I've been posting in Newcomers for a while- not sure how to post my sitches, they are as follows:
"Please Help" in WAW
"Mere months from Separation" newcomers
"Is there hope" on Newcomers...
The breakdown is this- W has checked out since Sept...she had an infatuation w/ OM1 that ended Early Jan, and now OM2 since late Jan. She moved out 1 month ago, and after I busted the A's, she now is officially in a R w/ OM2- as reported on FB.
I have had alot of support from other members, and it seems like my sitch is gaining momentum in the wrong direction.
I would like to know from other people is there anything left for me to cling to as far as hope?
W has not filed yet, nor have I- W has not told me she wants a D, but our mutual friend has told me from W.
I try to focus on myself, I feel Ok, but REALLY DONT WANT TO GET A D.......I love my W very much
welcome to the dark side Maynard. Embrace your fellow friends here on the land of the suck...
If you quote your first one you will see some icons... smily face and then a world with a chainlink.
Click on that it will bring up a window. You type in the name and then add the hyperlink.
Here are the 1st and 3rd hyper links
You can do the rest so you know what your doing. I.E. get the second one....
1.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=45281&Number=19032142.
???
3.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=45614&Number=1926290
Thanks Cutter- I'll give it a shot.
wanted to fill you in on something. W is supposed to be over to pick up some things.
i am tempted to tell her that it is still my job as a husband to be emotionally involved w/ her- that i have obligations and committment to her, and that she needs to free me from those things by filing- so that I can move on w/ my life and free myself for other people.
I cannot do so if I am still a H, even if my W is not there and not a part of my life.
I know this is probably pursuing, so I thought I would throw it out there for ideas...
1. You need to first start calling a spade a spade, your wife isn't "in a relationship, she's having an AFFAIR.. they are VERY DIFFERENT ANIMALs"
2. Its also your job to protect your wife from the "grass is greener mentality" and momentary infatuations - these aren't MEN she's cheating with, they are PREDATORS.. they are exploiting her emotional vulnerability, it is your responsability to protect her from THEM.
3. Pursue no, PROTEST and EXPOSE -- YES.
4. Educate your wife, get her into family therapy and teach her what marriage means in relation to an affair... and the dangers of infatuations and fantasy... she will just get used and hurt in the long run... my wife got used bigtime.
Thanks Allen-
I understand that it is an affair- the problem is no one else see it that way; and as I mentioned the two of them have been outed by me so they decided to make it public- perhaps less guilt that way.
I saw W lastnight- her mother has already met the guy, the three of them had dinner on Monday night. OM is divorced and 8 years older than W. They were born in the same hospital and went to the same college. I asked if she was in love, she said no. I asked if there was something there, she said maybe, I don't know.
I am interested in getting more advice from you on this.
There is alot of stuff that is changing. W was on antidepressants for years, she's coming off of them now, W has worked 7 days a week for the last 2 years, now she's taking a day off on the weekend.
These are two things that I recommended years ago- she's doing them now for this new R/A- but wouldn't do it for our M.
I cannot understand it and I feel if I mention it to her- it is pursuing.
She has sabotaged everything as far as our attempts at Piecing over the last 6 months- and this is now the second EA/PA with a new man.
She is not interested in therapy.
Please let me know what you think, b/c I am tempted to speak w/ her about it.
Have the following e-mail ready to send to MIL
Hi MIL-
As you know your daughter, my bride- is having an affair. I know she is her own woman and is free to do what she wants. i know in her head the marriage is already dead. I also know that you will respect your daughter's wishes, no matter what.
Affairs are addictive and fantasy- there is nothing real about them, they are infatuations of excitement and attraction and newness. I can only imagine- as the last time I had that feeling was when I first starting courting W. You know as we all do that the newness begins to fade and the fatasy dissipates, as reality of life sets in and the "love chemicals" in your brain have less effect- I've read books on this.
That typically takes 3-6 months to happen-inevitably, she will get to where she is now w/ me- and she can eiother buckle down and go to therapy and fix problems, or find someone new.
Of course she's going to say she's happy, b/c she doesn't have those feelings for me b/c we've been together for 6 years.
I believe in marriage- I believe in working on something that can and needs to be fixed.
W now is taking days off of work, I am happy for that and made that suggestion years ago. She is also coming off of her meds...another suggestion I had made.
I know you do not want to get involved. As a husband it is my job to expose the affairs and protect our marriage, and protect my wife from people w/ no regard for marriages.
You may not respect what I've been doing in order to do this, and I know that this causes you stress b/c it's easier not to think about.
MIL- I will quote you from our wedding, where you were dressed beautifully in brown..."I have no doubt that (brides name) and Grooms name) will be happy together forever."
You are my mother-in law, you are my family too- you have been married and you know what it takes, you are a beautiful woman and you know what it feels like when someone new notices you and takes an interest...
I will not contact you again after this (I know you've heard that before
). W will divorce me so she will no longer feel guilt from the last 6 months. Or she can open her eyes and see what happened to us, and seek family and marital counselling w/ me and turn things around.
If she divorces me w/ another man in the picture- she will not be doing it while in a sober mindset- and that is unfair to all of us.
You can have a beautiful family the way that was planned 2 years ago- w/ a son in law who is who he promised to be, but failed until now.
The changes W is making right now would have benefited our marriage, just like the one's I have made would also have benefited us.
I will respect W decision, but I will not support it, and until we are divorced, I will call her relationship what it is in the eyes of God, INFIDELITY.
But I will not hold grudges.
I love you very much, and I appologise if this brings you grief- but it is stressful for a reason, the affair is immoral and wrong. Any husband who loves his wife would do the same. You too can make a stand- and help me protect something that you once believed in-
Just to catch you up- MIL has never been supportive- I have outed the prior EA/PA as often as I could, w/o so much as a reply from her.
I may just need to accept the fact that busting the A is not going to do anything b/c W doesn't believe there is anything wrong w/ it- she is going to file soon.
I agree that there is logic and justification in fighting for my M, I also believe that OM is a womanizer- it might just be that OM is who W wants to be w/- he is almost the polar opposite of me.
I feel that these boards help me- but the things I've done to out the A do not seem to help me in the least- i look like the STBX in full blown denial, and incapable of accepting the reality that is.
I have to consider this from here on out.
Maynard,
DON'T SEND THE LETTER. It's way too long, you're trying to "teach" her, and I don't think it will accomplish what you're trying to accomplish (btw, what ARE you trying to accomplish?).
I'm slammed at work at the moment and don't have the time to go thru it point-by-point, but I simply HATED it -- made me cringe.
Maybe Allen and the others will have a different take. Your call, of course, as always.
Puppy
I will hold off- the goal is to protest the A, by calling it what it is.
As I said MIL is aware b/c she had dinner w/ W and OM on monday night. That's why I think anything out of me is futile.
Looking forward to you comment.
Then simply tell her "when you have dinner with my wife and another man, it hurts me deeply. I love your daughter, but I don't agree with what she is doing, and I feel you enable her when you do that. If you continue to support their relationship, it's going to put even more distance between you and me, and that's regrettable." -- or some such.
Puppy
Yes, the points to stress are teh following :
1. Supporting her daughter means supporting her marriage, not endorsing predators to ATTACK a vulnerable marriage
2. OM is a predator, not a romantic interest
3. Ask for her HELP in PROTECTING your marriage and your wife
4. Tell her HOW she can help
5. Lastly tell her you put a ring on and said forever and you intend to keep that promise until papers aer signed - ask her to HELP you support her going to THERAPY
You will have MUCH more impact if you VISIT her in PERSON and READ the letter to her... sending a letter to her is way too passive...
I would see if you can show her the guerilla divorce busting video I offered earlier.
Also, send her some materials from Penny about "Love not being an excuse for Infidelity"
I think we need to know more about this woman's character, how educated she is, what her relatinoship is with you, how much influence she has on her daughter...
Affairs are HIGHLY political... my wife did the same thing.. she tried to introduce OM around to all her friends... they all quietly were meeting him behind my back... I had to educate some people and it wasn't at all fun...
When she introduces OM to family and friends she is attempting to validate the affair...
YOU need to KEEP IN CLOSE TOUCH with everyone she may introduce him to... SHOW them you are still in the game... your wife is playing a very dangerous game here... very dangerous...
And this guy is a total sleazeball...
I would start going to family therapy w/o the wife.. set an example...
Get a biz card from teh FT and pass it to the wife iwth a personal note from teh FT on it inviting her to join in...
Keep in touch with all of her friends... tell them you and she are having trouble, and ask for their HELP in supporting your marriage and DISCOURAGING her straying.
This is a political campaign... time to roll up your sleeves
Thanks Allen
Unfortunately- I have busted a few A's now. MIL has been in town now for 1 month and she refuses to see me. I have no idea what version other people are getting of our sitch- truth is it's been stressful. I have caught W sleeping at OM1's house, busted the A to OM1 and his GF, and alas to MIL. W adamantly denies the 1st A. MIL has repeatedly told me it's between me and W, that she doesn't want to be involved.
W has disclosed the source of my info, and MIL does not approve. I have explained the lying and manipulations to her, she does not care.
Once more- MIL has refused to visit me since she's been here, but has sat down to dinner w/ W and OM2. WTF!?
Then simply tell her "when you have dinner with my wife and another man, it hurts me deeply. I love your daughter, but I don't agree with what she is doing, and I feel you enable her when you do that. If you continue to support their relationship, it's going to put even more distance between you and me, and that's regrettable." -- or some such.
Puppy
These points above are excellent... try not to attack or speak down to her mother.. you want to help her understand your commitment, and ask for her help in supporting your marriage and in supporting family therapy...
The OM will just look like a sleazeball when you do that.. which he IS
I've done this- she started campaigning long before me- they avoid me like the plague and my Recovery friends (mutual) tell me to accept what I cannot control and she is free to do what she wants.
I am in a vaccume. It is really sad- but she has built a house of cards- and it will fall somehow...maybe not before the D, but certainly afterwards.
I would tell her when she allows OM into her home, she IS getting involved and harming your marriage... tell her this is a shame and you hoped for her support to at LEAST not get involved wtih teh OM at all...
First, MWD made the point clearly that you CAN control others by positive marriage affirming acts.
yes, this all will fall apart, that's for sure... you are right on that one.. dead on.
When they tell you that you can't control it. I would just reply
"I am protecting my marriage. I am NOT asking you to get involved if you are uncomfortable, all I am asking you to do is NOT support her affairs by interacting with other MEN... if she wants you to meet OM please simply REFUSE and tell her you are saying OUT of it"
If they are uncomfortable supporting YOU, ask them to at LEAST tno support OM's attack on your marriage, many will agree to that...
I agree w/ you 100%. The prob here is W has said that she's unhappy in our M and that she is doing what she wants to be happy.
Everyone is supporting her in this- it is UNREAL. I am not abusive, we're only yelled at oneanother 1 time in 6 years and she tells them the same lies she tells me- I am the only one who was able to uncover the truth.
I am fighting w/ both hands tied behind my back. I feel like there is really nothing that can be done- the people I know can't keep their mouths shut and W's friends are exclusively W's friends.
At this point W is sick of the stress- I believe that I am in denial of the fact that my M is over
The 60's and 70's anti-institutional movements did a lot of damage to the covenant of marriage. We are still feelign those effects even 40 years later. There's even a small movement in the last five to ten years to bring some of the exploratory marriage practices of the 70's back.. this all makes me sick.
I would do what you can to educate your mutual friends... particularly people who were at your WEDDING..
Tell them "you were at our wedding. We are still married.. how you can ALLOW this MAN into your home.. this man is attacking my marriage... I am NOT asking for you to get involved if that is uncomfortable for you.. I am just asking you to ACKNOWLEDGE my MARRIAGE until I am divorced please.. and you do this by NOT being involved iwht OM or my wife at all ..."
perfect logic. asking for respect and acknoledgement.
I will do what I can. At this point I am not communicating w/ W anymore. I cannot deal w/ it anymore. I saw her for 1 hour last night- we got along OK, first time I saw her in over a week.
I couldn't sleep at all!!!
This is the most painful part of the affair... when you find out not only your wife has betrayed you, but people whom you thought to be friends of the marriage turn on you AND the marriage as well... It really is a testament to how uneducated and how immature adults can be.
Your wife is a talented politician that is clear. And the classic "I just want to be happy" is a classic excuse for an affair.
I would inform whomever you can that you want both of you to be happy, but you aren't goign to CHEAT on her to find that... And again ask them to at LEAST supoprt your marriage as far as NOT accepting the OM into their lives. Many are willing to do this I find... they won't speak UP on your behalf, but if you ask them to OPT OUT of the drama, many are willing to do this, but you have to ASK them... otherwise they will just do what your wife wants...
If you feel it may have impact you can approach the OM, its not a tactic I often reccomend, but if everything else fails, this won't hurt.... you simply ask him to STEP ASIDE and respect your marriage... tell him if HE was married you certailny woudl'nt be attacking HIS marriage... most often this results in laughter, but if you have nothing left, this has a small chance of impact...
I would save that as a last effort though... unless you can do it in public.. THAT can have an effect... show up at a party you wife brings him to and ask him in PUBLIC to stay away from your wife "please".. respect my marriage and respect my wife and I and our marriage by STAYING AWAY from her...
If you do this in public, it humiliates him... THIS can have impact...
SHAME can resonate even in the most callous of people...
In Love
Happiness
the Right thing to Do
These are all excuses for not committing to a marriage covenant. These are classics... the best way to combat them is to EXPOSE their falsity... if you are speaking to mutual friends tell them outright... "sure I want you two to be happy to, but if one of you starts lying and cheating behind the other's back, I am NOT going to support that, its NOT happiness you are pursuing when you cheat, its excitement"...
many people confuse excitement for happiness... this is the case here..
If these people she is politicking with were at your wedding, i would use that angle...
Make it clear you are still in the game and bring the problem HOME to these people.. ask tehm
Joe, if you came to me and introduced me to a woman you were seeing and your wife mary was miserable, I would REFUSE to have anything to do with that... and I would invite both YOU and mary to go to family therapy... THAT is what I would do for yout wo because I was at YORU wedding.. and I want to respect not just the two of you, but your commitment as well, even if one of you decides to stray from that commitment... My wife isnt' pursuing happiness, she's chasing excitement... it will come to reality eventually... I would LIKE you to at LEAST respect my marriage in sofar as to NOT get involved with her Or OM ... this man does NOT respect a wedding ring, and he isnt' respecting HER... please at least support me that far... as I woudl do for you
Make it clear you are giogn to family therapy as well... show them you are mature and committed... the mroe mature and committed things you do, the more crazy she looks... the probelm is I suspect most of these people are in their 20's or early 30's... people of that age don't understand what marriage IS... It takes over ten years to learn what "WE" means... these guys are likley too young to get that...
You are absolutely right about the age demographics. The oldest one is OM at 41 and already divorced.
W feels a connection for that- his M lasted 2 years as well and he was the one that sought D.
It is amazing- I am the only one left in this and the only one w/ the faintest hope, respect, or reason to be proud of my M.
The other problem is the recovery crowen (I am also in recovery) they are all so in to personal happiness and integrity- hense they tell me a M takes 2 and you are just one.
The balk at a M is a M until it is dissolved...
These young people will invariably run into the same poblems... One thing you will learn from this mess is that respect for your OWN marriage, starts with respect for the marrigaes of OTHERS...
If they don't care about yours enough, they won't care about their own enough... and when that happens an affair isnt' too far in the distant future...
People who support affairs eventually cheat and fly or are cheated ON... its inevitable...
The OM pursued divorce because he doesn't have respect for marriage... his own nor for yours... he's clearly still in a childlike predator state and hasn't made a grown up commitment to community.. children like this are a serious threat to the stability of a community...
I honeslty believe they belong in jail... they are no better than burglars or vandals...
He didn't fight for his own marriage he isnt' going to pursue youw wife long term when things get ugly there either.. he WILL run again... marriage takes work.. u ntil you realize that and roll up your sleeves, you really haven't made an honest commitment yet... the wedding and the I Do's are just that... a ceremony... the REAL covenant comes years later when someone wants out...
I agree again- if that is the case, they are perfect for one another. I am really trying to just take care of myself- I have never cared about M so much as I do right now.
The good news is that someone will benefit from it- I just wish that I could do the right thing and only have 1 marriage that stood the test of time. One W to fight with me for us.
I heard OM on the phone lastnight when he called W- "Hey Gorgeous."
I did that at the beginning too- and it sounds so cheezy for me to hear it right now, and even sickens me that it makes W's head swim-
I've done what I can do- there has been alot of sabotage, and I fear that W might be a borderline- so anything from me is associated w/ disappointment and pain. Anything from her will only hurt me.
It's amazing how much things can change in 6 months, and the gradual changes made months before that- catalyzed by two OM...
You live in the same home with her and this man calls your house? I would have my phone service block his number... or cancel phone service entirely...
Your wife is very likley quite depressed and is using the affair as an escape from that... often waywaryd spouses get really sad and confused, and then they meet a predator who takes that away with a temporary excitement.. its just like pushing drugs...
sorry- she was over briefly- she moved out 1 month ago. She answered her cellular.
I agree- W also started drinking months ago and has been sober for 5 years,, I also suspect illicit substances as OM is known for partying as well.
I'v tried to gain info and evidence to support an intervention, but have thus far failed.
And once more I am viewed as the STBX who's grasping at straws...
Her exit strategy has been in place for a while. She made sure to keep her business friends away from me. Never inviting them out w/ us or over to the house. Once she made her decision I was a leper (sp).
Brilliant- in the grand scheme of things. I agree about the excitement and the depression.
sorry- she was over briefly- she moved out 1 month ago. She answered her cellular.
Then you lay out a hard boundary -- RIGHT THERE.
"Wife, I can hear that that's your boyfriend. I won't be disrespected that way in my own house -- please call him back later, or take it outside. (no pause) Thank you."
Nip this one
NOW.
Puppy
Don't even call him a boyfriend.. I referred to the OM preying on my home as "the creep" and didn't refer to it as calling our home but ias PREYING on it...
"Wife, I can hear him preying on our marriage. I won't tolerate our marriage disrespected that way in own home -- take it outside ... (no pause) Thank you. If he calls here again I am calling the police."
and stand thre until she does something... make NOISE to drive her out of the home if you have to...
I woudl stress the fact to your freinds that your wife is on medication and this guy is exploiting that... This is a serious predator...
The most devious thing I can think of is to hire a woman to hit on this guy in front of your wife... to expose his lack of true commitment...
This is NOT a tested strategiy and is outright devious - its just something that I came up with in my head, but in serious cases where your wife's stability is in question and this guy is exposed to possible drugs and alcohol you may just have to get ruthless to expose these guys
Your wife will need to SEE this guy cheat on her and hurt her... to wake her up out of the fog I think
I woudl stress the fact to your freinds that your wife is on medication and this guy is exploiting that... This is a serious predator...
Good angle.
Allen- i appreciate all the advice you've given me. I share your same sentiments and values of M. I understand that A's will hoodwink the wayward spouse- I also understand the wayward fog and all the shape-shifting backdrop that is the marital history- even worse, I have experienced the venom spew from W and the piercing lies-
I should run the other way, but I don't want to- I have outed what I can, from here I will continue to protest when it is not going out of my way, I will establish boundaries, and I will keep away from the pain.
I just don't have it in me to fight like this anymore- the more I do the more stressed W and I become. The more my name is dragged through the mud as a crazy STBX.
I know who my friends are now- and I know that W and MIL are not, for MIL has been dosed with the same lies as everyone else.
Help me build a plan-
My Goal- to allow W's fantasy to fall apart, to have her experience a crisis, and see OM fall from his perch.
I think I should go LRT.
LRT?
Hmmm.. your wife is in teh heat of things now... the reality has to set in... we may have to go old school on this guy
My Goal- to allow W's fantasy to fall apart, to have her experience a crisis, and see OM fall from his perch
WRONG!!!
Your goal is to move on with your life. Maynard affair busting has gotten you nowhere. So, you break this affair apart... then you will need to start working on breaking the next one and the next one and so forth.
Your W is GONE. Protect yourself legally, make sure she honors the debt to your family and move on. If she comes running after you (which I doubt) then run faster than her because this creature is a parasite.
EDIT: Allen you're giving great advice here. I highly recommend you read through Maynard's entire sitch from the beginning (around Dec 09) and if you disagree with me.
Gnosis.. i really dont' belive anyone should be telling someone when their marriage is over no...
I belive a person CAN protect oneself ANd fight an affair at the same time... I don't believe they have to be ounterprodutve to one another...
Actually- I believe Gnosis is right.
Last night I saw W for 1 min- I spoke to her back, she would not face me.
I saw FB pics of OM and she , and even MIL and OM hugging and having a great time. I have not seen MIL in a year, she lived at my house for 6 months rent free.
My M is over and I can move on now knowing that I did not cheat, lie, or give up on things.
There is nothing more to do than seek council, prepare for D and move on.
I will keep updates, but w/ NC and little concern about what STBX is doing, there will not be much other than my GAL's.
I do know that W's truest colors have come out and I doubt it has anything to do w/ not being in love. So it will only be a matter of time...
You all have been great, it would have been nice to bust a D here, but that will not happen in my sitch.
Maynard -
I don't know that I have ever posted to you, but have read along. I just wanted you to know that I'm sorry that your wife has let your M and R evolve (or, better word, dissolve) to this...
HUGS and find a way for some peace and happiness.
Thanks for the hugs and for keeping up w/ my journey. I am deeply hurt but at least now I know where I stand and that any further effort physically or emotionally into my sitch is unnecessay and will only drain me further.
I know the process of W's disconnection was gradual, I know that every aspect of our R/M had aspects that were able to be addressed, and I know that a deep and meaningful R/M could have been salvaged.
The problem is that W did not see those things; and that is OK.
Thanks again,
Gnosis.. i really dont' belive anyone should be telling someone when their marriage is over no...
You are correct. That was not my intention. I meant for Maynard to move on with his life by working on himself, rebuilding his self-esteem, GAL and 180's instead of spending his days obsessing over every minor detail and interaction with his WAW.
I belive a person CAN protect oneself ANd fight an affair at the same time... I don't believe they have to be ounterprodutve to one another...
I believe the same.
Now for my 180 on the above and why he should move forward:
This woman has intentionally gone out and exposed his darkest secrets. She is filled with contempt and indecency. She has left him broke and has taken money from his parents -- money that deprives them of a comfortable life in their golden years. She has taken out an RO against him. She allowed OM1 to threaten him.
To top that off, the minute Maynard busted the affair with OM1 she already had OM2 lined up. From my understanding she has a history of some kind of addiction herself... OM2 is a drug user and living the high life. She is diving back into this lifestyle and will crash. No one can say when she will snap out of it. I don't wish ill on his WAW and hope she snaps out of it.
The best thing for Maynard to do is detach and look after himself. This way his state of mind will be free from his co-dependency and other issues that cloud it when she crashes. When that happens he will be able to make rational decisions to help her and take her back if he still wants her.
Gno, you are absolutely correct. I had been focused on the A's from the very beginning. I will not beat myself up b/c I wasn't doing anything wrong- but my actions have helped expedite her flight- and that's OK too.
There is no telling if and when some type of crash will occur. I am 32 yo and W is 33 and OM is 41. I want no part in that type of night life/ bar scene.
I want a family life and home life.
Some good goals Maynard to build off of here.
Gno- the goals I mentioned about the A- is for me to be totally removed and unaffected- just letting nature take its course-
I actually feel prtty free- a bit sad and disechanted but mostly a sense of relief..
I was speaking to my friend- it's funny, aside from the blind date I went on, I am not at all interested in a R at this point in time.
aside from the blind date I went on, I am not at all interested in a R at this point in time.
And you shouldn't be. Right now your interest should be working on yourself. In your case part of that is also the validation that you're desirable to a member of the opposite sex. It does wonders for your self-esteem.
You have recovered from substance abuse and that my friend is a testimony to you being a survivor. It speaks loads of you, your integrity and resolve.
I hope you keep posting here or in another section of the site. You will have up and down days. There will always be someone here who will encourage you and keep you "straight".
I missed your input for a while- I know that you keep a close eye on things. I have learned much about my resolve and sheer determination (or denial lol), but I have had poor coping skills w/in my sitch...at times I do OK, but I have ALOT of work to do for myself like you said.
I appreciate all of your help!!
Maynard. I will be here with you We can continue to help each other along.
I've learned W is ready to file- per our conversation Mon- we want to do it very cheaply, she doesn't want to lay claim on the house- though she loves it.
Sad- but I told her it's a box w/o her there.
Looks like I'll have a new thread soon in Surviving the Big D...hopefully she can find whatever respect for me she can to keep things civil and "friendly"
I will not hold a grudge against her- and I will not hate her- neither of us deseve that
maynard2121,
Sorry that your W is talking D. My H has been for almost 2 months now. And he has hired a L, but not filed yet. I've been told by some of the more experienced DB that it's not over yet.
(())
I feel the same way in some cases- but they say it's diff when the WAS is the H...I am so hopeful for you!!
I will not stop DB, but I will no longer focus anything on WAW...should have done that months ago but the darn A's were killing me and I thought MIL would do something other than hug and kiss OM2---WTFFFFFFFFF!!!???
Time to be a bit more realistic and mature about things...
So sorry )-: But your right it's time to focus on yourself, which I know is the hardest thing to do. I'm so obsessed with my H's A I can't function really, but I'm trying.
If you can- do yourself a favor and detatch as much as possible...dont let the A take you down the rabbit hole.
H will lie and do whatever he can to cotrol what you know and therefor how you feel...so try to stay uninvolved.
(())
Did you expect anything else from MIL... Come on Maynard.
Also its not a box. Its now your house. And trust me on this. While the guilt is running high. Get as much as you can from her and get it signed. ASAP.
Cause if you do not. It will get harder and harder.
Truthfully, I suppose not, considering MIL's stance from day one.
Problem w/ the guilt- W is over-riding guilt w/ anger, so I don't know that things will be so peaceful
Still feeling pretty good, not GALing as much b/c of bad weather. Still retracing steps of my M and it's failures, still grasping at answers to why...
W removed her M name from her FB profile...we are headed for D.
I left her a message that her friendship is important to me and that although I do not approve of what she's doing (the A) I do want her to be happy; and that I'm sorry that I am not a part of that happiness- and that when the D is finalized, I can change my view of her R- though it would take time to become fully supportive.
I spoke to my mother at length last night- she's happy that I am feeling better and accepting things. She's angry that W has done what she has, but understands and respects the love I still have for W.
I'm also very impressed that I am not following in W's footsteps trying to fill the void...that is usually my MO- the easier and softer way so to speak.
I've realized that the WAW is not M when they walk away, especially when they are open to new R. I knew that my sitch was grimm- b/c I knew that W and I had serious issues w/ time and connection...I know that it was not always me and not always her; I know that she's changed w/ drinking and it's opened her up to a diff world of "fun" (night-life, parties, excitement, and likely passion).
I'll be starting a new thread soon. I am hopeful of 3 things:
-that I will be able to heal and will have experienced all of the emotions relating to the death of my M and loss of my W.
-that one day W will realize the loss as well and will have to face her part and her emotions to be able to heal as well
-that one day there will be a strong friendship between us- perhaps one more rewarding than that M we shared
I left her a message that her friendship is important to me and that although I do not approve of what she's doing (the A) I do want her to be happy; and that I'm sorry that I am not a part of that happiness-
Puppy
I know- but it's the end and it's the truth...
I'm really bad at this
In your case part of that is also the validation that you're desirable to a member of the opposite sex. It does wonders for your self-esteem.
Even just having female friends, online or IRL, will really help you to heal.
It will not help you to stay friends with your W! Not healthy...
And I suggest that when it comes time to divorce and
split up belongings, DO IT QUICKLY...it will cause less pain and help you detach sooner!
(((maynard)))
I left her a message that her friendship is important to me and that although I do not approve of what she's doing (the A) I do want her to be happy; and that I'm sorry that I am not a part of that happiness-
Puppy
I am for Blcccch too...
SHe is NOT going to be happy. Affairs have NOTHING to do with HAPPINESS... its EXCITEMENT...
I have said this before and I will say it again...
VIOLENCE is exciting, but it does NOT make people happy...
LYING is exciting, but it does NOT make people happy
CHEATING is exciting, but it does NOT make people happy
AFFAIRS are EXCITNIG, but they Do NOT make people HAPPY...
You just cater to yoru wife's delusions and SIGN OFF on them when you give her the "I just want you to be happy" crap...
Talk like a husband
"You will regret this. I stand by my willingness to work on our marriage. I will NOT in any way support an affair... This WILL FAIL for you.. and for THAT, You have my condolences... do NOT come crying to ME for support when it crashes into the ground and you are alone... because I will be happy without you. I will be happy and you won't because I know what love means and you never will"
THAT is a sign off sir!!!
Thanks newma- I guess you're right about the friendship part-
I am friends w/ most of my ex's, but never M before either.
I guess an ideal world kinda thing...
I've gone out w/ a girl aware of my sitch, it is nice, but there is no attraction there.
thanks for the hugs
I do like that and that is the way to go out...I'm sorry to have backslid and shown a weak and meek placating spineless oeff of a man.
maybe there will be another opportunity for a better reply- I'm not going out of my way for a while though.
Woah, you kept friendships with your former partners?
Don't tell me you did that during your marriage.. please don't tell me you did something like that...
yes, FB friends, only contacted them when I got M- they are both happily M w/ children
You can find your own way to word it, but the focus is :
1. This will fail - she's been warned by you who was obligated to protect her
2. Excitement is NOT happiness - You tried to help her understand the difference
3. You will NOT wait for this to crash - you are moving on and will be healthier without her affair in your life
THose aer KEY points you need to sign off with... worded whatever way you like..
Keep your ground and your dignity... ALWAYS
If you are HURTING TOO MUCH to keep your ground, keep AWAY from CONTACT...
STEEL yourself ... OR PROTECT yourself.. but do one or the other...
You NEED that right now in particular... divorce is HARD... you need to help yourself through that... surrendering to the affair is NOT gonig to help you through a divorce... challenging it and keeping your dignity is how you survive that.
There will always be better chances to kiss this affair good bye the way it deserves.
yes, FB friends, only contacted them when I got M- they are both happily M w/ children
Word to the wise...
NEXT marriage... do NOT keep girlfriends listed in your face book...
That's called lifeboating...
a Lifeboat is aboat attached to a ship in the off chance the boat sinks
When you lifeboat your marriage by keeping girlfriends in your contact list (facebook, outlook, or a phone book) you are NOT making a commitment.. or at least not SHOWING one to your spouse..
If I looked in my wife's facebook and saw former boyfriends in there, I would walk out the DOOR and NOT look back.
Comments Pup?
And ya, i know youa re going to say
They are "just friends"
Don't get me started on that nonsense...
Its a lifeboat and you are in denial if you don't agree...
People don't keep former partners around just to chum around with... they want to have someone on hand to "talk to" if they need them...
Its laying the groundwork for a sleazy affair... this is how most affairs START... with friends whom you are attacted to that you keep secret contact with...
And yes, unless your wife reads your facebook account along with you its a secret contact.. even if the convo is at the moment apparently innocent.. its setting the foundation for an affair.
I agree completely-
As I mentioned- my views of M have greatly changed in the last 8 months. I know where I went wrong and why W feels it was never really a M.
I would never tell you "just friends."
I know exactly what you're saying- and you are absolutely correct
I read an article in the newspaper once about facebook and infidelity...
Facebook is apparently one of THE NUMBER ONE internet sites where affairs spring up... There are others, but facebook is notorious for them... and YES most of them sprang from people contacting former partners or keeping a contact line open...
Its not just YOU.. THEIR marriages are at risk when YOU are in THIER facebook account... I can't imagine their husbands feel happy but that... but I suspect their husband's don't KNOW... OR are still so young they are naive to the threats to a marriage...
And Facebook is one of them.
I agree- I've seen W's page and it is mostly all ex's from HS and college-
She went home last summer and contacted one of her ex's to catch up- but also said "if it's ok, I don't want to start any problems for you..."
So I know what you mean. And I will lose all contact info in the future when I'm in a committed R- b/c the R is about Respect and committment...
Your wife is deluded right now.
It WAS a marriage, marriages are works in progress... ALWAYS...
A marriage is a boat, you can help steer, paddle, row, etc, or you can sneak into the hull and start digging a HOLE in the bottom and dance with glee that eventually the boat will sink and everyone with it.
She cannot justify an affair by waving her hand at her marriage and sayign "that's not a marriage"... Her AFFAIR isn't a romantic relatinosihp either, its a sleazy affair based on lies and hurtfulness...
Comparing an affair to a romantic relatinship is akin to a Stalker comparing his obsession to being "in love"
Both the affair partners, AND stalkers are DELUDED.. its an unhealthy attachment to a fantasy... it will fail.
I would take yourself out of your girlfriend's facebook accounts so they don't have a lifeboat to turn to when their marriage starts giong south... and they all do run into bad weather...
What are YOU going to do when they contact you to "talk" about their marital problems?
The probelm is Maynard, YOu are in these married women's facebook accounts.... what are you gonna tell THEIR husbands when their husbands ask you about that?
You are already compromising someone ELSE's marriage when you keep contact with former partners... these women can't focus 100% on their marriage when YOu are in their facebook account... I wouldn't want that on my conscience.
When my wife was having her affair she started emailing a former partner from university too... its blatant lifeboating...
When they see a ship sinking, people have two choices :
1. Help bail water and repair the damage
2. Scout for a single seater lifeboat in secret and jump ship when it comes within swimming range
When marriages run into bad weather, people have those two choices too... when YOu sign up on someone's facebook you are putting yourself up as a lifeboat for these people...
I am NOT saying dont be in anyone's facebook, but I AM saying former partners should NOT keep in contact, its a VERY HIGH RISK to an affair and it puts marriages as RISK...
BOTH parties need to cut teh chord... when EITHER of them makes a long term commitment to someone else
Glass mentions in her book that one of the HIGHEST risks to affairs is meeting or keeping in contact with former partners.
YOu will be tempted to contact these women now.. I guarantee you will think about it if you haven't already...
Cut the chord and protect their homes and their childen.
I agree- I've seen W's page and it is mostly all ex's from HS and college-
She went home last summer and contacted one of her ex's to catch up- but also said "if it's ok, I don't want to start any problems for you..."
So I know what you mean. And I will lose all contact info in the future when I'm in a committed R- b/c the R is about Respect and committment...
Yup, big suprise there... HUGE red light.
There ARE a lot of people out there who have this hippy/bohemian attitude twoards marriage...
By this I mean minimal boundaries.. keep things free, open, and light.. dont' make a lot of silly rules or limits that leave the spouse feeling caged in.
This was a common attitude twoards romantic relationships particularly in the 60's. It is common every few generations for this ridiculous theory to rear its ugly head and be experimented with.
It doesn't WORK.
Marriage is a commitment, it requires FOCUS, DETERMINATION, and hard work.. as well as DIFFICULT CHOICES...
Marriage is not for the timid, or for the flighty...
if you don't like being fenced in, don't make a commitment to anyone... commitments ARE fences... like it or not, that's what they are... and marital boundaries are the fenceposts...
Your wife sounds like she likes to keep things light and easy, without a lot of structure to her life... she should not marry until she gets that out of her system or gets it under control.
I agree- esp considering the fact that she believes the M failed her. Rather than finding happiness w/in her self she relied on the M for that. I was always happy w/ me but felt a disconnect w/ W b/c of her innate unhappiness.
She understands these things but is still looking outside herslf for happiness.
I never once thought the M should be discarded- not until all other avenues were explored.
As I mentioned her mom was widowed and remarried for a month then called her daughter and son when her H was away and had them pack her up.
Now MIL is 60, going to bars and restaraunts at night, living a singles life- this is the family dynamic- no dinners w/ mom and dad- seeing that a home/family life is perhaps a tad boring compared to bars and clubs on a weeknight- but far more rewarding.
I will take your suggestion and remove myself from their FB's
Marriages can't fail people... People can fail in marriage when the do not make a complete commitment to it... SHE failed to do that.. miserably..
And yes, part of her failure was her lack of exposure to good marriage in the first place... when this happens, people often don't have the confidence or hope to try when the road gets bumpy... they run for cover...
I suspect the next time you pursue marriage you will triple check your spouses cultural exposures far into her past, and her families commitments as well...
Flighty people breed more flighty people...
Hard to say it, but if you want success. genetics makes a difference... if you want to go for the underdogs, I salute you, but you are on an uphill battle (one I am on myself)
RE: friends of the opposite sex on FB.
I don't have a problem with it if the woman is a MUTUAL friend of the marriage's, if her husband is also friended by each of you, AND your marriage is currently healthy with no infidelity threats looming.
I don't think that's the case, in your situation.
Puppy
I always go for underdogs- but no more. My family had to pay for the wedding of her dreams b/c her family could not assist at all.
I was absolutley smitten by her...just let the distance creep in.
I agree about upbringing and family dynamics- people always said I should have looked closely at MIL and who she was. W was very independent and kept her emotions to herself- very sad-
Lesson learned
I am friends w/ both the husbands, but they dont have pages- so it's the "family page" they keep pictures of the baby on the profile.
Sadly no, my M was not in good shape...
Those arrangements work out fine when the marriages are going smothly.. but I don't reccomend them.. its high risk...
For your safety, and the safety of these women and their children I would start taking a few steps back...
call me paranoid, but it DOES happen...
After seeing what's happened to me and the effect any OM can have on a W- I DO NOT WANT TO EVER BE THAT GUY
Congradulations... that's a step into adulthood that most men don't even bother to tread.
You are just at risk of it at the moment by keeping those face book accounts connected...
The risk is low until either of those marraiges starts to hit bad weather... You will be tempted to help... even if you don't think its a good idea...
Even if YOU don't get involved you could be distracting teh women from focussing on their marriages...
Its a tricky arrangement that's best avoided in my opinion
I left her a message that her friendship is important to me and that although I do not approve of what she's doing (the A) I do want her to be happy; and that I'm sorry that I am not a part of that happiness-
Puppy
Yup. Ditto.
Instead: W, peace out. W, smell ya later. W, later days. W, it was real.
Extra harsh to get point across.
I def agree....a huge prob I've had throughout my sitch is remaining consistant- W now calls it me "flipping the switch".
I will have another opportunity to get the point across better, but I will not seek it just yet.
Appreciate the 2x4
I too am pretty disgusted...
IF your family paid for the wedding I would insist on a refund too...
Is that something I can do??
I was reading what you posted about addictive scripts and romantic love-
Yes, we can remember those days, and it's a far-cry away from where things eventually go after 2-6-12 yrs of being together.
I read some of W's quotes to people about making changes for the better, and "time to start living again."
Living does not equate to bars and clubs, as far as I'm concerned. I can see the irrational behavior- making all the changes I had suggested about her over working herself, establishing boundaries w/ her clients, taking days off, etc etc...I find it ironic that she makes those changes now, rather than a year ago or months ago...her reply a few days ago was well, "that's typically how things go."
I'm very removed from W this week- my last interaction was when she gave me her back -the anger and resentment for her having to take her dogs back, and reminding her that her R was an A.
Perhaps sheer hatred for me, perhaps just avoiding looking w/in and realizing guilt and shame.
Very sick- very much the attitude and behavior of an addict- it's always someone elses fault.
I've been doing lots of reading and I have a list of other books to get this weekend. I am excited to be able to be proud of my committment and ability to respect my M to the very end- and also give myself many months of being completely single to figure out myself again.
This will be my greatest journey- knowing that yes, I will have had significan loss, I will be able to choose my frineds again- by removing a select few whom have disrespected my M as W did; and regain my emotional independence.
Look forward to reading more of your posts
Well, your wife isnt' HIDING her affair.. she's made it public... So you have proof in court to argue a case for that extra $$ in my opinion.
It all depends on the law in your area and I am NOT a lawyer by any stretch... I was suggesting that on priniple, not as a legal entitlement...
if YOU pay for the WHOLE wedding and SHE cheats and ENDS the marriage... I would definitely be asking for a REFUND on that wedding ... WITH INTEREST...
Make SURE you collect some HARD PROOF of her affair before you get into legal stuff with her.. she WILL DENY it if she finds it to be legal achilles heel...
Your wife doens't hate you... she's messed up in the head and hates herself... she projects that onto you, but its her trust me...
Don't take ANYTHING she says or does as an ATTACK right now, she's ADDICTED... you CANNOT get PERSONAL with an addict... if you DO you get sucked into their addiction and you are BOTH addicted..
step OUT of that and find peace in your indifference.
As for being committed to the END, being committed means warning her she's making a bad choice, and leaving her to act as she chooses... she WILL crash and burn and THAT is when you will be vindicated...
She will be miserable, doubly so becuase her x-husband TOLD her it would fail and she laughed at him...
It WILL fail, all you can do is warn her, and then walk away. Not callously, just warn her and then get OUT.. she's addicted, so don't get into a conversation with her.. its a WASTE of your energy.
I know that my state is no fault- I will speak w/ L about these things though.
I just read that 20% of women marry their lovers...that's pretty crazy!
I have done the concerned H thing- it's ironic that although I know where my motives are and my respect, I come off as the STBX in deep denial claiming self-righteousness...oh well.
I've maintained NC now for a bit and will continue to do so.
I do hope that it crash and burns- there is no M now and I have no W.
I did however read a few sitches in D but not done, and I was elated to read some success stories...particularly those where the XW was embarrassed by her double life...
I will make that last stand and warn W...but not anytime soon.
Something will obviously happen- she's giving up an awful lot, not saying I'm the greatest catch- and the sad truth is the facts of the failure- I don't think too many people can sucessfully ignore that for too long
Long term relationships and Marriages borne out of affairs succeed less than 5% of the time, I have read as much as less than 1% of the time by some analysts...
Her excitement for this man will die at some point, and his for her likely even soner... and THEN the only thing keeping those two afloat will be their maturity level... They are on a sinking ship rotting at its core... they will fail.. it may take a while, but it will fail, they always do.
Don't worry about how you LOOK when the people looking at you are a bunch of ignorant children who enable infidelity and even celebrate it
You can thank Hollywood and the misic industry for romanticizing excitement and passing it off as "happiness" for decades.. the market is rife with that nonsense...
Serendipity
You've Got Mail
Sleepless in Seattle
Wedding Crashers
These films ALL ENDORSE sacrificing security and history for imipulse and excitement.. ironically they HEAVILY DOWNPLAY the waste and damage resulting from this escapism, and even try to pass it off as if it doens't do any damage at all...
These people you are surrounded by were educated on material such as the above... dont' expect respect from people so ignorant as ot believe romantic nonsense like that. You are tossing pearls before swine.
The purpose of maintaining a hold of your integrity is not for public appearance so much as for logn term peace of mind. If YOU WARN her and it fails three years from now, then you can rest at night.. if you don't warn her and even sign off on the escapism telling her you want her to be happy... when it failes, YOU will be implicated in her failure because you endorsed it.
The best think you can do is maintain your integrity and issue a solid warning and then GET OUT of the WAY.
Her entire social circle is enabling her addiction rather than supporting her in ending it... You can't fight city hall.
Once the addiction does end, and it will... THEN you can tell her "I told you so"...
The best way to respond to her infidelity is to hold onto your integrity like a lifeline and find peace in your life without her until the plane lands.
If at THAT time you DO want her back, tha'ts your choice, but I would NOT reccomend it withotu a VERY careful look at her lifestyle and social circle at the time ... if she is still acting like a teenager and hanging around marriage-threatening people then you know the risk YOU are taking full well then.
I like your numbers alot better than what I read.
I was thinking about the ferocious pace of her A...obv she was dead set on it since this is OM2. OM1 rejected her thanks to me and his GF- now she's rubbing her R in his face and being "bratty" to him. Knowing that he won't so much as speak to her she insists on saying a shreiky "HIIIIIIIIII!" everytime she sees him.
With that said- the emotional maturity of she and OM2 are not something that will sustain much for long.
When I mentioned the pace- it was an embraced (R- I mean affair)very quickly. Met the mother w/in a week, etc etc.
Two people whom were the pursuers of D, two people prob both seeking D due to "feelings", and a red hot A to mark their new journey. The brightest flame burns quickest- as James Hettfield says...
Once more is the issue of jumping right into something - I know it's the addiction aspect...I'm pretty curious to see what happens.
Again, thanks for your input. Once served I'll be posting elsewhere, hope you find me- you've been very helpful
This is just part of your great journey Maynard. A bump in the road. One where you will learn many lessons. And hopefully gain the wisdom to not repeat the mistakes
Thanks Cutter- I am seeing more and more clearly now- sure Mrs. maynard is still very much on my mind- call it love, devotion, protection, or concern...
But I'm no longer finding the rejection to be draining me like I had let it before. I'm finding solace in my vows and in my hope for providing a better M in the future- having read many M books, Communication, Esteem, Spirituality, Codependancy, etc etc.
I viewed OMs FB page- He's violently ill and asking for non prescribed prescription drugs
Not a post I would be happy about at 41ys old...
Not a lifestyle I'd want anyone I love to be involved in- but they have to make their own choices
OK Maynard...
Since talking nice to you doesn't work... here comes a different tone of voice:
What the FARK are you doing looking at OM's FB page?
Why the FARK are you obsessing about affair statistics?
Why the FARK are you not DISCONNECTING?
You need to DETACH. Do you farking get it?
That means:
1) You don't give a shirt about your WAW and what she's doing.
2) You don't give a shirt about how she greets OM1
3) You don't give a shirt about ANYTHING BUT YOU.
Look bud, I know it's hard, but you've GOT TO DO IT. Stop talking about her, thinking about her and get FARKING busy with YOUR LIFE.
As for OM1/2... they aren't the problem. SHE IS. She is broken, farked in the head and there's NOTHING you can do about it. Just drop the FARKING rope already.
- Don't worry about warning her about what a big mistake she is making.
- Stop fantasizing about the best words to use when you see her again.
She farked up. Big time. Whatever the fark she has done, is doing, and is going to do with her life IS NO LONGER YOUR CONCERN. You are going to move forward.
Sorry, bud but handling you with kid gloves doesn't seem to get the point across to you.
It's not about her anymore, it's all about you.
Do you get the POINT NOW?
And reading 10,000 books is not going to do you ANY good until you start PRACTICING the principles in those books.
This is not about READING but DOING... even when you don't feel like it. Stop torturing yourself and start healing yourself.
I read you loud and clear-
I have become very used to my sitch and yes- even to the point of obscessing.
The difference now is that it's not tearing me down like before- I am seeing that she is broken, and I am seeing that although I am thinking of her while she is definately not thinking of me- that my thoughts are no longer "woe is me."
You are absolutely right- it is better for me to not concern myself in anything having to do w/ her.
FOGHORN ALERT FOGHORN ALERT
when your obsessing journal.
when your not journal.
Trust me on this.
Cutter, sadly I have journaled twice a day for 6 months now-
The other problem I have here is all the diff sitches- reading about Divorced but not done, etc...
I will make this clear though- I have NO expectations
Appreciated!!!
Update-
Fri night W texted she had a "Big Problem and needed the dos to stay at the house."
I ignored...
10 minutes later she texts "Nevermind"
Sat afternoon she texts "Guess you're not concerned about our friendship."
No reply...
I did take a call from a Private number and it was W. Received some spew about ignoring her texts.
W said she can no longer live where she was living and that she figured things out.
She attacked me for not helping w/ "my" dogs; that if the roles were reversed and I wanted out of the M, she would gladly do what she could to help- "that's just the kind of person I am" she said.
I explained that I would happily take care of the dogs if she were not having an A. She quickly said it's not all her fault that this is happening- that her needs went unmet for too long. And, "I'm sorry if I'm not going by the rules." She also gave the lines "I'm moving on w/ my life, and I deserve to be happy." Which I somewhat validated and also cautioned her.
I validated and assured her that they would have been met had she communicated them to me and sought MC.
Sadly I was not very calm during the conversation, I appologized for getting loud and let her know how frustrating it is for me to be in this situation...I hate speaking to her b/c I know that it stresses her out, and I know that I'm the one that ends up not able to sleep, while she gets to enjoy another man and feel loved.
UGH-
I should not have answered the call.
My father e-mailed W yesterday about her loan- he's also offering to buy back her engagement ring "since it's no longer needed" and will buy down the amount owed.
I don't know how that went over, and I don't care.
At this point its full steam ahead for D.
Had a great weekend otherwise saw a few movies w/ friends, played golf, and cleand the eff out of the house.
was that on your list for important reasons to talk to wife.
You should have went with the following
HI.... oh Hi. I am just on my way out. Is there something you want?
Wife : Dogs stuff.
Me : Good thing you took care of the dog issue. Gotta go. Have a good day. Take Care
Click
Infuture.
Any R talk. You have no R. So no R talk.
She brings it up. You state that. And stay that line. Do not wavier from it.
No R no R talk.
It gets easier. And soon you will control the conversation. You will see. Stay civil. Always. Her punches will stop soon enough. And if they do not. Thats her issues. Toxic people are toxic people.
I used to tell my wife, "There are really only two things you seem to want to talk about -- our marriage, and the potential END of our marriage. I have decided that I won't talk about our marriage so long as there's a third person in it, and the other stuff is best handled by our attorneys. Gotta run (insert GAL activity here) -- bye."
Puppy
tx Cutter- I was blindsided by the private number- if it was her number, I wouldn't have answered...I saw your pic on the alt, left you a comment-
thanks for checking in- it feels so much better when I don't engage her!
If your wife texts you, or calls you, and you ingore it... and you get a private call soon afterwards.... do NOT answer it silly.. its HER from a different LINE...
Keep the exchange simple as reccomended... no marriage, no marriage talk.
EXIT due to being busy - gotta go
Cutter's points are perfect... follow that script and you will be fine
She is just trying to manipulate you, don't engage her, its NOT going to end well and you KNOW it... NEVER take the call... even if you don't know WHO it is.. let it go to voicemail.
I NEVER take my calls blind.. if it says private I let it go to voicemail... I NEVER pick up a call BLIND...
and I am not fighting an affair right now.. if I was, i would have the cell OFF
good point- I have learned that much like the article Cutter sent me- any interaction w/ W will leave me feeling worse
I didn’t read all the replies so forgive me if a lot of this has been said before.
If you haven’t already done so, file the D papers. Technically it doesn’t mean anything but it will send a message to her that you are taking a stand and not just blowing smoke. I know one couple that has filed 3 times over the course of 3 or 4 years. I wished I had done it (my W filed last year) more for own self respect and show the world I don’t put up with crap. Some of the stuff I’ve read suggest that people that filed out the gate had a higher chance of reconciling for some reason.
You are doing a decent job at NC but when you get caught talking to her get away asap. You see how you slipped there and it’s just too hard not to take jabs at her. She wanted out of the marriage so give that to her and all the consequences as well. Most find that once they are given what they want, they tend not to want it anymore.
You need to stop trying to save your marriage. The harder you try the more you will fail. If you want to save it (I have my doubts it’s worth it in your case) you need to give up on it and give in to the current reality of your situation. Move full steam for a D and if she doesn’t try to stop you in the last minute then you know she is too far gone. They only real way to reconcile is to turn the tables where you no longer care anymore and she wants you try again. She has to beg you back and she won't do that if she thinks you’ll take her back to begin with.
My wife left 3 times and this last time we made it work. The first 2 times where a mistake (too soon) and the reason why the last time worked because I stopped trying and was pushing for the D after about 3 or 4 months of NC. We’ve been back together now for 9 months and I still have her petition for a D (she wants me to throw it away) and knows that the second she thinks about messing up she will be out the door forever. We are doing really well and she said I’d have to drag her out kicking to get rid of her now.
The fact she is trying to blame you for her A shows she is still screwed up. It’s 100% her fault and until she admits that she is useless to you anyway. Women can’t love men they don’t respect and she knows she did wrong and you putting up with it by not divorcing her shows you are weak. Telling her you want a divorce and you no longer care for her as a person anymore and wish to never speak to her again would probably turn her on lol. You should do that, don’t speak to her directly and go through someone else to communicate important things that may come up. Let her know you are out of her life and fall off the face of the Earth from her POV.
This sucks I know but you will make it through one way or another. You need to work on not thinking about the her anymore and get anger if you have to to help motivate you (just don't act out, keep it inside).
Good luck.
Rob- thanks for looking in on my sitch.
I have been reluctant to file b/c I don't want the D at all. I know that you are right and my family has also put the pressure on for me to get the D started.
My reluctance does give her time to feel out Plan A (since I am clearly plan B or C at this point.) As I've learned from Om1 fizzling, it's not a guarantee that she will ever come back.
I believe what you say and I do want some kind of closure- perhaps filing will give me the boost I need as far as empowerment and esteem. After all- I have lived up to most of my vows.
I will see what I can do as far as getting in w/ L soon. My father wants me to file by the end of the week.
I'd be interested to hear more about your sitch- I will read through your story.
Maynard. You need to do everything to protect yourself from her. She is dangerous to you. You know that.
f you don't know WHO it is.. let it go to voicemail.
I NEVER take my calls blind.. if it says private I let it go to voicemail... I NEVER pick up a call BLIND...
LOL -- I'm the exact same way. I also ignore e-mails that just say something cryptic, like "Call me," or "Please call me," or "Are you available for a call?" At MOST, I'll reply with "Regarding -- ???"
Puppy
Thanks Cutter- so far so good, I'm working on getting in w/ L in the next few days and I will go ahead and file. I heard from a go between that W and MIL found a place together and may be moving out this weekend. I also learned that W has been coming off her meds, is highly stressed and has been crying more-something I have literally never seen first hand.
None of this means anything except for the moving out part. Obv I know why shes stressed but no clue about the crying.
I'm taking the advice above and freeing myself from disrespect and BS from WAW. She can have OM and wake up one day wondering how the F she got where she is...
Anyhoo, home computer is up and running so I should be able to post my thoughts at night-
Rob, tx again for the advice
If she's going off her meds, that's going to induce stress and the crying may be due to the stress as well... its all related... OM, no medication, stress, and tears... they all feed off one another.
I know- I hate the fact that now she's finally able to experience her emotions...so much has happened.
There was a point in our conversation over the weekend where she said she "just couldn't share her feelings w/ me- for some reason it was hard for (her) to share them w/ ME." I guess she stressed me as opposed to OM.
WTF?! Spew and blaming no doubt.
I broke down a little this morning- just can't believe it's unfolding this way.
Overall feeling pretty good- still seeking out the L to get this done...of course also praying that W opens her eyes or connects the dots before it's too late.
Unfortunately I cannot wait for that to happen- emotionally preparing for the end.
Finances are a wreck and I feel that much will come out in this D- her villainizing me to her "paralegal friend" has fueled contempt and no doubt "get what you can whil you can" type attitude.
W is better than that, but she's surrounded herself w/ sabre-rattling anti-Maynard army of "me, me, me's."
Maynard. When you are Dark / DIM You do not find out about her crying. Meds I can understand. But the rest. Does not matter.
You are still second guessing yourself. You are still reacting. STOP.
Your life. Take Control. You will not be able to emotionally prepair for this. You will break down again. And you will be in hell. But you need to walk through this.
You cannot handle contact nor hearing. So cut it out.
WTF do you care about spew and blaming.
Let them attack. Remain civil and do whats right.
If you continue to follow this path you will begin to hate this woman. And she was your wife. Do you want to hate a person forever?
Detach and move on with your life.
I know- I hate the fact that now she's finally able to experience her emotions...so much has happened.
Don't hate this fact. Let the realisation of what she has done fall upon her. That needs to happen.
There was a point in our conversation over the weekend where she said she "just couldn't share her feelings w/ me- for some reason it was hard for (her) to share them w/ ME." I guess she stressed me as opposed to OM.
You're mind reading. Very bad idea. We all did it. Take advice though. Stop it. You actually have no idea what she really meant and that could be a million things from nothing to the world hates her.
WTF?! Spew and blaming no doubt.
Mind reading.
Overall feeling pretty good- still seeking out the L to get this done...of course also praying that W opens her eyes or connects the dots before it's too late.
Look after you. W has plenty of hangers-on to look after her.
Finances are a wreck and I feel that much will come out in this D- her villainizing me to her "paralegal friend" has fueled contempt and no doubt "get what you can whil you can" type attitude.
No matter who she hooks up with, L's will do that ... it's nothing personal. My own take on it (and W is NOW wanting half of the house after promising not too) is that she is too dumb to see when an L is making her go to court to line their own pockets (court work is expensive :)). It's nothing personal. It's nothing personal. It's nothing personal. WAS's are just dumb.
W is better than that, but she's surrounded herself w/ sabre-rattling anti-Maynard army of "me, me, me's."
She needs justification for her actions Maynard. Having your hangers-on tell you you're doing the right thing and spoon feeding you how much better you are without you is the easiest way to do that. Maynard - this isn't about you.
This is about her and how she needs to feel that she is doing the right thing for her own sanity - regardless of whether it actually is or not.
Alot of truth spoken above... Def guilty of mind reading...
W has agreed to put off D. She claims she will nix OM and go to MC so that I will understand. She claims that she will never M again. That anyime we speak, O start to have hope and that there is none.
I have not disonnected, I was suicidal today. Its been 5-6 months since I felt like this...dont really know whats up. Guess not Galing is to blame...
I appreciate you looking in on my sitch and I really like your quote...
Feeling sick today, not going into work.
Trying to figure out some long term goals post D. Career, moving, etc.
This hole ordeal has really shook me to my core...my world was upside-down...now trying to look for what is constant in my life and what needs to stay and what should go.
I just wanted to say that I wish I found this place years ago- I wish I read the books and had the concept of M that I do now before I started the journey.
Hind sight...
Suicidal. GO GET HELP RIGHT NOW. GO TO THE DOCTOR TODAY.
EVEN IF IT IS JUST RANDOM THOUGHTS. GO.
I have never once felt suicidal. she took my innocence. she did not take my hope.
I appreciate the advice- It was more thoughts than anything. I'm being overwhelmed by the financial issues more than anything.
I have no plans or desire to act out on anything, but the general hopelessness overtook me. I was also incredibly sick w/ a stomach virus.
Managed to sleep the day away yesterday and reporting back to work today.
First time I've called out in 2 years.
Feeling a bit more myself today- the financial things will pass eventually, just have to buckle down and rethink my budget.
Not much to report- NC w/ W...spoke at length w/ my father- explained that W is moving out this weekend.
Unsure whether I want to be there to help or not.
I would be there...not to help...but to make sure that she doesn't take out something you want. If you're not worried about that; then I wouldn't be there.
1. Be there
2. Be there with a FRIEND.. do NOT be there ALONE with her while she moves out... unless you are a masochist...
3. Take inventory of everythign she takes... do NOT let her take ANYTHING that is in dispute... tell her to leave it here until the divorce is final and she can pick it up if it is hers... ESSENTIALS ONLY!
^^^^that is good advice.
When my W moved; I was there because I didn't want to leave her in the house alone. However, I wasn't worried about material things; they can always be replaced.
I agree and if I am there I will be sure to have someone there w/ me.
Sadly, I have been a masochist throughout my sitch and I have to stop doing that to myself.
I think I'm ready to throw in the towel on this whole thing. It's taken too much energy from me and I can't deal w/ someone's confusion. It's funny- when I re-read my sitch I noticed that from bomb to Christmas, I was not posting here-
I don't know whay that is, I know I found the site, but I think I was just lurking for a while.
Anyway- tonight I GAL by seeing a movie w/ some friends, and taking my dog on a walk on the beach.
Maynard - take a few days to search yourself and make sure that the anger you feel is not driving you to call it a day. You may feel like you can hang in there a little longer in a day or so.
Thx Eric-
Even writing what I did tells me everything I've been doing wrong.
I mean really, what does it matter? W is not there, W is not a W, and there is no M.
So why do I even care? I'm getting angry b/c I'm stuck w/ all the bills- and I don't make enough to cover them right now.
I'll take your challenge and give myself a few days
YOu aren't stuck with all teh bills, your W has to cover her debts when she leaves... she can't walk out and leave you with yoru balls in your hand... push back...
Hell I would tell her if she wants out, she can take the debts with HER!!!
Finances will get resolved, don't let those details overwhelm you
Established some boundaries w/ mutual friends and those supporting W's decision for an A.
Trying not to get sucked into their "defense" of ind happiness...
Tonight I GAL by seeing a movie w/ some friends and hopefully getting in w/ a foursome for some golf tomorrow.
Feeling better sitting in my own skin. Not communicating w/ W. Taking the high road.
Maynard. Stick to the high road. Its the only path to take. It frontloads the pain. But life is long.
Enjoy GAL. And keep an eye on your thoughts. You can do this
*AS IF*
Thanks CB-
As I mentioned, my "friends" tried to defend their stance on "not getting involved" or supporting W's decision by claiming the importance of "individual happiness."
UGH-
I simply told her that I understand what she's saying but that her views on M are naive- that M is a responsibility and not one to be taken lightly.
Again, this is to a couple whom were invited to our wedding.
So- I have nixed them from my life now.
Keeping clear from the vortex
Marynard - I know what it's like to cutoff joint friendships. In my sitch I lost just about all of our friend. I keep hearing "she done" let it go, "she done" - "you should just file". To be honest with you, I sometime agree with them; however, I did make a promise to God that I will keep until I just can't anymore. I've been working on detaching and that helps but I do find myself saying..."they why the heck am I married" - staying in the house with my kids (especially my D) is the reason. I'm not sure if you have kids but if you do - look at them.
Glad to see you enjoyed yourself last night!
When they say that.... They are saying. I do not want to talk about this anymore.
So you stop talking about it with them.
I hear you Eric- don't know if your friends are M, but in my case they are not-
The one girl; wonders why she and her BF are together 7 years w/o getting engaged yet. Sadly w/ her views, she may fall prey to her own naivity if she does M.
It feels good to nix a few people...I don't even care if they don't understand- I established a boundary and I have lost respect for them. But I will be civil if I see them or am invited somewhere.
No kids for me, but 3 awesome dogs, 1 mine- haven't seen the other 2 in a while- miss them terribly though
Allen, I've been reading your advice in other sitches and have a question...
W had recently removed her married name from her FB profile- should I respond to some of her friends that just b/c she's removed her M name- does not mean she is not having an A?
I still very much believe W is giving script- I believe that b/c our issues are very common and easily fixable.
I know W has done this so that she has fewer questiions to answer about her A.
As Gno mentioned, my sitch may be quite a bit diff as W has admitted the A and her intentions to D.
Should I also contact OM and let him know what I think of him?
I'm not interested in getting too involved at this point. I feel like W's admission to the A and her actions thus far to embrace the A- are enough to ward off anything from me...painting me to look as though I am in denial, etc.
Personally I would leave that one alone. It smacks of stalking to me that you're watching her FB page like that. I would make no comment about it.
She's out in the open with the A; let her friends make their own judgments.
I appreciate the advice and I too agree...facts are facts and most of them already know she is not yet D...
As for OM, I dont want too continue down the road I did before...it was easier though as both W and OM1 kept denying...now that W and OM2 are FB official- I cant really see the use in doing anything- though I would mind running into him sometime...
OK, I know I'll probably get hit w/ a few 2x4's...I also know that I should not attempt to enter WAW's mind.
That being said- why is it I am still waking up and thinking about W?
It's been a month plus since she's been out of the house and even before that she was never really here.
I understand that she has moved on, that our M is not a priority nor is any responsibility to me.
Something I did not mention...I came home last night and the dogs were here- two of hers.
I've established the boundary w/ her- and I texted her that she needs to repect it. Before I took them to the barn and left them in her office...now I'm just thinking about taking care of them anyway- as they are great company.
I know this makes her life easier and she can go be w/ OM2 or do whatever she wants to do- I'm not happy about it...actually pretty conflicted on what the right thing to do is.
Everything I cautioned W about in the early days has happened. She's a trainer and has become friends w/ all of her clients- now that entire life (business) is her new social life as well- when things were good w/ us she had little interest in socializing w/ them so unfortunately I never met most of them.
Anyway- it's about me now. I'm playing golf w/ some friends in a few hours and then I'll probably clean a bit and go out tonight.
I guess what bothers me is a 6yr R is teetering on disaster, and it only means something to me.
just had to share
Had a decent day playing golf...now back at home gonna clean up a bit and take care of the dofs. I'm still unsure of whether to send them back to W's work as this seems to be a cycle.
I can stop the cycle by keeping them where they are well taken care of and comfortable- the problem is that I established the boundary of not doing so while W is having an A.
Feel like there's no real correct answer to this one.
Have not communicated w/ W, don't really have the energy to attempt it anyway.
Trying to find something to do tonight- wish I had the ambition of dating (escaping).
At least I'm aware that it is an escape, so my motives would be wrong anyway.
I simply told her that I understand what she's saying but that her views on M are naive- that M is a responsibility and not one to be taken lightly.
Again, this is to a couple whom were invited to our wedding.
So- I have nixed them from my life now.
Keeping clear from the vortex
good idea to stay away from people who are not pro-marriage! And I think lots and lots of people underestimate the challenges of marriage! I knew there would be challenge but was clueless about what they would be- still I picked a strong guy to be my H for this reason but turns out he was waaaay more insecure than I knew!
And if your wife is a trainer (fitness?) she might be one who bases self esteem on her looks? (NOT THAT EVERY TRAINER DOES THIS!!!)
I read "nothing prepares you for marriage except for marriage." sigh!
About the dogs...tough call. I'm not kidding, but I have read about couples making custody arrangements and a schedule for the dogs. What do you think? My other thought is either say: they are hers or say you will adopt them.
Thanks newma- BTW you look great and thanks for accepting me on FB.
W is a horse trainer- sorry I wasn't more specific...bad news is the horse crowd is VERY snooty, and also very self-centered...
As for the dogs, W has been out of the house for a month now...once I found out about OM2, I told W I would not care for her 2 dogs while she was having an A. Came home the other day and the dogs were here...I reminded her to respect my boundary and no reply.
If I care for them she has amble time to knock boots w/ OM2.
Truth is I love them dearly, I will likely make an issue of at least one of them if the D proceeds.
Thanks for cheking in on me.
Maynard, I actually would take a different approach.
I would accept the responability for the dogs and NOT let HER visit them...
When you turn the dogs away, you are showing a smiliar aittitude taht she has to your marriage... set a good example of adulthood and take on the dogs I say...
But do NOT let her visit them...
I love dogs, I would never part with one, never mind two
I appreciate the advice...tomorrow I will change the locks on the house.
I did this once before but she and her paralegal friend called a locksmith and had them pop the lock.
I hate that for WAW everything now is based on legal rights and not respect or consideration...for instance the A while still LEGALLY married- yet she can calim a right to come and go b/c she's LEGALLY entitled too.
It's obv that W is in total selfish mode...everything based on feelings and on what is easiest or feels best.
Heard back from one of W's family members (JJ)... it's amazing the skewed view W and her hangers-on have of the sitch...W is seemingly w/o fault and an absolute angel...lol.
It was nice to have a conversation w/ someone who seemed to care and look at both sides w/o judging...I feel somewhat validated.
JJ also was disgusted at W's actions towards my parents and couldnt believe that W would continue to not own up and be more communicative w/ them. And claimed that MIL's position is not shared by her, and is rather typical of MIL...apparently MIL did not purse C w/ her XH, and doesn not believe in C all together.
JJ assured me she is concerned for W, that W seems to be more into night life and parties, acting more like she's 18-20...her thoughts on OM2 were equally as disapproving.
JJ has not read DR or DB, but she told me W is cake eating and needs to experience loss...be reminded of what she's missing...she has to hit a bottom.
There are no guarantees...I guess that's the key part for me to understand.
GALd by playing golf today, NC w/ W...did not bother mentioning anything about the dogs again.
maybe JJ will share her view w/ the rest of W's family-especially her mom!
I do hope so eventually...she started the conversation by saying, "I am nothing like MIL, and from hat you told me of MIL's response, I can say that sounds just like her..."
That bothers me b/c they always say if you want to know what to expect from your W, you need to see what her mother is like...not a great sign of anything to come.
Both W and MIL do not share their personal lives, they keep everything in- then come resentments, stonewalling, etc.
I know that W and JJ have a good R, that W lived w/ JJ for a while during a really difficult time in her life years ago.
I do hope that something is said or shared, but at this point I'm done w/ the hope thing...I need more help myself than my M does at this point. I've really done some damage to myself emotionally and financially.
It's funny b/c all the effort that I put into busting the A was played off as me being psyco- but when I shared it w/ JJ- she very quickly determined that I was just being aceoncerned H and seeking help from family to "intervene"...
She also said that after MIL received my last e-mail several weeks ago, and MIL told JJ I had contacted her, JJ thought to herself it was only a matter of time before I had contacted her...lol. It's funny that I am so predictable.
I'm going to stop w/ that though b/c I dont like other people knowing what I'm going to do before I do.
Feeling sick again today, going to speak w/ a Dr. about an anti-deppressant- probably should have done that a while ago.
Good call going to the doctor. Keep grounding Maynard. Everyonce in a while you need to stop. Catch your breathe and look at how far you have come.
Thanks CB, haven't heard from you in a bit, hope alls well-
Dad is becoming more and more upset w/ my sitch demanding that I do something to end it.
I'm upset b/c that has been a huge part of my faults, letting my family determine what I do w/ my life. I want to take a stand, but it looks bad when I take opposition considering the fact that W's loan is handing over my dad's head.
I'd hate to lose my family over this, but I also find it disturbing that that is even a possibility...
Then think about what is the most important to you... people who have your back or people who stab you in the back.
Found my way here all by myself.
I don't understand the whole loan thing, but when it comes right down to it, if the loan is in both your father's and your X's names, it's between the two of them. He can sue her, doesn't make you look any better or worse. Just someone who wants their money. Don't get involved if you don't have to. Simply tell your father if he wants his money, he's going to have to do something himself and you will not be a go-between. However, if your name is on it, that's a different story and you need to decide how to handle that tactfully.
Cautious- thanks for stopping by my thread.
Fortunately ithe loan is only for W and FIL- W is avoiding all reality, responsibilities- I have not gotten involved- and W hated that fact.
GNO- great point...and it is how I feel- mom and dad wont run off or "divorce" me- they love me unconditionally, so the choice is abvious.
They have commented before that it's a slap in their face to see me so willing to keep this shirt going on.
The only reason I mentioned that Maynard is because you need to be around people who will advise and support you. People who will help you rebuild yourself and whack you over the head when you step out of line.
With that said I firmly believe that you put some boundaries up with your folks too. And you need to understand that they too are hurt. A normal human reaction is to stay away from the source of the hurt (think hot stove plate).
You've started getting a life and that's good. Now you need to completely distance yourself from disruptive forces e.g. SIL, MIL, WAW etc. Your path is to get yourself healthy, strong and confident again. Anything that deviates you from that path should be avoided.
Thanks GNO- I was speaking w/ my boss about some different issues as well.
I do need to establish some boudaries w/ my parents b/c a big issue w/ me personally is the influence they have over my life and my decisions.
Sadly- my father is normally correct, but I do not feel like much of a man b/c of the influence he has over me.
It does feel alot better to not engage W, MIL, etc- I know I will have to deal w/ them w/in the next week due to them moving there things from the house.
I will take advice given to me and have someone there w/ me- to avoid any possible backslides.
I do need to establish some boudaries w/ my parents b/c a big issue w/ me personally is the influence they have over my life and my decisions.
Separate your personal issues from resentment. A man will listen to all the advice he receives, weigh the pro's and con's of all of it and then make a decision and stick to it.
Sadly- my father is normally correct, but I do not feel like much of a man b/c of the influence he has over me.
Then start listening more closely to your father. Do not resent his wisdom. He has seen more of life and its pitfalls than you have. There are a lot of things you can learn from him -- and you know he has your best interests at heart. Sometimes parents say the right things but in the wrong way. Try discern what he is telling you and ignore the medium (e.g. condescending tone etc) that he uses to deliver the message.
Learn from the mistakes of others. You can learn something from everyone around you -- if you look for it.
Maynard. Perhaps one of the journeys you are undertaking is growing up and becoming a man. As you gain more and more control of your life you will accept and take on more responsibilities. You will know that when you made a mistake that you can state that you were wrong and correct the issue and learn from it.
This will change the dynamics in your relationship with your father.
I am going to recommend that you begin to treat this relationship as a Man to Man relationship and start to show him actions instead of words. They see their child hurting and not advancing so they act like parents to a child. It is natural.
The money issue. Offer your advice to your dad on his choices then end the conversation that you leave it in his capable hands to handle.
I would also recommend that you take everything she is moving out and move it into the garage. That way it can be taken from there and not from the house.
It will be a difficult day. Ground yourself. And you will be tested. You will end up alone for a few minutes. It is at this brief seconds in that you will have to make a choice.
The question is very simple.
Am I in control of my life?
IF your answer is NO. Then you know that this is your only purpose in life. Control.
If your answer is Yes. Then begin then to control your life, right at that moment. You will have the most important one way conversation that you have ever had. And the first foundation in your new life.
This is what is coming up Maynard. There is nothing you can do to prepare for this moment except clean your head and exercise. Make sure you exercise before she arrives. Feed off that good workout of the body on your soul.
You are absolutely right about my father being in parenting mode right now. Sadly, I have been far too emotional and counter-productive in the way I've handled things. I do, however, not want him to dictate where I go from here.
That being said- I do need to establish control in my life- something I have had for many years now, but have not kept my impulse in check due to poor coping skills in this sitch.
As for the one way conversation- not sure what you mean, but hopefully I will find myself having it.
Feeling pretty good this morning. Not focusing too much on my sitch. NC still in effect. Haven't heard anythig from W regarding her move, I think it is finalized 3/14.
Have't spoken to parents they are in N Carolina for my Uncle...wish I were there.
GAL-ing during the week is not something I am good at doing...tonight I hit a meeting w/ my friend so that will e a little different. Still waiting to get in w/ my Dr. for some medication to help me w/ my lows.
maynard, I guess I should tell you that I'm studying to be in the pharmaceutical field and leave it as easy to figure out as that. Hate revealing too much about myself online. Anyway, after reading through the side effects and how these medications work, I would say that you'd be better off with chocolate cake three times a day.
Without going too much in detail (I just typed a bunch and decided to delete it), I feel like what you're going through is normal and these types of medications aren't a quick fix. It takes about 2-3 weeks to BEGIN working, and then when you feel "better" you can't just drop them; you have to gradually step down off of them or risk dangerous side effects (some even physical symptoms like muscle spasms). Then there's all those crazy side effects when you ARE on them: disorientation, memory lapses, dizziness, drowsiness, suicidal thoughts, etc.
Just promise me you'll think about what I'm saying here and discuss it with your doctor. Even when my doctor offered to put me on "low dose" anti-D's, I had an episode where I was driving my S5 down the road and suddenly had to pull over and ask S5 where we were going. My son became the parent and I became the child... that's never right.
Again, it's possible that you do suffer from some sort of depression or even bi-polar (I'm not a doctor, can't diagnose) that isn't caused by these external factors, so please do tell your doctor what's going on and discuss it with him.
Oh and I think NC during the move is GOOD. She may be expecting you to offer to help, and isn't getting that satisfaction.
Thanks Cautious- I had been adamant about not going on any meds as I have once before- 10 years ago and it was hell coming off of them.
I will keep that in mind.
I've been less involved in my sitch now and that seems to be helping my moods-- they are up and down though.
Just got home and noticed that W was here today...w/ golf on Sun never got around to the locks. Her coffee cup was out. I believe she checked my history and did some reading- b/c the DB site was expanded w/ all the threads I had posted in.
Nothing here is a secret, yes its anonymous but not like I'm making things up...anyone have any recommendations if she indeed discovered our thread?
Yup, one recommendation: "Who cares?"
Yup, one recommendation: "Who cares?"
+1
Change your LOCKS.. NOW
Re the forum... she can't stop you from using it...
Change your LOCKS... NOW
Re her coffee cup... email her and tell her next time she comes by to spy on you that she can clean her dishes when she's done...
Change your LOCKS... NOW
Change your LOCKS... NOW
Change your LOCKS.. NOW
.. why are you still here?
... Why haven't you changed your locks yet?
Bet your W is jealous of all the support you're getting here while she's faltering looking for someone to approve of her R. You're doing the right thing, it's tough doing the wrong thing. Oh yeah and CHANGE YOUR LOCKS. Your place is no longer her business or her place. She doesn't have the right to be there. Whether she (or you) like it or not. You can't barge into her place, why offer her the same luxury?
As far as I'm concerned, you're welcome to start taking the advice I just posted to whitney down in DBND. Her foundation is cracking and she's ready for a little dose of the medication I prescribed there.
Ok, took care of business.
NC is still in effect. Making B-day plans this wkend w/ my friend whom shares the same B-day. Gotta clean up a bit around the house this evening.
There's an interesting article this morning on marriages on MSN, they quote MWD within the text...
In the early years of my marriage, I envisioned our lives as being joined at the hip. He didn't," she says. "At first I was miserable, but then I started going places by myself and I became much more independent. I never, ever would have done that had it not been for his stubbornness."
Feeling pretty good today, Dr.s appt is contingent on a cancellation, not sure if I need the meds now, but I've also said that before months ago.
Not much else going on, still have love for my W, but no longer reeling in my head about timing, what ifs, or yea buts...starting to compartmentalize things and be better focused at work.
There was a sitch yesterday...this female coworker whom is a b&*ch was ranting about some stuff, I challenged her and she accused me of not doing my job (I cant do mine until she finishes hers...)
she commented right infront of my boss, "I can see why your W cheats on you..."
When she left the office I told my boss this was the 2nd time she's made a comment like that and if she does it again, I cannot be held rsponsible for what I will say to her.
She is a single mom, never married and there is a HUGE reason why the man left her, I love women and have a lot of respect for single mothers, and mostly anyone I meet, but this individual is SATAN himself...
My boss was understanding and said he'd speak to her...
I truly cannot believe some people.
If that co-worker says that again, just say to her "Wow. That is SO unprofessional, and -- to be honest -- very unattractive. Wow."
Puppy
Definately a more responsible reply than what I have had planned...high road it will be
Absolutely, don't stoop to her low blow level. I don't know that I'd include the "unattractive" part, though. Could easily be twisted into a sexual harrassment accusation, should she actually decide to take that road out of anger.
maynard, I'm glad you're feeling awesome today. The warm weather is definitely helping us all GAL. I'm warming up for a LOT of putt putt in the future, as I no-so-secretly love golf. Challenged my HS senior cousin and now he's coming in town for a round.
I hope you have one heck of a birthday weekend, and remember I'm here to talk... like a million times per day, since offering advice seems to be keeping me "up" at the moment. Plus, my sitch is somewhat keeping me up at night, unfortunately.
I know what you mean- the best thing I've done is getting more involved in other sitches and not digging in full force in my own "misery."
Are you on the alt?
The plan for St is a round of golf then dinner at a local steak joint.
Keeping things going in a positive direction- keeping Dark and PMA- not really concerning myself w/ things that are not immediately in my life.
OK, still doing well w/ NC, but I am having a moment here where I am SO FRUSTRATED that W will not end her A as she said she would a week ago.
I understand the addictive nature of the A- I'm temporarily consumed by the frustration of the fact that nothing positive can take place reg our R until the A has ended.
Guess this is just a rant...UUGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
I will be filing early next week...still NC, and feeling pretty good about it. I will also spend this evening and tomorrow, moving W's belongings into the garage.
I will continue NC until W is served and hopefully until the D takes place.
She has only admitted to still being confused and not knowing what she wants. I find that the NC really is the best way to go for ones-self...I have processed many emotions and have attained moments of "whatever"- I guess that's indifference.
Allen I'm open to your advice on the filing. I know that it's not truly what I want as an end result- so I'm a bit on the fence I suppose.
I understand that patience is required in this as well, perhaps I'm jumping the gun.
I had offered a while back that W attend Retrouvaille w/ me prior to D-ing...I have not mentioned it since, but I have pre-registered for one nearby in April.
Need some insight please
didn't mean to single out Allen, obv I am open to as many views as possible...
Maynard - I have not read your entire sitch..but why R u going to file?
Hi, Maynard,
I just caught up on your thread! Wanted to say a few things:
1)Cautious makes a good point about just being sad as a normal reaction to this traumatic event and that it doesn't mean you have a disorder. But we all react differently to anti Ds and if you get suicidal thoughts (although I read that most of us wish we were dead when this first happens to us) then by all means do not wait for them to disappear-get to thee doc now.
(but in the recent posts you sound better)
2)That woman in your office is a huge B!TCH! I think if you responded with something like "You must have a very hard life to find joy in others' misfortune. Excuse me but I have to do something." And walk away.
3)Why are you in a rush to file for D? Have you consider filing for legal separation first?
4)When is your B-day???
In my Darkness- I've come to believe that so much damage has been done to myself and my family...that W has character assassinated me to the nth degree and shows no remorse for any of her actions.
I know that some of this can change w/ time- but I do not believe that I can be w/ someone like this. I am forgiving, and I will love her unconditionally- BUT I don't see W coming back, and I sure as Hell will not be her friend after the D.
I just don't know if I can keep going w/ this only to be served by the cheating and lying party....
My conflict is that I do believe in M, and I do not believe in D...so hense the fence-sitting
Maynard. File. Protect yourself. Its a piece of paper. Legal protection very important. Remember that. Whats in your heart and whats in reality are very far apart. Good thing you have your mind to balance that.
Do what is right. This is the right step.
3/13 is Bday
Yes, the girl in the office is a B*tch
No legal Sep in my state
Not entirely confident in my decision to file but feeling some inner strength to be done w/ it and w/ her FOR GOOD.
Still love her, still believe in M, just don't have much faith in W at this time
Well then, filing starts like a piece of paper like Cbug said. It can take a long time to actually divorce.
Since you don't have kids then it will be less paperwork and classes, etc. if you do complete the D.
There will not be less emotional pain. But you can be cut from her.
JUST MAKE SURE that you are filing for the D because you want to cut her out of your life, NOT because you hope it will "wake her up" or bring her back.
Naturally, there is a little thought that it will shake her- but I do feel it is more fo me at this time.
r
I will not date while still M, nor will I deal w/ this crap anymore.
I want it, she doesn't, I'm willing to work for it, W isn't.
I'll further contemplate the sitch
Maynard, sorry for telling you to date!
I was trying to say w/out being inappropriate that you wouldn't have a problem!
NM - Quit wiggling your eyebrows at him! LoL J/K
Hey, Maynard - Sorry for the conundrum! We'll pray for ya!
Thanks Newma and Mindfull
I do appreciate the complement...
Emotionally not in a great place for anyone and the dating thing would be completely self-serving at this time
Maynard -
Outside of feeling a better now that it is over what do you gain by filing?
I'm not happy that you ask a question like that- it really requires me to think.
You are correct- I guess my wanting or intent to file is no different than W's- it's it make me feel better...
I want to look at the facts as well:
W seriously betrayed me w/ OM1- she told him everything about me-my warts and all- things only she and 3 people know about my past
W has created a new world for herself and character assassinated me to the people occupying that world.
W- in her fog has completly disresepected me and my family
W is a PROUD woman and will not likely recant her decisions, nor be willing to "eat crow" to her friends...
W is having an A- and although confessing to me that she is confused- she has not or will not admit that to anyone else.
AW is not the person I want to be w/...I'm sure she may change- but I fear that I will have changed too much to be willing to go back
If it's a matter of forgiveness- I know that w/ a whole hearted effort on her part to Piece- I will be able to forgive lovingly
W/o that effort on W's part, my forgiveness will cost us our friendship...
I believe that I am worth more and I also believe that W simply will not file b/c she doesn't want the added guilt...
That's all I can think of right now
Maynard,
These are all good points that you have put forth and only you can truly know when you have had enough. You haven't made any quick decisions yet but sit on it for a given time to really come to that conclusion. Serenity13 just came to the conclusion to file but after alot of thought and prayer. There is no right or wrong answer and you will have support either way.
thanks 4luv- I will take the remainder of the week during NC to further contemplate and pray...
NC might be broken this wk/end due to W's moving...I believe I will construct a way where I will not have to see it or deal w/ it.
Maynard - as 4luv pointed out all very good reason. I just want you to make sure that you are really done. You may have a little left in you but trust me I am not judging you. Either way you go - I know that you will be fine.
God Bless
Eric I am going to disagree with you on this. And it is the reason why I am recommending Maynard to file.
W is an addict who is financially unstable. Sometimes you need to break the marriage to protect a part of it. She is going to cost maynard a ton of grief if he is held financially accountable for her actions. And again I am going to repeat this. Her actions.
This is one of the purest forms of tough love. Doing what is right. He has offered unconditional love to her. She has responded by grabbing a new shovel. And she continues to dig. Reality. Maynard needs to protect himself. To grow and heal. To prepare for his future he needs to secure the present.
Her actions speak very loudly.
I have been with maynard since he joined. I offer this advice freely to him. As I know his stitch very well. I have spent many hours of my life helping him.
No offence intended my friend. ( You too newmama )
Just our opinions are different.
Chatter - Point taken. I was not aware of the whole sitch..my only point was that he needs to be sure - that's all. If she is an addict then I would agree he should file and call it a day.
As I mentioned I will take through the weekend- I should have done a better job w/ the NC before- it has really allowed me to sep. myself from the drama and sitch...
I appreciate all of the advice and I know that even if/when I file- I was still willing to do anything- W was not...
CB I def apprecitae the many hours you've put in for me...I'll see you soon I hope
OK- SITUATION-
I have not issued a NC letter or e-mail to W.
I just got a text:
"Can you call me?"
I do not want to be rude and ignore her, but I'm wondering if that's what I need to be doing...
Obv I will not reply right away, I'd like to get some feedback-
I pretty much know what I need or should do-
reply later:
Call you whaen I can
If I speak to her-
Brief, PMA, etc...
My gut says not to respond at all- but then I think about civility...
please weigh in
Excuse me if I'm stupid or missed something... but she texted you "Can you call me?" That means if she wants to speak to you, she has your number.
This is just another ploy to see if you're still willing to jump through her hoops. IGNORE. If she wants to speak to you she will call. Or find another way to speak to you.
Done.
Maynard -
Remember I'm still new to this shitz so take what i say with a grain of salt.
I would...wait for a bit and if YOU do not want to speak to her then text her back and ask.."what's up". It may at least give you an opportunity to see what she wants to talk about.
Remember I am new to this so I would wait to see what CB says.
GNO- good call-
I'm pretty sure no one on these threads could mistake you for stupid
thanks also eric-
GNO- you make me laugh at myself- thank you fo that
Maynard
Just finished reading through your thread and snipped some great stuff from all of you.
I am LOL while I was reading the thread here at the end. W texts me "Call me when you get a chance. No rush." I texted "Regarding?" W "Nothing really just to talk" Me "I told you I'm here to talk whenever u want to talk. That means you dial my number and if I'm available I will answer. If you leave me a message I will get back to you at my earliest opportunity."
WTF?
I'm sorry where this has gone for you. I think you have done and amazing job from what I can tell being new to this.
Something to think about I know you can file in Florida without an attorney. Just pay for the filing fees and all the forms etc are online in your county. You don't have kids so you may even can do an uncontested D. Lawyers job is cultivate adversity and bill for it. She may be too unreasonble for this but it's worth a shot.
I am over in the MLC section and a lot of these folks here on your thread have already given me some great advice.
I know where you are with obsessing on the A. I breath it everyday. Just try to control your thoughts and take that power back for you.
I'll check in on ya. Raining where I am in the Sunshine State today.
Grit
Maynard, I gotta go with the Gno on this. She's not in control of your sitch, YOU ARE!!!
Kinda pissed- just realized her move will be taking place on my B-day- Awesome!!
I have plans to play golf then dinner w/ a few friends...I'd like to have W put it off till Sun out of respect. I don't want her to be here w/ MIL by themselves nor do I want to have to deal w/ a moveout on my B-day.
At the same time- I don't want to jam them up I know what moving day is like and you just want to knock it out...
what to do, what to do...
Kinda pissed- just realized her move will be taking place on my B-day- Awesome!!
You're kidding right? Tell me you're freakin' kidding. This
IS awesome!!! You're getting the best BDay gift EVER!
Here's what you're going to do... you're going to invite ALL your co-workers (except for the bitch of course) and friends and throw one HELLUVA big party. You're going to celebrate both your birthday and your freedom on the exact same day.
I have plans to play golf then dinner w/ a few friends...
Cancel them and rearrange for the above.
I'm sorry, maybe I didn't get this before, maynard... she's moving OUT of YOUR house?
Then she made the moving date your birthday just to get under your skin and make sure you're NOT having a good time on your birthday. Tell her the house will be unavailable until you're around to monitor what is being taken from you, things in dispute can be set aside and disputed in court. If she's mad you want to take your birthday off for yourself - let her be mad. It's YOUR good time she's out to ruin.
God, even I'VE played that game - monopolizing EX's time so SOMEONE ELSE isn't. Duh.
Yea, I know that the move date had been pushed back a few times, W physically has not lived here since 1/28...MIL had issues w/ her job so a few places fell through.
I'm torn between GNO's idea, and just having the place locked down on Sat...sad thing is I know if W is motivated she will pay a locksmith to pop the lock AGAIN...
So I'm leaning to GNO's idea.
And you know not to reply back.... Is it on your list of important issues to reply back to....
Lets see... Random text call me.... Ummmm No.
Nothing to see here move along. Do not reply back at all to anything unless it is actually important to you.
Yeah, no need for angry people to break into your house. though if she makes a scene in front of a party of friends, she'll quickly be arrested/escorted out. You DEFINITELY need to be present while she's removing items, though. Never know what a person would do in that position.
I agree- still haven't gone over the specifics yet.
Feeling pretty good still...haven't been prescribed anything yet- hoping I've turned a corner...NC is probably the best thing I've doe or could do for myself...I was tempted to issue an e-mail instructing her to go through my friend.
I don't feel it's necessary- W doesn't really contact me anyway- it's almost like we're both going NC.
This weekend will be an exception to some extent...not really anxious about it- once I hear her plans I'll coordinate w/ my golf buddies to see if they are available- I'd like to knock out what we can then go about our day and W will need to wait to finish for Sunday.
I've been guilty of day dreaming that OM will be there w/ the moving truck...I'd make him park on the street and not set foot on the property...I don't know- sick fantasies I guess.
She expects you to be mean and impolite to the OM. Have you considered being polite to him if he's there? That would throw her for a loop - especially if he's the one raising a fuss.
Her internal dialogue: Well, maynard sure is being nice and civil to OM, why can't he behave himself civilly?
That's a lesson I learned too late from a friend who was constantly reminding me to behave kindly to OW, even though she was making constant phone calls to my house insulting me through my answering machine. Don't even know where she got the number. And she's gone, baby, gone now!
Good luck in however you choose to handle this situation. And HAPPY BIRTHDAY. You have every right to feel good - you're doing the right thing, discovering your patience. It's hard to keep going through this process when the WAS's anger cuts you to the core, and she has absolutely tried with you. Sometimes they don't realize how petty they're being until they've had time to reflect - they're just acting on instinct... and instinct has a way of always wanting revenge, even for imaginary wrongs.
I thought the move was taking place back in Feb at one point and I made it clear to W that out of respect it should be W and MIL only...she claimed to be willing to abide by that.
I've had one previous sitch back before I got sober where my XGF was moving out of her place...I just happened to be nearby and could see the moving van...there was no indication that she was going to move at the time...I tried to recover some belongings and met her OM, now H, it was a terrible experience...
My current sitch has been so messy- I can see why everyone suggests being prepared for the worst...I don't understand how things sour so much, I guess you are right that it is based off of anger, frustration and contempt...
Maynard - Glad you are feeling okay. I just found proof that the EA is more than likely a PA. This freaking sucks.
F that. OM has no right to come over. If he steps one foot on your lawn. You tell him to step off or you will call the police. Make sure you have backup with you and your phone in your hand.
One foot. As soon as he does that you call the police.
Your house has suffered enough disrespect. Do not tolerate any more.
P.S. I do not think you will see him at all. But prepare for the worst
Thanks CB- I agree that I should be prepared for anything at this point
Update-
W says she's completely off her meds now, says she's def feeling more.
She's not interested in dividing our things yet, the move this weekend is only for her mom's things.
W says she doesn't know what she wants, that she wants to take time for herself.
My replies-
good (that she's feeling more)
maybe see u tomorrow...drive safe
________________
OK, so tonight I GAL by seeing a movie w/ a friend from work
tomorrow I see W and play golf, then go out to eat w/ my friends.
And I'm starting P90X tomorrow morning-
I did the program prior to the bomb- best shape of my life...time to get back there...
Going to remain DARK
Shoot, Maynard! I'll be about 30 days behind you on the P90X...
Glad to hear from someone else whose done it! Good Luck w/the move stuff, and HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! FORE!
I heard Insanity is good too. I kind of hate traditional exercise, though.
There sure are a lot of differing views on how to handle different sitches here lately. Kind of discouraging when people shoot down my ideas and I try my hardest to see where their opinion comes from.
Everyone has their opinions and EVERY SITCH IS DIFFERENT...a lot of the advice I've taken has possibly not been the best- but the intentions were good, and I weighed my options- I am open to all opinions.
Don't stop giving advice as long as it's coming from a good place.
The best advice I have to give to someone else is to not do what I did- EVERYTHING I DID that was my own idea, was WRONG---I had much better results taking advice from others.
Thanks MINDFULL-- don't know if you've dopne it before, but it's pretty intense I'm looking forward to it again...I was hooked last time- the better shape I got in the more obscessed I became, so be careful- W hated it
There sure are a lot of differing views on how to handle different sitches here lately. Kind of discouraging when people shoot down my ideas and I try my hardest to see where their opinion comes from.
Cautious, don't be discouraged. Keep posting. If someone doesn't agree with your ideas... Don't take it personally. If you need clarification: Ask WHY. I'm sure there are a lot of people that don't agree with my viewpoints. And yes, it's discouraging when you see people making mistakes and suffering when they didn't have to.
It's part of the learning process. Everyone has different experience and is at different levels. You can't force anyone to do anything. They will make their decisions (right or wrong) based on their own perception at the time.
You may find someone saying the same thing as you did earlier, but that person had a different presentation to you. The way they write it resonates better with the thread owner at the time. I've had this happen with me. Don't take it personally.
Remember: The ultimate goal is to help the thread owner.
I heard Insanity is good too. I kind of hate traditional exercise, though.
There sure are a lot of differing views on how to handle different sitches here lately. Kind of discouraging when people shoot down my ideas and I try my hardest to see where their opinion comes from.
Well my POV comes from the stance of self respect. OM2 is a piece of chit. And she no longer dictates maynard's life and what he has to suffer. That is now his choice. I made that point to my exwife right at the beginning. No OM on the street even. I even said. "This house has suffered enough disrespect. It will suffer no more." She got the point very clearly as I never said another word afterwards. I just stared in the eyes and then walked away.
If he came on the street I would have defended my self respect. A douchebag is a douchebag. No matter what car he drives.
Alright had a good GAL last night...kinda tired but shot some pool and saw a great movie...sadly the person I was w/ really just reinforced some of my feeling for W...but thats OK too, not like I'm gonna just get over her like that...I was funny, witty, and confident, so that felt pretty good.
Today is my B-day...W was second person to text me...about to run out and play golf so should be a pretty busy day.
Probably will see W later this afternoon, so that will be a bit of a test for me...haven't seen her in 2 wks now I think..,.
Oh man, stay strong, maynard.
From how I see it, when GALing, if you're thinking about WAS, you're probably not having a very good time. So I find it acceptable to exit whatever I'm doing and leave if I can't get Ex off my mind. Otherwise I feel like I'm ruining everyone else's good time. Seems like you were pretty good at setting your feelings for W aside, though.
I was funny, witty, and confident, so that felt pretty good.
How is that different from any other day?
Good luck today and stay strong! You're doing so well!
yea, my friend is aware of the sitch- I didn't talk about it at all, but i just looked at my friend and although she is nice and caring, she is nothing like W- and so I missed W, even though it was a pleasant change to be w/ someone nice, and caring...lol
Golf was fun, just cleaning the pool now, gonna take a break and nap...then dinner at 9 pm...ugh W just got here...
Hoping for good things for you, maynard! I'll be on pins and needles until I hear how it goes!
Alright...W left a bit ago, she showed up w/ her friend...the one that I knew personally and whom I had reached out to back in Oct...
I had PMA and was doing well...W disappeared, I guess to get changed...I could not help but get into a conversation w/ her friend...turns out her friend is Aetheist, and is privy to lots of W's feelings...everything has to do w/ W not having the feelings she should have.
I confronted friend about her not stepping up back in Oct...she is all about personal happiness and never once made a stand for therapy or anything else...Unfortunately I did challenge her, so probably will not help me at all, she contradicted herslef MANY times throughout the conversation.
It appears as though happenstance is a huge part of my sitch- the type of friends W has, their own politics or life perspectives, etc...it was always doomed...
W and I spoke candidly for 2 minutes...she still claims to just want to get settled, to figure out what she wants...she admits to genuine saddness over our sitch, and that's all, saddness- that nothing was what had been planned...
In the meantime- unconfirmed by W, she is still in a R w/ OM, she will be here tomorrow w/ the same friend and MIL to get MIL's things...and that is that.
W gave me a great hug, perhaps the best one we've had in years...i tried to pull away, but she held it for quite a bit longer.
I dont know what to think...I know that if she's trying to figure out what she wants, OM will have "single" on his FB page...and that is not the case.
She is still cake-eating, I am tempted to have W move all her shirt tomorrow...I will wait for advice befoe I ask her to do so.
Overall, an OK experience- there was no pursuing (unless my conversation w/ her friend was seen as such), there was no begging, no crying, no pressuring...
I did make mention of having been out w/ someone else- W's eyes widened...I did admit that it just felt wrong...
BTW- an intial conversation regarded Tiger Woods...I used to play his video game religiously, I explained that I had no respect for him and have thrown out the game as a result of his actions...this was an odd conversation and things seemed tense as a result...
Dinner in 2 hrs...looking forward to getting out of my head.
No hugs.... Maynard. And no pursuing via her friends. But all in all maynard. Class all the way. I am proud of you my friend. A hard day is done. Next time control the conversation. And only have it about topics that are on your list of important items to discuss. If anything else comes up. Ignore.
Again. No hugs. Do not physically come within 2 inches of her. Have a good evening. I was thinking of you all day.
http://gettingpastyourpast.wordpress.com/2010/03/10/watching-the-detectives/#more-5954For you.
I would never had the hug in the first place.
Put her things on teh front lawn and tell her she's not welcome in your home anymore.
Her friend is confusing "infatuation" with "happiness"... they are NOT the same thing.
It's not pursuing if you are just trying to educate her friend. But since those two are hanging out, she's clearly supporting the whole mess... so I don't think you will get very far on that route...
It WILL END eventually, a mess will result. It may take a few years, but it will END and she will regret what she's doing.
I would NEVER tell her I was out with someone else.. I would never have GONE OUT with someone else...
You are still married yes? Then SHOW IT... you just VALIDATED ALL OF HER BEHAVIOUR when you did that...
You are supposed to be setting an example for her AND for you...
Do NOT DATE until your divorce is FINAL.
You are in NO EMOTIONAL STATE to be getting involved with someone else right now anywyas... be considerate to OTHERS by not getting them involved in your life right now... they will just end up hurt.
You need to focus on showing an example here, for yourself to maintain your marraiges' integrity and to her friends and yours.
If you don't want to look desperate and crazy, then don't start acting like your wife and start cheating on her... that's NOT going to improve the sitauation... and...
If it was just a lie, then you still aren't helping anyone by announcing that.
And yes, I saw you said it "felt wrong"...
THAT can be translated by HER as you just not finding the right person yet...
If you are married then you should SHOW that by NOT dating and NOT accouncing you are...
You are sending the WRONG message by doing that.
I think I would confront your W about how much she's going to pay you to store the rest of her possessions. I'm in a really dark place right now, could someone please soften that sentiment up for me?
But really, as long as her things are there, she has a reason to keep coming by and interupting your life and causing you anxiety and discomfort.
Hoping your dinner went well! Happy birthday, friend.
I agree...I let W know that I was on a blind date once...just as friends and that there was no attfraction there-- thank goodness...you are right, I can see that it only encourages her.
It really does suck, being in recovery, we are encouraged to always share our feelings and our honesty...in this sitch feelings are not to be discussed at all.
Kind of interesting.
I agree about the hug- it was initiated by W, I will do better to keep clear of her...I can see that her holding it longer was control...and unfortunately it worked.
After all, I am the one journaling or writing about it...lol.
CB- thanks for thinking of me- I know the hug was wrong...sometimes I can't help but thnk it will be the last time...shame on me.
Maynard, if you take every crumb she is going to offer you, you will never be offered better.
You deserve better... tell her that.
If she tries to hug you, you put your hand up and tell her "NO"
She is gonna get pissed or pout or whatever, its all an attempt to manipulate you to YOUR detriment... short term for HER, she gets to feel less guilty, long term for you is you take longer to detach.
She's using you.
Next time she tries that tell her
"You didn't want me remember... ?"
And you cross your arms and direct her to get her things and go.
I agree with earlier post, take it to a neutral place or something and tell her to pick it up there.
Do NOT do her ANY favours by delivering it to her. Take it to YOUR friend's place who does NOT agree with what she is doing and tell her she can find it all there and make arrangements with your friend.
Wayward spouses pull this stunt of picking up things all the damn time.. they drag out the pain and use you while softening their guilt at the same time... do NOT allow it... get her crap out of there.. with NO NOTICE to her... put it at your pal's place and AFTER its all moved you tell your wife where she can get it... no apology or explanation.
MOVE it someplace NEUTRAL with NO WARNING to her.. NOW
Thanks Allen...unfortunately I just got back from dinner; so I dont have time to get it to a neutral spot. I'm gonna pack up what I can so the move doesnt take long.
W and I went back and forth via text.
M- I've been thinking, if you're unwilling to end your affair you should take all your things tomorrow.
W- I will take all my things
M- why would you lie then?
W- what did I lie about?
M- how can you pretend to be taking time for yourself while having an affair?
W- my relationship is not involved, I have plenty of time for myself.
M- Your affair hurts me deeply; I cannot speak to you until its over. I married you for life. When you are willing to address the issues of the M we can talk...take care
I'm embarrassed to put this here b/c I know its probably not right, but I want to be honest about the sitch.
Dinner was basically ruined for me- I was completely in my head, wondering how the heck I got to where I am and what the heck is wrong w/ W that she can't see how easy things are to address.
She's ade her work life SO important that I faded out into the background, then she cut me out.
No matter now, I suppose- this is where I am.
I see all of my issues and even hers, but I cannot fix her, only me.
I hate it b/c we are right for one another, b/c our issues are so similar- I had great cinversation a=over dinner w/ 2 of my friends...not typical guy talk, but rather issues regarding core trauma and addressing issues of the psyche...conversations that escaped W and I for 6 years...always glossing over things and never having deep emotional conversations.
I know next time will be different, will be better...I hoped to only M once and it bothers me that I've learned what I have too late for this M.
I know that I will have less regret than W b/c yes I see the issues now, but have been willing to address them and salvage something...that should make me feel better, but it does not.
ALL 2x4s WELCOMED...sorry to let you guys down, I'm fairly confident that the texts were inappropriate.
Also, I learned yet again that seeing or speaking to W only hurts me- I was hoping after 2 weeks of not seeing her I would have had more detchment and be less apt to being hurt...sadly thats not the case
Ok Maynard...
Detachment is NOT supposed to be like a two week vacation and you go back for more abuse.
You are supposed to protect yourself until your wife grows up, or until divorce is easy for you and in no way painful.
The texts should not have happened at all no... you knew that.
And do NOT pack up her things FOR HER so the move is faster.. toss them in a box and throw them someplace...
DO NOT let her USE YOU.. NOW she has you using her to PACK her THINGS... she knows if she takes her time, YOU will pack for her... don't be a damn fool.
And I think puppy's right, stop calling it an affair, call it infidelity, it has a lot more negative tone to it.
Stop talking to your wife, you know its useless.
Do NOT expect that it will take you just two weeks to detach and have an objective exchang with her.
I am going to prescribe you at LEAST a six to nine month protection phase before you can have an exchange with her where you can STOP her when she tries to use you or hurt you.
Right now you are WAY TOO VULNERABLE to deal with her... and you seem to refuse to take a friend with you to protect you either... STOP the EXCHANGE.. get her crap out of your house.. ASAP
And change the damn locks.
shes here at 10am w/ the truck, I have no way of getting things somewhere else...my friend has agreed to come over for the move...I really dont want to be here at all for it...on the other hand I am tempted to PMA and assist w/ the move.
I dont want to be here alone b/c I'm tempted to give MIL a piece of my mind...basically tell her that in a year or so, she will deal w/ W's regret and wish she had been a better influence by challenging W to try something different-am I projecting or what?!
None of this shirt should even concern me, what the heck is my problem?
NC was so much better- I felt better, etc...I have anxiety just knowing I have to see W again tomorrow.
I want to do everything wrong- pursue, pressure, teach, yell, and I am not one to yell.
I understand that letting go is the name of the game-
Allen- I'm not following your prescription for 6-9mnths...are you saying go NC for that long?
Cant sleep a wink...probably gonna look like shirt for her move...ugh.
Not going to pursue or be a d&*k...PMA and strictly business...once everythings gone going NC.
Cant believe this is happening, I knew it was coming down the road, but now its in 5 hours.
Haven't seen MIL in a year...dont know how well I can fake being pleasant around her...
Starting to believe that the M never stood a chance, starting to think I was used from day one. W gets a business out of the deal, and in turn the dream she always wanted and a while slew of friends...I get nothing- just an XW and some heartache.
D is a funny thing...perhaps one of the most difficult times in someone's life- the funny part is its the one painful experience where you cannot rely on support from your spouse...
Gonna try to get a game of golf in hopefully by noon or so...tomorrow I will be free of the pop-ins, the "favors", the vortex...I'm sure I'll still think about her, but I no longer have to wonder if I'll see her car in the drive.
I'm really effing depressed, this is not what I want, I would do anything to stop it. I dont want to sound selfish, but seriously this is perhaps the most unecessary loss I've ever witnessed...I know it goes for most sitches as well.
I need to walk away just as quickly as W is...I feel like there was never anything there between us now...like she was always going to leave...no therapy, no communication, no pleading on her part to have things be better...how can she act as though she ever cared about the M if these things NEVER happened?!
I wish I could forget her all together, I wish there was no room for her in my head or heart...she haunts me...I am the one thinking about turning back time, I am the one thinking about every last interaction or scanning our history for hints and clues...I'm the only one left who cares or has hope. I'm the only one saying shoulda or coulda...
This has to shift...I need to focus on reality...on the now.
Nothing from the past matters...
I want to tell W these things-
That I will remember her as having used me, as never caring enough about the M to suggest MC, or even communicate her needs or displeasure. That she never loved me and that this was always going to happen b/c she never let me in. That i will be better off w/o her and I am happy to have her out of my life.
None of it is true though
I'm sorry you're having such a rough night. I hear you on not looking forward to tomorrow. I think having your friend there will help you resist saying something you will later regret to WAW and MIL. Don't let your very real grief lead you into the trap of thinking that WAW and MIL determine your future happiness. They don't. PMA will probably make you feel better about yourself tomorrow night. Hey, you can always get on the phone or send a letter if you feel hellbent to vent in the near future. You don't need to do it in front of MIL and your friend tomorrow. And of course your WAW deserves it. But you'll feel more dignified later if you don't, because once you open those floodgates, it can go any which way. LOL. Try to get some rest.
thanks for checking in on me...I am very unpredictable in these sitches...I have a hard time not coming off as cold...I just want it to be over w/ already...I know that WAW placed me in charge of her happiness and thats why shes leaving..and I know that now I'm putting her in charge of my happiness...this "power struggle" is absurd.
The happy median, I feel, is working together at being happy as indivicuals while staying M. I know that it's a possibilty if she would let it.
UGH- I need to heed my own advice and look at my sitch as though it were someone elses.
i'll try to keep that in mind tomorrow...that's probably the best way to go about it...stay removed enough to be able to think clearly and do what we know we should do.
Again thanks for the words of encouragement, I'm gonna try to sleep for 3 hrs.
Stupid Spring Solstice and time change!!!lol
That I will remember her as having used me, as never caring enough about the M to suggest MC, or even communicate her needs or displeasure. That she never loved me and that this was always going to happen b/c she never let me in. That i will be better off w/o her and I am happy to have her out of my life.
None of it is true though
That is very moving, Maynard. Unfortunately, people do change. I am sure she did love you. And for now, that has changed. If you don't want to completely shut the door on a reconciliation, don't say those things. Let the good in your memory stay good. Whether she recognizes it or not.
Thanks for checking in Lotus- I definately will not say those things b/c I don't believe them myself. I do love W very much and even when didn't have the "in love" feelings, I still loved her very much. That's what makes it so difficult to understand why someone can end something b/c they dont have the "in love" feelings.
I know that smart cookies post pretty much summs up the gradual effects of resentments and dissappointments...so I suppose I can understand the heartache involved then the numbing and anger.
I want to be open to Reconsiliation- it just seems foolish to even make mention of that.
I want to be open to Reconsiliation- it just seems foolish to even make mention of that.
that's because it is foolish!
Maynard - we have shared our situations and support for one another in the past 30 days and I wish you the strength and conviction that I am gaining while my situation unfolds.
You have to turn the spigot of pain off before you can gather what's left of your self esteem and move forward. You do this by learning to cope with things you cannot change.
Sure, it sucks. Yes, it hit you out of left field. Indeed, this was not the way it was supposed to be.
With that said - it is and your are.
Accept and move forward.
Go back to a time prior to your wife. Grab hold of that time and start to eliminate useless do-nothing time in your life. At first, its going to be difficult to see the benefit of keeping your mind busy - but you will - and days will go by where you are actually feeling confident about yourself.
My situation hasn't change much over the past few weeks but I have.
I no longer find it acceptable to be pissed off by my situation.
I no longer find it acceptable to spend time alone doing nothing.
I no longer find it acceptable to choose to be in a crappy mood all day.
Yes, the pain is still there but my outlook and attitude is changing.
Why?
Because the only thing I can control is changing is myself.
I have started working out and spending more time with my son and both of those things have made me a better, healthier person.
YOU CAN DO THIS!!!
YOU HAVE TO DO THIS!!!
thanks Mike-
I've come around w/ the GAL-ing, and although still emotionally up and down it is when I see or speak to W that I get twisted.
I am so ANXIOUS right now and it sucks that she can have that effect on me. I've neve been one to have anxiety, but this is something else all together.
Mutual friend contacted me-
explained the sitch of the move.
he replies- good Im glad that you two are moving on
couldnt help myself but to reply-
thats exactly why everything has been so effed...everyone just says what the person wants to hear
his reply- OK
Feeling better, organizing some things around here...the place will be kinda bare W had most of the decorative items.
Feeling like I can handle this positively, business like...no interested in bickering or serious conversation.
Hello, goodbye, good to see you...
Cant believe this is happening...very disappointed that it's gotten to this point...knowing the OM will be the "hero" help move W and MIL in, have a nice dinner w/ them to break in the apt...UGH.
This is exactly why you shouldn't be involved in her moving... get her crap out of your house and put it somewhere neutral NOW
M- why would you lie then?
W- what did I lie about?
M- how can you pretend to be taking time for yourself while having an affair?
W- my relationship is not involved, I have plenty of time for myself.
Hope you don't mind me posting. I went through that period. I would say that was the toughest time during this. Things get easier after this point. I was so intent on stopping my X from moving out, that I was kind of surprised to find out that my life actually got better when he did.
You know texting is wrong-dont' do that anymore! That's a classic example of the kind of screwed-up they are. They just are kind of delusional. My X said many times, his girlfriend (he was living with) had nothing to do with the divorce. Um, yeah, whatever. In the one therapy session he went to (to tell me it was over) he did tell the C that he would have worked on the M if he wasn't having an A. So I think they say stuff like that to convince themselves even more so than you. I def. did a lot of emails with X during that period, and it was such a joke. Best to go completely NC. If contact makes your PMA lower, and it usually does when they are having an A, then don't do it.
Most A's end, and then at that point you can decide if you want to reconcile or not. At that point, you may be surprised to find out that you don't want back on the rollercoaster. But will be your choice. For now, detach, detach, detach.
And almost forgot--don't help pack her stuff!!! Don't help her do anything that is breaking apart your M such as this move. Don't enable her. Let her feel the consequences. OM is not a hero, but rather a predator. I believe at some point your W will realize that.
Maynard, I just can't believe you have to be there while this is happening. I must have skipped a post...is this what the vets recommend- to be present? I guess it's good to listen to them then since it is the beginning of your separation and not the middle or the end- get it right early!
Please try to schedule a lot of things GAL wise this week to occupy yourself. It really will help!
No newmama.
My advice some time ago was for Maynard to move her belongings to a neutral location (underground storage or whatver) that she can rifle through at her leisure without him involved.
I have seen a few posters give advice to that effect.
Maynard, you need to stop being such a masochist... YOU put her junk someplace where she can pick it up... NOT at HER friends, you put it at your friends place or something.
If you try to arrange something at HER friends place they will CALL her and WARN her.
You do NOT want her warned about this... Just throw the stuff in a box and get it out... this is how she's treating your marriage, not carefully or delciately or with any consideration...
you treat her belongings the same way she is treating the rest of her marriage so she can see what she's doing.
Do NOT pack things nicely... you aren't her employee... toss it in a box and dump it on someone's front lawn and be done with it all
There was no time...one load is done. MIL said virtually nothing to me...I was polite but did not engage her either. For the most part there was no conversation.
W reiterated that she's taking time for herself...I had no reply.
I did let her know that w/ D there would be no friendship what-so-ever...this did get her attention- she was literally shocked.
She asked why, I said friends don't do this to eachother and I did not marry her to be her friend.
They are on their way to the apt., they are coming back for a second load in a bit.
i have avoided all physical contact w/ W, literally dodging her if we came close.
Sadly, I have helped them load the truck...I would love not to, but its all women and some of the stuff is heavy. I don't know that its wrong to do, I can see how it saves her some hassle, but they do have to unload it themselves...plus they cant load a truck worth shirt...I think I learned how to load from my dad, he's super anal about it.
Its funny to watch W w/ MIl and her friend they are more pissy than W- I feel like she's following them, like she is just going along w/ them...
I actually feel REALLY good. I am not emotional it is business and there are no "hey remember this" or sighs, etc.
Once the last load is done, it's NC for as long as I can go.
Maynard -
Sounds like you are handling it like a gentleman. HUGS!!!
Good job on the honesty, as well (re: friends after a D). Sometimes you just have to be heard!
Happy POST Birthday!
I would not reccommend you help her move.
If the stuff is heavy that's too damn bad...
Maynard you are not helping your wife grow up or accept reality by coddling her like a child and doing everything for her.
You COULD have used this move to get her to wake UP... By standing by and doing NOTHING you demonstrate you don't agree with the move. By NOT helping them move you maintain your position on the divorce...
Consistency is key here maynard, but the message you are sending her right now is "I am your servant, use me as you like"
And as far as "there was no time" you tell your wife she moves on YOUR SCHEDULE, not on her whim.
If you aren't ready for the move, then you tell her NOT TODAY.
understood...as far as consistancy goes, I suppose it would have no effect if I refuse to help w/ the lighter load?
What do you suggest
Definitely go no contact for as long as possible. I like that you made your "no friends" position clear. The WAS fantasy is having the parents, the friends, new boyfriends, AND old spouse ALL around meeting THEIR needs when they could just go to IC an learn how to meet their own needs.
Do NOT HELP... you don't agree with the affair, you don't agree with the move, you don't agree with the divorce...
So why would you pick items up and load them on a truck?
It makes no logical sense to do that if you want to show her that you DON"T AGREE with the D or her affair.
Do you think Ghandi helped the British to load their Rifles when he campaigned to get the British out of India?
Definitely go no contact for as long as possible. I like that you made your "no friends" position clear. The WAS fantasy is having the parents, the friends, new boyfriends, AND old spouse ALL around meeting THEIR needs when they could just go to IC an learn how to meet their own needs.
Bingo!
And helping her pack is NOT NC by any stretch of the imagination.
Let them lift the heavy stuff... a NICE HEAVY DOSE of REALITY for them to heave onto a truck...
When you pack for them you enable their fantaties... do NOT enable an affair.
Completely agreed on helping move the heavy stuff! Let her sort it out. She left you to lift the heaviest of stuff, YOU, YOUR HEART, and YOUR DISAPPOINTMENT!
so again, is it OK, to just not help for the second load? Do I need tosay anything, or is it just my actions at this point?\
Mindfull- thanks for the Bday wishes
Thanks mindfull, I couldn't have said that better...
REALITY MAYNARD, that is what your wife is avoiding, and when YOU LIFT things for her, you ENABLE her escapism rather than leaving her to taste the reality and her choices.
When your wife has to face reality, she has to think and act and she doesn't like that... she wants someone to wave the magic wand and make the world into a happier place for her.
Do NOT WAVE the WAND...
A better question is why isn't OM there helping lift stuff?
Is he cowardly or just lazy?
Granted I would never let him in my home, but he could be there to help put stuff on the truck, but of course he's not there.
Om is doing a better job forcing WS to accept reality than you are.
Just sit back and watch them struggle... the struggling is what is going to bring your wife out of the fog... the more struggling the more she has to wake up...
If you ease that struggle you are just allowing the affair to last that much longer.
And ask her for the KEYS NOW... don't wait til she's moved eveyrthing out.. I would'nt be surprised if she tried to keep her keys...
She may haev returned them to you already, but I doubt it.
Ask for the keys and then go make a sandwich and watch the show.
If she asks you to help you tell her
"I am not helping you end our marriage... You do that on your own."
Make sure you have the keys before you challenge her like this.
You can even stop in mid=move if you feel thats easier
Pick up a box, head for the door and then just drop it and say
"Why the hell am I doing this? I don't want a divorce! YOU MOVE if you want a divorce... I am NOT your DOORMAT!"
And you walk away.
done...will update later...thanks all
You can even stop in mid=move if you feel thats easier
Pick up a box, head for the door and then just drop it and say
"Why the hell am I doing this? I don't want a divorce! YOU MOVE if you want a divorce... I am NOT your DOORMAT!"
And you walk away.
This is perfect.
OK, round two complete, did not help this round...did lawn work instead.
Put up some pictures and artwork from my parents to replace the empty spaces on the wall.
Moved some furniture from a guest bedroom into the main room as well.
No emotional breakdowns...W keeps asking me if I'm OK...I say that I'm OK..
Allen I know you say that the WS should never be told that, they should be reminded of what they are doing...does it matter in this case b/c WAW is having an A?
I also think me saying- "I'm not OK, my W is leaving" shows me to be needy and pursuing...
open to suggestions.
BTW, I do feel OK
I say leave and go somewhere. She knows you don't want to end your marriage, right? Good job keeping your cool.
Thanks newma- I do have an errand to run so i will tend to it...
She wants to see you feel bad... so she's prodding you about it.
Tell her the following :
"Just move your belongings out of my home please."
Don't smile, don't sneer. Just tell her what I wrote above and that's it.
You are right, if you tell her you are NOT ok, you are pursuing, but if you tell her you ARE ok, you are validating...
She WANTS to see you have an emotional breakdown so she's prodding you for one since you aren't offering...
Don't give her the satisfaction of showing upset or pursuit... just tell her to move everything out, you have a busy day planned and you don't want your whole day taken up with this.
I recommended that you have a friend there to run interference over a month ago.. you are there alone I presume so you will have to deal with her alone.
also confirmed through intel that OM is helping them unpack at the apt...duh!!!
My friend was here earlier...I have not really had any kind of alone time w/ W...thankfully
And she lost all priviledges to take relationship readings when she started cheating on you.
No one having an affair should be permitted to ask "Are you OK".. its just a desperate attempt to soften THEIR GUILT.
The probelm is as you pointed out, its a trap. if you say NO, they feel GOOD that they are missed, but they will keep cheating.. if you say YES, you just validate what they are doing and they again feel GOOD that they aren't hurting you.
It's a VERY difficult rope to walk..
My advice is to change the subject
WIFE : Are you OK?
MAYNARD : I have a busy day planned, can you hurry these people up and get these things moved? I don't have all day.
Don't say it with anger or with you looking away from her. Just look right at her calmly and tell her to get her crap out of your house.
OK, he's hiding at the apt.. figures...
No conscience = No balls
BTW- quick vent...
MIL not so much as even thanked me for storing her shurt for 1 year and assisting w/ the first part of the trip.
Should I even make mention to W that I hope MIl has the courtesy to thank OM?
Or is that just juvenile?
Ignore it all.. her mother is the same as her... you are tossing pearls before swine.
No nasty comments or sarcasm.. its childish... you said your protest, and that's it.
Just hurry them up.. keep looking at your watch.. make a few phone calls... tell everyone you have to go out and they need to hurry it up.
GET YOUR KEYS!!!
got em...
I really appreciate everyone's support today...thank you all
May - sorry you are going thru this shite...I think your doing well man.
Now you don't contact her anymore.
Any legal or financial stuff can be done via a lawyer and an accountant.
understood.
GAL-ing tonight to see a movie...gonna try and work on a tan right now...FL is finally feeling like FL
eric- thank you
Hey may - are you on the alt? If so can you friend me.
Peace.
had to nix the tanning, wind picked up...I finished the yard and ran my errand.
No word from W reg her last trip...prob out to eat w/ friends and supporters.
I find it ironic that the WS has all the support here...OM, MIL, hangers-on, etc...they sure do recruit all the support they need.
I love my WAW very much, I'm glad that she has people to lean on right now...sadly, she is avoiding the core issues I am attempting to face head-on.
I know that I need support as well, and I find it here...people who know what tey're talking about, people who know what M means and what it takes.
I'm still feeling good...the house is pretty empty and that's OK...it can all be replaced.
I am going to GAL over the next 9 weeks by taking a course for voluteer rescue personel...for hurricanes and such...they meet every Wed and certify you in rescue techniques, protocol, and CPR. A few of my friends brought it to my attention...I like helping others and am very much into that sort of thing.
I spoke w/ my parents...they are happy W is gone, and still respect my wishes for Piecing, so long as I don't self-destruct or keep myself sick.
I'm wondering, I know every sitch is diff...and I'm sure the following can occur...I'm curious if closure doesn't come...if WAS is so hell bent in what they're doing that it is never offerred? I know that I can start healing further as soon as I drop the rope...I feel like I kinda have, yet I am waiting for W to reappear to get the last of her shirt, so probably not that much.
You will know more about how you feel about closure when a month goes by when she isn't randomly yanking your chain. A month goes quickly too, in a sense. Set your blackout goal for weeks or months at a time and maybe it will seem more doable.
It seems on these boards that a lot of these infidelity sitches crash in 6 months to a year. Once you blackout and GAL, you may not be as open to piecing as you think. Who knows?
That rescue class sounds interesting and like a good way to meet some neat new people.
thanks...I agree about the blackout and GALing leading to a very diff place... I was there after only a week of NC...sadly she shook up alot of shirt in the last 2 days...could sleep at all over it.
Not going to have any expectations...just ready to start and get back to where I was. It was peaceful and orderly w/o W.
I haev said this before, YOU THROW her stuff OUT... get RID of it.. STOP waiting for HER to come BACK and pick it up...
YOu just look REALLY DESPERATE leaving her crap there waiting for her to come by...
Take it to your friend's place (preferably one who hates her and is never home) and you leave it there... send her an email telling her its there.
I want to know how you can tell her you don't want to be friends, but you are ACTING like a friend right NOW.
Throw her things OUT of the HOUSE.
Maynard -
had to nix the tanning, wind picked up...
All I can say is tanning....shite....I'm in the northern east coast I won't be able to tan for another few months.
I find it ironic that the WS has all the support here...OM, MIL, hangers-on, etc...they sure do recruit all the support they need.
Yep i know the feeling....mine has the support of all of our mutual friends..the ones that are all divorced. You can't take it personal. The reality is that most friends will want the pain to end so that offer up the support. Since they usually do not understand the core issues they actually think they are doing the right thing. It is sad but true so once again don't take it personally.
I love my WAW very much, I'm glad that she has people to lean on right now...sadly, she is avoiding the core issues I am attempting to face head-on.
That's why your a better man! You see you did not go running into the arms of someone else. You stood up, make your changes and dealt with it like a responsible adult. You should be VERY proud dude.
I'm still feeling good...the house is pretty empty and that's OK...it can all be replaced.
I say get a dog
I am going to GAL over the next 9 weeks by taking a course for voluteer rescue personel...for hurricanes and such...they meet every Wed and certify you in rescue techniques, protocol, and CPR. A few of my friends brought it to my attention...I like helping others and am very much into that sort of thing.
Nice idea... nothing like giving back and helping. It just goes to show the type of man that you are.
I'm wondering, I know every sitch is diff...and I'm sure the following can occur...I'm curious if closure doesn't come...if WAS is so hell bent in what they're doing that it is never offerred? I know that I can start healing further as soon as I drop the rope...I feel like I kinda have, yet I am waiting for W to reappear to get the last of her shirt, so probably not that much.
Personally, I think closure will come when you are ready for it. Don't push it...take the time for you buddy.
God Bless
Eric
Maynard -
The word BLACKOUT on your sig is good. Live it! Most likely, you just lived through the worst. Don't get sucked in again.
HUGS
Woke up kinda restless..I discovered some pictures W left behind in some drawers...some from our honeymoon- nothing fancy, two pictures in two frames...curious as to why she didnt take at least one of them.
No real bother...I remember reading another sitch where the W kept only leaving her wedding dress...I'm in this for the long haul...getting sleepy again. Check in tomorrow
Glad to be back at work...trying to PMA as best I can...It's strange- W has not lived at the house for nearly 2 months- I've been getting along w/o her...but the move yesterday made it feel like it just happened.
I've only seen W 3 or 4 times in 2 months, and we've really not even communicated- aside from a few conversations and texts...
I know it will take me a few more days to detox from having seen her again, so I'm prepared for the ups and downs.
Still find myself reeling over hows and whys...
May - Keep your head up high buddy. You will do fine. Keep posting.
Wishing you a good day today and a better tomorrow!
Maynard, W may have left those photos if she doesn't want OM to see them. She may have forgotten them, too.
This week will be hard but it will get better. (((hugs)))
You ever notice how some of the things we fear are the hardest things to do end up being pretty easy? That's the way I look at this. When I'm scared, I panic and blow the whole situation out of proportion. But as I live and move through it, it just gets easier and easier. Even the OW doesn't seem like an issue anymore. He has his rights to whatever that ends up being, and I have the right to sit back with popcorn and watch the carwreck that I know it will be. Maybe all you need is a different perspective. And to put those photos away where you don't have to see them.
((HUGS))
Caution -
Even the OW doesn't seem like an issue anymore. He has his rights to whatever that ends up being, and I have the right to sit back with popcorn and watch the carwreck that I know it will be. Maybe all you need is a different perspective.
Dude - I needed that quote - thanks man. This helps me.
Maynard - hope your having a good day. Keep your head up buddy. You are man of integrity and honor you should know this.
thanks for checking in...work blocked me from DB, so I can only post from home now...kinda sucks, but I guess I'm more productive now...lol
W is to retrieve some last articles...I am dropping the rope and feel like I'm at that place...I've already said everything I can say, so I think it will just be "hello, and Goodbye (W's name)."
I would love to continue to teach or lecture etc...as I mentioned I already let her know that w/o an attempt at rec. there will be no friendship- no point in repeating myself.
Today was good, feel free and pretty light- w/o burden...accepting things I cannot control, and PMA very well.
OK, so W asked that I meet her somewhere to assist in retrieving her belongings...I was out to eat so suggested we arrange for another time.
I find it insulting that W would suggest in Sun that she would be right back to retrieve the items, then ask that a key be left for her on mon, then say mon night, then not show or reply, then agree to a time today, only to ask that I go and meet her w/ them?!
WTF?!
I just had a day dream...I will not mention this again...and I am not beating myself up, but I am disappointed in myself.
The following...laying in bed next to W 7-8 months ago...turning to her and looking her in the eyes, and asking
"are you happy? Do I make you happy? What can I do better?"
I would kill to have done these things...yes I am upset for having not- I / we were on auto-pilot...WTF cant she see that?
But here we are instead...
It's hard when you keep thinking back, isn't it? But we all do it.
Also I second that WTF. She thinks she has you right where she wants you. Prove her wrong.
That's a sad daydream. I feel exactly that way too.
Thanks, I know...shoulda coulda woulda...
I dropped the remaining things of W's at a neutral location. Her reply was- I wanted to get the yest. why you being a dirk? I wanted to get the yest. WTF?!
Unfortunately I did reply...
'
I was out o eat...you were supposed to get them Mon the Tues.
later I added-
I dont want this anymore, good luck in your life.
I am done...darkness will prevail from here...I have rid myself of her belongings and excuses to keep me waiting for her to show up one last time...fully prepared for these to be the last words to W.
Please pray for me to have the strength to try something different, to rid myself of my obligations and duty- to be a better man to myself, b/c I do deserve better.
Good for you dropping them off in a neutral location so as not to have your chain yanked all week. You go! My thoughts are with you and I know you have the strength to try something different for yourself. You just proved it by dropping that stuff off somewhere else.
Praying for you, hun. Ignore the calls. Ignore the texts. It's not worth it to have the last word. All you get is more reason for her to argue with you.
You're doing so well. Doing great things for yourself, which is the only person you have obligation to right now.
My thoughts are with you. I know how hard it is. Try to let the anger go first. Think of a word that's happy and when you feel that anger or the urge to contact W say the word until the thought goes away. All this emotion is triggered by thoughts so control your thoughts.
Try it. It works for me. Sometimes I am so pissed I can't remember my word.
Grit
M i just realized that this was you....
Jasper
I had the strength... I see no reason why you do not have the strength
M - oh...I mean J now
Agree with True - try not to let the anger get the best of you. You've been a class act buddy a class act. You have learned from your mistakes - now just do not repeat them. You will find happiness dude - I'm sure of it. Keep working on you man.
You okay? Been a couple days, hopefully you've been too busy GALing.
so nc hasnt been great. i drpd off stuff wed night. she contactd me abt other stuff and tld me she didnt have her phone on her wed...yet she replied to my text letn her kno i was makn the drop...wtf.
she told me shes confused...i cntcd om and explained what w said and that hes effectng the outcome of the m. i let w kno what i did so as to not b undrhanded or sneaky...so now nc is continued.
reading nuts and not just friends...tonight i gal by havn dinnr w/ a friend and watchn a movie.
tx for chekn in and the kind words
did you go all teenage text on us ???
I think reading those two books in particular will give you some perspective about decisions you want to make for yourself.
Woah, you talked to the OM? What purpose did that serve? I think I'm even more confused now, took me a few minutes to read the shorthand.
Sorry guys, computer is back up and running...yes CB, I had to go texty chat b/c it was my cellular...ugh, I hate it too.
Cautious- yes, I in a moment of weakness texte OM- that W had not made up her minad as to what she wants and that he's effecting the outcome of our M...
Naturally the response I get is W dead set on D.
She popped over while I was here...I figured it was the best time for closure-
W loves OM, might be in love, says it feels like it
W is having sex w/ OM
W has no guilt for what she's doing
And that's all she wrote...no respect for W though she says that she does respect me for standing up for the M- just that she wanted no part of it anymore- b/c "there was no PASSION"
Whatever...
I feel surprisingly good...a bit disgusted and sure my ego is bruised...I have a love for her despite this...I will NOT expect a recanting nor apology from her, but it would be nice one day just to know that she maybe cared at one point and that she indeed has a soul or conscience...I'm sure its there beneath the fog.
I feel free- especially of guilt...I would feel better if I had done no wrong in the R, saly I am human and I did many things wrong- I wish I could take them back...I believe no passion is a cop-out- especially when there are MANY factors that lead to that- honesty, communication, shared experience, and of course attraction and love (but in love not necessary).
W gave up, she can sleep in her bed...I hold no grudges but will not include her nor wish to be included in her life until I see tears, remorse, and a genuine appology- not for her feelings but for disregard and disrespect.
Until then, I GAL by seeing some movies this week, researching nursing schools, golf this weekend, P90X, time w/ my dog, and watching the fight Fri night w/ some friends...
Had a great day, NC and not even really caring...rode my bike, took my dog on a walk, and caught up w/ some old friends and family.
Making short term goals for myself, and having friends and family hold me accountable...
Excited for my future!
I'm happy for you, j. You did what you could until you couldn't do any more. The outcome may not have been the original end goal, but you seem happy with it. And I'm sure you will have no trouble when you decide it's time to step out into that crazy world of romantic relationships again.
thanks Cautious-
I'm saddened that W wouldn't go the distance, but when a 6yr R starts getting stale, if you're not ready to do the hard work, you will just jump ship again...I can't live like that...
Not sure where my next thread should go...
Keep up the good work Jasper67 - Personally, I need to follow your example.
Thanks Eric- I am by no means someone to follow- I have effed up at ever turn...do I want my M...yes...but right now there is only me...does that keep me from reeling...no.
The one day I would want to relive if at all possible was 8/23/09- that was the day my M could have been saved...that was the day I failed my W and failed my M...I never thought our first fight would be our last.
But, my NUTS are in tact...there's nothing at all w/o a heartfelt apology...even then there may be nothing...
all I can do is move on, learn from my mistakes and be the man I need to be for me, and maybe I'll be able to keep a W and a healthy M
Woke up and the first thought was W laying in bed w/ OM...UGH.
stomach began to churn...
I fully embrace the aspect of A's being addictive and such- that's the only reason I believe there may be a day when W wakes up...
On the other hand- W's response to me a week ago was 'it must be hard when you're still in the R'
Anyway, not really going anywhere w/ any of this...I wish W were in her fog, maybe she is, maybe not...I am seeing my fog lift, as now I look back and see many of the bad aspects of our M...and seeing W in this light w/ no remorse or guilt helps me also to see her flaws and obv lack of integrity and honor...
It was very funny to me to see W- who collects religious figures...mostly Angels...come over wearing a huge cross around her neck, while committing adultery...what is that?
How do you compartmentalize so well?
Jasper -
I've made a ton of mistakes myself (just read my thread). The reality is that we cannot control them. They are going to do whatever they want to do. They will justify all of there actions. One day she will wake up buddy..one day...I have a funny feeling it will be just as you are about to embark on your next R - I think it is then that they realize what they had.
In terms of the religious figures...my wife told me the other day that she prays for me every day. As hard as it is to believe since she is with another, I actually do believe her. We all fall short in God eyes so who are we to judge. We can only live by our own convictions. That is all. Pray for her. Wish her well and then go find yourself a wonderful woman that will love the man that you are.
God Bless,
Eric
Jasper - For crying out loud, I didn't recognize you! Wondered where YOU were! Now I have to catch up! HUGS
Sorry Mindfull...had to alter things a bit...lol
Not much to report so your catching up shouldnt take long...
Had a decent day at work, reeled all day though...UGH.
Gonna GAL tonight w/ a friend from work...watch a movie, shoot some pool. This weekend golf, clean, and beach- weather permitting.
Staying clear from the vortex physically, but mentally somewhat consumed today- possibly b/c of the first thoughts waking up.
Find myself angry for the past and various days that were pivotal for my sitch. I really need to forgive myself. Funny how M is all imprtant to the LBS and trivial to the WAS.
I cant help but to feel used and thrown out...I know what my NUTS are and I know I deserve better...sadly I remember that W deserved better too.
Whats w/ my nostalgia?!
I can remember the first day we went NC, W came back and wanted to work things out...3 days later, coming home drunk- she couldn't do it anymore...
Whatever...I cant wait to only post my GALs- I could do it now but I'd be lying as so much more goes through my mind...
ie- is W really being true to herself- am I delusional and in denial? Is W running, or is she truly done and SURE of what she wants? Is she acting on her own judgement or acting out the scenario she created w/ friends and family?
reg- her attitude of M and Love is not in line w/ my own...so there's the problem.
Anyhoo...Eric, thanks for the prayers, Mindfull, thanks for checking up on me.
You guys are the best
GAL'd last night w/ a friend...went to the beach and spoke about my sitch...hate that I bothered them w/ it...they pretty much know everything- my whole office knows.
Put alot of stuff in perspective, feeling pretty good...
Today- clean, errands, gym, and watch the fight tonight
Day was OK so far...going to watch the fight in a few hours...
Prob thought about W 50% of the day...took a nap though and woke up w/ the same "just like yesterday" feeling...
I suppose that fades after a while.
Hi Jasper, just wanted to check in and give you encouragement. Weekends are tricky and it's good to have plans. I get the same "just like yesterday" feelings too. I used to wake up and be in such shock that the pain was unbearable. It's softer now..that's 3months in...
just sending some encouragement your way. Each day will get better. Weekends are hard but you will soon start to enjoy YOUR time. What has helped me the most is finding a way to spend my down time doing something I am passionate about. I ended up starting a business on a fluke within a few weeks time, should have a website launched for it in 4 weeks, already had my first out of state shipment with several other orders in town (I bake :-)). IF you like to read, get out the house and go to a bookstore/coffee shop and hang out there. Love food (I am a foodie), go eat by yourself at a nice restaurant but sit at the bar (someone will always strike up a conversation with you). I don't really like walks but some people find that relaxing also (personally they make me do too much thinking when I am alone and my mind is at rest). Oh, my favorite is to set a REALLY hard goal for yourself that will make you have to focus most of your energy on that ONE GOAL...almost like when you have the goal of saving your marriage and most of us on this site put ALL of our energy and thoughts everyday into DBing. CHANGE THE GOAL. Make your goal to run a half marathon or a regular marathon. The training is regimented where you would have to focus on meeting you running goals each day and on the weekend. It would also allow you to join a marathon training group and meet new people. They usually do their long runs together on the weekend and eat bkfast together afterwards.
Sorry so winded but just wanted to give you ALOT of options to keep you mind busy :-) Like my mom always said, "An idle mind is the devil's playground"
thanks 4luv-
I read your sitch and am happy for the current attitude you've progressed to.
I hope to be there one day.
In the interest of full disclosure- I still very much love W and have continually beaten myself up over the failings of our M.
I know that W never suggested MC or reading books when she was concerned about our M, so I know that something tripped her up in the process to skip those steps (EA/PA).
I have spoken w/ my family and they HATE hearing me talk about my sitch b/c of the pain I still feel...
I keep wondering if W is emotionally disabled or if she's just SO heartbroken by me and our M...My father explained that everything I'm going through is the natural grieving process, that w has not gone through this, possibly from just being too numb, or distracted...
The other belief is that this is how W deals w/ things in general due to the traumatic losses she experienced as a child (father and brother passing).
I have no clue, b/c W NEVER shared those things w/ me- so I keep convincing myself she is emotionally whole and ridding herself of the garbage, so to speak.
On the other hand- endless family members have conveyed that W was exceptionally shallow in conversation, NEVER revealing herself or feelings, etc- just keeping things light and superficial.
This see-saw destroys me b/c as most WAS's do they leave LBS feeling as though they are completely to blame...rug pulled, no reasons, nothing...
I have done SO much wrong in our R that I cannot help but attempt to shoulder it all.
I dont know if W is smart and got rid of something holding her back, or if W is unable to truly love and be loved, or if I did everything differently whether or not I would still find myself here.
Make the reeling stop!!!
Jasper
Just checking in on you. I haven't stopped by for a while. I am having the same thoughts you're having about W. I have no way of knowing A is still going on because I've detached and don't ask. The longer she goes with this thing. (it's been going on for over 6 months) and what she has said and written to me is that she doesn't want marriage to end, but she continues down this road.
I am starting really to think maybe she is just really f'd up and can't commit or is so wrapped up in the drug of the A that she can't pull away. Either way bad news.
You have to start to forgive yourself man. You're here so you want to be a better man. You've commited to this and not many folks have the nuts for this. You made mistakes and they are over. This won't get any easier until you truly focus on YOU. But the trick is you can't do that until you've had enough pain.
When you do, detach and the fog starts to lift. You can do REAL GALing. It does fade after a while but you have to take control of YOU.
Keep the faith.
thanks Trurgrit- I would love to have something verbally or in writing from WAW saying something to the effect of what your W told you...I know it may only make the confusion for you worse...but it also says something about indecision and the possibility of regret on her part.
I try to GAL but never seem to truly enjoy myself...I keep as busy as I can but my mind is right there w/ me.
I almost wish I left the house so there would be no memories or intrusive thoughts.
I met some people this morning and I felt good getting out of my head...problem is my closest friend was there as well- he recently broke off his engagement b/c of some lies/behaviors of his fiance- so we both essentially bounce off of one another...
diff is he was w/ her for 4 months- I was w/ W for 6yrs...and we married obv.
Thanks for checking in and I will do my best to let the fog clear w/o fighting it.
Hi Jasper.. I agree with Truegritter
"This won't get any easier until you truly focus on YOU. But the trick is you can't do that until you've had enough pain".
Greiving has it's own timetable...
I think what is happening to me is that the pain is just getting less raw..'fading' in intensity, might be the best way to explain it. And from that, there's more space for hope and the fog lifting.
Its strange...I get to a point almost every night where I'm just exhasted of it...I dont really romanticize the R anymore- I sure do flog myself a bit though...
But everynight I start to feal at peace, then the morning sets in w/ that dose of reality...sometimes she's not the first thing I think of, sometimes she is...when she is, I know it's a rough start.
I have to be honest though, I have still been stuck in a rut w/ the gym...I try to go in the morning but hit snooze too many times- still up by 5am though
Need to set a schedule and stick to it
Hey, Jasper...
Why don't you find a new athletic activity, instead of going to the gym...? I just looked into rowing! We live on a great river, right across from where they launch. Every am in the Spring/Summer/Fall I hear them out there, in fact they wake me up!!! I always wanted to try, so I am going to! If you're in a rut at the gym, do something else! From your profile pic, you look in shape... biking? running group? Triathlon?
Jasper
I am over in the MLC forum. There are some very wise folks over there because it takes so long to go through MLC. I wanted to post you something from Lostforwords. It is what we are doing here and if you can live it, truly-you will make it through this. It is something I believe in:
Quoted from Lostforwords:
I feel there are two steps for an LBS in ending the relationship and moving on.
Step 1- Accepting that the old marriage is over. Even if there is a reconciling, the marriage of old is dead. That is why I like the approach over here in MLC. By focusing on yourself, as opposed to forcing or controlling the overall situation, the issues that the LBS finds within themselves have been addressed. More so....those issues have been wiped out by consistency and habit. So in the new marriage or future relationships those old issues don't reappear. You have time to take ownership in the parts of the marriage that you might have been lacking instead of just saying it was all the WAS.
Down the road from that is;
Step 2- At this point you can make serious decisions about any future with the WAS. These decisions are based on a sound emotional footing. You can really ask yourself "Was the marriage that good?" or "Was my spouse really that good for me?", and of course "Will my future be better by completely letting it go?".
end of quote.
Jasper use this time that you are obsessing about W and what she is doing to do something completely and only for you. For example I am taking horse riding lessons. I don't have to see anybody that knows W or about W. It is MY time. And something I have always wanted to learn how to do. GALing doesn't have to mean being with others all the time. I know it's scary to be alone with your thoughts. Secondly, you said you made mistakes- well why? What in yourself do you need to own up to? I don't need the answer it's for you and if you want to be better the next time around than you owe it to YOU. Next time around might be with W or not. Only you will know but you will know from a firm emotional footing.
I tell myself this: If I leave it will be on my terms not because W kicked me in the guts and I didn't have the fortitude to handle it. We are not hanging out because we've been left behind. I think LBS is a debilitating term. I think we are the strongest spouse left standing (SSLS) Standing for our marriage and standing for ourselves. We WERE left behind but we are gaining ground and surpassing.
It's a process Jasper. But it is not a race.
I'm not through it by any stretch, but you have to keep focus on you or you will die inside. It will leave you with scars you will carry for years. Commit to this for YOU. Do this for YOU.
Great post, Truegritter. Thanks for stopping by my thread if you get time...
Jasper, nights are also better for me..I've done all I can do, used up all my energy.. Mornings are hardest.
Hi Jasper67,
I know how you feel. at different times of the day I have so many ups and downs. It enjoy the mornings I go out early with my labrador to the park and we run for 3 miles. I look forward to this part of my day. I am also taking an anatomy and phys. class now but sometimes it is difficult to focus.
Hope you are doing okay. Going to the gym probably would make you feel better.
Thanks Truegrit- I will likely move my thread over to MLC as at this point I think that's the best category for me...
I love your advice, ironically though your GAL-ing crushes me...my W started her horse business 2 years ago and took maybe 3 days off in 2 years...
I would have loved to have learned to ride...when I started showing true interest it was too late- and the excuses from WAW were hysterical : "I'm too busy." "I dont have a horse that can carry you (I weigh 187)" etc...the real reason was that OM1 was there and it would just be uncomfortable...
I get your point though and I do want to do something like a triathalon...I'm also waiting for more consistant weather so I can start swimming again.
I def own my part and failings- perhaps a bit too much. W believed it was a loveless M- I disagree, she was busy w/ her business and I failed to be a part of it.
The only thing that murders me on a daily basis is not having that chance to be sure that if those issues were addressed, would we have a great M?
This will be my last post here, I'll join you over in MLC.
Thanks all, have a great day
CB Loved the reading-
I decided to just keep this thread going until they have me shut it down...
NC 8 days- W called yesterday morning, did not answer nor return...no message left.
Not really GALing that much during the week...taking my dog to the canal and reading mostly.
Have been saying prayers for a wayward spouse...Hosea's prayer. I figure praying and going about my life are all I can do while in NC.
No sign of W having filed yet, nor have I- nor am I inclinded to do so at this point in time.
Trying to figure out some long term goals not related to my sitch, still looking for a roomate to help at the house...considered a girl from home who wants to move here...but I want the D to be well in route or finalized before I consider walking that tightrope (percieved OW).
My sitch has been so dramatic, I doubt it will stop here- last thing I would need is an OW, and possibly have W come around out of her fog...perhaps wishful thinking...
NC feels pretty good, but I know W is having all her needs met by OM- I suppose most of her needs have been met by OM1 or OM2 for the last 6 months.
Funny a few weeks back W justified her A w/ "my needs haven't been met in a long time..."
Well- I am meeting my needs, and those I cannot meet are just going unmet for the time being...no need to run outside the M
(for now)
I know it says no matter how hopeless it seems, not to give up...I am not clinging on to hope- but I believe so much in M and in this M and in my love for W...I wonder if I am still delusional...but it feel authentic.
I look back and our R was very boring b/c we were sober for so long...I wouldn't say we were rigid but we def. had inhibitions...I think back to the first night W drank- what if I had also...my lowered inihibitions would have allowed me to relate honestly w/ her- we would have been more fluid together...
How can she ever compare our R to her current lifestyle? Exotic, late hours, bars, clubs, drunken passionate sex, etc?
Our sex would have been much better had we both been drinking...I know we would have laughed more, not been so serious about things all the time...
Just another example of a LBS picking apart the M looking for answers and what-ifs...STOP
I am happy living the way I do, and I dont need alcohol to relate to anyone better...if W needed alcohol to feel more comfortable and to lower her inhibitions to where she can laugh and have fun, then there is something wrong deep w/in her.
Please pray for my M and for my WW
Jasper
NC 8 days- W called yesterday morning, did not answer nor return...no message left.
This is good. Remember you are distanting to protect YOU. Right now you need to just focus on living for YOU.
Not really GALing that much during the week.
What no movies
Everytime I check your thread your going to movies
Just kidding buddy...just kidding...
Have been saying prayers for a wayward spouse
Keep doing that buddy and as a matter a fact throw one out for me. Trust me I need it.
My sitch has been so dramatic, I doubt it will stop here- last thing I would need is an OW,
Yep I think you do not need that right now.
Or you could call this HOPE. You should always have hope just remember that you do not control what someone else feels or does but you can control how you deal with it. Personally, I think you should keep having hope - hey ya never know.
but I know W is having all her needs met by OM- I suppose most of her needs have been met by OM1 or OM2 for the last 6 months.
Please try to stop thinking about this. You are only hurting yourself. Take the energy applied to these thoughts and think about those long term goals. Maybe a few of them should be....
1) Learn to wake up and not think about her.
2) form one new friendship
3) Get in the habit of saying one positive thing to someone every day
People always justify thier actions - as long as you are true to yourself you will be fine. Ignore her justifications, realize that she is going to continue to do this until she looks at herself and only she can do that. As you know that is why you detach - cause you cannot make her do something that she does not want to do...but you can continue to look at yourself and make those changes in you that you would like to see. For example...I was a jealous latin guy - one of my changes is to look at WHY I was jealous and then deal with. It is a process buddy but I do believe what everyone says to us..we will be BETTER men because of this. Just know that.
I wonder if I am still delusional.
Your not delusional. You love this women and you are now realizing where you are. This is normal. You are probably going thru a host of emotions (I know I am)...do not run from them but at the same token do not project your anger at her...feel the feeling that you have...learn from them...let them make you better...let them show you who YOU are. Ya know, I can see in your post just how much you love this women - take some pride in that buddy. You are a stand up guy.
I look back and our R was very boring b/c we were sober for so long...I wouldn't say we were rigid but we def. had inhibitions...I think back to the first night W drank- what if I had also...my lowered inihibitions would have allowed me to relate honestly w/ her- we would have been more fluid together...
But is that the person that you wanted to be? Is that really the person that you want to be with. You know sometime we need to look at why we are standing - why we are willing to change everything about ourself to keep someone. Is this fear? Is this some form of insecurity in you? Or could it be unconditional love? Who knows - but IMO if you search deep inside yourself you will find the answer.
Our sex would have been much better had we both been drinking
Sorry dude but I totally disagree. My best friend is divorced partly because his W was an alcholic. The only time that they had sex was when both were hammered. Is this what you want? I would gather that what you really wanted was a partner that respected you and that you respected...one that would be open and honest with you about how they felt...one that connected with you on an emotional, physical and spiritual level. The booze would have only masked the true issue at hand. So maybe if you really keep looking at yourself and becoming the man that you really want to be, your W or someone else for the matter will be the connection that you want.
How can she ever compare our R to her current lifestyle?
She can't compare the two - what make the club hoping and drinking better? You know I've felt this myself...how can my W really compare our M to the new R with OM? We'll the reality is that I (or maybe that is "we" as in me and you) must find our own happiness and not rely on someone else to provide this. Maybe our happiness does not lie in a bar...maybe our happiness is something else that we need to find. I bet, if we really look at ourselves we will find that happiness and that happiness will ooze from our bodies and attract what we really need. Just a thought....just a thought...
Just another example of a LBS picking apart the M looking for answers and what-ifs...STOP
yes please stop.
Finally, let's pray for each other (add Wild and others on this board to the mix). You are good guy Jasper. Know this. Know that this will pass, know that you will survive know that the time you have right now is for you. Know that this time is priceless.
God Bless,
Eric
I know what you're saying- the alcohol though would have taken some of the edge off...I know we both had resentments etc...anyway. NC still in effect...trying to GAL, not fully enjoying it.
Dad contacted me today, W has not paid her car bill or loan payment, he's livid...W is so irresponsible right now financially.
How can you keep this shirt up? I know in my addiction, when things got this bad, I never wanted to face them...I did though when I had no choice...
Difference is I HAD to respect my family at some point, W doesn't have that requirement...I guess I didn't either until I knew I had to.
Making dinner plans w/ a friend from work for Sat...not sure about tomorrow night yet.
Still praying...still not fully forgiving myself yet...always thinking of yet another failure...opportunity lost. Very frustrating.
It broke my heart to hear my dad so upset...I immediately thought of how responsible W and I used to be about bills, doctors, work etc...I hate watching her struggle.
Also my birth sister is in town this weekend, I have only met her once ten years ago...I'm gonna visit her on Sat. I am really upset b/c I would love for W to be there as well. I thought about breaking NC to inform W...but couldn't stand the expected reply : "have fun." or "good for you."
UGH- you know it's bad (or good) when you know what the WAS is going to say...lol
Jasper
I don't know if anyone posted this for you yet but you need to go here and if you have been there you need to go back:
This is the detach link:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/You are giving time in your head to way too many thoughts about W and what is going on with her. You cannot fix her. It is unhealthy for you to keep dwelling on this. You will be STUCK in PAIN until you realize what everyone has been telling you.
You need to focus on you and that doesn't mean focus on how much you miss W or what you could have done in your M. Your M is dead. Your old M anyway. You will not have a new one until you get yourself healthy and you can't do that until you detach. I know your dark but your thoughts are not.
Try a simple goal. When you wake up until noon tomorrow every time you think about W STOP yourself and think about something else no matter how many tinmes it happens. You have got to get yourself off these thoughts man!
The rest of the day let yourself think it if you want then try and go longer the next day. This is a lot easier if you are GALing and not sitting there staring at the ceiling which is why the advice to GAL.
I am woried about you man...there is nothing but heartache down this path you continue to go down.
Thanks Trugrit- you are right about the rabbit hole of heartache...my day was pretty much OK till my dad informed me of W's not paying anything yet.
I do force myself to envision a STOP sign when I have intrusive thoughts of W...I've been reading about NC on other sites and how it's to rid ones self of the addiction...detaching.
They say real progress comes later down the road...at 30-45 days, so I'm getting there.
I did get a feeler text from W at 2am- hoping me and my dog were OK...
Today I finalize plans for GALing tonight and for tomorrow night...not sure about golf this weekend b/c of my birthsister being in town...
Thanks for checking in on me...
tonight I GAL by having dinner w/ a friend and going to see Clash of the Titans (childhood favorite)...will not mention W or sitch once tonight- big 180 for me
good jasper! How was the movie? A favorite of mine too. Day by day my friend. My part of the fla was beaitiful today. AMAZINGLY beautiful! We are blessed to live in such a wonderful state. I am remembering correctly you are a fellow Floridian?
Not sure where you are but you should take your birth sister somewhere outside to enjoy the weather.
You will make it through this...as you said some time has to pass.., while you focus on YOU.
Thanks for checking in...the movie was good- its funny, I NEVER thought I'd be caught saying the original was better- I guess I'm starting to get a bit older (sound like my dad) lol...I saw the original like 100xs when I as 8-10 years old; guess its hard to compete w/ the imagination I had back then.
I'm in SE FL...very far south...it was awesome. The plan for tomorrow is lunch and the beach or walkin around. Then dinner w/ a different friend from work...goal- not mentioning my sitch.
Have an update and it's kinda throwing me off...
W texted me "why are u ignoring me?"
This will be the first contact necessitating a reply (kind of).
I dont want to seem childish and not reply, nor do I want to say yet another boundary...
Sadly 2 weeks ago I effed up...I spoke w/ W and said I was upset that MIL was so uncomfortable w/ me during the move. W said "well you said there wont be a friendship, so why does it matter?" Unfortunately, I backed down from my boundary and was "meltyman"- "oh, there will be some type of friendship eventually..."
BLECH!
Our last conversation was OM/sitch related and somewhat 'confrontational'- me reminding her of my POV of the sitch and her actions...since then I haven't spoken to her at all.
I feel really good NC- sure I still think about her, but I'm not SO caught up on her anymore.
I am really wondering what I should say...if anything at all. I want to move on and I don't want to make her feel good, knowing I think about her or to appease her guilt or whatever...
Is it rude or childish to simply not reply to her text?
thanks
Jasper
I am dealing with the same dilemna. W (I think) is still w/ OM. You do not want to cultivate the idea that you are mad or ignoring. You are not trying to force behaviors here IMO because it will be an endless cycle of you playing that game.
She knows you don't want a relationship with her while OM is still in picture.
Instead you have to be the pillar of confidence, courage and strength. I have told my W that I will give her space, wait, work on myself, be joyful and most of all be patient. I do this for ME and my M. I am standing up for my M by being the best person I can be. That means I am taking care of ME.
There is no way you can force behaviors that result in genuine change. If you force and she isn't ready you'll be back here quickly.
You feel melty I think because you are not clear on purpose. IMO going dark has to be for YOU- not to force change. Go dark if you need the boundary for your own health and sanity. A boundary is something to protect YOU. Not to force behavior.
I think if you can handle it, it is better to be the cool dude here and if she fires one over the net at you then you confidently lob it back. I think you don't contact her but if she contacts you then... an opportunity to present the cool dude you've become.
"I'm not ignoring you. Is there something you want to talk about?"
Do not pursue! And don't talk about R. If she brings it up then validate, just listen-DON'T ARGUE. She has already contacted you after the dark stage so it will continue to happen. When she does she gets to talk to cool, confident Jasper.
Not the Jasper that she kicked in the nuts.
Now the trick my friend is you actually have to BE the cool, confident Jasper. And...
... you are getting there my friend with your detaching and GALing.
Just think... when she calls... you just put on side two of Led Zeppelin Four and be the man! (sorry a little Fast Times a R High reference).
Stay with it man ...you'll get there.
P.S. I was born in SE FLA a lot going on down there for cool, confident cat!
No contact means NO CONTACT!
Ignore the text. She is baiting you and testing your boundaries.
You did say you wouldn't be associated with her while OM1, OM2 to OMx are in the picture right? Well mean it for once in your life.
You have better things to do than play her little games.
I agree Gno- I haven't replied, nor will I. I have nothing to say to W anyway- nothing that will help at least...I do have a ton of stuff to say ranging from: yelling, obscenities, teaching, convincing, and of course begging...
But nothing at all is best. I set a goal of 45 days NC- so I can be in a better place...even at that point, if she's w/ OM I have nothing to say to her.
I do feel better w/ NC, but I def have my moments- ie- today, seeing my birthsister- would have loved to have had my old W there w/ me for it...
thanks for the input...looking forward to GALing tonight.
GNO- hope all's well w/ you
Jasper
I would say under the circumstances pointed out by Gno this is boundary that you need and you need to enforce it.
I wouldn't attach any expectations to it at all though, save one -that you get yourself to a healthier place.
That is the goal.
Understood- I have already established the boundary, so there is no need to "remind W."
I have nothing to say to W anyway- nothing that will help at least...I do have a ton of stuff to say ranging from: yelling, obscenities, teaching, convincing, and of course begging.....But nothing at all is best. I set a goal of 45 days NC- so I can be in a better place...
Jasper, 45 days is a good amount of time. You will notice feeling better after a quarter of that time - and this will be good for you. I have just ended 5 weeks NC and I reacted better to a recent communication with WAH than I would have before the 5 weeks. I wasn't perfect, but definately an improvement. I am thinking of you.
Thanks Piano-
Here's my sitch: 1 of 4 things are going to happen (no time limit yet)
1- W files
2- I heal and become ready, I file
3-I heal, meet someone, I file
4- W asks/wants to come back
number 4 is least probable- truthfully, number 3 is more likely to occur, but not trying to make it happen.
number 2 may be a while- we'll see how I feel after 45 days NC
who knows about number 1...
I GALd like a king and actually really enjoyed my company- so maybe I'm lying about number 3...lol.
still being respectful to my non-existant M; but def se how easy it is to get over someone by having another person in the sitch...she knows my sitch so no boundary issues...just very nice not talking about my sitch and getting to know someone better.
I do not recommend it, but I have read many other people suggest "non-involved dating" to be good for GAL, confidence, and seeing reality.
no arguments there...
Today is day 14 NC- and I feel great....I was invited to an Easter dinner last night and met some very interesting people and got to know my friend a lot better...I have met an amazing person but am not going to make things more difficult on myself right now.
After dinner I recieve a call from OM1's GF...we spoke for a very long time...she thanked me for being "a stand up guy" and for having the integrity and courage to alert her of the EA/PA...
I already know how badly W berated me to people, but OM1's GF confirmed this- and I do not care.
OM1's GF also told me that my prior concern w/ new OM is correct- that he is very much into drugs and the "life of the party"...it's sad that W has gone back to those days- and I'm sure that it will only be a matter of time before something happens.
I had wanted to attempt an intervention- but now, I have ZERO credibility w/ W's supports, so I will do nothing.
My GAL-ing has introduced a great opportunity and a new and wonderful friend...
Today I woke up happy
Jasper -
I've been following along, and read the control this is taking for you to slowly, but surely, move on.
Congratulations! You are doing well, my friend!
HUGS!
Jasper
Today is day 14 NC- and I feel great
This is good. Just remember some of those feelings that you are experiencing may resurface but it looks like you have a good handle on dealing with them.
I have met an amazing person but am not going to make things more difficult on myself right now.
Be careful dude - you are still vulnerable right now and you may not want to jump into something this early. Having said this...enjoy yourself dude YOU deserve it!
This sound like anger to me - try and work on letting the anger go (I still struggling with this so please do not take it the wrong way - I do understand).
A very good place to be buddy.
Dude - you are an impressive guy. You have handel yourself with class and dignity. You should be proud. Your doing great man.
God Bless,
Eric
Thanks guys...
Had a great time this evenin, went to the dog park w/ my friend.
Gonna do some reading tonight- I literally had a skip in my step today and no problem whistleing and smiling- REAL PMA...for the first time in months...this is prob the way I was supposed to be when W was in the house.
Oh well...better late than never.
Day 14 now behind me...feeling great- prepared to go the distance and hope to one day soon write that I honestly dont know how long its been since I spoke to W.
Some love for her is there...I found myself journaling that at this point I would be "curious" to see if things could work out...I remember being SO dumbfounded when W toild me that same line- I couldnt understand how you could use the word "curious"...
Now I do understand.
Letting yourself out of the darkness is pretty darn amazing- wish I could have started to let go more sooner.
Thanks all or the continued support- wish I had better news about the M- but I am saving myself and that's the most important thing.
Hey man! That's great!
I am glad you are coming out of it. Keep on your course it's working for you
Just an aside- I woke up to a text from W sent lastnight...very cryptic and unlike W you will laugh as it really says nothing at all...
"fu&k..."
WTH is that?! LOL...
Anyway, I'm paying it no mind...naturally I reeled as to what it means...is she calling me one, is she inviting me (HA!), is she angry, WTF...
Doesn't matter...if she has something to say she'll come right out and say it...I'm day 15 and still feeling good.
My GALing will take a hit over the next week, my finances are almost non-existant...will need to find some cheap or free things to do.
Also, I am starting to teach swim lessons on the side- it started as a favor...but looks like a few people may be interested for their kids...
Have a great day!
Jasper
Good! My W texted me the other day about my S - I responded and ended my response with have a good day. IMO try and keep any interaction civil and nice. Show her what she is missing!
I'm day 15 and still feeling good
I can't wait to see what your post is gonna be on Day 65
will need to find some cheap or free things to do.
I knew all those movie trips were going to add up
Seriously, you can go jog, go for a walk in the park, read, I am in a similar sitch in terms of finances and I have had to get pretty creative - you can do it buddy.
Have a good day man...keep having good days.
Eric
Jasper just droppin in to see how you are doing?
Thanks for checkin on me Wild and Eric-
I am doing very well, people at work are seeing the Happy Jasper again- they even ask me what's up...I know that it's not all me...it's a combination of detaching, seeing a new and exciting life, and being inspired by someone whom has shown me a new way of looking at life...
I am very concerned that I am no longer concerned w/ what happens w/ W. I have read other people say that there is a real danger in detaching too much...I feel like I may be getting close to that line.
I mentioned this morning about W's text message last night...I did experience some anxiety over it, but spoke w/ some friends at work and was able to not feed into things by replying.
I believe the text was brilliant on her part- a ploy to spark curiosity- vague enough to mean just about anything...I view it as complete manipulation- one friend even said it was psychological warfare on W's part.
I do love her, but I do not respect her for what she'd doing, and truthfully, I don't know that I can see myself going back to anything w/ her.
It is soon, my new attitude is too young to truly guage anything on...funny that even still I am able to be rational about things...the detaching and removing myself from the drama and not acting on impulse has allowed me this opportunity.
I've been angry, sad, and crushed for about 7 months now- I never thought i'd see the other side, but it is there, even if my original goal has not been, nor ever may be realized.
I see clearly, the mistakes I made in my R/M- NEVER succomb to schedules and routine- if you do double up on communication-
For the first time GAL is effortless...
I know I'm still on the rollercoaster, b/c I'm still M...so I will not think this feeling will ever go away.
Jasper
You sound great buddy.
it's a combination of detaching, seeing a new and exciting life,
I would call this personal growth and acceptance! Kudos to you.
I am very concerned that I am no longer concerned w/ what happens w/ W
You probably feel this way because....
being inspired by someone whom has shown me a new way of looking at life..
IMO - I'm not sure if you are detaching too much. The reality is that YOU need to live YOUR life. You cannot stop living. Are you rushing into a new R? Maybe but only you know the answer to that.
You've mentioned that you still love your W - then maybe you should take the new R slowly....and I mean slowly...allow yourself the time to go thru the feeling that you will need to go thru in order to have some closure on your M. You do not want to rush into something only to have your W come back and have you second guess your new R.
so I will not think this feeling will ever go away.
Allow the feelings..buddy...fell them and GO THRU them. Do not run away and cover them with someone else.
BTW I have not seen an "I'm going to the movies" post in a while.
God Bless,
Eric
Jasper I agree with Eric . You need to live your life. If not you'll be stuck. Things will happen when they are supposed to happen.
I describe this detaching feeling and the freedom it gives as growing. You were attached to your broken marriage. That's why the first advice you get is.
Your M is dead.
You have to mourn that and you have for 7 months but you don't want to live in the coffin do you?
This growth is normal. Embrace it. Now look at it this way. You just graduated from 5th grade and your wife is in kindergarten still. You can't even relate to her anymore because of your growth.
She may catch up. she may not. But you know you don't want to go back to kindergarten.
I think you've made real progress in a short while.
Thanks guys...I learned today that W is using for sure, and she and OM2 have broken up due to her lies and her jealousy- OM kept lifeboating w/ an ex...
I am not reaching out to W...I do love her, but this has become my worst fear- what if she reaches out to me? My feelings aren't there anymore, my concern for the M is not what it was anymore, and I do have some feelings- mostly respect for the new person in my life- the respect will lead to more and I don't want to discount things...everything happens for a reason.
As for W...I have not contacted her, I have proof that I need for an intervention- I will contemplate and meditate on my motives for several days- I have a genuine care and concern for W- I do not want her to OD or have terrible things happen b/c I say nothing.
I would not do the intervention w/ the hopes of salvaging our M, I do feel like it would be the truly responsible thing to do...UGH.
I am still doing great; sadly I was further elated to learn that she and OM are on the outs...makes me feel guilty...
Anyway, I will not dwell, I am super happy, and I am taking things VERY slowly w/ my friend...I DO NOT WANT TO HURT HER, and I WANT TO BE FAIR TO MYSELF...
I am just in a diff place now and I NEVER thought it would happen!!
UGH- OM2 FB messaged me
"even though you're a complete d*uchebag, and I bit my tongue out of respect for (W's name)...you can have her back...I know she's still in love w/ you."
I wanted to reply, but I will not...OM2 is as dumb as they come- W will not come running back to the M, and I highly doubt W is still "in love" w/ me.
Like I said in the above note, I am not interested in saving this M right now...my focus is on me and my happiness.
As an aside- I would like to see one development...I would like to see W go to OM1- whom is single due to my vigilance; and have her hangers-on and MIL see that I was NEVER out of place w/ my protests...I would like for them to see W's lies and regain some credibility.
I am aware that this is self-righteous of me and ego driven...and if it doesn't happen, that's OK too.
Jasper -
D*chebag, huh? That's original.
What? Is he pissed he was dumped, maybe?
Think through your responses to this info... #1 Choice is DO NOTHING. But, if she comes sniffing around... how are you going to reply/non-reply?
JIC, you need reminding, you're doing better and better every day, and she is an adulterer.
Self-righteous and ego driven? Hell, who shouldn't be thinking about themselves right now?
HUGS, friend
Jasper
"even though you're a complete d*uchebag, and I bit my tongue out of respect for (W's name)...you can have her back...I know she's still in love w/ you."
Your right what a f**king idiot! Just goes to show you the type of trash he is. You on the contrary are a much better man!
I wanted to reply, but I will not
Good - your better than this. He does not deserve the time you would spend on a response.
W will not come running back to the M, and I highly doubt W is still "in love" w/ me.
Okay don't get pissed me about my next comment.....but HOW do you know that W is not in love w you anymore? This may be some of the anger that you feel, warrented as it is you really do not know how she feels. That is not to say that you should reconsider your position but this does sound to me like it is coming from the angry side of you. Just MHO...
I am not interested in saving this M right now...my focus is on me and my happiness.
Focusing on you and your happiness is a good thing! At the end of the day YOU are responsible for YOUR happiness. My only other comment would be if you still love your W, then make sure that you do not do things to completely close the door. Keep living your life until you can really say (with no anger) that you are done with the M and then decide if YOU want the door closed or not. Once again...not with any anger.
I would like for them to see W's lies and regain some credibility.
In time this will happen...in time....stay the course and continue to be the stand up guy that you come across as in your post.
God Bless,
Eric
Take the next reply as tongue-in-cheek...
UGH- OM2 FB messaged me
"even though you're a complete d*uchebag, and I bit my tongue out of respect for (W's name)...you can have her back...I know she's still in love w/ you."
Reply with: "How kind of you but I don't eat leftovers. Hope you enjoyed the scraps from my table."
EDIT: You don't need to send that reply... but that is the attitude you should have. She is NOT GOOD ENOUGH to even appear in your presence.
Thanks for checking in everyone...sadly I replied...I would love to lie to you all but it would do me no good.
"you sound angry...your spelling is terrible...and you can't lie for shirt."
Anyway, kinda pissed that I even bothered...should have posted here first.
I would say that I'm upset that this creep can even call me a name; but surely W has demonized me to where he feels he knows me. I did make it known to W what I had heard about him being into drugs, etc...
I GALd my butt off tonight; it's causing me to not keep as up to date on other posts as I'd like to be...
But its finally fun and enjoyed w/ no thought of W.
Eric- I'm fairly certain W is not at all in love w/ me, nor does she even love me at this point...just a feeling I have...unless the love for her that I'm losing is turning into love for me on her part...
I believe too much has happened and too much time has gone by to turn this around..
Tonight cooking dinner for my new friend...SO excited.
Have had contact w/ W... she's not doing well...drinking daily, using (though she denies). I'm sad for her- she's regressing...I know we're still young (32)...but MY GOD, she got sober when she found our friend dead...
My parents wished someone would put me through what I put them through...it has now happened.
My hands are tied...
I asked W why she's so vague w/ me...
"b/c when you're mad you tell my mom my [censored]..."
she told my family when I was out of line w/ gambling and though I cursed her, I knew it was out of love and served my best interest.
Everything I'm doing now I could have been doing w/ W...eating out more, walking the ave- nothing extravagant- WTF did she have to do this?!
No worries, just a rant, a poor me...lesson learned.
I'm thinking of filing very soon.
W made a comment, I know what I need to do...work on myself...I'm not fit for any R.
I know this is true and I question why I even care still- love for sure, but you can't love someone while they're sick like that- selfish and using, head in the sand, etc.
I do love me and my eyes are opened to good people around me...I'm done missing opportunities. I'm the only one thinking straight- it's abusive to myself to wait or focus on someone who's just not there and literally screwed over me and my family.
SOOOO SAD...
Everyone have a great evening.
GALd today by giving my first client their swim lesson, she's very young (1.5 yo)...
I am falling for my friend, she is amazing and I know she's aware of my sitch, but we will need to have a serious conversation soon...possibly tonight.
I dont know if it's too soon though. I want her to be aware that I do not give up on things, even if I do give up on my M...kinda a wierd conversation, may need some advice about it.
Angry that I broke NC- UGH. I may see W tomorrow to see my dogs...I will be able to PMA properly, I know i'm in a better place now.
Tonight I GAL by going to an art show/ dinner w/ my friend...she is becomming more than that and I am open to that. I want to be fair for all, so I am hoping to be able to close the door on the M and do so knowing I held out for a long time and that W is just unable to be who I need her to be...possibly for a while or forever...
I don' really know.
OM1GF and I have been talking, she called me earlier...OM1 got fired and W now hired him to work for her...too funny.
I'm teeling you, much like all our sitches, it could easily be made into a movie...
I'm teeling you, much like all our sitches, it could easily be made into a movie...
Or you could cash in and sell the rights to Jerry Springer. Might as well make some money out of it.
LOL...thanks for checkin in on my sitch Gno...I'm gonna catch up on your thread, its been a while and I hope you're well...
Nothin to report just in awe of the changes made...
Nothin to report just in awe of the changes made...
Nothing to report there. I decided to stop updating my sitch. Things are going OK in the Gno-hold.
Jasper
Live, love and enjoy life to the fullest - you deserve it buddy. You deserve it.
God Bless,
Eric
Great weekend, OK day at work...desperately need to better my career choices...still looking into options...my friend is holding me accountable so that is helping the fire stay stoked.
Received a call from W...missed it replied via text:
"yes?"
W "Nevermind, felt like talkin, at the gym now"
"good for you..."
Of course the LBS in me wanted to add- I meant good for you that you're at the gym...lord knows the WAS can take it the wrong way...lol.
I refrained b/c it just doesn't matter.
Anyway, keeping positive...I know that there is one final lesson to teach W...that I will go out being the responsible one- I know that it may be too soon to be in a R, but I have done alot of work on myself, seeing a therapist weekly for nearly 8 months, reading books and applying the knowledge, posting here, journaling, etc.
I am nearing the point of being ready to pursue other interests, and in order to do so w/ a free conscience, I must be willing to terminate my M...I do not want to follow W's footsteps of becoming involved w/ OP while still M'd...out of fairness to me, W, OP, and M.
I held out, I have been the beacon (or a beacon), and thus far, aside from some emotionally charged mistakes and outbursts, I have been a good H through THE WORST situations possible...
This is my final action as a good H...and one of a nice run as a good man...
SOON TO FILE...
Update-
Ever since I broke NC, its been hard to get that one day "clean" again...ugh.
I've been sucked right back in and it couldn't have happened at a worse time.
W and I exchanged some texts this morning...I had left her a message stating that seeing has how we aren't making any progress and I have taken some time to myself and been in therapy for 7 months now...that I am contemplating pursuing other options.
I stated that it was absurd that her client is a D L and W has not yet filed- and that if I were to pursue something else, I would file immediately so that I am not disrespecting the M or being adulterous.
The texts started after
W- I need to get the rest if my things
M- L can handle that from now on
W- doesnt have ti be that way
M- it was your choice, you decised to have an A and not work at all on yourself or the M. You betrayed me in every way you could, lied, and sabotaged our R.
W- dont be nasty
M- what could be more nasty than sleeping w/ another man while M?
few hours passed
M- I'm angry b/c you've done what you did while M...if you were D you can be w/ whomever you want
W- I justified what I did b/c my needs weren't met for so long. I know it wasn't the right thing to do. I'm sorry
M- you didnt need to go o/s the M to have your needs met. it would have required patience and clear communication.
I wanted to speak w/ W tonight about our options- if she agrees that she's not interested in any R w/ me, than we can go file together so there's no animosity
Never happened...W was "too tired...can't think."
Here's where it got interesting. via text
M-"sorry you had a bad day, let's plan for Sun, pref evening and somewhere we can visit w/ the dogs...let me know"
W-"I dont know what I want, I dont know what I'm doing w/ my life, how did I get here?"
M-"I have a theory but you wont like it..."
W-"?"
M-"this is what happens when you allow feelings to dictate your decisions...I know b/c it's happened to me; I'm trying to avoid the same thing..."
W- "what do you mean you doing the same thing?"
M- "get some rest"
W-" I cant think, have no time to myself, so stressed...I think I'm dying"
M-"I hope not, just relax, meditate and pray...good night."
I'm sure there will be a lot of 2x4s, I deserve them.
I'm to the point myself where I would love to bust the D, but am pretty sure I am better off w/o W all together. I def do not want to hurt my friend, and I do not think that W will ever know what she wants, even if we D...
I can't really live like that anymore- I do love her, but I think too much has taken place now. I am open to the possibility and like I said, it would be noce to only M once and see if this M could be better after all this shirt...
I'm sure W was going back and forth w/ both me and OM- I'm not that much of a dummy anymore...
Nite all
W is sending crumbs again-
"had a really bad day...looking for you to be there for me, but you're not...not surprised."
next day:
M- I've seen u 4 times in 3 months, and we barely speak...why would you expect things to be any different?"
W- I don't...I was hurting..."
It's all garbage, I know. I have all the intel and info I need to make a responsible decision...the question is do I call her out on it or not?
W is still pursuing her R w/ OM, though she assumes I don't know this...W tells me she's confused...wonder why (lol), if she really is.
Supposed to meet w/ her tomorrow and plan on setting a time for us to meet and file together...I'm no longer interested in saving this M. Unless there is an AMAZING MIRACLE that takes place- sadly I don't believe I can ever regain respect and trust w/ W.
If I am met w/ more lies tomorrow I pray I will do the right thing...I am no longer the broken man I was when she left- I no longer believe she's the only person I can be happy w/...she's just a person, and for the last 8 months, a person w/ very little redeemable qualities.
Update-
Had an awesome weekend w/ my friend, my sitch is complicated now...
Met w/ W tonight- she's experienced many emotions, she cried alot, I have barely seen her cry before.
MIL asked W why W was going to meet w/ me...W is angry b/c her mom and friends have been filling her head w/ things...they have been making her decisions for her.
Very sad, and I knew it was happening all along.
W admitted to using drugs and that OM2 had been supplying them...claims that she's been clean now a few weeks.
W wants to do Retro and MC...WTF?!
W texted me for MC's number and is going to call in the am. Apparently, when I let W know I was interested in pursuing someone, W flipped and thought,
"that's my H looking to pursue someone else...?"
I am screwed, I do not want to hurt anyone, but I am still M and feel I need to see the M through, if W is willing to seek help and MC, why wouldn't I at least try?
Be careful what you wish for, is my best advice...I heard everything I had hoped to hear tonight and I am now more conflicted than ever.
I kissed tonight rather passionately, several times, and all initiated by W. I do still love her, but she cannot waltz her way back in w/o boundaries and prerequisites.
I really cannot believe this is happening...
I really cannot believe this is happening...
I can. I told you it was coming... way back in January.
She is trying to pull you back into the cesspool of her life... and you're letting her. As soon as she has you back in line it's going to be "business as usual" for her.
You want to go to MC? Are you nuts? Get her into IC. She is using. She is addicted. Let her fix her own mess Mr "Knight in tarnished armor."
The rest is your choice.
Jasper
I gotta side with Gno on this. You have to get back on track here man. You stopped on your path when you started convo with her again and now you're going back over painful steps you've already been through...
...bumping your a$$ on the way down.
You have to completely detach yourself from this woman...you have let her drag you back in.
GNO- your clairvoyance is legendary...lol...yes you did call this.
Secretly I knew it would be as effed up as possible, so indeed- it HAD to happen.
I do like the IC advice...I will press that.
Truegritt- I know, I know- and I'm not being an A$$ when I say that...
W is in heavy pursuit- telling me she's reading all the books I've already read, making a MC appt., texting me all day, sending pics of my other two dogs, etc...
WTF?!
Now I'm the one having an A- WTF, WTF, WTF...
Spoke to my dad, he's livid! Telling me I'm asking for trouble if I let W back into my life...he feels that W's friends are all morons for taking sides so easily and NEVER once thinking W's side might be slanted.
W has been using drugs, I know- and I know it's not ovr just b/c she says she's done...it took my 30 days inpatient to have a grasp on things.
What do I do...buy time? I was ready to walk and she's giving me everything I ever wanted to hear...what if it's the truth?
I asked W why she took so long- that I was walking...
her reply:
I know and don't know...scared maybe...but I know I can't let my H walk away w/o putting forth the effort the M deserves...I would understand if u still want to walk...not what I want though.
I just spoke w/ my father- I wish he didn't know everything he knows...
I will be disowned if I welcome W back- I will have no R w/ my nephew, mother or father, if I welcome W back....WTF is that?!
Don't get me wrong- I understand completely from their perspective...I would be the same way w/ someone I care about going through went I went through...
Question- do I tell W to do what I did? to fight for me the way that I did for her? Or do I see if she doe it on her own? I think I know the answer to this question already...
Fate and sheer determination are one of the same in this matter...if she ever wanted it the way that I did, she will instinctively do what I did...
-fight like hell
-do whatever it takes
-humble herself to my parents (beg, cry, plead, etc- apologize)
Is it fair for my parents to do this to me? To blackmail me financially and emotionally?
I feel like a child...they treat me like a child...is breaking free from them in these regards what I need to do? I know my life will be more difficult...is it fair for them to weigh in on my M this way?
I know Puppy said he wished his parents didn't know everything...I'm sure most people dealing w/ A's are in the same boat.
Love is love and people are people and some of us do STUPID things...my mother wouldn't even speak to me...
She's the emotional one, the one who understands...
I'm not making any decisions...if W loves me and wants this more than anything, she will fight like hell...Why do I have to test her- it doesn't seem right!?
Jasper
My observation is you did not give yourself over to this process that focuses on YOU and your own emotional health, detaching from W IS necessary for you to become healthy. This M is toxic right now and you are full of the poison.
Your parents are drawing boundaries for themselves like YOU should be doing. They are telling you they will detach from you essentially if you put yourself back into this situation when you clearly are not healthy enough to make a decision thats right for YOU.
I know you think this OW you are with now his helping, but it is a crutch and a roadblock to your healing. It is not fair to anyone involved.
I have been following your thread and there are some very wise people on here giving you excellent advice but I think they are tired of hearing themselves talk.
Man you need to go back over this thread because all these questions your are asking you should know the answer.
YOU do KNOW you just choose not to do it.
Take a look in the mirror my friend are you seeing what you want to see?
Only you can answer that.
you guys are too wise; and I hate to think of all the people whom have packed their tents...Gno- I know you almost did.
I hate to think of OW as a crutch, but I must be realistic...I could not be where I am right now w/o her, so obv she is a crutch.
I do feel pretty detached from W b/c I can go either way...again- I realize that w/ OW in the pic, that is the only reason why.
It is not an open door for W, at least not wide open...I have a lot of boundaries for her:
-IC
-Treatment and meetings
-honesty w/ everyone in her life involved in this (family, friends, my family)
-humility and accepting responsibility to my family and the disrespect she displayed
-NC w/ OM1/OM2
Once this is done, I will consider MC and rebuilding a R...then perhaps our M.
It is a tall order- I do NOT need my parents to approve of my M- but I do require my M to be as healthy and fulfilling as possible
W/o these things there can be nothing...not even a friendship.
Again, I wish I had gotten here w/ OW, but it is what it is.
I explained to OW, that W said everything I've wanted to hear, that I am furious about it, and that there is no M until W is who she needs to be...
Yes, I know I need to be who I am supposed to be as well...OW understands this, is afraid, and also understands that I cannot base my decision around her...she is VERY healthy...also ironic to be caught in this sitch...
I TRULY appreciate EVERYONE'S input in my sitch, the support means more than anything to me...I wish I had done things PERFECTLY, but we know that does not happen...I hope no one believes they have wasted their time in aiding me...
I do want what is best for me...I do deserve better...I know I am still failing in many ways.
thank you all
-
I hate to think of all the people whom have packed their tents...Gno- I know you almost did.
FYI: I did pack my tent a while ago. You were on the right track but have returned to your ways. I stick around out of curiosity... to see just how masochistic you really are. It's sickening to see how addicted you are to the drama. You seem to revel in it. The question is how long before this drives you back to your own addictions?
Make no mistake I don't take pleasure in this. Just observe.
I TRULY appreciate EVERYONE'S input in my sitch, the support means more than anything to me...I wish I had done things PERFECTLY, but we know that does not happen...I hope no one believes they have wasted their time in aiding me...
-
Jasper
No one is expecting perfection and everyone is here showing concern for complete strangers because they care.
They care to spend their time helping others that are going through what they have already gone through and are trying to give you the benefit of their experience.
You are the only one wasting time.
You will NOT get to a better place until you LISTEN.
Jasper it is painful to watch as Gno said.
How much will/can you endure until you wake up?
I ask this w/ the utmost humility:
"Where am I supposed to be?"
I can finally sleep at night, be truly productive at work, go days w/o talking about my sitch at work- longer if not asked outright, my journaling does not mention W or my sitch, hasn't for a bit now...
I ask this b/c I am sensitive to the frustration I am sensing from replies...I am not at all offended nor unwilling to understand it, I really want to know where I am supposed to be...
I agree, the addiction to the drama HAS affected me negatively in many ways- I am not interested in going back to those days-
I understand that W is a drug- the effect on me is not what it was...I know that's like me saying I don't think drinking 2 beers is problematic for an alcoholic- so I will not dig my hole any deeper...
Where am I supposed to be?
I do not know what I want anymore- isn't that a good sign?
I'm not jumping at this opportunity like I would have months ago...I am not pursuing W, I haven't read a M book in months, I haven't looked up Piecing stories in months, I feel like I did turn a corner.
Is the frustration that I am communicating w/ W? I need to know what to do...I do have my boundaries- W knows I don't know what I want to do...how am I going wrong?
Again- utter humility here-
I am MORE interested in saving MYSELF at this time...
I have been very masochistic throughout this- something I am NOT proud of...
Where should I be?
Jasper
I gotta side with Gno on this. You have to get back on track here man. You stopped on your path when you started convo with her again and now you're going back over painful steps you've already been through...
...bumping your a$$ on the way down.
You have to completely detach yourself from this woman...you have let her drag you back in.
My post a few days ago Jasper.^^^
You have to focus on you and IMHO jumping into a relationship while it keeps you distracted does not focus on you and your growth.
If you keep getting sucked in you are going NO where.
There are much wiser folks here than I but I have been far enough to know that unless you detach completely and focus on yourself, you are headed nowhere fast.
You will repeat the same mistakes that got you here.
But it is your choice.
I give the floor over to Dr. GNO
Truegritt-
Thanks for the speedy reply...
I know that you are correct...I will take immediate action...
I have known that the feelings I've gotten from OW should be yielded from myself...that way they are genuine and pure.
I have wanted to doubt the benefit experienced from OW, but I cannot.
I know that I am still standing in my own way...anyone whom has packed their tent, please unpack b/c I need guidance and WILL LISTEN...I know that it's frustrating to be asked to do one's thinking for them, but I am in uncharted territory and need guidance...
Thanks
It is not an open door for W, at least not wide open...I have a lot of boundaries for her:
-IC
-Treatment and meetings
-honesty w/ everyone in her life involved in this (family, friends, my family)
-humility and accepting responsibility to my family and the disrespect she displayed
-NC w/ OM1/OM2
Once this is done, I will consider MC and rebuilding a R...then perhaps our M.
It is a tall order- I do NOT need my parents to approve of my M- but I do require my M to be as healthy and fulfilling as possible
W/o these things there can be nothing...not even a friendship.
Jasper, you posted the above. So excuse my q- but what is the problem? You go back to not contacting W and hanging out with OW (if you want to). Live your life and if W does those things then you said you would possibly consider R.
About your parents- that sucks. They are doing tough love it sounds like but in a punitive way- still if your W did the things you asked then it is not your parents' business if you decide you want her. But it will be a long time before she completes those tasks correct? So time will tell-if it takes 6 months- a year and she did all of that then you can see she is serious. If not, you have detached and found someone else in the process and can be "better off."
My SIL's H took 3 -4 times before he finally agreed to her list. She had a boyfriend in the meanwhile so she wasn't in a hurry to take him back. And she also did not want him back for the wrong reasons. Just sayin.'
Jasper
My friend I agree with True and Gen. Dude you need to continue on your path to healing and happiness.
Several weeks ago you posted that you were done. I thought quite honestly that you were not but only you know when you are really done.
Have you asked yourself what done really is?
Look man I'm not gonna tell you what to do. The only thing I am going to ask you is....what...rather who are you trying to save. Is it your M or you?
If the answer is YOU then what do you need to save yourself? Asnwer me this.
Are your decision now based on the impact to your friend or are they based on what YOU want to do in YOUR life.
Personally, I think you need to step back and figure that out first before you move forward with anything.
Either way you go....just make sure that you are happy and healthy.
God Bless,
Eric
Jasper
What Eric said ^^^^
I don't know if you read his thread but some amazing things are happening...
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...;gonew=1#UNREADThis is the where you can go if you want to ...It is hard...it takes courage...it takes letting your old self go ...and standing on your own.
So w/ some testing I learned that W is not at all motivated as she said she was. I call L next week, and begin the process.
w is damaged goods- I contacted MIl and let her know about the drugs- there is no fallout as of yet, MIL actually suspected and thanked me.
I am worried for W, but I cannot let it affect me anymore..I have been NC now for a few days.
I e-mailed W asking her to contemplate her motivations and if her timing was at all based on:
failed R w/ OM
living w/ MIL
depression
and learning I am ready to walk
She was belligerent in her response. After hanging out for a day I was met w/ all the same:
I don't have those feelings, I'm not happy, I'm not fit to be in a R, I need help, what if the feelings don't come back, I can't just pretend, do you want me to live like this, I don't know how to be a W, u deserve better, there's no passion, etc, etc...
There is no OM anymore, she's probably in withdrawal, we spoke of heavy things, so there was no joy or laughs (big no-no).
After her pursuit (about a week) I caved and met w/ her...my mistake!!
I do have loving feelings for W, but I only saw pain in her eyes...I cannot save her-
In a way, I love her b/c I'm supposed to, I am still attracted to her...though I no longer know her...
Naturally, she gives no definitive status- perhaps we one day start dating each other, she suggested...this after her begging for MC and going to any lengths...
I know that I effd up by making myself too available, by having no assigned value by doing so...
BUT- my goal is not the M- it's in there somewhere, but I really want to move n w/ my life.
I feel badly being ready to file when W is seeking IC, but there is no way I'm going to wait things out for her to finish IC then D me anyway...
I will not pursue- though simply seeing her and hearing her state things I've always wanted to hear does "make" me want her in my life...I do miss her as my friend, companion, and confidant- BUT these things she is not, and hasn't been for nearly 8 months.
I feel good, I am glad the "fall" was so short and not spread out over weeks or months...she is still a WAS through and through- she just needed to know I was still around, and I gave that to her.
I'm saddened that she is so miserable, I am saddened that she has so much pain.
But my life isn't so bad- it's just missing a familiar face- but at this point her's is merely a face in the crowd...
for those of you still reading, thank you...I will take some time to catch up on other's sitches.
I e-mailed W asking her to contemplate her motivations and if her timing was at all based on:
failed R w/ OM
living w/ MIL
depression
and learning I am ready to walk
She was belligerent in her response.
Why are you trying to reason with a crazy person? Whatever it is she is going through you won't be able to understand it or reason it out or anything...ANYTHING. She doesn't know why she is doing it. She is in pain and just running. You cannot stop this or do anything to help other than to help yourself. LET GO!
I do have loving feelings for W, but I only saw pain in her eyes...I cannot save her-
THIS is true
I feel good, I am glad the "fall" was so short and not spread out over weeks or months...she is still a WAS through and through- she just needed to know I was still around, and I gave that to her.
Why are you divorcing her? IMHO you have missed an opportunity here my friend I am hearing damaged goods, WAS. Drugs and you're glad the "fall" was short?
I am not talking about saving your M I'm talking about saving you. This is all stuff she did to YOU not what you have dealt with and decided for YOURSELF. So now you have to divorce her.
this "fall" will not be short my friend if you don't commit to making a better YOU. Divorce her if it's your choice not because she is damaged goods-do you think she wants to be damaged goods? She doesn't know what else to do.
If you had completed this process you would not be saying this about your W.
Jasper
Here is a link that may shed some light on what I said. It is the healing process of an LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1
Truegritt- thanks for checking in...
"The fall was short" for me, not for W...I am devastated for her- the pain she's in etc. But I did not invest emotionally in this recent event...the "notion" that W was wanting to "work" on things.
I really don't want to D her- EVER...but I feel that I can not really live in LIMBO much longer- being committed to someone whom is not at all in my life.
I know she might not always run or go for challenges or use drugs again...SO much damage has been done. I keep thinking of future family interactions where the discomfort and pain is too immense to enjoy anything.
I know I can't see the future so my thoughts are w/o real perspective.
I just don't know what else to do...I do feel badly that the "truth" is out there to her friends and family (drug use), and that W is seeking IC...I know that my seeking D at a time like this is "cruel" or "damaging"...those are not my intentions...
I feel like a hostage and like my life is passing me by...I never really gave up on W but I feel like I'm about to, not as a person but as my W.
I will always love her...
Open to suggestions, thanks for the link above...
Allright Jasper. Get your water wings on we're going into the deep end of the pool.
It doesn't matter what W has done. It is her sh!t not yours unless you let it affect you or poison you.
It wasn't done to hurt you. She is in a place you will never understand. The only thing you need to know is that it has nothing to do with you.
Now this is easier said than done
you got to feel the pain,
detach from the pain,
grab yourself by the nuts to make sure you still got em, and then STAND UP
STANDUP
For what you believe...if it's your M then do it FOR YOU
STANDUP
For your principles
For the better in "better or worse", the BETTER YOU
STANDUP
To become the better man you want to be. To be a healthy man. To NOT be one of the walking wounded.
The journey to this place is hard but in the end you will not ...
...leave your W because she is damaged goods.
You will not use language like that about her because you will not feel the pain that created those words...
It will be behind you.
Jasper?
Did you drown?
Are you still in the pool with me?
Jasper
What True said is spot f*cking on! Spot f*cking on. Look man - you really need to step back and think about what YOU really want. If it is to stand than DO IT. If it is to D then DO it. Someone gave me some advice when I was in the middle of totally srewing up my sitch. I thought I was done. I thought I had enough. I thought too much damage was done. Here is the simple piece of advice..
WHATEVER YOU DO MAKE SURE THAT YOU (stress YOU) WILL NOT HAVE ANY REGRETS.
In my sitch, that made me reconsider filing. I decided after chewing on this piece of advice that I DID NOT want to file. In my sitch, my W ended up filing. You know what...I know accept that she OWNS the D. Yep - she owns it. So what are you REALLY willing to own? Remember, time may change your mind. Remember that every sitch is temporary!
God Bless,
Eric
Jasper
Just checking in how r u?
Eric
Hey guys, thanks for checking in.
W is now on OM3...I am doing well. We had a MC session scheduled for Thurs.; I'm tempted to confront W prior to the session, but doubt I will. I also dont want to waste 125USD on a session for no good reason at all.
Still getting script and I don't knows...I do know. And IF I can't have her on board, there is no use in me limiting myself by remaining M.
W has not sought treatment for drugs- I dont care who you are, you don't just stop b/c you say you do- YOU face massive consequences and beg for mercy.
I feel well- I am over "wifes name" but not over the concept of a W, if that makes sense.
I am to meet w/ L in 2 weeks after a vacation w/ my family...I see no real reason to go to MC, except to make it perfectly clear what I'm willing to do differently in the M.
W has already denied the existence of OM3, so more lies...I cannot deal w/ anymore, as it makes me want to vomit.
Hope everyone's alright.
Man I was worried about you ...
You took off for a while. I understand sometimes you need to take a break from thinking about all this stuff.
Glad you are well.
And back.
Hello old friend! Do you have proof of OM3? What kind? If not, let it mostly drop for now, you've got nothing but time through this process anyway.
Good to see you're still committed to the process, for better or worse.
Jasper
I would not even think about OM3. I would continue to focus on your healing and growth. You are not responsible for her issues - she owns them. You own yours. It is that simple.
The feeling of wanting to vomit is normal. You are still dealing with the hurt inside of you. This is why you really need to work on healing dude. This is going to take time.
Personally, I would go to MC, if for no other reason but to show her what she is missing. Show her the new Jasper. Show her the growth that Jasper has made. Will she return? Who knows - but maybe just maybe you will inspire her to turn her life around, which at the end of the day is really the right thing to do.
You say that you do not know her...your right...just remember that she does not know her.
Always do what is right buddy and leave the rest to God.
God Bless,
Eric
Thanks all-
My family is starting o influence things a bit more...they are growing tired of nothing happening (D)...there are many financial issues that are being neglected by W...on top of that, she lies about it. There are two L's on the side lines waiting- two diff issues- one cannot start w/o the other, so that's the problem.
W goes to IC Wed, and possibly MC on Thurs. It's her first IC w/ a new C- I know first hand of her ability to lie to a C, so I see no real progress in her own IC...
No crystal ball here, but certainly W could use IC to hear what she wants to hear...as that's the pattern.
More will be revealed.
There is an OM3, but they are, you guessed it- "just friends."
Sounds SO familiar- I'm wanting off this ride for good, but have found some ways to just let it amuse me rather than rip my soul from me.
I'm doing well and have really formed my own life again- I'm applying for school again and am trying to seek out some part time work...
Recent script- "I cant go on like this, I need closure; I can't imagine going back; I just don't have those feelings for you anymore; I can't even picture myself starting to date you again; there's just nothing there anymore; too much has happened...blah, blah, blah."
Those things used to gut me, now I just shrug them off...at this point, I would have a harder time feeling the way I should about my W.
I could still muster it b/c I've not once not considered her to be anything but my W- still I don't very much like who she is as of today and the last 8 months.
I also know the expendable thing in my sitch to W is me...she has many hangers on and only W and I know the truth:
R/M was never terrible
we were great friends
we do have much in common
W's business destroyed our time together
effects of OM1/2/3
the lies told
the drugs
etc,etc
W would have to do an about face on all these fronts- and risk her "reputation" w/ her friend and family...she's already done that w/ me and my family, so why not just walk away...
Very sad that she did this the way she did...
Oh- for fun- when W was "sure" she was done a few months back- I was at my lowest, W says-
"I'm moving on- to better things...don't you want me to be happy?"
This as she proceeds to date a drug dealer...lol
none of what they say and half of what you see...
night
Jasper
I also know the expendable thing in my sitch to W is me...
This is your hurdle man. How does that make you feel? This is what comes through in your posts and is why you "fall" evrytime she tries to draw you back in. You are still consumed with this question.
If everyone (her new friends) knew the truth would you feel better?
Why give that power over to someone? All this talk we spend time on about focusing on YOU is because you are the only thing you can control. She has made choices. HER choices. They only hurt her.
If you were further in your journey you would understand this. You would stand in the middle of this pile of crap with NO self doubt because you took a path, a harder path, to push through the pain of her choices and came through the other side self reliant and confident in who YOU are.
I know these are just words right now Jasper becasue you haven't experienced this to know what I am saying.
You haven't fully detached and you won't until you can say you feel no pain at her choices.
Own up to your mistakes and try not to make them again. Look in the mirror and make changes for YOU. Have NO expectations except for YOU to be a better man.
Good morning-
I had a bit of a revelation- seeing that what I mentioned is definitely the case- How does it make me feel?
On the one hand I know it does not matter- that I am expendable to W...I am only saddened that the M did not work out. For many months I self destructed and went into a deep depression over this (the feeling of being left and worthless- I embraced much more than my share of fault).
Today this is not the case- I have owned exactly my share of fault and do not wish to act it out again in any R or M.
Jasper
As True pointed out...
You haven't fully detached and you won't until you can say you feel no pain at her choices.
Own up to your mistakes and try not to make them again.
Look in the mirror and make changes for YOU
Look at the quotes above...think about them...absorb them.
Dude - You are expendable to your W - maybe (are you sure you know what EXACTLY is going on in her head). But the real question is are you expendable to YOU. Who are you Jasper? What does Jasper really want that can be controlled by Jasper?
As I have moved down this journey a few things have become very clear to me...
1) I own my own issues and fixes - ME no one else. No one these boards, just me.
2) I decide what I do in my life - ME no one else.
3) I decide when I move forward
4) I will not live with regret over another persons actions
5) In order to "make it" - I need to go through it
6) I am responsible for my own happiness
7) I am not responsible for fixing every one else sh*t
8) Here a hard one....I may never understand the reason why some people do the things they do. Quess what....
9) This is not my issue
10) When you detach you allow yourself the space YOU need to really examine who you are. Are you co dependant? Do you feel that you are worth less than YOU really are? Are your thoughts about yourself tied to someone else opinion about you?
Jasper - I have said this to you before my friend...you have handeled yourself with a class and dignity that is commendable. Now take back your power my friend and keep on the journey this is.....BECOMING THE BEST PERSON YOU CAN.
God Bless,
Eric
Jasper, wow this sounds exactly like my sitch. Down to the stuff your w has said to you.
Hats off to you man, it is tough to see someone you love do this to themselves and the fact that if you would have just been given the chance you would have moved mountains for her.
Keep your head up and I'll pray for you.
UGH- W and I went back and forth
I failed miserably-
Left W a nasty message- stating she let OM1 eff up our M, then her friends...that she was dead to me...
W-My truth is I want a D, has nothing to do w/ friends...when can I get my stuff...
M-u owe 6k in mortgage debt and I want one of the dogs
W- lol...actually u r responsible for half of my debt...haha
M-funny I am the one w/ the money and you aren't
W-u wouldnt know that what a great husband u r...u mean your parents have the money?
M-that bought u your business? Proof it wasnt based on love...
W-sorry u couldn't meet my need, there are plenty of men that would take care of me financially.
M- proof thats all u were interested in...
Sorry for what I said, I'm angry my W gave up on her M- u deserve to be happy
W- so let her be happy, end of story
M- we both know u wouldnt know happiness if it were staring you in the face
M-keep running, I'll love u no matter where you stop...serve me so I can love someone else
Ugh
I know I didn't do well..W had IC today, I knew she'd cancel MC tomorrow- I left her veil, and all our wedding things at the barn, she's better at throwing things away than I am-
She claims she'll file tomorrow- I hope she does so it's on her and I can move on w/ a clear conscience- I feel I can but dont want to be the one to file first.
All 2x4's welcome- I'm angry not sad
We never fought before this shirt...
Jasper
No 2x4's they don't work man. Go back and read everything that has already been posted
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That is where your answer is my friend you just don't want to listen.
Do you feel like sh!t?
You are in contol of the sh!tmaking machine because it is YOU.
Do you feel like sh!t?
You are in contol of the sh!tmaking machine because it is YOU.
That is just what I needed to hear right now too. It is my sh!t that is making me feel so sh!tty today. Now I will dispose of it with the poopascoop to where it belongs.
Agreed- sadly I decided to drink a bit last night- haven't done it in years and it didn't quite take.
I read a passage for the day from "The Language of Letting Go"
I won't quote it but it speaks of property lines- what's yours (actions, bx, thoughts, feelings, beliefs, etc) and what's mine...your property is not mine and mine is not yours...it should not affect me what another person does or chooses.
I get it now. I have had my ups and downs. I have allowed myself to be brought nothing but pain by maintaining any R w/ W. And I'm sure I've caused her the same as a result.
I can't "make" W get honest about things- and I can't question her when she says her "truth" is she no longer L's me or wants to be M.
Our 6 yr. R was never this way- it was actually very peaceful.
I am the cause of the problems in this "R" right now- there is no R-
When W came back and admitted everything, I was not ready for it- I was still clinging to the idea of "W"...
Anyway- I don't even want to relive this anymore- the more I talk about the sitch the closer I get to it.
Jasper
I’m not going to go with the 2x4 but I wanted to help with True suggestion; that you reread what has been posted to you.
Here are just a few…
I would continue to focus on your healing and growth. You are not responsible for her issues - she owns them. You own yours. It is that simple.
Several weeks ago you posted that you were done. I thought quite honestly that you were not but only you know when you are really done.
Have you asked yourself what done really is?
My observation is you did not give yourself over to this process that focuses on YOU and your own emotional health, detaching from W IS necessary for you to become healthy. This M is toxic right now and you are full of the poison.
You were on the right track but have returned to your ways. I stick around out of curiosity
Live, love and enjoy life to the fullest - you deserve it buddy. You deserve it.
Now…on to your back and forth exchange with W....
IMO – this happened because you have not let go. You are not done yet. Period. I know that you recently met a friend, which I’m sure help take your mind off some of the pain. The problem with this IMO…is that you still are not done – deep down inside you still had some hope that YOU may have been able to fix this…that maybe just maybe she would come out of this.
The reality is that she may come out of it...but will you be ready? That my friend is the question you must answer.
You see once you HEAL and grow from this..once you let her deal with her own shirt....you will finally realize that YOU control this. You control you. Whatever she does will not matter. Cause you will realize the Man that you are.
Heal...heal my friend...get over this crap. Take as long as you need to heal..do it for YOU. Cry, do what you need to but dude - let go. Let go.
I am the cause of the problems in this "R" right now- there is no R-
This quote is so true...you no longer have an R. Now accept it, and go find Jasper. Don't worry about who is going to file first, last - it doesn't make a difference. What is the most important thing buddy is YOU! YOU my friend are the most important thing in this process.
As True said...
You are in contol of the sh!tmaking machine because it is YOU.
It's all about YOU. You are the machine, you are your own healer, you are the f**king man!
God Bless,
Eric
Well said Eric!
Pearls of wisdom Jasper^^^^
Will YOU hear?
Thanks Eric- hope all's well w/ you- I'll catch up on things later tonight.
The drinking was not a good idea on my part- there's a reason I haven't done it in years.
Looking back- I see the value of detachment, of GAL, of everything...
Everyone of my friends have told me to go into "self preservation mode"- I had no idea what this is or how to get there at the time.
These sitches, like life is a process- they are not hammered out in weeks, months, or years- the horizon has to be pushed very far back and there can be no real goal other than getting there as the best person you can be.
I do understand this and I also realize that "action" is required...
looking forward to a peaceful evening
Jasper
The drinking was not a good idea on my part- there's a reason I haven't done it in years.
Sometime we need to have one of those nights
The key is just to make sure we keep our emotions in check. Don't sweat it - just make sure YOU learn from it.
Looking back- I see the value of detachment, of GAL, of everything.
That's good - now look FORWARD.
Everyone of my friends have told me to go into "self preservation mode"
I would agree but remember self p mode does not mean be an A**
These sitches, like life is a process- they are not hammered out in weeks, months, or years- the horizon has to be pushed very far back
As I mentioned earlier...the hard part of this process is getting to the point where YOU realize that YOU control the when. You control it! You decide when you have had enough. Fear, loneliness, insecurities - all of this cr*p will hold you back but how you deal with them is really in YOU.
and there can be no real goal other than getting there as the best person you can be.
Yep! Your W may realize...she may not...either way YOU will be better.
Hope you had a peaceful evening.
God Bless,
Eric
Thanks Eric-
things have calmed down quite a bit.
Sadly- W and I have had communication. W invited me for a walk on the beach last night- she clearly was going out after- I did not ask where or w/ whom.
While walking- there was little or no R talk, but I could see that W was not really into the conversations- the sad part is we both know so much about one another, so conversation is pretty dismal.
I did enjoy myself w/ her...there was a lot of talk about her business, which is not going well, my financial issues, and her going to a wedding next month...she's very concerned about what people there will have to say- knowing the sitch.
W has determined that she is this new person now- her identity is established through her business- horses and all things horses.
I know there's more to it than that, I also know the only reason we are where we are is that W was so unhappy that she allowed OM1 to be a constraint on our R/M.
OM1, still works w/ her and it's funny- now they truly are "just friends"- I don't snoop anymore- but the last time I did was when W was w/ OM2-
There are huge differences in the frequency of calls to and from OM1 during that time.
W still lies to herself about this- the fact that OM1 was an impediment to our M's progress.
I know the truth, so it doesn't really matter.
Our time together was brief. I feel like the issue w/ W is that she takes on the personality of the person she is around- she has difficulty being consistent w/ emotions or "energy".
I don't know what this means, but it doesn't really phase me at this point.
Not much else going on- trying to figure out school and other job options (part time- I'm getting killed having all the bills alone).
So W has been texting me since last night-
- she's confused, been reading M books again, etc
-sending dog pics again, etc
-W came by my work and gave me my wedding band back
-W in heavy pursuit again
I'm not feeding into it again...she can do this for a while- I'm spending time w/ my family next week at the beach and will figure out what I'm willing to deal w/ from here on out.
No GAL due to rain, but gonna cook a mean dinner, work out and watch a flick at home
Jasper
- she's confused, been reading M books again, etc
Sounds to me like she is trying to figure out why she feels the way that she does.
-sending dog pics again, etc
Could be lonely...could be that she may be realizing what she is missing. Could be more confusion.
-W came by my work and gave me my wedding band back
Sound manipulative if you ask me. Almost like she expected you to respond with a "I love you give us a shot".
All of the above leads to...
-W in heavy pursuit again
I'm not feeding into it again
This is good. Don't feed into - don't give her back your control. Do what YOU need to do for YOU. Keep working on YOU. Keep striving to be the best you can. Having said this, you can still be nice and respectful. Remember it is her loss. Reflect on your changes - keep working on them and do not get pulled back into her issues. Remember Jasper - you have the keys to the door. You determine when and if the door remains open. YOU my friend control this.
Whatever you do...make it for YOU. Want to stand - your choice. Do it for you!
God Bless,
Eric
Jasper...
One other thing...
I'm getting killed having all the bills alone
It may seem like the bills never end...you need to realize that everything is temporary. You will some day pay these off. Spend your energy trying to figure this out instead of trying to figure out W. You will look back on this time and realize how much you have grown because of it.
Keep your head up.
Eric
Update-
Met w/ W last night for some darts and wings...spent about 1.5 hours w/ her...there was some reminiscing of the R prior to M...
W made a comment that really struck a cord w/ me:
Since I left, my life really hasn't changed that much- it's just that I don't see you or speak to you...
That didn't hurt me like I thought it would...I wanted to reply to her that that is only b/c we are still M and there have been no real consequences yet.
I said nothing- and later it dawned on me what W wasn't considering: she drinks every night, goes out to clubs, believes she's single, entered into other R's, etc, etc.
Her life has changed a lot...
Anyway- when the conversation turned to R talk we decided to call it a night.
W asked "how can I want to go back to something where I felt so alone- hoping it can be different?"
I simply stated- look at your part in things and see what could have been changed...there are obv no promises or expectations...
Anyway- I'm a little sad; even though I feel like W is feeding me script to keep me in the shadows, I know that I'm not willing to wait things out anymore- I use the word "wait" even though that's not really what I'm doing...
There's a lot more than me involved in the sitch and things are going to be set in motion...
I am upset (frustrated) that W believes this can be prolonged further...sadly it cannot be...
I'm ready to start a new journey w/o ghosts from my past...
Jasper
Met w/ W last night for some darts and wings...spent about 1.5 hours w/ her...
just wondering but if you are dark why are you spending time with her?
Her life has changed a lot...
okay so her life has changed. What about YOURS. How has your life changed. What does Jasper see when he looks in the mirror? How much work has Jasper done on Jasper? I'm interested to see your answer.
Anyway- when the conversation turned to R talk we decided to call it a night.
Thats a good thing...R convo never really come out right unless we the LBS are really ready.
look at your part in things and see what could have been changed
What did you hope to accomplish with this statement? Did you think she would say "yeah I f*cked up - your right I am sorry. Come on dude you know better than that. You need to realize that nothing you say to her will change anything. YOUR actions my friend are the only that will speak to her and that is if she is ready to see them and only if she is coming out of her criis. THis statement tells me that you still feel like somethign you say will mke her "wake up". IMO - it will not happen.
Jasper - ask your self this question...what does Jasper really want. What can Jasper really accept? Who is Jasper? WHo is the Jasper that wakes up in th morning and brushes his teeth, shave, etc. What does this guy really what? What can this guy control? Dude you only control yourself. You only control how you deal with this. You my friend are in charge.
God Bless,
Eric
Hi Jasper,
I was reading your advice to OIN and saw that you said that you took wife back too easily. Could you elaborate? In my stitch husband and OW got into a huge fight and that is how things ended. Now husband and I have been trying to reconcile but I often wonder if I should have not taken him back at his first try. We are still separated and I plan to remain that way until husband continues to get the proper treatment by seeing a family therapist and dealing with his issues and our relationship issues but why do you feel you took your wife back too quickly?
What did you do when she first said she wanted to work on the marriage? I am trying to learn from others that have attempted or are reconciling.
Jasper
W asked "how can I want to go back to something where I felt so alone- hoping it can be different?"
Everytime you open your mouth you confirm to her that you are the same peroson she left and the sitch has not changed. You know why?
Because you haven't. You have been so focused on how much W is f@cking up you haven't worked on you. You keep listening to the noise she (and you) fill your head with.
Let her go on her journey and you go on yours. You won't care what she's up to. You'll be busy working on YOU.
Did your interaction with W make you feel good?
Did it make her feel good?
You're trying to live your old M and you will live your old M with her or anybody else until you understand the only part of the equation you can fix is YOU.
Jasper you are stuck.
Jasper
Grit said it a little more directly than i would but I agree...
you haven't worked on you.
Think about his quotes...really think about them. Don't beat the sh*t out of yourself...but reflect.
God Bless,
Eric
Jasper -
Just checking in how r u?
Eric
Doing well, thanks for asking.
Took several weeks to myself, enjoyed time w/ the family.
Spoke w/ L- recommended that we seek mediation. W is back and forth about it...looking for everything she's entitled to- fortunately not much.
It's a lose - lose like all D's...pretty much waiting for her to file and do mediation at the court's request, as W is not looking to do so voluntarily.
Feeling very good and VERY detached...w/ is VERY angry, I can't fully understand nor do I wish to...it's not about her.
Best
OK, been a while and I feel badly not looking in on other sitches.
PLEASE- I NEED HELP. I filed last week, and things are moving forward...I NEVER wanted the D.
Very much believe that W is BPD. We have had NC for several weeks...she texted me asking to come by for some of her things.
I asked that she send me an e-mail list stating everything she needed. She refused.
I asked that she bring a few things I knew she had.
She showed up at 7am, bringing nothing I asked for.
I helped her pack...we R talked...W was angry that I never sent her flowers over the last 10 months...last time I did, I caught her at OM'1's house the same night.
I asked her what she wants me to do...she said "I don't know."
We met tonight- she's still very angry...I gave her as much closure as I could...she could say nothing. And I mean nothing.
I told her I would go forward w/ D.
IS IT ACCEPTABLE for me to message her mom and some friends, including her brother- that I love W very much and although trying to avoid D at all costs, I have no choice but to file?
They all know where I stand, but is it an OK thing to do...or is it completely inappropriate?
These people were at our wedding...
Please help...
Jasper
IMO NO.
Look man you have got to drop the rope.
There is no other way to save yourself.
I mean it man.
Take care of YOU.
This is not healthy.
She is not your responsibility anymore.
She has to be accountable for her own actions and decisions.
that I love W very much and although trying to avoid D at all costs, I have no choice but to file?
Why do you want to do this?
So you don't look like the bad guy?
Come on man.
If you don't want this then don't file.
Why do you feel guilty?
What questions do you have left?
thanks for checking in...
I have to file (have filed) b/c W has not met her financial obligations and it's beginning to affect my family and their credit.
I would hold out if I could, but it's no use anymore. I have moved on in many ways, distanced myself, taking classes, focusing better, actually happy again...but I do still have a deep love for my W...
I will always have that, and I realize she is no longer that person.
I did not contact her friends and family...perhaps the first true impulse control I've exhibited.
I am fearful that the legal matters will invoke some type of response...I am not relying on it, but I fear it will.
If that happens, I need to curb my love for W b/c it will be too late.
Anyway...we have not spoken in a while and I am not looking to speak w/ her. Seeing her Tues was enough to still cause me great pain, so I know that means something and I am not interested in more pain.
It's all pointless to me, but obv I see things much more clearly now. I put up w/ far more than most would, w/ and open heart, understanding, and unconditional love.
I would still stop it all if I could, but ...