw out here would be wonderful!

I was pleasant this morning... we made eye contact, and for a moment it was just like we used to look at each other. Now he's wanting to have 'the talk'. You're right though, MT, I will come out the other side stronger. As I read somewhere else today, our WAS are on a journey, but we are too... left behind but not stuck unless we choose to be. I choose to carry on.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/08/09 04:42 AM

Hi 25 -

Thanks for the great ideas with the teens... Yes, car rides work well for us too, and sometimes bedtime. I'll give that one a try. I agree my kids wouldn't like it scheduled either... Thanks for your advice - I plan to follow it. Your D20 has had a tough time with her D gone... I hope they can continue rebuilding their R. Life is too short to stay angry for long.

So, you will see my posts about the encounter today. Very short but I thought maybe there was a connection. Probably just guilt and now he wants to clear his conscience.

Back to you... WAY TO GO with the Amazon! Very nicely done! Doesn't it feel awesome to accomplish some of those chores that have just been sitting around waiting for someone to do something about it. And rather than waiting, you took charge. Nice!

I did have a good weekend. My son's basketball team finished 3rd in a Denver-area tournament against some tough varsity clubs. So that was nice, and a good distraction. I've got my C appt tmrw and she may actually see me cry tmrw. She's been commenting how strong I am and at peace... well, the facade is falling off and it's time to dig deep and figure out what I'm so afraid of. He already left me. I know I can survive without him. I know I can and will take good care of my children. So, what am I so worried about... rejection, having a door closed forever, what?! Maybe she can help me role play possible scenarios and how to respond.

I just really want to keep it together but the tears just come sometimes...

Posted By: antlers Re: Newbie - first post - 06/08/09 03:47 PM

Originally Posted By: mnt_dreams

He already left me. I know I can survive without him. I know I can and will take good care of my children. So, what am I so worried about... rejection, having a door closed forever, what?!

The rejection hurts bad! The potential loss of all of your hopes and dreams for your future with your spouse hurts big time too! I understand. They've left, and we know we will survive without them, if it turns out that way. We will continue to love our kids and care for them. But it still hurts...bad!

Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Newbie - first post - 06/08/09 06:48 PM

Yes it sucks. But the things is, if he SAYS "it's over" what does it really change? It lessens the chances of a recon but it does not eliminate them. It probably will free you up some to move forward more. But who knows the future? Could he possibly say, "Hey I'm marrying OW"? Yes he could and that will hurt a great deal. I'd have to make him say it in person if it were me, BUT I'm not you.

Say very little too. I mean sometimes a "look" can say it all without making you "wrong to say it" b/c you didn't say "it"...kwim?

Don't say something you'll regret. You can say if it IS worst case scenario, WHILE CALM, "I'm sorry you are making this choice. I'd do things differently if I could do them over, but I can honestly say I've loved you more deeply than you'll ever know, and that's a lot to lose. But I Hope you find what you're looking for..."

and leave it at that. Do attend to details about contact with the kids for they feel very hurt and it IS a rejection of them due NOT to his choice of OW so much as HIS absence!! You could be the worst woman in the world but what excuse does he have for dropping off the face of the earth from THEM? Be calm about it and say you won't stand in the way of their R and you encourage it, hope for it, and frankly, he should step up to the plate on that front. He knew you had kids when he married you and said he'd be their dad/stepdad so what's up with that? (BE CALM!! Encouraging the R's, not demanding....a fine line indeed...)

Now, when it comes to money and property, you let the L"s handle that as much as possible. It's not going to be pretty. So let them do the ugly stuff so you are not associated with it. IF by chance you have one of those great situations in which you both agree on all things, FINE get it in writing and skip the L' s EXCEPT TO HAVE ONE LOOK AT ANYTHING BEFORE YOU SIGN IT...EVEN IF YOU PAY FOR 2 HOURS OF THEIR TIME, YOU'RE CRAZY NOT TO...

And let HIM tell the kids something for God's sake. Finally he wants to speak in person! Okay, LISTEN. Let him talk. Don't let him the M revise too much but validate (else you'll confirm those negative justifications), you want him to see a woman SO dignified and confident and understanding WHILE hurting, that he's gotta wonder if he's making the right choice....like our s23 said, when he broke up with his gf recently and she cried but said, "No hard feelings you are such a great guy, I love you, wish you the best, etc" and HE CRIED and asked me if I thought he'd done the right thing. It got to him. FWIW. Of course I have a nice son and he's only 23 (today!)

You can say you "don't recall things that way" and you are "sorry he does" if he revises a lot negatively, but don't argue. And again, I'm just saying this stuff IF it is the worst thing that he tells you. It might not be.

He could ask if there's a chance for a recon....but be ready for the worst okay? The Jared thing and all the rest....be ready. Be strong as you know you are.

HUGS HUGS HUGS....damn I feel bad for you. He's an idiot.

((( j )))

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/09/09 01:53 AM

Quote:
Don't say something you'll regret. You can say if it IS worst case scenario, WHILE CALM, "I'm sorry you are making this choice. I'd do things differently if I could do them over, but I can honestly say I've loved you more deeply than you'll ever know, and that's a lot to lose. But I Hope you find what you're looking for..."

Thanks - that helps and it's true. I can't pretend anymore that I'm just fine b/c I'm not. He is an idiot and we didn't deserve this. Nothing was so bad that he needed to just abandon us.

Quote:
Do attend to details about contact with the kids for they feel very hurt and it IS a rejection of them due NOT to his choice of OW so much as HIS absence!! You could be the worst woman in the world but what excuse does he have for dropping off the face of the earth from THEM? Be calm about it and say you won't stand in the way of their R and you encourage it, hope for it, and frankly, he should step up to the plate on that front. He knew you had kids when he married you and said he'd be their dad/stepdad so what's up with that? (BE CALM!! Encouraging the R's, not demanding....a fine line indeed...)

I think my goal here is to advocate for them without it sounding like a guilt trip (which my BF used on him). There really is no excuse for not talking to them, but what he's said is that he wanted to talk to them but didn't know what to say. Lame. Yes, he knew I came with kids and he loved us all so deeply. Kind and generous to a fault. He was a great role model and friend to them... suddenly it's all been seemingly forgotten.

Quote:
Finally he wants to speak in person! Okay, LISTEN. Let him talk. Don't let him the M revise too much but validate (else you'll confirm those negative justifications), you want him to see a woman SO dignified and confident and understanding WHILE hurting, that he's gotta wonder if he's making the right choice...

Your son sounds very sweet - you raised him well. Yes, I do see the chance to talk face to face as a bright spot. I'll do my very best to project understanding and control, yet I am hurting and I think he needs to know that he's hurt me and hurt the kids.

Yes, I agree - I am feeling like it's the worst possible outcome and my mind is working overtime (since 3am this morning) on those scenarios, but will hope for the best.

Thanks to you and Antlers for your replies! I was so anxious to come home tonight and log in to check! Haha! I saw my IC today. She validated much of this... ok to be hurting, be real but not a begging, whimpering fool... I'm hurt but I'll get along okay. She asked me to make sure I do something fun this week... I couldn't name anything specifically I'd done to have fun so that's probably part of my funk.

I haven't contacted H back again to set up a time for the meeting. Thinking maybe Wed night... that'll give me some time to prepare and I don't want to be too quick to get together with H just yet. Also don't want to carry it out until the weekend.

Posted By: Tundra277 Re: Newbie - first post - 06/09/09 02:08 AM

Long time lurker here following your sitch. I am sensing that I am going to be getting the same kinda news here and have had a WAW for almost three months now. I know it hurts, and you have heard this before, but take care of you and your kids and take it one day at a time.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/09/09 02:25 AM

Thx Tundra... Lurk no more! Start a thread and tell us what's going on so we can try to offer mutual support. Or just respond here and fill me in.

3 months is an eternity, isn't it? And yet, it may go on for much, much longer so we have to pace ourselves. Thanks for the reminder... it is one day at a time and today is much better than I was feeling last night. Thanks!

Posted By: Tundra277 Re: Newbie - first post - 06/09/09 01:58 PM

I don't want to hijack your thread and I am not ready to start my own yet.

My story in short is married 12 years, S/11, D/9, D/6 and D/19 from first marrige. 11/07 was the ILYBNILWY speech and MC shortly there after. I thought things were better till Feb of this year when I got the "its over" speech when she started up with her job again for the season and she took her ring off. Since then still in same house, with threats of "I am moving out" weekly.

WAW works long hours to avoid me and the kids and I am a stay at home dad. MC over the last couple of months has helped, until last week in counseling she once again says I don't love you anymore and want out. I am trying my best to apply DR and DB principals with some success, but I feel like and MC agrees that no matter what I do or don't do WAW is gone.

This breaks my heart and that is why all I can do is take it one day at a time.

Thanks for the encouragment mnt about reponding,and letting me post here.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/10/09 12:17 AM

I'm glad you posted your story and I'm sorry you're in this situation. I honestly don't know if it's easier if the WAS is still in the house or not. Pros and cons I guess, but I think as long as your W is there, you have an opportunity that I didn't to really show her you're getting on with your life (GAL) and even though you're not happy with her choices, you're going to be OK. Act 'as if', do those 180's. Since you're the SAH dad, I'm sure you need some time away from home to yourself. Make plans to do the things you used to enjoy and may have given up. Reconnect with old friends. Try something new.

Even though the MC thinks it's over, it doesn't mean it is. What's in your heart? Do you want to keep fighting for your M? If so, pay no mind to the nay-sayers and think positive thoughts and become the guy that only a fool would leave!

Oh, and although my H left us, from what I've read if your wife tries to get you to move out, don't do it. She can leave if she's determined, and you can't control her actions. But if you don't want the S or D, then don't leave if you can help it!

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/10/09 05:03 AM

Journaling...

meeting H somewhere after work tmrw. At this particular moment, I'm really irritated! It's like he's kicked me to the ground by leaving, and now he says we 'need to meet'. What, to kick me when I'm down!! Ugh! Just expressing the emotion I'm feeling at the moment. And I keep crying today! I don't even now what he's going to say! Crazy!!

So, we'll see how it goes tmrw. Goals:

Stay as calm as possible
Listen
Validate
Let myself be REAL
Say MUCH less than H - really hear him

Posted By: MrBond Re: Newbie - first post - 06/10/09 09:07 AM

Tundra 277.

Take what you just posted and start your own thread. As you'll find out from others here, it's not over till it's over. There's still hope if you believe.

Posted By: MrBond Re: Newbie - first post - 06/10/09 09:12 AM

mnt_dreams,

Hang tough during the talk. Is there a way that you could say what it's about? I know he said he didn't want to do it over texting, but he can't expect you to sit there on pins and needles, especially if you are not in the right frame of mind to confront him right now.

If you can't look him in the eye and just validate what he says and stand strong, then you're not ready.

If you do intend to go through with the meeting, then just remember this. You are the strong one here. You are the one who stood up in the face of uncertainty and faced the unknown while he ran away with his tail between his legs. Go with no fear knowing that you are like the mother wolf that is guarding her children and her home.

What your H decides to do is his decision NOT yours. Sometimes it helps to imagine your H as the crazy homeless guy on the street corner just talking nonsense. I don't think he's going to bring up any reasons that you hadn't heard already.

Pray for the best and expect the worst. But none of it takes away who you are. Gain your confidence back and dig in your heels. You can do it.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/10/09 12:05 PM

I think I'm ready.

While I don't know what he wants to talk about, I realized last night that I absolutely have to hear what he wants to say. If we eventually reconcile, I have to listen, validate and be strong. If we never reconcile, hearing what's on his mind is also important for my recovery and moving on as necessary. Either way, he wants to talk so I will listen.

Thanks, Stuck, for the great suggestions on the meeting. A crazy homeless guy... I love that! If I were talking with one, I'd nod my head, listen but not argue b/c it wouldn't do any good. I'll imagine that tonight along with the mother wolf.

I am taking control over my reality. I'm going to finish raising my teenagers, be good to myself, have fun, be responsible, and end up better than ever. 25 wrote here many pages ago that I need to be the author of my life. How do I want to write the next chapter? What do I want to say about tonight's meeting... it's certainly not that I sobbed the entire time, or got angry or defensive. Hopefully, I'll go into it with a sense of peace, no fear, and know that God is walking in the door with me and will give me the strength I need to listen to my husband and be real.

Posted By: orchid01 Re: Newbie - first post - 06/10/09 01:49 PM

Hi Mnt_dreams,

I just wanted to chime in and wish you a good meeting with H.

I watched this movie "The Holiday" and one line really stayed with me. A guy says to Kate Winslet, "Why are you living as a supporting actress in your own life? Shouldn't you be the Leading Lady in your own life?"

I try to think of myself as the leading lady when I am talking to H now. I can't do it for as long as I would like, but, it is getting better with each practice.

Its all about your frame of mind....now add on the homeless guy image that stuck gave (OH MAN!!! I LOVE THAT & WILL USE THAT!!!!), you will be golden.

I think you have it right....talk less than him , listen openly, validate. And remember your goal tonight is to start being the leading lady of your life! I think you are going to do great! You area sexy, strong, fierce, intelligent, and patient leading lady!

My thoughts will be with you.

Posted By: orchid01 Re: Newbie - first post - 06/10/09 01:51 PM

I meant to say "Your goal tonight is to CONTINUE being the leading lady of your life!"

Posted By: Tundra277 Re: Newbie - first post - 06/10/09 02:43 PM

Stuck,

You are right. I will start my own thread when I am ready. I do have hope and believe that if I continue DB'ing then I will make it through all of this. A little backslide this AM, but still taking it one day at a time.

Mnt,

Be strong and confident. You can make it through the meeting. Prepare for the worst, but hope for the best.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/10/09 11:32 PM

Thanks all.

45 mins until the big 'talk'. I think I've prepared as much as I can. I will probably get caught off guard and hope to just take deep breaths and know I can get through it. I want to be the leading lady... always have since I was Adelaide in 'Guys and Dolls'. Come to think of it, she waited something like 14 years for her man to commit...!

Be Patient. Love. Be kind. Listen.

I'll post later tonight - hope to do you all proud!

Posted By: MrBond Re: Newbie - first post - 06/10/09 11:40 PM

Good luck. Our prayers are with you.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/11/09 05:39 AM

Ok - so it was kinda weird!!

He got upset about the whole i'm movin on with life, etc. but he seeme to get it. we talked about work and fried, et. Seeme ok with me having a GR. hard slad with OW in the pictore.

I miss you.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/11/09 11:07 AM

I don't know what happened with that post? - guess it posted while I was still typing thoughts?
-

So, we had the talk. He came in to the bar, and looked SO good! We talked some about work, kids, family. I asked him a couple ?s about the sprinklers and S17's basketball hoop. Then he told me that he's still planning to move to the mountains in the fall, and is looking for jobs but it's hard to find something that will cover the bills. Just continues looking.

Then he told me that he plans to file for D before he goes. I cry. He said "are you really surprised"? I told him I wasn't really, but it was hard to hear it. He said he tried to tell me after he got back from Taos. I pointed out that was 2 wks after he left me. So, anyway, I got it back together in the bathroom and came back and told him 'I'm sad, the kids are sad, I have loved you since we met and exchanged 'the look' while we were dancing the first night and for me it was love at first sight, and while this hurts very much, I just want you to be happy and I hope you find what you're looking for'.

Then he got a little emotional. He wiped away tears and got glossy eyed several times throughout the talk. That was a big deal for me b/c he hasn't shown any emotion since he left. We talked some more about moving, where he'd like to be. Talked about our best friends and how things have been weird for them. My BF really let him have it early abt the kids, and they haven't talked really since. Told him she cares a lot and maybe they can work on things. Her H is his boss, and was his best man at the wedding. Things have been tense there too and we talked some about that.

I talked about the kids... they miss him but hide it with apathy and anger. He knows he needs to talk to them too but still no commitment on addressing it. It's like he wants to run away from everything and everyone.

So, that was abt it. Nothing about OW, so I didn't bring it up. In his mind I guess he wanted to meet to tell me he was going to file. Or maybe it was to talk about OW but he changed his mind.

I looked great! Haha! I wore my tightest jeans, flip flops and a top. Casual but put together. Cried all my mascara off, but before that looked good if I do say so myself!

Afterwards, I went to my BF's house and then my sister's place. I was strangely thrilled b/c my H showed emotion. Maybe the shell is cracking...

So, that's about it. The reality is he plans to divorce me. That sucks. Or rather, he says he plans to. Maybe it won't happen. I still feel there is hope. I really do.

So, suggestions at this pt? Stay dark? Try something new? It was pretty friendly... maybe I need to reach out a little in a friendly way. Something to think about.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/11/09 11:18 AM

A couple more thoughts...

H asked me more questions about myself this time. He knew from his dad that I ran the 10k and getting out more. He said he was glad to hear that and I needed to do more for myself.

So, I think that shows my emails with FIL have been effective... both maintaining and repairing a R with FIL that is important to me, but also a way of communicating to H while being dark that I am GAL.

I guess maybe he brought that up because it eases his guilt about D - that I'm doing ok and will be alright without him.

Looking at my goals for the evening:

Stay as calm as possible
Listen
Validate
Let myself be REAL
Say MUCH less than H - really hear him

I think I did Ok! Yes, I got upset initially but then I pulled it together and we had a good talk. Long enough for 3 beers for him, 2 for me. I listened well, validated, was real, and let him do most of the talking.

All and all, not a bad night.

Posted By: sophia Re: Newbie - first post - 06/11/09 03:42 PM

Hi mnt_dreams,

I think you held yourself together with class and dignity-great job!

And remember, time is on your side. Just because he says he's going to file for D doesn't mean that he will. Afterall, it's been 4 months and he hasn't filed.

Can you take a trip somewhere that you've never been to right now? Go with your girlfriend or your kids or both, and don't tell your H where you are going. Have fun! Get out of the house for a few days.

The next time he contacts you after you get back from your mysterious getaway, tell him you are thinking about putting your house on the market. When he asks why, just tell him you've been thinking about everything and leave it at that. You will ignite curiosity in him. And he may ask you if you would be interested in moving to the mountains with him.

Hang in there!

Me 40
WAH 43
T 4 years
M 9 1/2 months
stepson 9
H moved out 3 weeks ago
No D filed

Posted By: antlers Re: Newbie - first post - 06/11/09 05:50 PM

Hi mnt_dreams.

I saw an excellent post yesterday on this board, from an insightful person here. It said...

"Why are you living as a supporting actress in your own life? Shouldn't you be the leading lady in your own life?"

Isn't that just plain good?

Another one recently was this...

"What are things you can do to improve yourself and care for your beloved when things seem the darkest?" - Coach

That one really spoke to me!

I hope you have a good day today.. You sure live in a pretty area up there.

Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Newbie - first post - 06/11/09 07:58 PM

MTN,

You did very well and I'm glad he's showing emotion AFTER you said you wished him happiness and did not guilt him OR pursue him.

Please do NOT pursue him at this point. I'd say stay mysterious. HE IS NOTICING...and he's relaxed enough around you he may actually talk with the kids and see what he is missing without the pressure of you thinking he's changing his mind. He'll pull away then , imo. I can't see how detaching hurts you when HE KNOWS you love him. You just told him again and he sees that you were hurt BUT yes you are a good catch and you are moving on...he's not going to say to himself, "Gee maybe I made a mistake BUT now it's too late since she's getting a life..."

If he wants back in, you will know. Keep on GAL and moving forward and being the author of your life. Regardless of what he does/thinks/feels/says/ he IS noticing, no matter the outcome, to some extent, it is working. It's the best you could reaslistically hope for at this point. (Meaning, seeds were planted...so don't pursue. Be interested and interesting...b/c you are a woman only a fool would leave....)

((( j )))

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/12/09 04:51 AM

Thx all. I was pretty nervous beforehand that I wouldn't be able to handle it, but it went pretty well! Reflecting today, I realize that I may very well end up divorced which will stink. But, I know I'll be okay. Strong moments today when I felt very sad about this and taking it very personally. Y'know, thoughts like my H doesn't want to be married to me, what's wrong with me, why doesn't he want to even try & work on the R/M. But, I keep coming back to H's comments and emotions last night. It's progress. Even if we get D, I imagine we'll be friendly. But hopefully it won't happen. If I keep working on myself and give H the space and time he needs, only God knows what could happen!

So, improving myself... as you noted, Antlers, this is very important. I've challenged myself in some ways, but I think I can stretch myself much further. No concrete thoughts on this yet, but I'm thinking about this. Secondly, showing love for my beloved... I guess I'm showing love by respecting his space and needs. Being loving in my communications. But there's more to consider in this area too - without pursuing. Something to chew on!

Ok, 25mlc, I agree - no pursuing, stay mysterious. Do things I enjoy, things we used to do together that I'd giving up, and who knows what can happen. I'm going rafting next weekend which is a big GAL activity for me. Not a commercial trip - just rafting with friends, one of whom is a former guide, so it's safe. I rafted before H and I met, and I took him on a trip early in our R with my friends. I think he admired my adventure side early on.. somewhere along the way I lost that when the kids started needing more time/attention with sports, school, etc. This trip will be with mutual friends so H will hear about it. More importantly, I love being on the river. Especially love overnight trips where we camp along the riverbank and get back in the boats in the morning to float further... it'll be awesome!! Yes, Antlers, Colorado is truly beautiful. I'm so glad to live here!

Tmrw, I'm playing tennis with a friend and having another buddy over for pizza on the grille. So, I'll try to keep busy and keep my PMA going strong.

Quote:
Be interested and interesting...b/c you are a woman only a fool would leave....)

Wow! I don't know if I'm there yet, but I'd agree H is being foolish...! I am a work in progress, but getting stronger by the day. Thank God and this board, and my friends and family for that strength!

Posted By: Tundra277 Re: Newbie - first post - 06/12/09 02:43 PM

Mnt,

That is great to do a river trip. I too used to do a lot of kayaking and rafting along with skiing and also lost it along the way when the kids came along.

Funny how when we become parents our focus is on our children and we somehow "put them first" and forget about taking care of ourselves and then after a few fast years we are here, where the message is GAL and take of me first. I think that after many years of taking care of kids, we lose sight of ourselves and I am struggling to get that back.

Good for you on the river trip and be careful!!! The second week of June is traditionally the peak run off so have fun and make sure the PFD is buckled up tight.

H will hear about it and I can assure you he will be like....Humm, and ponder over what was said and how it went and who you sat with etc....If he asks about it you can answer very short and sweet....It was awsome!

Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Newbie - first post - 06/12/09 04:39 PM

Originally Posted By: mnt_dreams
Thx all. I was pretty nervous beforehand that I wouldn't be able to handle it, but it went pretty well! Reflecting today, I realize that I may very well end up divorced which will stink. But, I know I'll be okay. Strong moments today when I felt very sad about this and taking it very personally. Y'know, thoughts like my H doesn't want to be married to me, what's wrong with me, why doesn't he want to even try & work on the R/M. But, I keep coming back to H's comments and emotions last night. It's progress. Even if we get D, I imagine we'll be friendly. But hopefully it won't happen. If I keep working on myself and give H the space and time he needs, only God knows what could happen!

So, improving myself... as you noted, Antlers, this is very important. I've challenged myself in some ways, but I think I can stretch myself much further. No concrete thoughts on this yet, but I'm thinking about this. Secondly, showing love for my beloved... I guess I'm showing love by respecting his space and needs. Being loving in my communications. But there's more to consider in this area too - without pursuing. Something to chew on!

Ok, 25mlc, I agree - no pursuing, stay mysterious. Do things I enjoy, things we used to do together that I'd giving up, and who knows what can happen. I'm going rafting next weekend which is a big GAL activity for me. Not a commercial trip - just rafting with friends, one of whom is a former guide, so it's safe. I rafted before H and I met, and I took him on a trip early in our R with my friends. I think he admired my adventure side early on.. somewhere along the way I lost that when the kids started needing more time/attention with sports, school, etc. This trip will be with mutual friends so H will hear about it. More importantly, I love being on the river. Especially love overnight trips where we camp along the riverbank and get back in the boats in the morning to float further... it'll be awesome!! Yes, Antlers, Colorado is truly beautiful. I'm so glad to live here!

Tmrw, I'm playing tennis with a friend and having another buddy over for pizza on the grille. So, I'll try to keep busy and keep my PMA going strong.

Quote:
Be interested and interesting...b/c you are a woman only a fool would leave....)

Wow! I don't know if I'm there yet, but I'd agree H is being foolish...! I am a work in progress, but getting stronger by the day. Thank God and this board, and my friends and family for that strength!

I understand all of what you've said here. Just a few "quickies"...yes it feels personal as he**, but b/c of his other choices, like not seeing the kids and other R's in his life suffering, this is likely NOT about you, so you should probably lose the "what's wrong with me? part of this. Besides, you are working on you, so if there are things in you that needed changing (b/c you are part of the human race, and MIGHT have a flaw or two...) they're being handled already! SOOOOOO NEXT!!

And as for being a "work in progress"...aren't we all? Yes we are. My m is a work in progress & I'll never say "all is well" and end a sentence like that, b/c it's not going to be static again. For better or for worse, it will always be a work in progress just like we are as humans. And finally, remember....sometimes divorce leads to remarriage...it DOES happen.

Stay on track, you are doing well.

((( j )))

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/13/09 04:52 PM

Tundra - maybe this is a perfect time for you to get back to kayaking & rafting too, and more skiing next winter. I don't know why we give up our passions... but it's never too late to get back to them.

I'll be careful - last time I was on this stretch of the the river, 3 of the 4 boats flipped on a Class IV rapid. Hopefully we'll have better luck this time!

Let me know when you get back in the water. It would be good for you.

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/13/09 04:57 PM

Quote:
And as for being a "work in progress"...aren't we all? Yes we are. My m is a work in progress & I'll never say "all is well" and end a sentence like that, b/c it's not going to be static again. For better or for worse, it will always be a work in progress just like we are as humans.

How true.

When is your H coming home? Are you ready for his return? I forget how long you said he'd been away so perhaps it will be an adjustment to have him back again?

Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Newbie - first post - 06/14/09 11:11 PM

mtn,

H IS Coming in 2 weeks and we did just have a great 3 week trip to Europe to "retrieve" our d20. They will have adjustments to make as h must repair his r with her some more. But I feel pretty good otherwise. Nervous in a way but we spent last year in Alaska together with d11 and just came back to the lower 48 when mil AND my sister's h became terminally ill. BIL died in Sept, grandma died in August, and a 3rd unexpected death also happened. BUT H has spent most of the past 8-9 months with his mother due to her cancer. Now it's time for his brother to take that over as "We" have done our part and when she gets closer to the end, which will happen this calendar year, we are told, then h can attend to her of course.

I feel our M is restored and we are reconciled and "together" in all senses of the word. But he does have some other work to do as you know. With the kids. AND yes there will be adjustments to be sure. I expect some very rought patches as he gets to know these d's of ours better and sees what he missed and how he does NOT know them as he should and wants to. (I have a db coaching session this week and will have another one before h gets here)

AND I will set up an appt with a c, for me and H at least once. Also for d20 (and h with her IF she and he both want that), which I suspect he will want but can'ts speak for d20.

He wants "back into the family in full" and I feel for him. He knows he has missed out and looks like the proverbial "jerk dad".... On his own he says he'll go to an acting workshop b/c he wants to understand what we are all talking about when we discuss acting/theater. (S23 and d20 and I all do theater & film and AND s23 and d20 are making it their full time careers) so for h to get out of his comfort zone so much is a big deal. (H is an MD, so this is NOT what he does for fun...at least not yet).

It's touching really. (Watch him turn out to be way better than all of us and get work!! WTH? You never know...) I am CHOOSING to be positive about this, without being blind to the warning signs and risks, if you kwim.

I want to post "div busted" but will wait at least 3-6 months before doing so just to be careful. Nothing worse than seeing someone say "D-B!!" only to have them back on the boards a year later.

FaithfulH, and Brandnewday are still doing well but we all had this talk about "piecing VS reconciling". We realized we are using the terms SO carefully, and not realizing that to 99% of the people on these boards, we are "done"...but we know better. We are grateful that DBing helped save our M's...but we'll never say never.

We are never "done", with or without our spouses....make sense?

(( j ))

PS THANKS FOR ASKING...

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/15/09 03:52 AM

I'm excited to hear more about the adjustments when your H gets home, and it sounds like he's ready to work on all of the R's. It's really neat that he wants to take an acting class to better u/s what the family's been up to. That will take him out of his comfort zone and maybe he'll really enjoy it! Charades at home could go to a completely new level with a family full of actors! haha!

I think it's great you're planning to visit the C and make sure everyone's doing alright. Also, the DB coaching... your posts are full of insight and encouragement, but absolutely it makes sense you would need someone to bounce your concerns and plans off of...

By the newbie standards, yes, it seems you have busted your D but, your caution makes total sense. Can't wait to see your revised signature re: DBusted - b/c I think you can/will/are doing it!!

Inspiring, really! Thanks for sharing!

Posted By: sophia Re: Newbie - first post - 06/15/09 04:20 PM

Hey mnt_dreams,

How's everything going for you? Thanks for the advice concerning my MIL. You're right, contacting her to see my SS would probably make her feel uncomfortable.

Any exciting outdoor plans for the summer? I want to learn to flyfish better, go rafting, and take some backpacking trips. Summer in this state is so short, so I better take advantage of it before it's gone!

One thing that perplexes me about being in limbo is not knowing how much time to give my H. I decided, for now anyway, to give him 6 months. (He signed a six month lease) After that, if he's still ambivalent and conflicted, I need to just file for D so I can move on with my life, (meaning I can begin to date others) Do you think this is a good idea? I don't want to be in limbo forever.

Me 40
WAH 43
T 4 years
M 10 months
stepson 9
H left 1 month ago
No D filed

Posted By: Tundra277 Re: Newbie - first post - 06/15/09 09:28 PM

I did get back in the water this spring to train to do the swim part of a triathlon and it it was great ( I was a swimmer in HS and College). Since the triathlon a few weeks ago I took up running to compete in a 5k fun-raising type run and now I need to keep at both activities. My times weren't the fastest, but they were fun to say the least.

I have done more and more skiing with the kids the last few years and really enjoyed it, except my W doesn't ski, so it has been a drag with out her. Then there is the tension / pressure put on her to go and then she has a crappy time and..well, you get the picture.

Kayaking is next on my GAL activity. I still have my 20 year old kayak in the garage and want to get a newer one to see how they handle. I am sure they are like the new "shaped skis" and how much funner they are.

Enough about that......Did your H hear about your trip and did he say anything?

My sitch is still the same here, Same house, DB'ing every chance I get and it seems like I am backsliding at least once daily....even though I am trying to work on every chapter in the book.

Take care.

Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Newbie - first post - 06/16/09 12:37 AM

montana,

everyone needs at least an "internal" deadline so they are not in limbo forever. Your h does not need to know this if you don't want him to if you are worried that he'll see it as an ultimatum. Any ultimatums, IF ever given, better be followed so be careful with them.

But for me, I had a 2 year timeline b/c my older d was in high school and I could physically keep them in the same place/school for that amount of time and feel that some stability was there. Most people cannot do that. If you can, consider it but you have to know that you will be alright and that there is an end in sight. It's a very fair reasonable thing. Internally I felt that 2 years was pushing it a lot for ME, but it was a goal b/c of the girls.

Will your h know? And what will be different for you if the 6 months ends and you decide it's over? Will you file? Are they any signs he could show that would make you change your mind OTHER Than a complete reversal? Like the "gray" areas.

J-

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/16/09 04:56 AM

MT - I think it helps to put ourselves in the MIL's position (or FIL in my case). It must be hard. They love their sons, of course, but they welcomed us into the family too. Suddently everything's different and they want to support us both, but if forced to choose, we know what their choice will be. Awkward!! We have to do the right thing, and others will appreciate it. Even if they don't, we take the high road b/c it's the right thing to do.

No big plans for the summer... but now that you mention fly fishing, that's something I've always wanted to learn to do! I will have to check into that. Rafting in MT must be a blast! Backpacking too - that's great that you're thinking ahead like that. Nice job!

Yes, limbo land... it's a hard one to gauge. My family and friends seem to think I should move ahead, but I just don't feel it. Personally, I'm still hopeful and as long as I am I don't plan to file or move on. Right now I feel like I could honestly wait a couple years. My H didn't get into this mess overnight, and it's going to take a long time for him to sort it out. But, it's a very personal choice. If 6 mths is it for you, then so be it - but I think 25mlc gave you some good advice on this...

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/16/09 05:12 AM

Tundra -

a triathlon... wow! I'm impressed! Is that something you did with your W or took up after the bomb? Either way, nice job! I like doing 5ks too... it's relaxed but social, and just feels good to raise money for a good cause.

My H and I used to ski a lot together, and then with the kids. But the last season, he went almost exclusively by himself or with friends... It really put some tension on our R. He resented me for not going. I resented him for always wanting to ski and not be at home with us... It was a big source of conflict, and maybe for you too?

I know I loved the fact my H was a ski bum when we met, and somewhere along the way that admiration turned into resentment. Sad... a big regret of mine. If I get another chance, I will really try to participate with H in his love of skiing, and get back to the trips we enjoyed. Sometimes we'd just find a room to stay in to ski another day, and he pushed me so much beyond what I thought my abilities were. I never hiked beyond the lifts before H, and finding a way down double blacks became routine. I'll never be as smooth as H was, but I know I'm a better skier and have more resolve b/c of the way he pushed me.

any who.... did you W ever ski? Living in CO, I imagine there are some outdoorsy things you've enjoyed. Maybe you could come up with something to do with the kids and invite W along if she wants. Something that is relaxing and fun. Just a thought.

The raft trip is this coming weekend. My friend stopped by tonight to give me details and look at my broken gate. I am really excited! I don't know many people going, but it's a trip just for me! No kids, no H, just me being me like I used to be.

Hope all is well for you, Tundra. It is good your W is still in the house. If you're having backslides most days, challenge yourself to go a day or two without one. I know it's hard... but you can do it!

Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Newbie - first post - 06/16/09 07:33 PM

mtn,

You will get another chance of some sort with someone or something in life. You'll be more of a participant and less of a spectator and you'll define "family time" more broadly, don't you think? Point is that your changes are good for you and your future no matter what He does.

Hang in there, God's got something good around the corner for you. At least that's what I feel right now for you and thought should share it. And I don't say stuff like that a lot btw.

(( j ))

Posted By: mnt_dreams Re: Newbie - first post - 06/17/09 03:32 AM

I hope you are right about something good coming 'round the corner! I welcome that sort of change, in whatever form it comes, but know I have to be more patient than I ever thought I could be. This could take a long time!

Of course I want that chance for a new R to be with my H and deep in my gut I just don't feel we're done. But if my instincts are wrong, along with a sense of peace after praying about it, then God has something else in mind, and I will cross that bridge when I get to it.

Yes! I will be more active in my next R and never take it for granted... or stealing a line from your sitch, never say that we're D-busted and just coast. 'Family time'... yeah, I had my own definition and ideal of what that should look like. Man, I was stupid! Oh well - there will be a next time, and if I can't learn from my mistakes, I'm doomed to repeat them - and THAT'S JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

I saw a bumper sticker today I liked. It said:

The meaning of life is to live it.

Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Newbie - first post - 06/17/09 06:30 PM

AMEN

j-